<!--quoteo(post=1641676:date=Aug 1 2007, 04:09 PM:name=Chocolate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chocolate @ Aug 1 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]1641676[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Alright, I just figured TG and comp play were somewhat similar because TG is 100x better than most other pub servers around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should try out comp play and see the difference yourself.
As a rule: Comp play is much faster than a pub. The first 24 seconds is 1 node, and then usually there are 2-3 after that--we'll assume 3. The amount of time for each player to get 1 res is 6 * 4 / number of nodes. So we'll assume everyone gets 1 res while waiting for the two nodes to go up. After that it's 1 res for everyone every 8 seconds. At 26 res, 1 res every 8 seconds, lerk and chambers go up in 24 + 8 * 4 or 56 seconds to a minute. This is if no alien makes a kill and aliens don't lose a node. The 2nd hive generally goes up at 3:30-4 along with straight fade. If your pub games are this fast, please tell me the server IP so I can play there.
The <i>minimum</i> player skill in comp is generally <b>pub hero</b> combined with the fact that the team plays together and has a lot more organizational tactics. On pubs, I <b>very</b> rarely see fades blocked, marines move while thinking of how their positioning affects their ability to be covered and cover others, marines boosted into vents, pressure & cap teams, gorges on top of hive that's being sieged, etc...
Some pros in vet teams are so good, by joining either team they can effectively ruin the round on any pub server by themselves.
There is very little in-game chatter between teams and virtually none during matches. NS is, as they say, serious business.
Ambushes by aliens are common. In pubs you can solo as a skulk and do decently or even well. This will not ever work ever in comp play unless you are playing a team I'm unaware of. If you start hitting a node, you will probably get rushed by 3-4 skulks and/or a lerk at the same time in 20-30 seconds.
If you or anyone ever wants to spectate a scrim while on our vent channel or maybe even try out a scrim with me, I would be more than willing to help. Just PM me.
As for what I'd like to see from the comp scene: More new players. I didn't even know there was a comp scene in NS. When I found out, I joined. Perhaps if more people knew it existed they would find ways of joining. If the community were bigger, there would be less inside jokes and general retardation. If there were just more mature people than retarded ones, we'd be ok. It's like having a new clan, and everyone is new. It would take a lot longer to get good than it would if they joined an established clan. And in highschool the freshman grow up very quickly because they're around kids a lot more mature than them.
<!--quoteo(post=1641694:date=Aug 1 2007, 05:46 PM:name=tekproxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tekproxy @ Aug 1 2007, 05:46 PM) [snapback]1641694[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The <i>minimum</i> player skill in comp is generally <b>pub hero</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> not really <BAD>FALLOUT is better than half the competitive players in north america
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
Oh man, I never knew these numbers were so precise and time critical. I'm used to "you have 30 res, we need a lerk" and I go lerk. Makes me wonder if I'm ready to make that jump; I mean I can't even do very well in TG (it goes up and down, but every 1/15 games or so I'm at the top of the list at any given time).
It's difficult, if not impossible, to make the transition easily from pub to comp play. You just have to jump in there and be a total noob all over again. Hopefully you have people that will tell you <i>how</i> you're crap and not just <i>that</i> you're crap (not saying you're crapp <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> )
I was over-generalizing when I said the minimum skill level is pub hero. I'd say the average is pub hero. You're not going to be able to bdrop a few marines as a skulk. If you are, consider scrimming someone else.
<!--quoteo(post=1641726:date=Aug 2 2007, 01:24 AM:name=tekproxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tekproxy @ Aug 2 2007, 01:24 AM) [snapback]1641726[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You're not going to be able to bdrop a few marines as a skulk. If you are, consider scrimming someone else. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i do it all the time against prevert, which is in ansl finals
I vote for changing the topic to "What could the comp scene have done for you?".
Jokes aside, the only difference is awareness, and the ###### that comes with awareness. Plus you'll get to sit around and chat about NS tactics and ###### until people start laughing at you.
<!--quoteo(post=1641694:date=Aug 1 2007, 10:46 PM:name=tekproxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tekproxy @ Aug 1 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]1641694[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> So we'll assume everyone gets 1 res while waiting for the two nodes to go up. After that it's 1 res for everyone every 8 seconds. At 26 res, 1 res every 8 seconds, lerk and chambers go up in 24 + 8 * 4 or 56 seconds to a minute. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Allow me to clarify where these numbers are coming from. With 1 node (when you start the game), you have 6 players, and you get 1 res every 4 seconds, therefore, in 24 seconds, you get 6 res (1 res/4 sec), or 1 res for every player. At 24 seconds everyone has 1 res, but you have 3 nodes now, which means 3 res every 4 seconds, or 1 res per player every 8 seconds. You started with 25 res, you got 1 res at 24 seconds, but now you have 3 nodes and are getting 1 res/8sec instead of 1res/24 sec (as with 1 nodes). Lerk only needs to get 4 more res (26 + 4 = 30) and that will happen in 32 seconds (1res/8 sec). So lerk in theory goes up at 56s, but in reality it's not quite that fast.
The problem with this is that it takes 16 seconds to build a node and 10 seconds to evolve to gorge, so really you don't start getting the res from the 3 rts until around 34 - 40 seconds (depending on node distance from starting hive). So add 10-16 seconds onto your lork calculation. Assuming 8 - 14 seconds to get to node, 10 seconds to evolve to gorge, and 16 seconds to build node.
