NS2TR & Mapping ?

BodyGuard

<div class="IPBDescription">Just wondering if ...</div>Hi,
I'm just asking, if Natural Selection 2 will be a standalone game, and if NS2TR will be published to allow people ( including developers and unknown mappers ) to start some mapping for the game, with wich program will people map ?

I mean, NS2 isn't an HL² mod, so SDK cannot be used...

Any answer?

WatchMaker

They have purchased rights to the Source Engine in order to develop their game, so I would assume Valve Hammer would still be used.

BodyGuard

Okay great <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> My favourite mapping program btw <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Thank you

Flowerpod

<!--quoteo(post=1645838:date=Aug 27 2007, 08:22 PM:name=ZeroFate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZeroFate @ Aug 27 2007, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They have purchased rights to the Source Engine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm so relieved. I've been practicing on SDK, making maps for my current favorite mod, Spazms. I'm so glad I won't have to learn another program.

hookeyed

Yeah, I'd say Hammer. Best mapping program out there, imo.

WatchMaker

It's about half-and-half with the new UnrealEd if you ask me. Both are pretty nice to use, but both also, in turn, have their hair pulling moments.

Droggog

I'm assuming most .bsp compatible mapping apps, like quark, will be able to do the job as well.

Flayra

If you know how to use the Source tools, you should be good to go. We're planning on releasing our own tools as well but it will essentially be like modding for Source.

Sike

<!--quoteo(post=1646626:date=Aug 31 2007, 04:25 AM:name=ZeroFate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZeroFate @ Aug 31 2007, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's about half-and-half with the new UnrealEd if you ask me. Both are pretty nice to use, but both also, in turn, have their hair pulling moments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I know what you mean. Being able to see what your lighting will look like in UnrealEd, for example, owns Hammer. Steam is great for content distribution and protecting against piracy, but when you want to do some rapid fire tests, it's a pain. It's far better to be able to see what the changes you make will look like without leaving the level editor and going through the login/load process each time. On the other hand, I think UnrealEd makes some things more complicated than they need to be.

I actually prefer Hammer 3.5 over Hammer 4.1 for a couple things. For example, I have an old habit of selecting something and clicking on the camera tool to keep it highlighted while using another tool like vertex manipulation on something else, but you can't do that in Hammer 4.1. I think it was viewed as a bug, but it was actually useful. Also, I often edit map files with notepad, but haven't tried that yet with vmfs.

A control config would be nice too. Adjusting to different camera controls and hot keys when jumping from one application to another is akin to playing a game with a control config that someone else uses.

[Deleted User]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->know what you mean. Being able to see what your lighting will look like in UnrealEd, for example, owns Hammer<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

With the sdk update thats coming with ep2, hammer will lighting preview in the editor <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Crispy

<!--quoteo(post=1646800:date=Sep 1 2007, 04:29 AM:name=Sike)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sike @ Sep 1 2007, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually prefer Hammer 3.5 over Hammer 4.1 for a couple things. For example, I have an old habit of selecting something and clicking on the camera tool to keep it highlighted while using another tool like vertex manipulation on something else, but you can't do that in Hammer 4.1. I think it was viewed as a bug, but it was actually useful. Also, I often edit map files with notepad, but haven't tried that yet with vmfs.

A control config would be nice too. Adjusting to different camera controls and hot keys when jumping from one application to another is akin to playing a game with a control config that someone else uses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Space + click on the camera view window puts you into camera mode (you can let go of space and it stays in camera). So you can select something, camera round to a different view point, hit vertex manip, camera round again if you want to and then go straight back to vertex manip automatically (without ever having to manually change to the camera tool).

P.S. That's great news about the in-editor lighting. Can I ask where you got it from?

Sike

<!--quoteo(post=1646862:date=Sep 1 2007, 03:02 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Sep 1 2007, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Space + click on the camera view window puts you into camera mode (you can let go of space and it stays in camera). So you can select something, camera round to a different view point, hit vertex manip, camera round again if you want to and then go straight back to vertex manip automatically (without ever having to manually change to the camera tool).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's cool for panning around an object that you're using VM on, but that's not what I mean. With 3.5, the camera tool allows you to highlight one brush while using VM on another like so:

<img src="http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z164/_Sike_/RspeedsnDesign/vm3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Notice how the brush on the left side of the top viewport still has the red doted lines from camera mode after I clicked on the brush next to it with VM. In the green circle, you can see how this makes it easy to pick out what you want to align verts with. In 4.1, you cannot do this, but perhaps my biggest complaint about 4.1 is this:

<a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594844" target="_blank">Source SDK not launching, no content servers avaliable</a>

It's ridiculous that I can run 3d studio max - a more sophisticated and expensive piece of software - whenever I want, but if there are any problems with steam or my internet connection, I cannot use the level editor. Ironically, to get some work done with the source engine, I had to go back to hammer 3.5.

AnimeLOL

I can really sympathize with the Hammer 4.1 woes. I really liked the stability and ease of use in 3.5, and I have constant problems with 4.1 crashing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />

Radix

<!--quoteo(post=1648150:date=Sep 8 2007, 01:54 PM:name=Sike)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sike @ Sep 8 2007, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's ridiculous that I can run 3d studio max - a more sophisticated and expensive piece of software - whenever I want, but if there are any problems with steam or my internet connection, I cannot use the level editor. Ironically, to get some work done with the source engine, I had to go back to hammer 3.5.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Is offline mode feasible for you?

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1648183:date=Sep 8 2007, 11:33 PM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Sep 8 2007, 11:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is offline mode feasible for you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not 100% reliable. I have a problem sometimes with <i>offline</i> mode, meaning I still have to login on steam (WITHOUT AN INTERNET CONNECTION) for offline mode to become available.

Kind of negates the <i>offline</i> part in offline mode, I guess... Good thing my internet connection is very reliable though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

schkorpio

why not just leave steam open and logged in? or atleast tick the save password box <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

nosebleed

<!--quoteo(post=1649953:date=Sep 17 2007, 02:15 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Sep 17 2007, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why not just leave steam open and logged in? or atleast tick the save password box <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It checks to see if you are connected when trying to start the SDK.

Thaldarin

<!--quoteo(post=1649986:date=Sep 17 2007, 08:56 AM:name=nosebleed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nosebleed @ Sep 17 2007, 08:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649986"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It checks to see if you are connected when trying to start the SDK.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If it does you just click cancel, SDK loads for me like that.

Thaldarin

<!--quoteo(post=1646775:date=Sep 1 2007, 02:05 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Sep 1 2007, 02:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you know how to use the Source tools, you should be good to go. We're planning on releasing our own tools as well but it will essentially be like modding for Source.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Please tell me you're developing a level editor, from scratch. Hammer is a pain in the arse. A heavily modified Radiant would also be acceptable of course <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

KungFuDiscoMonkey

I doubt they're building their own level editor.

tigersmith

Hammer is great, always was..I really think its one of the best map editors. If you know how to use it, you can make maps look and play the way you want them to.

KungFuDiscoMonkey

There are still plenty of annoying quirks with it but generally it seems like hammer is decent.

Mendasp

I feel right at home with Hammer, I guess it's because it's the tool I've used the most. Let's see how good the Ep2 SDK update is (we're finally getting Hammer lighting preview!)

KungFuDiscoMonkey

The lighting preview should be a big help

PhilipK

<!--quoteo(post=1650062:date=Sep 17 2007, 06:28 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 17 2007, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The lighting preview should be a big help<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yeah I can see that beeing a very useful thing for the leveldesigners. Shame it wasn't included a bit earlier just, but better late than never <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Hopefully they will have extended the phong reflection to work with world stuff too somehow.

ozbirdboy

<!--quoteo(post=1650062:date=Sep 18 2007, 04:28 AM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 18 2007, 04:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The lighting preview should be a big help<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh wait you serious, first i heard of this. It will help designing so much!! whens this expected to be out? same time as ep2 or abit after?

KungFuDiscoMonkey

Sometime after Ep2's release I think.

schkorpio

you could probably still use radient to do most of the solids and basic lighting then go into hammer and texture it, but thats still silly.

hammer 4.1 isn't too bad - if you use all of the shortcuts and dupications and automatic texturing features its quite fast.

vartaxe

<!--quoteo(post=1648150:date=Sep 8 2007, 07:54 PM:name=Sike)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sike @ Sep 8 2007, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's cool for panning around an object that you're using VM on, but that's not what I mean. With 3.5, the camera tool allows you to highlight one brush while using VM on another like so:

<img src="http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z164/_Sike_/RspeedsnDesign/vm3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Notice how the brush on the left side of the top viewport still has the red doted lines from camera mode after I clicked on the brush next to it with VM. In the green circle, you can see how this makes it easy to pick out what you want to align verts with. In 4.1, you cannot do this, but perhaps my biggest complaint about 4.1 is this:

<a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594844" target="_blank">Source SDK not launching, no content servers avaliable</a>

It's ridiculous that I can run 3d studio max - a more sophisticated and expensive piece of software - whenever I want, but if there are any problems with steam or my internet connection, I cannot use the level editor. Ironically, to get some work done with the source engine, I had to go back to hammer 3.5.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

wtf is this tool -> <img src="http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/42/vm3ap2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

my hammer dont has that! -> <img src="http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4994/hammerut7.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

SamR

making levels with a high end 3d app like 3d studio max generally produces the best environments imo. the source engine, though pretty nifty with physics, is pretty demanding with some of it's effects (it's recommended you don't even use water in a multiplayer map), and still quite boxy to map with despite the addition of subdivision geometry.

halo 3 for instance is going to have some incredible sculpted landscapes, i assume they are using 3d max or another similar 3d program.

i do love hammer though, and feel that source is best for interior environments as opposed to exterior... which is perfect for NS 2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

SamR

<!--quoteo(post=1648150:date=Sep 8 2007, 06:54 PM:name=Sike)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sike @ Sep 8 2007, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's ridiculous that I can run 3d studio max - a more sophisticated and expensive piece of software - whenever I want, but if there are any problems with steam or my internet connection, I cannot use the level editor. Ironically, to get some work done with the source engine, I had to go back to hammer 3.5.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

can't you just update your steam and hammer, then set it up to work offline only? that's what i do. then no updates will screw it up. my hammer works fine, except for sometimes when i run the map, when i am finished in hl2, hammer has closed itself down, and i get this 'hammer closed unexpectedly' crap.