Am I the only one who hates bloom

OttoDestruct

So yeah topic pretty much says it all. Am I the only person who looks at games coming out and vomits and how ridiculously shiny random crap is - especially stuff that has no business being shiny, glowing, sparkling, or whatever? Please tell me I'm not the only one.

Caboose

You mean like people's skin in Doom 3?

BlackMage

but ... the shinies!

Swiftspear

In most games I hate it. It fits in some area's of some games though. It makes everything look misty or covered in dust or something, which can sometimes be desirable.

Private_Coleman

hate bloom too unless it is well done

Nil_IQ

So does Halo 3 count as "well done" or "excessive bloom". As far as i'm concerned the jury's still out on that one, whatever my lord and master (<a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation" target="_blank">Yahzee</a>) might say.

Also, everything in Doom 3 was made of either leather or metal.

Faskalia

Bloom is like a drug. Great when used and applied in small doses, but when you overuse it...

<img src="http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/070119.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Align

Eh. It's just graphics. Unless it outright makes things hard to see, fine with me.

Quaunaut

I think Halo 3 has the best implementation of bloom/hdr yet. Just enough to make it look right, not enough to piss you off. And the HDR really works well.

Crispy

Halo 3 looks like ###### close up, but from afar the effect is rather stunning.

Quaunaut

<!--quoteo(post=1654645:date=Oct 8 2007, 03:43 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Oct 8 2007, 03:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Halo 3 looks like ###### close up, but from afar the effect is rather stunning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've yet to play a game(other than a certain MP beta I'm playing...) that doesn't look like crap close up. Half-Life 2 does a decent job, but the texture resolution is nothing short of too-damn-low. And at least for me, texture resolution is nearly everything.

PerfectionsFlaw

I thought this was a thread about....

<img src="http://www.poster.net/bloom-orlando/bloom-orlando-photo-orlando-bloom-6206802.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

I hate him too.

Bloo

Ever played Oblivion on full res and with bloom instead of HDR?

So SHINEY! everything that CAN shine shines the rocks, the grass, the characters, the skin of the characters, the houses etc etc. Oblivion is the biggest sinner in the shining apocalypse that is bloom...

Insane

<img src="http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1025/orlandobloomjg2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Svenpa

I've been thinking about this recently and compared some real stuff to games. I saw some comments on Crysis when they showed it early and the usual praises and haters, they particularly pointed out how the wood on a old house shined too brightly. I think the devs are more right then wrong here however, for example, my porch has a black matte color on it, nothing you would think as shiny, but it still shines incredibly bright when the light comes from the right direction like it does in games with bloom. I imagine metal would be even brighter, think carpark at noon, we just find it annoying in games because our monitors allows us to look straight at it without our eyes adjusting which makes it look "wrong".

Align

Which brings us to the old videogame design dilemma of:
Do you implement what IS realistic, or what is PERCEIVED as realistic?

TychoCelchuuu

I like bloom. Not when it's overdone or done badly, of course, but I don't like <i>anything</i> that isn't done right. Bloom isn't any different. Team Fortress 2, for example, does bloom amazingly well (it's HDR but I'm thinking you mean the same thing since they both look pretty similar).

Monkfish

did they change the HDR in TF2 so it isn't the "increase in brighness then decrease" rubbish like in HL2 and dod

SkulkBait

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which brings us to the old videogame design dilemma of:
Do you implement what IS realistic, or what is PERCEIVED as realistic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To which the answer is: whichever makes it more fun within the context of the game.

lolfighter

Took me a little to write this, but I had to stop laughing after Insane's post, first.

Bloom's great, if used well. All things in moderation, as the saying goes. Guild Wars is a good example of bloom done both right and wrong. Some areas have a little too much of it, others are fine. Bloom in and of itself isn't evil.

Bloom is like salt. Almost any food can benefit from a little salt, but you have to be careful about the dosage or you're going to end up feeling ill.

Depot

<!--quoteo(post=1654653:date=Oct 8 2007, 08:18 AM:name=PerfectionsFlaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PerfectionsFlaw @ Oct 8 2007, 08:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought this was a thread about....

<img src="http://www.poster.net/bloom-orlando/bloom-orlando-photo-orlando-bloom-6206802.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

I hate him too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So did I.

