3 Red Rings to Ruin them All!
puzl
The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Your 360 experience</div>Read a summary of 360 harware issues <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems</a>
So, I was down in my hometown yesterday enjoying a day off from work when the postman arrived with my brother's repaired 360. he got the red ring of death 9 weeks ago, before Microsoft admitted the problem exists, and before they extended the warranty to 3 years. He had just bought Shadowrun and was thoroughly enjoying it (despite what the reviews say).
Anyway, to those of you who don't know ( and didn't read the above link ), the 360 has a poor mechanical design and because of this the motherboard is subjected to warping due to the heat from the CPU and GPU. This problem exists in most of the 360s on the stores today, as MS refused to recall the defective product and instead extended the warranty on the device ( taking a 1.1G$ hit on it ).
So, I dropped the 360 down to my brother's appartment and after kicking off the bioshock download we played a bit of the new bomberman XBLA release, which is so very very awesome. The classic prince of persia release is also really nice, it looks very good but feels incredibly faithful to the original game.
Next stop, Shadowrun. He inserted the DVD into his 360 and during game-load, the system popped up an error "please Insert Disk Into An Xbox 360 Console". So he tried again, and it didn't help. He tried every DVD he owns and none of them would load.
So he has to send his 360 back again, for further repair. Last time they replaced the motherboard, and the fact sheet says it was "verified by two hours of automated and manual testing", I guess Mr. Manual Testing didn't need to use the dvd drive, or perhaps it was damaged in transit.
So, assuming it'll take another 4-5 weeks to repair, he'll have gone a total of 15 weeks without his console. By the time he gets it back, Shadowrun will be fairly stale and he'll probably miss the grand halo3 launch and subsequent frenzy of halo goodness.
Anyone else having nightmare issues like this? Remember, every 360 is susceptible to this, and it is unlikely to be fundamentally solved until the next 360 redesign happens.
So, I was down in my hometown yesterday enjoying a day off from work when the postman arrived with my brother's repaired 360. he got the red ring of death 9 weeks ago, before Microsoft admitted the problem exists, and before they extended the warranty to 3 years. He had just bought Shadowrun and was thoroughly enjoying it (despite what the reviews say).
Anyway, to those of you who don't know ( and didn't read the above link ), the 360 has a poor mechanical design and because of this the motherboard is subjected to warping due to the heat from the CPU and GPU. This problem exists in most of the 360s on the stores today, as MS refused to recall the defective product and instead extended the warranty on the device ( taking a 1.1G$ hit on it ).
So, I dropped the 360 down to my brother's appartment and after kicking off the bioshock download we played a bit of the new bomberman XBLA release, which is so very very awesome. The classic prince of persia release is also really nice, it looks very good but feels incredibly faithful to the original game.
Next stop, Shadowrun. He inserted the DVD into his 360 and during game-load, the system popped up an error "please Insert Disk Into An Xbox 360 Console". So he tried again, and it didn't help. He tried every DVD he owns and none of them would load.
So he has to send his 360 back again, for further repair. Last time they replaced the motherboard, and the fact sheet says it was "verified by two hours of automated and manual testing", I guess Mr. Manual Testing didn't need to use the dvd drive, or perhaps it was damaged in transit.
So, assuming it'll take another 4-5 weeks to repair, he'll have gone a total of 15 weeks without his console. By the time he gets it back, Shadowrun will be fairly stale and he'll probably miss the grand halo3 launch and subsequent frenzy of halo goodness.
Anyone else having nightmare issues like this? Remember, every 360 is susceptible to this, and it is unlikely to be fundamentally solved until the next 360 redesign happens.
Comments
I've run the ###### out of mine, never had a single problem.
*Shrug*
Main reason I'm not getting one until they fix all the hardware issues.
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I hate to say it, but it probably isn't happening. I mean, Microsoft can totally throw money at this til they're blue in the face, and people are still gonna buy them by the dozens.
Microsoft absolutely have to fix this issue properly or they can kiss their plans for controlling the home media market goodbye. I'd say that once they have cleared their backlog of units they will produce more durable units. The loss they have written off against this problem covers all units manufactured to date and to the end of this year, which is shocking IMO, and hopefully leaves them open to a class action. They need to compensate games with more than just 1 months gold membership for this problem.