<!--quoteo(post=1641694:date=Aug 1 2007, 10:46 PM:name=tekproxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tekproxy @ Aug 1 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]1641694[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There is very little in-game chatter between teams and virtually none during matches. NS is, as they say, serious business. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't so much because the teams hate eachother, or players are unfriendly, but it's a general curteousy (and in the roles of) nearly all competitive gaming leagues (not just NS).
asmodee: Thanks for explaining that. I was going to refine that post and check all the numbers but I had to leave the office in a hurry.
tjosan: How firmly is your finger on the pulse of comp play? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> If NS is dead, what is AHL? NS isn't dead. Three leagues, several teams, new teams and players. It's just not very popular. A lot of games are suffering loses to new MMORPGs like WoW. The game still is and always will be a unique and enthralling experience. Other games without even half as much awesome as NS still have players.
In other news: HOLY CRAP I JUST FARTED AND IT SMELLED LIKE THERE IS A REAL FIRE INSIDE ME.
<!--quoteo(post=1640773:date=Jul 27 2007, 03:44 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Jul 27 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]1640773[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> there used to be NSLearn, now you can try NSDojo.net - it is useless to give hints in-game because most of the time people don't listen and the mistakes they make are from engraved habits that are hard to break. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sometimes thats true, but I've been able to teach a little bit in-game (in a pub). The biggest example is comming rules, like put pgs and ips in the middle, other structures against walls, in corners, etc.
I also tried to show marine double jumping, but that wasn't as successful. Btw, I learned from a short .avi of some1 double jumping on co_faceoff. I found that file on these forums, does anyone know where that is now?
Ok, ideally, what I would want from the competitive scene is a streamlined experience. Make pugs very easy to set up, so that people who don't have time to sit in IRC all day can still play. Basically, figure out an efficient system.
My current views of competitive: I get the impression its getting smaller. My impression of when it was at its height was around the time when Exigent was giving lessons out, a couple seasons before CAL-NS stopped (did anyone take those lessons? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> )
I don't really understand the supposed animosity between clanners and pubbers. My experience with clanners is mostly limited to these boards and occasionally a couple of clanners visit my home server Jigglypuff's. They are usually are pretty quiet and don't antagonize people (beyond 65% of the time going marines and running to spawncamp. Luckily most of the time people on the server are competant enough to take him out and the odd marine that tags along and thus keep the game enjoyable for all). ARE clanners meaner in numbers?
<!--quoteo(post=1641775:date=Aug 2 2007, 06:55 PM:name=AnimeLOL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnimeLOL @ Aug 2 2007, 06:55 PM) [snapback]1641775[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ok, ideally, what I would want from the competitive scene is a streamlined experience. Make pugs very easy to set up, so that people who don't have time to sit in IRC all day can still play. Basically, figure out an efficient system. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There used to be a bot on IRC where you'd type ".join" and you'd 'join the pug' then when enough people joined (12) it would automatically message the server and pass to everyone. The problem with this is that not everyone joined immediately. Then 15 minutes later people would start trying to find ringers.. then you'd get too many ringers and no one would leave, then 30 mins later you finally start playing.
I wanted to write my own bot that streamlined this process. Basically give people 5 mins to join, whoever didn't join by this time would be removed from the authorized pug users list and the bot would start asking for ringers. The first ringer on gets the spot and anyone else not on the authorized player list is auto forced to spectate. This way if people go afk, the bot handles getting more and you don't end up with these horrible waits.
I ended up not writing a new bot because I got too busy with other things and got criticism from those who liked (for some unknown reason) the old pickup bot, but now the old pickup bot is down and I sort of lost interest in doing this, mainly because I don't think IRC is the best way to organize pugs. Not even all organized players hang out in IRC.
My new idea I think is much better than an IRC bot. Basically a bot sits on steam friends and you add it. When you're available for a pug you msg the bot (via steam) .join or something like that. And basically have it act like the IRC bot in other aspects (could send you game join invites and such as well). This would be much easier for users, allow more users to get involved with it, and overall be a better system. What I'm not sure of is the feasibility. I haven't looked into how the steam friends protocol works and whether or not there are any libraries out there to make interfacing with it easy.
If anyone is interested in working on such a system I can provide the server(s) for both the game and the bot as well as work on code, but I'd rather not do it alone as it would take more time than I'm willing to devote, especially if there are no libraries for interfacing to steam friends.
<!--quoteo(post=1641683:date=Aug 1 2007, 05:40 PM:name=Kmart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kmart @ Aug 1 2007, 05:40 PM) [snapback]1641683[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Didn't the TG regs have a competitive team at one point? Whatever happened to it? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lasted a season, their tactics didnt work in league play and they were too stubborn to change to those that work for their skill level. Also a few didnt "enjoy" the way that most teams played, playing to win isn't in their hand book. Although they did pump a few players into the clan seen for a while so all was not lost.
I would love to sit down and brainstorm on how to make pugs more accessible and faster to setup and play. Right now pugs are a scarcely known thing in NS. For those of you that don't know, a pug is when 12 random people get together to play a 6v6 match.
The way pugs work right now is you get on #nspickup and talk with a bot to reserve a server. You are considered the "creator" of the pug, and can enable/disable screen shots, change the map and kick players. Once it's created, the bot tells everyone in the channel that 1/12 people are in the pug. Joining is easy, something like .j 1, where 1 is the server number. It's been <i>a while</i> for me... Once the pug has 12, everyone is given the IP and password and connects.