And so do I. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />

Mantrid

<!--quoteo(post=1654674:date=Oct 8 2007, 08:20 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Oct 8 2007, 08:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which brings us to the old videogame design dilemma of:
Do you implement what IS realistic, or what is PERCEIVED as realistic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Neither. You implement whatever looks the most appealing. I've noticed that many photographs look far more visually appealing than actually being there would look. Whether or not it's a good thing that reality seems dull and drab compared to video games and film is debatable.

Align

I knew I should've added "If you're going for realism"...

TychoCelchuuu

The answer, then, is whichever you don't end up doing, because no matter what, it'll piss someone off. People are incredibly sure that they know what real life looks like, and have no trouble placing their judgment above that of a game they're playing, even if the game is actually right. IMHO I'd still go for whatever looks better, because a big part of "realism" isn't just how realistic it is but how realistic it's perceived. The only reason I wouldn't go with that criteria all the way, though, is that if you want to adhere to realism at all you might as well make the effort even when people might not believe you're doing it right.

Swiftspear

<!--quoteo(post=1654684:date=Oct 8 2007, 10:40 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Oct 8 2007, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bloom is like salt. Almost any food can benefit from a little salt, but you have to be careful about the dosage or you're going to end up feeling ill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, I disagree. IRL it's rare to have an environment where bloom is expected. Games seem to put some bloom into EVERYTHING though. The real world just doesn't bloom that much. In the correct circumstance, at long distances, in high dust/mist enviroments, looking into light sources directly (reflected light doesn't bloom any where near as much as it does in games unless it's reflecting off something mirrored), it's fine. However, bloom should be on the things that should bloom, it shouldn't be on the things that shouldn't.

TychoCelchuuu

<!--quoteo(post=1654758:date=Oct 8 2007, 05:17 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Oct 8 2007, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See, I disagree. IRL it's rare to have an environment where bloom is expected. Games seem to put some bloom into EVERYTHING though. The real world just doesn't bloom that much. In the correct circumstance, at long distances, in high dust/mist enviroments, looking into light sources directly (reflected light doesn't bloom any where near as much as it does in games unless it's reflecting off something mirrored) Bloom should be on the things that should bloom, it shouldn't be on the things that shouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Keep in mind that bloom in games is often to approximate HDR, which is itself designed to approximate the wide range of lighting we see in real life that can't be accurately reproduced on a computer screen. When you say bloom isn't universal, you're probably talking about <i>Oblivion</i> levels of bloom or something similar. Many if not most real life environments have a small "bloom" component to them. It's not on the Brothers in Arms/Oblivion/whatever level, though. It's closer to Team Fortress 2.

Haze

<!--quoteo(post=1654681:date=Oct 8 2007, 11:36 AM:name=Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sonic @ Oct 8 2007, 11:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->did they change the HDR in TF2 so it isn't the "increase in brighness then decrease" rubbish like in HL2 and dod<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well, that's actually how it's supposed to be. It simulates your eyes adjusting. They're adjusted for the dark, then you step into the light and it's a little overly bright until they adjust again. In my opinion the HDR in HL2 is very well done.

Merkaba

I think the HDR in TF2 works just the same, but it much less pronounced than in other Source games; probably so it doesn't interefere with the gameplay, and also probably because anything more might comprimise the art style.

The other end of the spectrum is the HDR in CS:S's cs_militia, which is over the top.

Back on topic though, I like bloom so long as it is done subtley. NS2's environments, for instance, will look gorgeous with the proper level of bloom.

Monkfish

<!--quoteo(post=1654762:date=Oct 8 2007, 10:43 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Oct 8 2007, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654762"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, that's actually how it's supposed to be. It simulates your eyes adjusting. They're adjusted for the dark, then you step into the light and it's a little overly bright until they adjust again. In my opinion the HDR in HL2 is very well done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I know about the adjusting part, I mean I loaded up a dod level and just stood in the light street and watched as a wall just got lighter then darker over and over again like the sun was having a godamn space rave.

sgt.waffles

I like things to look more gritty. it also takes away detail from things because of how ###### shiny they are!

Gwahir

<!--quoteo(post=1654775:date=Oct 8 2007, 08:18 PM:name=Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sonic @ Oct 8 2007, 08:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know about the adjusting part, I mean I loaded up a dod level and just stood in the light street and watched as a wall just got lighter then darker over and over again like the sun was having a godamn space rave.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://frecklescassie.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/sun_glasses_hw.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

In my opinion bloom is a good thing, they just need to make it less noticeable.