Anyway, I've used the 360 a lot, and it's a great platform and all, but I think redford has it pegged. Keep away from it until things improve, I'd say until at least spring next year.
And quaunat, I'm glad you haven't had a problem, but your unit is defective, so just hope it doesn't manifest. My brother bought his on release day, and it took over 15 months for anything to go wrong with it. A mate of his had his unit 9 weeks when it failed.
Anyway, the 3 year warranty does make it all a bit more palatable, but what happens to you if your unit fails on the 37th month? Why should you have to pay for that repair when the problem was caused by Microsoft alone.
Anyway, he has already decided that once he has had time to enjoy halo3 and Mass Effect, he's selling his 360 on ebay for buttons and putting it towards his PS3 fund, probably next January.
Really too bad for Microsoft, isn't there a way to mod the xbox360 to get rid of the heat problems?
"First the full circle will fall, then the Wii-lling, then at last the station of delay"
I just bought a VGA adapter (actually an all in one fan kit iwth USB hub, and every video out known to man), and I hooked it up, jacked up the resolution, and was looking forward to seeing it in action.
It worked like a charm. I was about to play some games to see the difference, when I was prompted with an XBOX update. It downloaded, restarted, and froze up... After reseting it, the lovely red rings. It seems if your HD is full, when it tries to perform an update, it can't flash properly, and freezes midstream. So my system was bricked by the update. Launch console, no problems whatsoever!
Some recent 360s that have hit the market have a built in HDMI output on them and some observers have speculated that this is a move by MS to reduce the need to clutter up the heat exhaust are of the case with peripheral clutter.
Well, the PS3 has a reported failure rate of 0.2%, which is much much lower than the typical 3% for complex consumer electronics. And I don't see anything wrong with people now knowing about HD features. It just demonstrates that most people still buy consoles to play games, without having to understand anything about the technologies involved.
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Right, but one of the big selling points is that a console is far more simple than a PC, and it lets you get to gaming without bothering with a bunch of crap. So many people don't know they need to use HDTV hookups that they're not getting the most out of their consoles; that's just as bad as someone not getting the most out of their PC. The console doesn't have an advantage because it's more powerful, it has an advantage because it can bring the power to people who can't swap out a 3d card or update their drivers. If lots of people can't figure out how to harness a console's power just like they can't figure out how to harness a PC's power, then the consoles lose one of their main selling points: simplicity.
If the console is simple enough for people to get out of it what they think they paid for, then the console has done its job. I.e., people who aren't aware of HD features don't miss them. And people who buy a PS3 or a 360, plug it into their telly, and have fun playing Madden '08 or PGR certainly get a simple experience.
The question is, are these people over spending? Would they have been just as well served sticking with their PS2 or XBOX. Even if they fong up their cabling and simply connect their HD console to their AV input, they'll still get a better, equally simple, game experience.
No, your logic is flawed.
If the console is simple enough for people to get out of it what they think they paid for, then the console has done its job. I.e., people who aren't aware of HD features don't miss them. And people who buy a PS3 or a 360, plug it into their telly, and have fun playing Madden '08 or PGR certainly get a simple experience.
The question is, are these people over spending? Would they have been just as well served sticking with their PS2 or XBOX. Even if they fong up their cabling and simply connect their HD console to their AV input, they'll still get a better, equally simple, game experience.
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They're most definitely paying for high definition graphics, they're just not getting them. If they wanted to play their games at a gimped resolution at lower detail, they could just as easily play them on the PC where they'd have to dial down the settings because they don't know how to install a new 3d card.
Let's face it - most people buy the latest consoles so they can A) play the latest games, which stop getting made for the older consoles, and B) for bragging rights, so they can say they have the coolest, most powerful new system even if they're not getting the most out of it. Expensive consoles are status symbols for disposable income, just like expensive cars. A $10k cheapo car can have air conditioning and a functional sound system, but people will pay $90k for a car even if it's only provides, like, 5% better quality of life while driving than the $10k car. I guess coolness factor is priceless.