IF a pug reaches this far, usually other people that did not join the pug will show up and either spec like decent human beings or be total retards. Then both teams call the strat and ready up.
I think most of the problem would be fixed by more people knowing that pugs even exist. I think that of the people that do, most people don't even try to start one because they usually never happen. To really give pugs a kick-start it will take 6-10 people to consistently start pugs AND for more people to learn that they exist. I only learned of them because I dig into everything whenever I get into something. My theory is that once you start seeding pugs like you do servers, more interest will be generated. A few people might come back to #nspickup, a few people might start offering servers for e-fame++, a few people might tell a few people about pugs. You also wouldn't have as much of a problem with AFKers not joining if there was more interest, because there will be ample ringers.
If someone wants to join an elite group of PUG MASTERS, let me know.
just wanna show u an example of what i usually encounter: (taken/edited from ingame console, i am (my smurf name), hiding my smurf name)
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: lost ###### base mag killed [Clown]Thresh with heavymachinegun [McSwift]furnace562OA!: u guys ###### make me sick Metal Man: rofl (my smurf name): ur sending all ur dudes one way VALIS killed Darth Sailor with bitegun Locane killed VALIS with machinegun (TEAM) [Clown]Thresh: fear pg Poopy Balls killed [RSr] Ein with heavymachinegun (my smurf name): and leaving the other side open Poopy Balls killed Metal Man with pistol [McSwift]furnace562OA!: i told 2 to stay po killed Fireball with devour (my smurf name): gotta name names [McSwift]furnace562OA!: uh i did [McSwift]furnace562OA!: stfu Fireball: lol (my smurf name): then name different ones [McSwift]furnace562OA!: u cant even hear what im saying [McSwift]furnace562OA!: oh ok u are ###### smart Darth Sailor killed [Clown]Thresh with heavymachinegun (my smurf name): i can see what ur doing though [McSwift]furnace562OA!: u ###### ###### Fireball: lol (my smurf name): listen im trying to help Fireball: easy to criticize, hard to do Metal Man: hey (my smurf name), i wouldnt get on furnaces bad side if i were you [McSwift]furnace562OA!: i dont need help im furnace Poopy Balls: why was everyone in base.. even then Metal Man: its ###### scary (my smurf name): im not being mean or nasty or anything im trying to give advice [McSwift]furnace562OA!: im ###### famous here [RSr] Ein: -.- Metal Man: furnace if you want.. i can offer you some advice on how to be a better comm Metal Man: cuz im the ###### (my smurf name) killed Locane with swipe Fireball: lol metal man
granted i joined the game, faded, thne pretty much led a seige against their tfs and phase gates and killed a bunch of their guys so he was probably angry at me already but w/e.
Haha, furnace, oh man. The thing is, we regulars on Jiggly's sometimes get...well we start to think we own the place, and when we get frustrated, sometimes we feel like we have the right to abuse other people for it just because its our "home turf." I'm not defending, just explaining.
Also, what was it about TG's strats that didn't work when translated to competitive play?
i havent read everyone responces and i am to tired to but, my opinion, not exsackly answering every question in order. but hopefully am summing it all up nicely is.
well i would love to get into the competative scene but I am really crap at ns. I spend to much time thinking of and trying new things, then perfecting them, tossing them out or makeing variations, in turn I dont stick with and hone my pure ownage skills the same rediclous moves over and over again. *you can tell when I am thinking up new stuff cos I wont be bunnie hopeing.
In turn I would prolly make a great clan leader, always trying new tactics, but that consumes way to much time, It would just require every one to be on the same page and listen acctuly know and do whats require of them with out to much hassel, thats what i like about the clan scene. the hive mind like actions and recations that happen between team mates working togther consistantly cowardinating comunicating and working togther.
you cant have a attitude, you have to communicate, you cant say yoru ###### hes ###### you cant do that tactics you all suck.
you gotta say ok what are we trying to do am i doing what i am requried to do to the best of my ability, are they doing what they are requried to do to the best of their ability, do i have any thing to help them out, can I help them out, are we sucessfull yes or no. ok, try it again hopefully better, prahaps another time or rince repeat, sucessful, yes/no, ok group discution pros cons of that tactic ddoes its pros out weigh its cons, is there any thing we can take from it and appile to other area's.
servers have to have low player caps 14-16 players is nice 16's getting a bit to high, alien res goes out the window any higher than that, any lower and you start getting alien chambers every where. ether way if its a pug your going to see rines kill your first 25 res investment, no ones going to help you defend it, rine camp a few nodes till they unlock 3/3 then spawn camp rape you. i am hopeing the pub scene brings a tottaly different game play style, i would imagine its like them games where both teams sit on equal nodes, and fight tooth and nail for 3 hours trying to turn the tide of battle in their favor. its not a 40 minute broken record then. yoru brain acctuly has to do some thinking and try diffrerent tactics to break the enamys line / moral. when your old honed ownage skills fail at life.
right now i thik the competative scene is picking back up by the amount of threads getting around. but before ns2 was anounced i was under the impression it was dieing rapidly, and only a few good names still remained. but once apon a time it was flurishing, and even then clan nexus [NX] was good enough to spawn a american variant, n2c even was looking at potchering a few of our members and we werent even realy in the scene, just body bags trying new thing's in scrims, and geting laughed at with comments like owned and so on. argh the days of of shuting up a claner when you web spit gorge his HA to peices as his two mates cant get to him to weld him. and the coms taking care of his mates who are being web / faded and chomped.
I would love for it to start back up, the social leadership and command aspect of ns is what gets me into it. i genraly dont like coming for marines, as usualy my idea's only require a few helpers, and while i am working them ideas it usualy leaves the rest of the map or team unatended to hence i tend to spam F2 for kharaa.
love working as a team tho, a solid team not some team that moves thru hte map in dribs and drabs a team tha tregroups consistantly and psuhes thru coridors as one, you dont have to lok eveyr where you jsut watch your tiny portion of your screen and do yoru job trusting other are doing there's and only if you truely know your job is done will you attmpt to assist others in there role unless they clearly need it and the groups surivial depends on your choice of action. thats the dopamine my brain loves, those are the endorphines my vains crave.
I swear i have seen marine avatars ###### them selves at a cowardinated sulk flooding of coridors. when a cyclon of sulks comes riping around a courner you know your pistal isnt going to help.
I love being bait, I have come around courners with back up and had a entire marine team waste entire clips on me and me still be standing on the roof as a sulk chuckeling as i have dodge all fire and they just got eaten while reloading.
if the clan scene does pick up again i would love a aussie clan to pick me up, but i hope that if they do, they have patiance, they ambush, and the force the enamy to scan, cos running around like rabid dogs on crack, while rines have that blue target and yellow dot tracking will get you shot every time.
take what i say with a grain of salt i prolly wont see your replie, but that is my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1642085:date=Aug 4 2007, 12:34 PM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Aug 4 2007, 12:34 PM) [snapback]1642085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i havent read everyone responces and i am to tired to but, my opinion, not exsackly answering every question in order. but hopefully am summing it all up nicely is.
well i would love to get into the competative scene but I am really crap at ns. I spend to much time thinking of and trying new things, then perfecting them, tossing them out or makeing variations, in turn I dont stick with and hone my pure ownage skills the same rediclous moves over and over again. *you can tell when I am thinking up new stuff cos I wont be bunnie hopeing.
In turn I would prolly make a great clan leader, always trying new tactics, but that consumes way to much time, It would just require every one to be on the same page and listen acctuly know and do whats require of them with out to much hassel, thats what i like about the clan scene. the hive mind like actions and recations that happen between team mates working togther consistantly cowardinating comunicating and working togther.
you cant have a attitude, you have to communicate, you cant say yoru ###### hes ###### you cant do that tactics you all suck.
you gotta say ok what are we trying to do am i doing what i am requried to do to the best of my ability, are they doing what they are requried to do to the best of their ability, do i have any thing to help them out, can I help them out, are we sucessfull yes or no. ok, try it again hopefully better, prahaps another time or rince repeat, sucessful, yes/no, ok group discution pros cons of that tactic ddoes its pros out weigh its cons, is there any thing we can take from it and appile to other area's.
servers have to have low player caps 14-16 players is nice 16's getting a bit to high, alien res goes out the window any higher than that, any lower and you start getting alien chambers every where. ether way if its a pug your going to see rines kill your first 25 res investment, no ones going to help you defend it, rine camp a few nodes till they unlock 3/3 then spawn camp rape you. i am hopeing the pub scene brings a tottaly different game play style, i would imagine its like them games where both teams sit on equal nodes, and fight tooth and nail for 3 hours trying to turn the tide of battle in their favor. its not a 40 minute broken record then. yoru brain acctuly has to do some thinking and try diffrerent tactics to break the enamys line / moral. when your old honed ownage skills fail at life.
right now i thik the competative scene is picking back up by the amount of threads getting around. but before ns2 was anounced i was under the impression it was dieing rapidly, and only a few good names still remained. but once apon a time it was flurishing, and even then clan nexus [NX] was good enough to spawn a american variant, n2c even was looking at potchering a few of our members and we werent even realy in the scene, just body bags trying new thing's in scrims, and geting laughed at with comments like owned and so on. argh the days of of shuting up a claner when you web spit gorge his HA to peices as his two mates cant get to him to weld him. and the coms taking care of his mates who are being web / faded and chomped.
I would love for it to start back up, the social leadership and command aspect of ns is what gets me into it. i genraly dont like coming for marines, as usualy my idea's only require a few helpers, and while i am working them ideas it usualy leaves the rest of the map or team unatended to hence i tend to spam F2 for kharaa.
love working as a team tho, a solid team not some team that moves thru hte map in dribs and drabs a team tha tregroups consistantly and psuhes thru coridors as one, you dont have to lok eveyr where you jsut watch your tiny portion of your screen and do yoru job trusting other are doing there's and only if you truely know your job is done will you attmpt to assist others in there role unless they clearly need it and the groups surivial depends on your choice of action. thats the dopamine my brain loves, those are the endorphines my vains crave.
I swear i have seen marine avatars ###### them selves at a cowardinated sulk flooding of coridors. when a cyclon of sulks comes riping around a courner you know your pistal isnt going to help.
I love being bait, I have come around courners with back up and had a entire marine team waste entire clips on me and me still be standing on the roof as a sulk chuckeling as i have dodge all fire and they just got eaten while reloading.
if the clan scene does pick up again i would love a aussie clan to pick me up, but i hope that if they do, they have patiance, they ambush, and the force the enamy to scan, cos running around like rabid dogs on crack, while rines have that blue target and yellow dot tracking will get you shot every time. take what i say with a grain of salt i prolly wont see your replie, but that is my opinion. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Competitive gaming doesn't interest me, and it doesnt interest the vast majority of players. I have read a lot about the "death of competitive NS" on these forums and honestly I don't understand what the big deal is. Why do some people place so much importance on it?
Because with many other mods it's easy to just be really good and carry your random pub team and have fun and win a lot. In NS teamwork is more of a requirement than a novelty and most pub games just don't have it. Competitive NS means you have 6 people, which is a good start for res balance, and you have 6 people that (usually) work together. Essentially: Competitive games have a higher standard of awesome. It would be more awesome if there were more teams, because right now you know almost everyone, and everyone knows you. Try competitive if you haven't already if you don't understand it.
Exactly. Playing consistently on pubs is like living in an atmosphere of constant humidity and smog, and saying "yeah the air is great" because you've never been in a clean-oxygen environment.
@NEX9: Leading a clan doesn't take that much time. You can idle all day if you really want to, or you can schedule scrim nights and meetings. It takes as much time as you put into it.
<!--quoteo(post=1642132:date=Aug 4 2007, 05:25 PM:name=frostymoose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frostymoose @ Aug 4 2007, 05:25 PM) [snapback]1642132[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Competitive gaming doesn't interest me, and it doesnt interest the vast majority of players. I have read a lot about the "death of competitive NS" on these forums and honestly I don't understand what the big deal is. Why do some people place so much importance on it? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> because a game that doesnt have a competetive scene to drive it has no future, it dies off
comp play is a just another level of play. it's really like flying into space. completely different world. really expensive in terms of cost to get there.
Comments
Alright, I just figured TG and comp play were somewhat similar because TG is 100x better than most other pub servers around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should try out comp play and see the difference yourself.
As a rule:
Comp play is much faster than a pub. The first 24 seconds is 1 node, and then usually there are 2-3 after that--we'll assume 3. The amount of time for each player to get 1 res is 6 * 4 / number of nodes. So we'll assume everyone gets 1 res while waiting for the two nodes to go up. After that it's 1 res for everyone every 8 seconds. At 26 res, 1 res every 8 seconds, lerk and chambers go up in 24 + 8 * 4 or 56 seconds to a minute. This is if no alien makes a kill and aliens don't lose a node. The 2nd hive generally goes up at 3:30-4 along with straight fade. If your pub games are this fast, please tell me the server IP so I can play there.
The <i>minimum</i> player skill in comp is generally <b>pub hero</b> combined with the fact that the team plays together and has a lot more organizational tactics. On pubs, I <b>very</b> rarely see fades blocked, marines move while thinking of how their positioning affects their ability to be covered and cover others, marines boosted into vents, pressure & cap teams, gorges on top of hive that's being sieged, etc...
Some pros in vet teams are so good, by joining either team they can effectively ruin the round on any pub server by themselves.
There is very little in-game chatter between teams and virtually none during matches. NS is, as they say, serious business.
Ambushes by aliens are common. In pubs you can solo as a skulk and do decently or even well. This will not ever work ever in comp play unless you are playing a team I'm unaware of. If you start hitting a node, you will probably get rushed by 3-4 skulks and/or a lerk at the same time in 20-30 seconds.
If you or anyone ever wants to spectate a scrim while on our vent channel or maybe even try out a scrim with me, I would be more than willing to help. Just PM me.
As for what I'd like to see from the comp scene:
More new players. I didn't even know there was a comp scene in NS. When I found out, I joined. Perhaps if more people knew it existed they would find ways of joining. If the community were bigger, there would be less inside jokes and general retardation. If there were just more mature people than retarded ones, we'd be ok. It's like having a new clan, and everyone is new. It would take a lot longer to get good than it would if they joined an established clan. And in highschool the freshman grow up very quickly because they're around kids a lot more mature than them.
The <i>minimum</i> player skill in comp is generally <b>pub hero</b>
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not really
<BAD>FALLOUT is better than half the competitive players in north america
I'd write more, but I need sleep now...
I was over-generalizing when I said the minimum skill level is pub hero. I'd say the average is pub hero. You're not going to be able to bdrop a few marines as a skulk. If you are, consider scrimming someone else.
You're not going to be able to bdrop a few marines as a skulk. If you are, consider scrimming someone else.
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i do it all the time against prevert, which is in ansl finals
I vote for changing the topic to "What could the comp scene have done for you?".
Jokes aside, the only difference is awareness, and the ###### that comes with awareness. Plus you'll get to sit around and chat about NS tactics and ###### until people start laughing at you.
So we'll assume everyone gets 1 res while waiting for the two nodes to go up. After that it's 1 res for everyone every 8 seconds. At 26 res, 1 res every 8 seconds, lerk and chambers go up in 24 + 8 * 4 or 56 seconds to a minute.
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Allow me to clarify where these numbers are coming from. With 1 node (when you start the game), you have 6 players, and you get 1 res every 4 seconds, therefore, in 24 seconds, you get 6 res (1 res/4 sec), or 1 res for every player. At 24 seconds everyone has 1 res, but you have 3 nodes now, which means 3 res every 4 seconds, or 1 res per player every 8 seconds. You started with 25 res, you got 1 res at 24 seconds, but now you have 3 nodes and are getting 1 res/8sec instead of 1res/24 sec (as with 1 nodes). Lerk only needs to get 4 more res (26 + 4 = 30) and that will happen in 32 seconds (1res/8 sec). So lerk in theory goes up at 56s, but in reality it's not quite that fast.
The problem with this is that it takes 16 seconds to build a node and 10 seconds to evolve to gorge, so really you don't start getting the res from the 3 rts until around 34 - 40 seconds (depending on node distance from starting hive). So add 10-16 seconds onto your lork calculation. Assuming 8 - 14 seconds to get to node, 10 seconds to evolve to gorge, and 16 seconds to build node.
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There is very little in-game chatter between teams and virtually none during matches. NS is, as they say, serious business.
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This isn't so much because the teams hate eachother, or players are unfriendly, but it's a general curteousy (and in the roles of) nearly all competitive gaming leagues (not just NS).
Thanks for explaining that. I was going to refine that post and check all the numbers but I had to leave the office in a hurry.
tjosan:
How firmly is your finger on the pulse of comp play? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> If NS is dead, what is AHL? NS isn't dead. Three leagues, several teams, new teams and players. It's just not very popular. A lot of games are suffering loses to new MMORPGs like WoW. The game still is and always will be a unique and enthralling experience. Other games without even half as much awesome as NS still have players.
In other news:
HOLY CRAP I JUST FARTED AND IT SMELLED LIKE THERE IS A REAL FIRE INSIDE ME.
there used to be NSLearn, now you can try NSDojo.net - it is useless to give hints in-game because most of the time people don't listen and the mistakes they make are from engraved habits that are hard to break.
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Sometimes thats true, but I've been able to teach a little bit in-game (in a pub). The biggest example is comming rules, like put pgs and ips in the middle, other structures against walls, in corners, etc.
I also tried to show marine double jumping, but that wasn't as successful. Btw, I learned from a short .avi of some1 double jumping on co_faceoff. I found that file on these forums, does anyone know where that is now?
Ok, ideally, what I would want from the competitive scene is a streamlined experience. Make pugs very easy to set up, so that people who don't have time to sit in IRC all day can still play. Basically, figure out an efficient system.
My current views of competitive: I get the impression its getting smaller. My impression of when it was at its height was around the time when Exigent was giving lessons out, a couple seasons before CAL-NS stopped (did anyone take those lessons? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> )
I don't really understand the supposed animosity between clanners and pubbers. My experience with clanners is mostly limited to these boards and occasionally a couple of clanners visit my home server Jigglypuff's. They are usually are pretty quiet and don't antagonize people (beyond 65% of the time going marines and running to spawncamp. Luckily most of the time people on the server are competant enough to take him out and the odd marine that tags along and thus keep the game enjoyable for all). ARE clanners meaner in numbers?
Ok, ideally, what I would want from the competitive scene is a streamlined experience. Make pugs very easy to set up, so that people who don't have time to sit in IRC all day can still play. Basically, figure out an efficient system.
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There used to be a bot on IRC where you'd type ".join" and you'd 'join the pug' then when enough people joined (12) it would automatically message the server and pass to everyone. The problem with this is that not everyone joined immediately. Then 15 minutes later people would start trying to find ringers.. then you'd get too many ringers and no one would leave, then 30 mins later you finally start playing.
I wanted to write my own bot that streamlined this process. Basically give people 5 mins to join, whoever didn't join by this time would be removed from the authorized pug users list and the bot would start asking for ringers. The first ringer on gets the spot and anyone else not on the authorized player list is auto forced to spectate. This way if people go afk, the bot handles getting more and you don't end up with these horrible waits.
I ended up not writing a new bot because I got too busy with other things and got criticism from those who liked (for some unknown reason) the old pickup bot, but now the old pickup bot is down and I sort of lost interest in doing this, mainly because I don't think IRC is the best way to organize pugs. Not even all organized players hang out in IRC.
My new idea I think is much better than an IRC bot. Basically a bot sits on steam friends and you add it. When you're available for a pug you msg the bot (via steam) .join or something like that. And basically have it act like the IRC bot in other aspects (could send you game join invites and such as well). This would be much easier for users, allow more users to get involved with it, and overall be a better system. What I'm not sure of is the feasibility. I haven't looked into how the steam friends protocol works and whether or not there are any libraries out there to make interfacing with it easy.
If anyone is interested in working on such a system I can provide the server(s) for both the game and the bot as well as work on code, but I'd rather not do it alone as it would take more time than I'm willing to devote, especially if there are no libraries for interfacing to steam friends.
Didn't the TG regs have a competitive team at one point? Whatever happened to it?
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Lasted a season, their tactics didnt work in league play and they were too stubborn to change to those that work for their skill level. Also a few didnt "enjoy" the way that most teams played, playing to win isn't in their hand book. Although they did pump a few players into the clan seen for a while so all was not lost.
The way pugs work right now is you get on #nspickup and talk with a bot to reserve a server. You are considered the "creator" of the pug, and can enable/disable screen shots, change the map and kick players. Once it's created, the bot tells everyone in the channel that 1/12 people are in the pug. Joining is easy, something like .j 1, where 1 is the server number. It's been <i>a while</i> for me... Once the pug has 12, everyone is given the IP and password and connects.
IF a pug reaches this far, usually other people that did not join the pug will show up and either spec like decent human beings or be total retards. Then both teams call the strat and ready up.
I think most of the problem would be fixed by more people knowing that pugs even exist. I think that of the people that do, most people don't even try to start one because they usually never happen. To really give pugs a kick-start it will take 6-10 people to consistently start pugs AND for more people to learn that they exist. I only learned of them because I dig into everything whenever I get into something. My theory is that once you start seeding pugs like you do servers, more interest will be generated. A few people might come back to #nspickup, a few people might start offering servers for e-fame++, a few people might tell a few people about pugs. You also wouldn't have as much of a problem with AFKers not joining if there was more interest, because there will be ample ringers.
If someone wants to join an elite group of PUG MASTERS, let me know.
(taken/edited from ingame console, i am (my smurf name), hiding my smurf name)
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: lost ###### base
mag killed [Clown]Thresh with heavymachinegun
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: u guys ###### make me sick
Metal Man: rofl
(my smurf name): ur sending all ur dudes one way
VALIS killed Darth Sailor with bitegun
Locane killed VALIS with machinegun
(TEAM) [Clown]Thresh: fear pg
Poopy Balls killed [RSr] Ein with heavymachinegun
(my smurf name): and leaving the other side open
Poopy Balls killed Metal Man with pistol
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: i told 2 to stay
po killed Fireball with devour
(my smurf name): gotta name names
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: uh i did
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: stfu
Fireball: lol
(my smurf name): then name different ones
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: u cant even hear what im saying
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: oh ok u are ###### smart
Darth Sailor killed [Clown]Thresh with heavymachinegun
(my smurf name): i can see what ur doing though
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: u ###### ######
Fireball: lol
(my smurf name): listen im trying to help
Fireball: easy to criticize, hard to do
Metal Man: hey (my smurf name), i wouldnt get on furnaces bad side if i were you
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: i dont need help im furnace
Poopy Balls: why was everyone in base.. even then
Metal Man: its ###### scary
(my smurf name): im not being mean or nasty or anything im trying to give advice
[McSwift]furnace562OA!: im ###### famous here
[RSr] Ein: -.-
Metal Man: furnace if you want.. i can offer you some advice on how to be a better comm
Metal Man: cuz im the ######
(my smurf name) killed Locane with swipe
Fireball: lol metal man
granted i joined the game, faded, thne pretty much led a seige against their tfs and phase gates and killed a bunch of their guys so he was probably angry at me already but w/e.
Also, what was it about TG's strats that didn't work when translated to competitive play?
well i would love to get into the competative scene but I am really crap at ns. I spend to much time thinking of and trying new things, then perfecting them, tossing them out or makeing variations, in turn I dont stick with and hone my pure ownage skills the same rediclous moves over and over again. *you can tell when I am thinking up new stuff cos I wont be bunnie hopeing.
In turn I would prolly make a great clan leader, always trying new tactics, but that consumes way to much time, It would just require every one to be on the same page and listen acctuly know and do whats require of them with out to much hassel, thats what i like about the clan scene. the hive mind like actions and recations that happen between team mates working togther consistantly cowardinating comunicating and working togther.
you cant have a attitude, you have to communicate, you cant say yoru ###### hes ###### you cant do that tactics you all suck.
you gotta say ok what are we trying to do am i doing what i am requried to do to the best of my ability, are they doing what they are requried to do to the best of their ability, do i have any thing to help them out, can I help them out, are we sucessfull yes or no. ok, try it again hopefully better, prahaps another time or rince repeat, sucessful, yes/no, ok group discution pros cons of that tactic ddoes its pros out weigh its cons, is there any thing we can take from it and appile to other area's.
servers have to have low player caps 14-16 players is nice 16's getting a bit to high, alien res goes out the window any higher than that, any lower and you start getting alien chambers every where. ether way if its a pug your going to see rines kill your first 25 res investment, no ones going to help you defend it, rine camp a few nodes till they unlock 3/3 then spawn camp rape you. i am hopeing the pub scene brings a tottaly different game play style, i would imagine its like them games where both teams sit on equal nodes, and fight tooth and nail for 3 hours trying to turn the tide of battle in their favor. its not a 40 minute broken record then. yoru brain acctuly has to do some thinking and try diffrerent tactics to break the enamys line / moral. when your old honed ownage skills fail at life.
right now i thik the competative scene is picking back up by the amount of threads getting around. but before ns2 was anounced i was under the impression it was dieing rapidly, and only a few good names still remained. but once apon a time it was flurishing, and even then clan nexus [NX] was good enough to spawn a american variant, n2c even was looking at potchering a few of our members and we werent even realy in the scene, just body bags trying new thing's in scrims, and geting laughed at with comments like owned and so on. argh the days of of shuting up a claner when you web spit gorge his HA to peices as his two mates cant get to him to weld him. and the coms taking care of his mates who are being web / faded and chomped.
I would love for it to start back up, the social leadership and command aspect of ns is what gets me into it. i genraly dont like coming for marines, as usualy my idea's only require a few helpers, and while i am working them ideas it usualy leaves the rest of the map or team unatended to hence i tend to spam F2 for kharaa.
love working as a team tho, a solid team not some team that moves thru hte map in dribs and drabs a team tha tregroups consistantly and psuhes thru coridors as one, you dont have to lok eveyr where you jsut watch your tiny portion of your screen and do yoru job trusting other are doing there's and only if you truely know your job is done will you attmpt to assist others in there role unless they clearly need it and the groups surivial depends on your choice of action. thats the dopamine my brain loves, those are the endorphines my vains crave.
I swear i have seen marine avatars ###### them selves at a cowardinated sulk flooding of coridors. when a cyclon of sulks comes riping around a courner you know your pistal isnt going to help.
I love being bait, I have come around courners with back up and had a entire marine team waste entire clips on me and me still be standing on the roof as a sulk chuckeling as i have dodge all fire and they just got eaten while reloading.
if the clan scene does pick up again i would love a aussie clan to pick me up, but i hope that if they do, they have patiance, they ambush, and the force the enamy to scan, cos running around like rabid dogs on crack, while rines have that blue target and yellow dot tracking will get you shot every time.
take what i say with a grain of salt i prolly wont see your replie, but that is my opinion.
i havent read everyone responces and i am to tired to but, my opinion, not exsackly answering every question in order. but hopefully am summing it all up nicely is.
well i would love to get into the competative scene but I am really crap at ns. I spend to much time thinking of and trying new things, then perfecting them, tossing them out or makeing variations, in turn I dont stick with and hone my pure ownage skills the same rediclous moves over and over again. *you can tell when I am thinking up new stuff cos I wont be bunnie hopeing.
In turn I would prolly make a great clan leader, always trying new tactics, but that consumes way to much time, It would just require every one to be on the same page and listen acctuly know and do whats require of them with out to much hassel, thats what i like about the clan scene. the hive mind like actions and recations that happen between team mates working togther consistantly cowardinating comunicating and working togther.
you cant have a attitude, you have to communicate, you cant say yoru ###### hes ###### you cant do that tactics you all suck.
you gotta say ok what are we trying to do am i doing what i am requried to do to the best of my ability, are they doing what they are requried to do to the best of their ability, do i have any thing to help them out, can I help them out, are we sucessfull yes or no. ok, try it again hopefully better, prahaps another time or rince repeat, sucessful, yes/no, ok group discution pros cons of that tactic ddoes its pros out weigh its cons, is there any thing we can take from it and appile to other area's.
servers have to have low player caps 14-16 players is nice 16's getting a bit to high, alien res goes out the window any higher than that, any lower and you start getting alien chambers every where. ether way if its a pug your going to see rines kill your first 25 res investment, no ones going to help you defend it, rine camp a few nodes till they unlock 3/3 then spawn camp rape you. i am hopeing the pub scene brings a tottaly different game play style, i would imagine its like them games where both teams sit on equal nodes, and fight tooth and nail for 3 hours trying to turn the tide of battle in their favor. its not a 40 minute broken record then. yoru brain acctuly has to do some thinking and try diffrerent tactics to break the enamys line / moral. when your old honed ownage skills fail at life.
right now i thik the competative scene is picking back up by the amount of threads getting around. but before ns2 was anounced i was under the impression it was dieing rapidly, and only a few good names still remained. but once apon a time it was flurishing, and even then clan nexus [NX] was good enough to spawn a american variant, n2c even was looking at potchering a few of our members and we werent even realy in the scene, just body bags trying new thing's in scrims, and geting laughed at with comments like owned and so on. argh the days of of shuting up a claner when you web spit gorge his HA to peices as his two mates cant get to him to weld him. and the coms taking care of his mates who are being web / faded and chomped.
I would love for it to start back up, the social leadership and command aspect of ns is what gets me into it. i genraly dont like coming for marines, as usualy my idea's only require a few helpers, and while i am working them ideas it usualy leaves the rest of the map or team unatended to hence i tend to spam F2 for kharaa.
love working as a team tho, a solid team not some team that moves thru hte map in dribs and drabs a team tha tregroups consistantly and psuhes thru coridors as one, you dont have to lok eveyr where you jsut watch your tiny portion of your screen and do yoru job trusting other are doing there's and only if you truely know your job is done will you attmpt to assist others in there role unless they clearly need it and the groups surivial depends on your choice of action. thats the dopamine my brain loves, those are the endorphines my vains crave.
I swear i have seen marine avatars ###### them selves at a cowardinated sulk flooding of coridors. when a cyclon of sulks comes riping around a courner you know your pistal isnt going to help.
I love being bait, I have come around courners with back up and had a entire marine team waste entire clips on me and me still be standing on the roof as a sulk chuckeling as i have dodge all fire and they just got eaten while reloading.
if the clan scene does pick up again i would love a aussie clan to pick me up, but i hope that if they do, they have patiance, they ambush, and the force the enamy to scan, cos running around like rabid dogs on crack, while rines have that blue target and yellow dot tracking will get you shot every time.
take what i say with a grain of salt i prolly wont see your replie, but that is my opinion.
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yeah i agree
Competitive gaming doesn't interest me, and it doesnt interest the vast majority of players.
I have read a lot about the "death of competitive NS" on these forums and honestly I don't understand what the big deal is. Why do some people place so much importance on it?
@NEX9: Leading a clan doesn't take that much time. You can idle all day if you really want to, or you can schedule scrim nights and meetings. It takes as much time as you put into it.
Competitive gaming doesn't interest me, and it doesnt interest the vast majority of players.
I have read a lot about the "death of competitive NS" on these forums and honestly I don't understand what the big deal is. Why do some people place so much importance on it?
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because a game that doesnt have a competetive scene to drive it has no future, it dies off