<!--quoteo(post=1657372:date=Oct 23 2007, 05:24 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Oct 23 2007, 05:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did anyone here get a medic to unleesh uber on them while playing enemy spy? Because the medic that did it to me was quite annoyed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya, I pretended to be a heavy and got him to uber me, then I backstabbed 2 guys on his team, and my team still failed to keep the group from taking our CP, so I rage quit the server :/
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2007
Interesting views, some I agree with, some I don't.
First, by far & away the best two disguises, especially to not get shot (imo) are the Scout and the Demoman. Third on the list is the Pyro, but he seems to attract a lot of enemy fire due to his 'noticeable' nature. You should <b>never</b> disguise as a Spy, it's hard to pull off, and just encourages other players to shoot you. The only time I do it is if there's nowhere to decloak out of LOS, change to Spy and decloak, and hope it's a little less conspicious.
Incidentally, I deeply disagree with Redford's first point about when to be a Spy. I far & away get my best kills against an offensive team. There's less engineers to deal with (two sentry guns in LOS of each other, how I hate that) and their players tend to be moving a lot, and always in one nicely joinable direction. A simple circle around and you're in amongst a group of people who will pay you no attention whatsoever.
My own points: Incidentally, in that video he's also very slow to redisguise himself. If you're fast, you can be back in disguise quick enough after the stab (you can start the process almost before the actual backstab) that people turning around at the noise don't even see you.
Secondly, you should actually strive to avoid the backstab animation. It's slower, slashes can count as a backstab anyway, and if you're trying to kill an Engineer and sap the sentry faster than it can shoot you, it will get you killed. If you slash as you're running into them, rather than after you've reached them, you'll do the Slash animation, but get a backstab kill. This can let you weaponswitch to the Sapper and down the turret after the Engineer is dead and works I'd say about 80% of the time.
Notably, the Sentries method of rotation appears to be quite variable. Sometimes they seem to spin instantaneously and gun you down, but more often than not, this works.
For the statwhoring....
1. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Shockeh/stats/TF2" target="_blank">Yours Truly</a> 2. Wait until Sonic posts. He loves me as Spy.
that's some pretty good points (and pretty good stats) =p I definitely noticed the thing about the backstab animation but I can't consistently avoid it... but it IS a really slow animation. it's kinda more satisfying though =p but there have definitely been times I've been killed mid-backstab-animation and I was like OMG that was a guaranteed kill, if only I had just done the slash animation...
one thing about the longer backstab animation is that I'm pretty sure once it starts, it's an instakill even if it hits someone's face. I think that's why people have been annoyed at getting 'backstabbed' in the front - if someone spins around after you've started a backstab animation, and it still connects with their front, it's still a backstab. of course if you had done the slash animation and hit their back, it would have been an instakill anyway, and faster, so the point is kinda moot, but it's interesting to note. there are probably situations where, if you had split-second reflexes, you could start the BS animation on someone who's looking away, and then turn and stab someone who's looking right at you and instakill them...
edit: you can compare your stats to someone else's on steam =p
I wish mine were a little better, but I often play on a locked server filled with a lot of skilled people, so that hurts my score sometimes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> people who know how to use the demoman and his sticky bombs to their full potential are so brutal...
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1657469:date=Oct 24 2007, 01:12 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Oct 24 2007, 01:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Wait until Sonic posts. He loves me as Spy.
- Shockwave<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Shockwave is the most annoying spy. ever. and i'm the only one paying attention enough to actually see him..then run around in circles trying to hit the ###### only for him to stab me in the bloody back. >=(
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
edited October 2007
Compare your stats to mine, and weep! (or I'll do some weeping, which ever works the best) <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/abrah/stats/TF2" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/abrah/stats/TF2/compare</a>
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
I am a decent spy, but I tend to panic too often, and that is my downfall. I have gotten a bit better at avoiding spy checks.
just for the stat whorage: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Thansal/stats/TF2/compare" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/Thansal/stats/TF2/compare</a>
Yah, I have gotten good as Engie...
My one note on Spy:
DON'T LOOK AT ENEMIES!
Most of us naturally track our opponents, doing that is a DEAD give away, 'specialy as it leads to circle strafing them. You KNOW you can walk through your teammates and thus don't have to worry about where they are (much), act like it.
I see enemy spies doing it all the time and it gets them dead fast.
I almost never get back stabbed, but I am constantly spy checking. I have also noticed that people tend to NOT see the flicker of a spy brushing one of your team mates (when invis), dono why, but I am almost always the 1 person who sees it...
Gotta disagree with Shockie on the Scout tip. A good Scout will always take the shortest, quickest route by doublejumping over obstacles. Spies don't do this as they can't doublejump, so they are really obvious to someone who has played as a Scout and understand them well. The only time it can work is with a bunch of people capturing a control point, and then it just takes a quick man count to see there's one less person capping than there should be, so someone is a Spy.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1657495:date=Oct 24 2007, 11:31 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Oct 24 2007, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta disagree with Shockie on the Scout tip. A good Scout will always take the shortest, quickest route by doublejumping over obstacles. Spies don't do this as they can't doublejump, so they are really obvious to someone who has played as a Scout and understand them well. The only time it can work is with a bunch of people capturing a control point, and then it just takes a quick man count to see there's one less person capping than there should be, so someone is a Spy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 2 less people.
Also, most scouts will double jump constantly, even if there is no reason. Scout is generally the worst class to disguise as (In my mind).
honestly, I still think that soldier is the best. Your speed is dropped to match, soldiers do not constantly fire, and there are always a few of them.
Obviously, it isn't perfect, but no disguise is, and yo should always tweak to what fits the situation.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1657500:date=Oct 24 2007, 11:59 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Oct 24 2007, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only problem is, that you usually see more soldiers than demos, because soldier is easier to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->And there we have it.
yah, if they have more then 1 demo, then I like picking demo, but these days you generally only see 1, and at least 3 soldiers.
If we're comparing e-penises, then <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Align/stats/TF2/compare" target="_blank">behold my true power, AND DESPAAAAIR</a> I've already given my opinion on disguises, so yeah.
Though if you are going to ######, I have been playing a lot more then you folks so your ratio is probably higher. (doesn't show todays 7 man domination as soldier, bah)
If you get a medic to follow you as a fake heavy, just keep running straight into your own base when he activates ubercharge (stand and wait if it's not 100% yet), he wont realize the mistake until it's too late, also shout "thanks!" and "activate ubercharge!" manually as auto voices doesn't work with spies undercover. If you simply want to kill the medic, don't try to backstab, it will most likely blow your cover before you can get it in and the medic is faster, just take him inside somewhere or similar then turn around quickly with the revolver and shoot him 3-4 times and he's dead. Usually they wont react until after the 2nd shot.
The video pointed out that backstabs work directly from above, if anyone missed that, especially good on dustbowl maps.
I think my biggest weakness is not checking spies who uses teleports, the blue/red shine gives such a "really not hostile" feeling.
Side note on medic, when you have screwed up a ubercharge, just click "lastinv" (q) like a madman, this will give you 50% chance of not getting hit while never running out of ubercharge on yourself, either that or really really slowly.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2007
In some cases (if the enemy team has more snipers then 1) you could go sniper and sit in the back. they tend to not notice snipers, since they don't fire much. Also using taunts seems to calm down people shooting at you (emotes, not the default g button since that don't work, to bad really)
Snipers are a rare case scenario though, since standing next to another sniper tends to make them wary. But it does give you a nice calm overview of their defense...
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Sometimes I intentially take damage (ie: fall damage) and go spy-pyro. Then move in from the enemies back to run around the corner towards my friendlies. Only to run back in panic asking for a medic, because I can't hit them with me firestick. This will make it more believable for their medics to heal you, since they saw you run around the corner (taking damage it seems) and come running back for a panic heal. This will then give you more trust in their team and you can wander around a little waiting for the medic to go "I am charged" and make with the stabiestab. Be sure to thank the medic though by using the "Positive" response when they heal ya. Integration into their mids and minds is key and this will work once or twice or it will work a lot more if they haven't noticed their pyro is down/gone/you</span> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Followup. DON'T for petes sake go and ask for a medic when you are NOT damaged! Or keep asking for: medic, medic, medic, medic, medic. I will shoot you personally if anyone else isn't aiming for ya <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1657523:date=Oct 24 2007, 02:18 PM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Oct 24 2007, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it really seems to me that calling out medic has become a way of telling the world "I'm a spy!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Many/most medics hate spies so much for stealing their healing/uber that they'll saw anyone who comes up to them before healing them, just in case... though that makes it even more satisfying if you ARE a spy, and they saw you once or twice but not enough to kill you, and then they heal you...
sure, but most of the time I have a kind of sense about it. I guess it has to do with where they're looking most of the time (not for the opposing team) and the fact that they don't move around as much even when near combat.
spies who stare greedily at your teammates are really amusing. you can just see their mouths watering as they stare at a beautiful exposed back... til they feel that shovel in the back of the head that I deal them.
The ease of being a spy comes alot from the fact that new players suck, and it's fairly easy to do things that pretend to be a new player. "why are you running back to base?" "I'm lost <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />"
The trick seems to be to do enough suspicious things to allow you to work quickly and efficiently as a spy, without giving away the fact that you're not just a nub.
<!--quoteo(post=1657469:date=Oct 24 2007, 07:12 AM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Oct 24 2007, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting views, some I agree with, some I don't.
First, by far & away the best two disguises, especially to not get shot (imo) are the Scout and the Demoman. Third on the list is the Pyro, but he seems to attract a lot of enemy fire due to his 'noticeable' nature. You should <b>never</b> disguise as a Spy, it's hard to pull off, and just encourages other players to shoot you. The only time I do it is if there's nowhere to decloak out of LOS, change to Spy and decloak, and hope it's a little less conspicious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Shockie but Scout is a class I almost never disguise as. Whenever I see a Scout that isn't jumping around and running like a spaz, he's a spy for certain. There's just no way to fake the Scout.
Demoman I definitely agree with. I've also had luck with the Sniper especially when infiltrating. Engineer usually gets you past the front line, but other Engineers are generally quite cautious.
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
<!--quoteo(post=1657637:date=Oct 25 2007, 03:40 AM:name=RuBy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RuBy @ Oct 25 2007, 03:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657637"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry Shockie but Scout is a class I almost never disguise as. Whenever I see a Scout that isn't jumping around and running like a spaz, he's a spy for certain. There's just no way to fake the Scout.
Demoman I definitely agree with. I've also had luck with the Sniper especially when infiltrating. Engineer usually gets you past the front line, but other Engineers are generally quite cautious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scout works fine indoors (e.g. Second point in Well) It is generally crowded enough with little distance from the front lines to warrant a scout not always on the offensive double jumping everywhere. Pretend you are wary of enemy (in your case friendly) fire by running towards your team and quickly backpedaling. This also justifies you not moving much to show off your decreased speed. Also taunt a lot and be annoying in general to fit in, if you must.
For disguises, I like pyro best. Real pyros retreat all the time because they don't have the range to fight anything at a distance and have a good reason to be in corners (making it easy to pop out of somewhere without raising a tonne of suspicion).
Second to pyro I like heavy. Massive speed loss yes... but you have an awesome excuse to stick with the pack, you have an awesome excuse to nearly never shoot, you have an awesome excuse to have medics heal you constantly, and you have an awesome excuse to fall behind your friendlies.
Demo is a great class to get into the intermediary space between teams, since they are fast, and often lone wolf defending some spot, but they rarely retreat from a spot they are defending and they don't usually buddy up or attract attention from medics. It can make it hard to believably get near allies/turret locations as demo. Pyro's have to reload every 2 seconds so they have a good reason to be running back to an ammo box/dispenser. Demo's frigging constantly shoot, they stick mines all over the place all the time, they usually shoot even when they are standing around with no enemies near by. If it's just a matter of using a class that has a good excuse not to shoot for long periods of time the demo is useless. A pyro quite likely will round a corner, see enemies, and retreat without taking a shot, simply because they know they have limited ammo and very little range, this never happens with demos.
<!--quoteo(post=1657651:date=Oct 25 2007, 12:26 PM:name=Private_Coleman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Oct 25 2007, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scout works fine indoors (e.g. Second point in Well) It is generally crowded enough with little distance from the front lines to warrant a scout not always on the offensive double jumping everywhere. Pretend you are wary of enemy (in your case friendly) fire by running towards your team and quickly backpedaling. This also justifies you not moving much to show off your decreased speed. Also taunt a lot and be annoying in general to fit in, if you must.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My feet barely touch the ground when I'm Scouting in Well CP2. I've lost count of how many Heavies I've gumba'd in there.
<!--quoteo(post=1657652:date=Oct 25 2007, 01:34 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Oct 25 2007, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Second to pyro I like heavy. Massive speed loss yes... but you have an awesome excuse to stick with the pack, you have an awesome excuse to nearly never shoot, you have an awesome excuse to have medics heal you constantly, and you have an awesome excuse to fall behind your friendlies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm sorry, what? Heavies shoot all the time, except when they're spinning up.
<!--quoteo(post=1657664:date=Oct 25 2007, 09:35 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Oct 25 2007, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657664"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry, what? Heavies shoot all the time, except when they're spinning up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A good heavy only shoots when he has a good shot. spinning up and shooting makes you move really slow, and the sound tells the enemy you're there and exactly where you are. it's usually not even worth shooting unless the enemy is at close to mid range. I'm not really advocating the heavy spy disguise, just playing the devil's advocate and saying they don't necessarily shoot all the time <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> not really any more than most classes, anyway, and possibly less, due to the slowdown and ammo consumption.
Conversely Heavies usualyl get a lot of kills, and they get paired up with medics. This means astute people who pay attention will know who their Heavies are, and Medics will DEFINITELY know who their Heavy is, so if you disguise as a Heavy called 'Barry' you've got a good chance of getting shot.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1657692:date=Oct 25 2007, 12:45 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Oct 25 2007, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657692"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A good heavy only shoots when he has a good shot. spinning up and shooting makes you move really slow, and the sound tells the enemy you're there and exactly where you are. it's usually not even worth shooting unless the enemy is at close to mid range. I'm not really advocating the heavy spy disguise, just playing the devil's advocate and saying they don't necessarily shoot all the time <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> not really any more than most classes, anyway, and possibly less, due to the slowdown and ammo consumption.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hvys should ALWAYS be in one of 2 states: moving, or spun up.
So disguising as a Hvy means that you must ALWAYS be moving, and always in a logical direction. A hvy running INTO your base on 2Fort is gona get spy checked hard. A Hvy not moving to the front line is gona get spy checked. A Hvy running down the ramps in 2fort right AFTER the flag was taken? Not gona get spy checked <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
I got bonked by Toothy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> got my revenge later on though!
<!--quoteo(post=1657705:date=Oct 25 2007, 12:49 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Oct 25 2007, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hvys should ALWAYS be in one of 2 states: moving, or spun up.
So disguising as a Hvy means that you must ALWAYS be moving, and always in a logical direction. A hvy running INTO your base on 2Fort is gona get spy checked hard. A Hvy not moving to the front line is gona get spy checked. A Hvy running down the ramps in 2fort right AFTER the flag was taken? Not gona get spy checked <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ugg, no. Heavy is a useless class solo, he'll get sniped out by everything. Heavy is completely dependant on having good teammates near by to bate people into his fire and cause chaos around him to keep him alive. Furthermore, heavy should never be shooting when he does not have a shot, and only spun up when he's ready to shoot. If you rambo with the heavy you'll just get taken down by the first medic/anything combo you run into. Especially since chances are it will be a medic heavy.
As a spy you're not going to emulate the class you're playing like a rambo, period. Some players will play as rambo's with every class, but the majority will attempt some semblance of teamwork, especially as the heavy class. As a spy it's your job to take advantage of that.
<!--quoteo(post=1657651:date=Oct 25 2007, 06:26 AM:name=Private_Coleman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Oct 25 2007, 06:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also taunt a lot and be annoying in general to fit in, if you must.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The major flaw in this plan is that you can't taunt when in disguise. You can however use voice macros, which tends to throw people off. The spy is apparently an expert impressionist as well as a freaking ninja.
Comments
Ya, I pretended to be a heavy and got him to uber me, then I backstabbed 2 guys on his team, and my team still failed to keep the group from taking our CP, so I rage quit the server :/
First, by far & away the best two disguises, especially to not get shot (imo) are the Scout and the Demoman. Third on the list is the Pyro, but he seems to attract a lot of enemy fire due to his 'noticeable' nature. You should <b>never</b> disguise as a Spy, it's hard to pull off, and just encourages other players to shoot you. The only time I do it is if there's nowhere to decloak out of LOS, change to Spy and decloak, and hope it's a little less conspicious.
Incidentally, I deeply disagree with Redford's first point about when to be a Spy. I far & away get my best kills against an offensive team. There's less engineers to deal with (two sentry guns in LOS of each other, how I hate that) and their players tend to be moving a lot, and always in one nicely joinable direction. A simple circle around and you're in amongst a group of people who will pay you no attention whatsoever.
My own points:
Incidentally, in that video he's also very slow to redisguise himself. If you're fast, you can be back in disguise quick enough after the stab (you can start the process almost before the actual backstab) that people turning around at the noise don't even see you.
Secondly, you should actually strive to avoid the backstab animation. It's slower, slashes can count as a backstab anyway, and if you're trying to kill an Engineer and sap the sentry faster than it can shoot you, it will get you killed. If you slash as you're running into them, rather than after you've reached them, you'll do the Slash animation, but get a backstab kill. This can let you weaponswitch to the Sapper and down the turret after the Engineer is dead and works I'd say about 80% of the time.
Notably, the Sentries method of rotation appears to be quite variable. Sometimes they seem to spin instantaneously and gun you down, but more often than not, this works.
For the statwhoring....
1. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Shockeh/stats/TF2" target="_blank">Yours Truly</a>
2. Wait until Sonic posts. He loves me as Spy.
- Shockwave
one thing about the longer backstab animation is that I'm pretty sure once it starts, it's an instakill even if it hits someone's face. I think that's why people have been annoyed at getting 'backstabbed' in the front - if someone spins around after you've started a backstab animation, and it still connects with their front, it's still a backstab. of course if you had done the slash animation and hit their back, it would have been an instakill anyway, and faster, so the point is kinda moot, but it's interesting to note. there are probably situations where, if you had split-second reflexes, you could start the BS animation on someone who's looking away, and then turn and stab someone who's looking right at you and instakill them...
edit: you can compare your stats to someone else's on steam =p
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/DiscoZombie/stats/TF2/compare" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/DiscoZombie/stats/TF2/compare</a>
I wish mine were a little better, but I often play on a locked server filled with a lot of skilled people, so that hurts my score sometimes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> people who know how to use the demoman and his sticky bombs to their full potential are so brutal...
- Shockwave<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Shockwave is the most annoying spy. ever. and i'm the only one paying attention enough to actually see him..then run around in circles trying to hit the ###### only for him to stab me in the bloody back. >=(
(or I'll do some weeping, which ever works the best)
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/abrah/stats/TF2" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/abrah/stats/TF2/compare</a>
(login first)
just for the stat whorage:
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Thansal/stats/TF2/compare" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/Thansal/stats/TF2/compare</a>
Yah, I have gotten good as Engie...
My one note on Spy:
DON'T LOOK AT ENEMIES!
Most of us naturally track our opponents, doing that is a DEAD give away, 'specialy as it leads to circle strafing them. You KNOW you can walk through your teammates and thus don't have to worry about where they are (much), act like it.
I see enemy spies doing it all the time and it gets them dead fast.
I almost never get back stabbed, but I am constantly spy checking. I have also noticed that people tend to NOT see the flicker of a spy brushing one of your team mates (when invis), dono why, but I am almost always the 1 person who sees it...
2 less people.
Also, most scouts will double jump constantly, even if there is no reason. Scout is generally the worst class to disguise as (In my mind).
honestly, I still think that soldier is the best. Your speed is dropped to match, soldiers do not constantly fire, and there are always a few of them.
Obviously, it isn't perfect, but no disguise is, and yo should always tweak to what fits the situation.
Also, most scouts will double jump constantly, even if there is no reason. Scout is generally the worst class to disguise as (In my mind).
honestly, I still think that soldier is the best. Your speed is dropped to match, soldiers do not constantly fire, and there are always a few of them.
Obviously, it isn't perfect, but no disguise is, and yo should always tweak to what fits the situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Demoman is, hands down, the best disguise:
-Easy to pick (4,4)
-Demos are played offy and deffy
-Demos need to retreat more often than soldiers
-They dont fire constantly
-Rather fast
The only problem is, that you usually see more soldiers than demos, because soldier is easier to play.
yah, if they have more then 1 demo, then I like picking demo, but these days you generally only see 1, and at least 3 soldiers.
I've already given my opinion on disguises, so yeah.
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Svenpa/stats/TF2/compare" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/Svenpa/stats/TF2/compare</a>
Though if you are going to ######, I have been playing a lot more then you folks so your ratio is probably higher. (doesn't show todays 7 man domination as soldier, bah)
If you get a medic to follow you as a fake heavy, just keep running straight into your own base when he activates ubercharge (stand and wait if it's not 100% yet), he wont realize the mistake until it's too late, also shout "thanks!" and "activate ubercharge!" manually as auto voices doesn't work with spies undercover. If you simply want to kill the medic, don't try to backstab, it will most likely blow your cover before you can get it in and the medic is faster, just take him inside somewhere or similar then turn around quickly with the revolver and shoot him 3-4 times and he's dead. Usually they wont react until after the 2nd shot.
The video pointed out that backstabs work directly from above, if anyone missed that, especially good on dustbowl maps.
I think my biggest weakness is not checking spies who uses teleports, the blue/red shine gives such a "really not hostile" feeling.
Side note on medic, when you have screwed up a ubercharge, just click "lastinv" (q) like a madman, this will give you 50% chance of not getting hit while never running out of ubercharge on yourself, either that or really really slowly.
Snipers are a rare case scenario though, since standing next to another sniper tends to make them wary. But it does give you a nice calm overview of their defense...
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Sometimes I intentially take damage (ie: fall damage) and go spy-pyro. Then move in from the enemies back to run around the corner towards my friendlies. Only to run back in panic asking for a medic, because I can't hit them with me firestick. This will make it more believable for their medics to heal you, since they saw you run around the corner (taking damage it seems) and come running back for a panic heal. This will then give you more trust in their team and you can wander around a little waiting for the medic to go "I am charged" and make with the stabiestab. Be sure to thank the medic though by using the "Positive" response when they heal ya. Integration into their mids and minds is key and this will work once or twice or it will work a lot more if they haven't noticed their pyro is down/gone/you</span> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Followup. DON'T for petes sake go and ask for a medic when you are NOT damaged! Or keep asking for: medic, medic, medic, medic, medic. I will shoot you personally if anyone else isn't aiming for ya <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Many/most medics hate spies so much for stealing their healing/uber that they'll saw anyone who comes up to them before healing them, just in case... though that makes it even more satisfying if you ARE a spy, and they saw you once or twice but not enough to kill you, and then they heal you...
The trick seems to be to do enough suspicious things to allow you to work quickly and efficiently as a spy, without giving away the fact that you're not just a nub.
First, by far & away the best two disguises, especially to not get shot (imo) are the Scout and the Demoman. Third on the list is the Pyro, but he seems to attract a lot of enemy fire due to his 'noticeable' nature. You should <b>never</b> disguise as a Spy, it's hard to pull off, and just encourages other players to shoot you. The only time I do it is if there's nowhere to decloak out of LOS, change to Spy and decloak, and hope it's a little less conspicious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Shockie but Scout is a class I almost never disguise as. Whenever I see a Scout that isn't jumping around and running like a spaz, he's a spy for certain. There's just no way to fake the Scout.
Demoman I definitely agree with. I've also had luck with the Sniper especially when infiltrating. Engineer usually gets you past the front line, but other Engineers are generally quite cautious.
Demoman I definitely agree with. I've also had luck with the Sniper especially when infiltrating. Engineer usually gets you past the front line, but other Engineers are generally quite cautious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scout works fine indoors (e.g. Second point in Well) It is generally crowded enough with little distance from the front lines to warrant a scout not always on the offensive double jumping everywhere. Pretend you are wary of enemy (in your case friendly) fire by running towards your team and quickly backpedaling. This also justifies you not moving much to show off your decreased speed. Also taunt a lot and be annoying in general to fit in, if you must.
Second to pyro I like heavy. Massive speed loss yes... but you have an awesome excuse to stick with the pack, you have an awesome excuse to nearly never shoot, you have an awesome excuse to have medics heal you constantly, and you have an awesome excuse to fall behind your friendlies.
Demo is a great class to get into the intermediary space between teams, since they are fast, and often lone wolf defending some spot, but they rarely retreat from a spot they are defending and they don't usually buddy up or attract attention from medics. It can make it hard to believably get near allies/turret locations as demo. Pyro's have to reload every 2 seconds so they have a good reason to be running back to an ammo box/dispenser. Demo's frigging constantly shoot, they stick mines all over the place all the time, they usually shoot even when they are standing around with no enemies near by. If it's just a matter of using a class that has a good excuse not to shoot for long periods of time the demo is useless. A pyro quite likely will round a corner, see enemies, and retreat without taking a shot, simply because they know they have limited ammo and very little range, this never happens with demos.
The "This guy is Totally not a spy!" spray is now available:
<a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6886951&postcount=115" target="_blank">here!</a>
Pic:
<img src="http://rpgtk.com/subtractive/notaspy.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
A good heavy only shoots when he has a good shot. spinning up and shooting makes you move really slow, and the sound tells the enemy you're there and exactly where you are. it's usually not even worth shooting unless the enemy is at close to mid range. I'm not really advocating the heavy spy disguise, just playing the devil's advocate and saying they don't necessarily shoot all the time <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> not really any more than most classes, anyway, and possibly less, due to the slowdown and ammo consumption.
Hvys should ALWAYS be in one of 2 states: moving, or spun up.
So disguising as a Hvy means that you must ALWAYS be moving, and always in a logical direction.
A hvy running INTO your base on 2Fort is gona get spy checked hard.
A Hvy not moving to the front line is gona get spy checked.
A Hvy running down the ramps in 2fort right AFTER the flag was taken? Not gona get spy checked <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
So disguising as a Hvy means that you must ALWAYS be moving, and always in a logical direction.
A hvy running INTO your base on 2Fort is gona get spy checked hard.
A Hvy not moving to the front line is gona get spy checked.
A Hvy running down the ramps in 2fort right AFTER the flag was taken? Not gona get spy checked <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ugg, no. Heavy is a useless class solo, he'll get sniped out by everything. Heavy is completely dependant on having good teammates near by to bate people into his fire and cause chaos around him to keep him alive. Furthermore, heavy should never be shooting when he does not have a shot, and only spun up when he's ready to shoot. If you rambo with the heavy you'll just get taken down by the first medic/anything combo you run into. Especially since chances are it will be a medic heavy.
As a spy you're not going to emulate the class you're playing like a rambo, period. Some players will play as rambo's with every class, but the majority will attempt some semblance of teamwork, especially as the heavy class. As a spy it's your job to take advantage of that.
The major flaw in this plan is that you can't taunt when in disguise. You can however use voice macros, which tends to throw people off. The spy is apparently an expert impressionist as well as a freaking ninja.