From a hardware standpoint, if you claimed the 360 was the least reliable console ever released, I bet most people would say "Yep." Main reason I'm not getting one until they fix all the hardware issues.
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It only barely trumps the early PS2's.
but even a low-end computer is more expensive than a PS3, especially for the average person who buys a Dell.
Let's face it - most people buy the latest consoles so they can A) play the latest games, which stop getting made for the older consoles, and B) for bragging rights, so they can say they have the coolest, most powerful new system even if they're not getting the most out of it. Expensive consoles are status symbols for disposable income, just like expensive cars. A $10k cheapo car can have air conditioning and a functional sound system, but people will pay $90k for a car even if it's only provides, like, 5% better quality of life while driving than the $10k car. I guess coolness factor is priceless.
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If you're going to count the cost of a computer as everything you need to buy instead of just the cost of upgrading it, then you need to include the cost of an HDTV with the PS3. In reality, nobody buys a gaming computer from scratch every time they want to upgrade. They just swap out their 3d card, or their processor, or their RAM.
Or I can lay down 500 on a 360/PS3 and play a library of games that don't require upgrades or drivers. Simply plug and play.
I plan on getting the orange box for the 360, and probably NOT the PC. I've moved away from the PC. Yes, KB/Mouse combo is much better for most games, but I can learn a new way. I still remember when I was talked into putting down the joystick for Jedi Knight and use the KB/Mouse. Simply put, I'm willing to adapt to have a more enjoyable experience free of headaches of software.
Yes, I'm bummed my launch 360 finally bit it, I'll miss it. But moreso, I am very happy with being able to play games with no issues (like being forced to reboot after leaving any Source game, or it will lock up if I try to go back in), and constant upgrade fever. I get my 360 replaced FREE, and Bioshock will be waiting when I get back, as well as Mass Effect and Orange Box on the horizon.
I'm just waiting on a decent MMO to go to the 360. Heck, I'm waiting on a decent MMO period.
People arguing about the superiority of PC gaming need to understand, PC gaming will ALWAYS be superior if you are willing to spend the money, time, and expertise on making sure it's always running optimally. For the rest of us, I want to sit down and <i>have fun</i>, not try to figure out what I need to do make a game work, <i>then</i> have fun.
Geek squad = ###### MORONS
No matter what options you choose from up there, it's less than or a little more than a 360/PS3, and it will run your games at a far higher resolution, in many cases with fancier graphics, and you'll be able to install user created mods, use a mouse and keyboard/gamepad/joystick with or without throttle/driving wheel/TrackIR/trackpad/tablet/whatever whenever you feel like it. You'll also be able to swap out individual parts if one breaks or becomes obsolete.
As for the time it takes to set up a PC, it takes a day or two to put it together and configure it. Mine has crashed one (1) time since then during gameplay. A PC is as user friendly as you make it.
Note: I don't have a console, but I run on a wonderful Athlon T-Bird 1.33Ghz and 9800 Pro, and reason for this is written just above, plus all the wonderful joys of b0rken components which make you turn to older and older stuff because you can't afford more recent ones. I'm just happy that Socket A was so wonderful.
Let's not forget the motherboard, ram, case, PSU, and hard drive, which do also cost quite a bit of money (I left out keyboard, mouse, cables, headphones, and all those other "little" expenses which also do add up)
Note: I don't have a console, but I run on a wonderful Athlon T-Bird 1.33Ghz and 9800 Pro, and reason for this is written just above, plus all the wonderful joys of b0rken components which make you turn to older and older stuff because you can't afford more recent ones. I'm just happy that Socket A was so wonderful.
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If you're going to count the motherboard, ram, case, PSU, and hard drive, then you have to include the cost of an HDTV with a console. You don't, though, because nobody really starts from scratch. They just add to what they have.
One of my friends got the Ring of Death one two instances but somehow it's managed to fix itself. When he's over the 360 is always next to the AC, just to make sure it doesn't overheat.
No one needs to buy an HDTV to enjoy the latest games. My friend has an HDTV and quite frankly I can't tell two-sh*ts of a difference. Maybe because the thing is the size of the wall.
One of my friends got the Ring of Death one two instances but somehow it's managed to fix itself. When he's over the 360 is always next to the AC, just to make sure it doesn't overheat.
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Then you don't need the latest greatest PC hardware to enjoy the latest games. Just play on a lower detail setting.
Main reason I'm not getting one until they fix all the hardware issues.
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Same for me for PS3. Well, mainly because there aren't any good games out for the PS3 yet but also because of potential problems with all new consoles.
I loled @ the person who <a href="http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=1128603#M1128603" target="_blank">said</a> "Ugh...I'm tired of being a beta tester for an unfinished console."
Buying new consoles the date when they're released = being a beta tester for the console, beware of problems!
Though unlike the PS3, Xbox360 has been out for a while. So buying a Xbox360 at launch or two years later wouldn't be any different in terms of problems.
If you're going to count the cost of a computer as everything you need to buy instead of just the cost of upgrading it, then you need to include the cost of an HDTV with the PS3. In reality, nobody buys a gaming computer from scratch every time they want to upgrade. They just swap out their 3d card, or their processor, or their RAM.
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You actually think there are people that don't know their PS3 can play BluRay, but at the same time would be up for opening up their computer and messing with stuff inside it? I think you're overestimating the geekiness of the average population.
I did it when i bought my ps2. Now its in pieces from me trying to fix it, i dubbed it unrecoverable since the actuator screw thing for the laser was stripped all to hell (wtf, cheap plastic parts dont belong on moving parts) so i stripped all the electronic goodies out of it (leds, fan, yada yada) and used them for other projects <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I also agree with DrFuzzy, though I wouldn't use the word 'retard' in civil conversation. I'd extend that to all consumer electronics. Don't buy the first gen iPod, iPhone, console, graphics card, TV in a product range. Sit behind the bleeding edge for a much more mature set of products. The alpha consumers pay for the privilege of beta testing, and I'm sure it turns them on to be the early adopters, but it isn't my thing.
I'd have to disagree with Tycho with his assertion that maintaining a gaming PC is as easy as maintaining a console. As someone who has to maintain the PC for an army of console owners back in my hometown, I can tell you that people who are entirely comfortable with their 360 or PS3 still depend on my to do simple tasks like install a HD. It isn't just because of the difficulty involved but also because of the apparent risk. For many people, opening a PC is a scarey experience and they do so under a sense of impending doom that they'll 'blow up' their expensive machine. I know how they feel because whenever I have to look under the hood of my car, I feel like I have an IQ of about 10 and it really humbles me. Since I've been a car owner and forced myself to do as much maintenance as possible, I've really developed a lot more understanding towards people who have 'the fear' of the inside of their PC.
Petco, I think ( <b>and to get back on topic</b> ) that the general wisdom of avoiding first revisions of hardware is sensible with all consoles but the problems on the 360 go well beyond the typical sets of problems, and the fact that Microsoft are still manufacturing, shipping and selling defective products even today says a lot more about that company's customer relations than it does about their rather poor hardware design skills. The PS3, oth, shows remarkable durability for such a device. It's failure rates are way below the trends and it performs really well in contrived stress testing.
As I said in another topic, I'm planning to buy a PS3 soon. Sure, I'll love the games, but I think I'll remain a PC gamer for a long time yet. The main reason I'm buying a PS3 is for the Media streaming interfaces it supports ( DLNA = WIN ). I currently have a KISS DP-1500, which is an awesome little box and allows me to stream all my media library ( video, audio, photo ) to my TV. It doesn't have HD output or a HD/BR player, so when I make the jump to HD Ithink I'll go with the PS3 as it is by far the best offer on the market. As I've always said, the PS3 is incredible value to anyone who wants all of its features, and it is very expensive to someone who just wants to play games.
As I've always said, the PS3 is incredible value to anyone who wants all of its features, and it is very expensive to someone who just wants to play games.
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Thats so quoteworthy and sums up the whole ps3 dilemma in one sentence <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />