TWG XIV: Mystery at Rockyford - Postgame

Theslan · July 2007

<div class="IPBDescription">What mystery? What mystery?</div>Ok, there's a lot of ground I need to cover, and I'm at work, so I can only cover several sections. They are broken to:

1. Roles
2. The actual game and moves.
3. My view and other views.
4. Analysis.
5. Issues that were brought up.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Roles</span>
There were several roles in the game. I've included also the roles that were picked up from the minigame:
<span style="color:#CC0000">1. Eternaly_Lost [Magician] - wolf</span>
<span style="color:#33CC00">2. Soul Rider [Trained Monkey] - human (Seer 8 from Day 1)</span>
<span style="color:#00CCCC">3. Im lost [Tightrope walker] -guardian</span>
<span style="color:#FFCC00">4. Xentor [Fire breather] - Scalpel from Day 1</span>
<span style="color:#33CC00">5. Nightstalker [Security] - human (nothing)</span>
<span style="color:#33CC00">6. Faskalia [RingMaster] - human (nothing)</span>
<span style="color:#FF0000">7. Thansal [Strong man] - wolf</span>
8. doomchica [Small Booth Vendor] - idle human
9. Kassinger [Giftshop Vendor] - idle human
<span style="color:#33FF33">10. Petco [Security] - human </span>
<span style="color:#66CCCC">11. Isamil [Clown] - Psychic</span>
<span style="color:#FF0000">12. Ana [Blind Costume Designer] - idle wolf (with Investigator)</span>
<span style="color:#66CCCC">13. TheFeniX [Security] - seer</span>

Items that were never found:
- Seer's curse
- GPS system

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">2. Actual game and moves (and clues)</span>

Clues:

1. The sixth digit is the only even number.
2. The second digit equals the sum of the fifth and sixth.
3. The second digit is ‘3’.
4. The [difference] of the second and fourth digit [equals] [to] the [sixth] digit.
5. No two digits have the same number.
6. The first digit is the largest number in the sequence.
7. The [sum] of the fourth and sixth digit [equals] [to] the [third] digit.

<a href="http://imageshack.us" target="_blank"><img src="http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/527/maptwgroomsha6.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>

Rooms:
1 - Manager Trailer - clue #4
2 - Circus Trailers - clue #3, GPS, scalpel
3 - Circus - clue #5
4 - Museum - clue #1
5 - Gift shop/Vendors - clue #2, investigator
6 - Houses (red) - clue #6
7 - Houses (green) - clue #7, seer 8
8 - Community Center - Seer's curse, seer 8
9 - Fields (red)
10 - Fields (green)

Now I expected people to find out the clues through this sequence:

Clue #3 gives us the first digit of the series.

. 3 . . . .

With clue #1 and clue #2, you can infer that 3 = 1 + 2. With the sixth digit as the only place for even, you now have the sequence:

. 3 . . 1 2

Clue #4 gives you the 4th digit. 5 - 3 = 2

. 3 . 5 1 2

Clue #5 and 6 gives you the last 2. With clue #5, you had only two possibilities: 9 and 7. Knowing that the first digit is the largest number, it became this:

9 3 7 5 1 2

Out of these 7 clues, clue #4 is the most annoying. It is the clue that you need to solve the riddle, and it is a changeable clue, making it very important to be the first one to get the clue. Not only that, it has another riddle embedded into it if you are not careful. For if you read the clue, it says:

2-4 = 6. This is technically not true, for it is really the |2 - 4| = 6, where it is possible for 4-2=6, and 2-4=6. The wolves got caught on that, and it went downhill for them. More details on that later.

----------------------------------------------

Everyone's moves:

Night 1:

1. Eternaly_Lost [Magician] – room 1 - clue #4 (refrige)
2. Soul Rider [Trained Monkey] – room 8 – seer 8 (taken from room 8)
3. Im lost [Tightrope walker] – room 6 - no clue, no item, Thansal has it.
4. Xentor [Fire breather] – room 2 – scalpel taken (item)
5. Nightstalker [Security]
6. Faskalia [RingMaster]
7. Thansal [Strong man] – room 6 - clue #6
8. doomchica [Small Booth Vendor]
9. Kassinger [Giftshop Vendor]
10. Petco [Security]
11. Isamil [Clown]
12. Ana [Blind Costume Designer]
13. TheFeniX [Security] – room 4 - clue #1

TheFenix seered EternalyLost
Wolves used transparent minds on im lost
Xentor found scalpal

Night 2, doomchica lynched

1. Eternaly_Lost [Magician] – room 2 – clue #3
2. Soul Rider [Trained Monkey] – room 1 – no clue
3. Im lost [Tightrope walker] – room 3 – clue #5
4. Xentor [Fire breather] – room 1 – clue #4 (messed up)
5. Nightstalker [Security] - ??
6. Faskalia [RingMaster] – room 5 – clue #2
7. Thansal [Strong man] – room 9 - nothing
8. doomchica [Small Booth Vendor] - dead
9. Kassinger [Giftshop Vendor] - ?? - room 1
10. Petco [Security] – room 5 - nothing
11. Isamil [Clown] – room 10 (dead)
12. Ana [Blind Costume Designer] – room 5 – item – magnifying glass
13. TheFeniX [Security] – room 4 – clue #1

Wolves killed Isamil (psychic).
Im lost guarded uh.... someone (forgot)
TheFenix seered Soul Rider.
Wolves used transparent minds on TheFenix, sees his notes.
Wolves didn't guard a body
Xentor worked on doomchica's body.

Night 3, Kassinger instalynched

1. Eternaly_Lost [Magician] – room 7 – item - seer 8
2. Soul Rider [Trained Monkey] – room 9 -- nothing
3. Im lost [Tightrope walker] – room 5 - nothing
4. Xentor [Fire breather] – room 9 - nothing -- 937518 (closest attempt in guessing!)
5. Nightstalker [Security] – room 5 - clue #2
6. Faskalia [RingMaster] – room 4 – clue #1
7. Thansal [Strong man] – room 10 - nothing
8. Petco [Security] – room 7 – clue #7
9. Ana [Blind Costume Designer] – ??
10. TheFeniX [Security] – room 5 – dead – nothing

Wolves killed TheFenix
Wolves used transparent minds on TheFenix again to see who he seered. This is valid, so they saw who he seered and then killed him.
Im lost guarded Soul Rider.
Wolves guarded Kassinger's body.
Xentor worked on Isamil's body (found out the psychic)

Night 4, Eternaly_lost instalynched.

2. Soul Rider [Trained Monkey] – room 1 – garbled clue #3
3. Im lost [Tightrope walker] – room 7 - dead
4. Xentor [Fire breather] – room 7 – seer 8 ball from Eternaly_lost
5. Nightstalker [Security] – ??
6. Faskalia [RingMaster] – room 6 - clue #6
7. Thansal [Strong man] – ?? -- 937514 (another close attempt!)
8. Petco [Security] – ??
9. Ana [Blind Costume Designer] – ??

Wolves killed im lost
Im lost guarded Soul Rider
Wolves didn't guard any body.
Xentor looked into Kassinger.

Night 5, game ended, Thansal instalynched.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">3. My views and other views</span>

Wolves choose transparent minds. Day 1 they used it on im lost to secure a puesdo seer network. At first, it was interesting because they manage to find a role, but the role was the only one that no effect on transparent minds!

Then at night, they wolved Isamil. I still have no idea, but they manage to kill of the psychic, the only one that could confirm they had 3 wolves. I was pretty sure Isamil didn't say anything about it, so the kill seems random. Then they transparent minds.... TheFenix.

At this point, I thought the wolves won. They found the seer, killed the psychic, and made the guardian as part of their seer network. They even were able to spy who the seer looked into (both im lost and Soul Rider), giving them a terrible advantage. What did the seer have? The seer manage to seer Eternaly_lost in day 1.

So day 3 rolls around, and Soul rider wanted to end the day early, and so did the wolves. Soul Rider and im lost knew at this point there was a fake seer, so they were trying confirm each other that they were human. The wolves wanted to end the day early because they got 5 clues, and were able to get the artifact. So it was a win-win situation... until clue #4 with the absolute value hit them in the face. They guessed it wrong.

At this point, the wolves couldn't recover. They put everything into getting the artifact, and nothing left to go for. If I didn't add that absolute value stuff in the clue, I believe the wolves would have gotten the artifact, kill im lost or soul rider at day, then im lost at night. Then it would have been wolves' game.

So, the game hinged in my opinion on the wolves missing on the clue, which one claims to be bad and ambiguous. I'm really sorry about that, which is why I feel that the humans didn't really deserve the win, even though they really did a very good job catching up.

The wolves were always one step ahead of the humans. What brought them behind was the clue. And for that, I'm very very sorry.

In the end, it was very hard to decide who would win. Humans did a really good job catching up despite the wolves had a strangle on all their more powerful roles (even though they had no idea). Because of the early seer on the wolf, Xentor and Soul Rider trusted each other to an extent. Because of the seer contacting Soul Rider, Soul Rider and im lost figure out there was a fake seer going on. With those two, it's really hard for Thansal and Eternaly_lost to not get labelled wolf sooner or later. They just place on their bets on getting the artifact and using it before anyone got wiser. It didn't work out as planned.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">4. Analysis</span>
Despite the major and minor stepback, I think the game went relatively well. I don't think I'll host again (since so far everytime I've done there's always a major mistake), but the powers were used as I expected. I really didn't expect transparent minds to be used to start off a seer network, so hats off to Thansal for the idea. Hats off to TheFenix in being lucky of finding a wolf in the first night, or else humans would have a very bad time even competiting with the wolves.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">5. Issues</span>
Several issues came up. The first one is the use of code and the anonymous rule. To me, I actually don't mind this too much, but I see one problem with it. I've talk to several people already about it, and I've heard their opinion. To me, there is really one issue that I see the problem is, and it is this scenario:

Soul Rider (using him as an example) write in code that me (Theslan) is a wolf. He sends it to everyone. Then he sends (Thansal) the key. I (Theslan), kills Soul Rider at night. Thansal releases the key during the day. Now everyone can believe Soul Rider's message because a) He's dead at night, making him probably human, b) it is his message, since it is coded and can't be tamper with, and c) me (Theslan) had no way to counter it, because it is his writing and I cannot tamper with the code.

Basically, it's a message from the grave, with 100% accuracy that it's from Soul Rider. I see it being useful with PMs, where people can confirm, but for general public? I don't think so.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">6. Hosting</span>
I'm accepting PMs right now for any game anyone wants to run. I'll keep it open until Sunday, where I'll post the selection.

im_lost · July 2007

For the chat within the seer network, see <a href="http://twg.isa-geek.com/TWG.xiv/index.php" target="_blank">http://twg.isa-geek.com/TWG.xiv/index.php</a>, now allowing guest access. One of the things you'll notice is that, when we realized the clue could have had the word [difference] instead of [sum], Xentor pretty quickly pointed out all of the possibilities, that the fourth digit could be bigger than the second. It was a bit tricky, but we figured it out without even being sure that the word was supposed to be "difference" (at least, as far as we could with our clues), so it wasn't impossible.

Also, I'm planning on creating a new thread for the FAQ, history, and awards to replace Freak83's thread (since he isn't around to maintain it any more. I've already got it ready in a text file, so I'll post it later tonight if nobody has any objections (and then get Comprox to rearrange the stickies).

And the night that TheFeniX died, I protected Soul Rider instead. I didn't realize there was any reason for TheFeniX to be killed. There were at least two different times during the night when I almost sent Theslan a PM to change my mind on that.

I also very nearly told Thansal I was the guardian after he "checked" me. Luckily I was paranoid. I didn't even tell the real seer group I was the guardian until after the seer died.

Xentor · July 2007

Heh, you'll find most of the goodies in the forum link im_lost posted. I was basically the sleeper in the "real" seer network. I got the scalpel the first night, which didn't help much at first, but, well, I'll get to that.

Right from the start, Soul_Rider's little assumption was bugging me, but I suppose that was a good thing, because it got both of us talking enough for the next incident to build sufficient trust to network.

So, night two, I scalped doomchica (She was the only corpse so far), and found she was a normal human. Not a huge surprise there. I figured I might as well get the info out there, so I posted as a proxy to myself (Ya know technically, every word of that statement was true, even though it was a half-lie). I figured some people would see through it, but that I wasn't enough of a threat to be a wolf target.

Anyway, that was the day Soul_Rider messaged me. He didn't seer me, but he had a nice trick. He knew Eternaly_Lost was a wolf, and that he had gotten the clue from the Manager's Trailer on night one. Soul and I both searched that room on night two, so he made the assumption that the wolves would be too coordinated to search for the same clue twice. At first, I thought he was messing with me, because my nighttime PM said that im_lost was in the room with me, but I contacted Theslan and he corrected it. Soul_Rider was telling the truth. I didn't trust him yet, but it was better than nothing.

I forget exactly when they showed me the network forum, but after I read through all of the crap on there, I was mostly convinced, and I let them know I had the scalpel. Nothing big, but hey, it helps.

Night three, I scalped Isamil and found our dead psychic. Not exactly good news, but from that point, I was 100% with Soul_Rider's network.

Can't say I played much of a role in this game, but eh, I did my part.

Petco · July 2007

I didn't really do much, kudos to the players who figured everything out.

Wolves, very nice use of the transparent minds. I was a little close minded when thinking of the usefulness of the wolf powers, killing off a seer early is very powerful though I still feel that the "Mark of wolf" conversion ability is still the most useful and most powerful in almost all situations.

The reason being is it was sort of luck that the seer found a wolf on the first day and voted against a wolf, and the wolf using transparent on the seer(TheFeniX) instead of Isamil(Who also voted against E_lost the first day).

Having one less human and one more wolf would mean victory to the wolves after night 3, which means humans only have 3 days to kill a wolf.

Thansal · July 2007

So, here we go.

We knew we probably would have a better chance with conversion instead of TM. However, here is our reasoning on TM:

1) much easier to set up a false seer network if we know we didn't just tell the seer that I am the seer.

2) With false seer network MUCH easier to get clues outta people.

3) It is just more fun.

On the note of the ambiguous clue:
The statement: "The Difference between X and Y" is X-Y = Difference, not X-Y OR Y-X.

With the 5 clues the wolves had:
First digit is Largest
2nd-4th = 6th
6th is the only even
all digits are different
2nd digit = 3

The only answers were:
935172
OR
937152

ELost and I sent those in on Night 3 fully expecting to have a gun starting day 4.

Our plan was to get another human lynched day 4, kill 2 people night 5 and Win (we were going to wolf im_lost and shoot nightstalker, the people least likely to be guarded).

If one of us was going to get lynched Day 4 we would have used the gun at that point to end it early. As the game played out we would have:
1) Shot Soul day 4.
2) Wolfed im_lost night 5 (I knew he was suspicious of me through out the game, I also had a good feeling he was the guardian <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
3) Instalynched some one day 5 (Or at least ELost was sure that Night would have stayed with us through out this).

we were also planing on playing up the entire SEE! We killed some one day 4 and the game didn't end, OBVIOUSLY they are a wolf!

But, we didn't get the gun, Soul and im_lsot did a lot of good work together, the seer was stupidly lucky (again), and we lost.

Oh well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

I had a lot of fun this round!

My thoughts on balance:
1) I think the game is balanced in all honesty.
2) Seers just need to stop being so damn lucky.
3) I do like giving the wolves a few extra powers, it counters the lucky seer (to some degree) as well as making the game more interesting.

What I would like to see for the next game:
A Larger game, I think this will help wolves to some degree. However this requires us to be proactive in gettign new players. We have to drag people in from other communities (it worked great in the case of The Fenix).

I also like seeing the wolves having a range of possible powers, though we do have to be careful to not replicate ELost's game (Where the wolves were clearly overpowered <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)

Again, this was a wonderfully fun game.

I again want to congratulate im_lost, Soul, and The Fenix, all 3 did a great job this time around and did honestly earn their win (Aside from the lucky seer bit, but still <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)

Soul_Rider · July 2007

OK here's my Diary. It's abit jumpy, couldn't be bothered to patch it up properly. You'll also see some mad changes of mind as the game progresses...

<b>Night 1</b>

Nothing - Not a sausage, no-one is talking.....
Turns out my IRc is being stupid and didn't notify me I had been disconnected..

<b>Day 1</b>

An all action flurry today, well not really but here's some important first notes.

The topic of sharing information has come up and in a statement that took me completely by surprise, im_lost is against sharing of information!?!?!?

This guarantees wolves will get the clue first. 1st suspect?
Sent pM to TheFeniX about sharing info, he informs me that eternaly_lost has asked the same thing, but he hasn't yet done that publicly. Why does he not want anyone to know he is trying to sneakily collect clues? Possible 2nd suspect.
Real worries totalling up my posts and commenting on players, Isamil's behaviour concerns me, as does Xentor's. Now any of those could be a wolf, or
a role, but i am definitely interested in their activities.

Received another PM from TheFeniX, saying he thinks Eternaly_lost is being suspicious. Could be first game paranoia (I know I certainly suffered from that), but interesting nonetheless.

I was just beginning to formulate a plan, but it would be very risky and i don't know if I have the neccesary metal to pull it off.....

Shall I do a Saltzbad and launch a fake human seer? Not sure if i'm ready for that.. Will decide before the end of the day, but I would need to pull TheFeniX in on it to get it to work. Really not sure....

Started discussions on information sharing. very productive really...

im_lost and Thansal both in Red houses. clue for Thansal no item for im_lost (supposedly).
eternaly_lost alone - manager trailer - Fridge magnet clue.
Soul_Rider - alone - Community Centre - seer 8 ball.
TheFeniX - alone - In the museum: The sixth digit is the only even number.
Nightstalker - Circus - no search made, he didn't PM.
isamil - circus - No Search made.

Everyone I have spoken to seems to be relatively open. Just as i did in my first game, TheFenix is volunteering information that is not being requested, which helps us greatly. He can be nothing other than a new human.

Need more input... If i can get the other 2 to share their clue, i can possibly nail this and help a human win. Trouble is there are probably 4 wolves, and that means very likely they will have all clues by the end of the 3rd night, if not sooner.

TheFenix has just informed me he has told Isamil his clue. Not neccesarily a good or bad thing, but i have my own concerns over him at the moment. Really could have done without that.

Also with im_lost and Thansal searching the same room, this means that at least one of them is not a wolf, as 2 wolves would not search the same room.

Damn, all these dc's and incorrect file paths for logs means I have absolutely nothing to back up what has happened today. This could get very interesting...

Right going to bed now. Day 1 ends in 4 hours. 1 more thought before bed... Petco, how non descript has he been?

<b>Night 2</b>

Well that was unexpected. I have been seered by TheFeniX. New guy playing fake seer? that isn't going to happen, he's got enough to worry about. Apparently he seered eternally_lost first night, to be expected, and found he was a wolf.

Now what the hell do i do?

I spent all of last game wanting to be part of the seer network, now i find I am half of the seer network and a little at a loss.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[2007-07-16 21:30:20] <@Isamil> I'd like to know why e_lost hasn't said a word about the two votes against him.
</div>

Will try and provoke something from Isamil with a silly message.

Oh, it's my birthday by the way... Off to dinner at my mums soon, not much time..

doomchica (4) - Thansal, Soul_Rider, Nightstalker, Eternaly_lost
Eternally_lost is bandwagonning, I suspect at least 1 other wolf on here - Thansal is the most likely in my book.

e_lost and Thansal seemed well networked. my guess is im_lost is human, these two are wolves.

Will try and speak to im_lost.

Thansal knows that I belive that either him or im_lost is a wolf, but not both. If he suspects that i no longer believe im_lost to be a wolf i am dead.
Although with my map plan, i already feel i could be dead. BUT my map plan will either work for me or against me.

They will either see it as a useful tool, or they will see it as a danger and kill me.

Now i've really shot myself in the foot. Told thansal and e_lost i was going to stay in the community centre to check for a clue, but instead i've gone to the managers trailer in an attempt to get e_losts clue. If they learn this they will know i don't trust e_lost. it's amazing how your view of the game can change so quickly...

<b>Day 2</b>

Isamil is dead, well that confirmed his humanity, and eternaly_lost's wolfishness, unfortunately, that's not very helpful to me.....

How does it confirm it? Well Isamil was obviously human. He put pressure on e_lost publicly on the forum when voting for him, and in thansal's log from the #nstwg page. I believe this sealed his death warrant, and i feel is partly the fault of our seer going after the wolf before the network was ready. Hey, you win some you lose some, just feel sorry for Isamil.

Xentor searched the same room as me. This virtually guarantees him as human, as they wouldn't waste a wolf search on a clue they already have, unless he was hoping to find it and mix it up, but they know I have the seer 8-ball so....

Will bring Xentor into the network and try and encourage im_lost into the edges of it. I have advised TheFenix to seer im_lost tonight, he would be a massive ally. If i can get im_lost and xentor to help me kill e_lost, then we can make a call to the psycic too as long as he isn't dead.

TheFeniX has kept his deal with e_lost and they have shared clues. e_losts clue - E_Lost: The [sum] of the second and fourth digit [equals] [to] the [first] digit.

This may not be correct, i will confirm with Xentor. If i can get hold of him....

PM sent to Xentor telling him I know he has the clue from the managers trailer and asking him if he is willing to confirm my version of the clue as true or false.

I hope he will agree to this.

Nightstalker is falling between 2 stools, he's not searching, indicating a human, but he could be wolf bait, as e_lost is suggesting he is human.

Chatting with Xentor, but his PM says that im_lost was in the room with him, not me.. Oh dear. eventually he pretty much believes me, but sends a PM to theslan for confirmation.

Talking to im_lost about getting him to back me up in a wolf hunt (while talking to Xentor at the same time) for lynching and he drops a bombshell on me:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[02:11] <im_lost> here's the thing, i'm in contact with the seer
</div>

Now how about that for a humdinger.

A very good chat with Xentor. I trust him to be human and part of our network, so I had a long conversation with him about the seer issue im_lost had announced..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[02:10] <IamSoulRider> i'm lost advised he was in the circus last night.
[02:10] <Xentor> Interesting
[02:11] <IamSoulRider> with doomchica who was dead.
[02:17] <Xentor> You'll excuse me if I wait to hear it from Theslan <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
[02:17] <Xentor> Can't trust anyone
[02:17] <IamSoulRider> sure, no problem, but now i have a bigger one, and as i know i am telling the truth i will share this with you..
[02:18] <IamSoulRider> i am currently chatting to i'm_lost
[02:18] <IamSoulRider> who i am trying to recruit to vote off the wolf
[02:20] <Xentor> And who is this wolf? Eternally? I think you put him in the room before me, right?
[02:20] <IamSoulRider> i wondered how long that would take you to check..
[02:21] <Xentor> Didn't check... Remembered <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
[02:21] <Xentor> Actually, I checked as soon as I got the clue
[02:21] <Xentor> To see who might have changed it
[02:22] <IamSoulRider> sorry, let me finish what i was saying.. I'm chatting to i'mlost..
[02:22] <IamSoulRider> and he is apparently in contact with the seer..
[02:25] <Xentor> Interesting
[02:25] <Xentor> The plot thickens
[02:25] <IamSoulRider> yes, and doesn't get any easier to decipher..
[02:29] <Xentor> Perhaps... I'm putting pieces together <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
[02:33] <IamSoulRider> any help you can give me would be great as my head is going off on one..
[02:33] <IamSoulRider> tiredness and thinking not a great mix
[02:36] <Xentor> Kinda distracted, but isn't Fask voting strangely?
[02:36] <IamSoulRider> yes, i have pegged the follwing people...
[02:37] <IamSoulRider> e_lost, thansal, faskalia and possibly nightstalker.
[02:37] <IamSoulRider> although nightstalker is quite possibly human
[02:37] <IamSoulRider> information came from the wolf, pointing to nightstalker being human
[02:38] <IamSoulRider> so that means - a) he's trying to put a wolf in a safe area
[02:38] <IamSoulRider> b) i don't know what else actualy, my brain just died.
[02:39] <IamSoulRider> oh yeah, b) he is actually human..
[02:39] <IamSoulRider> lol, how could i forget that option..
[02:39] <Xentor> Heheh
[02:39] <Xentor> Sorry, tanking a Botanica run in warcraft at the moment, so very distracted
[02:39] <IamSoulRider> no problem.
[02:40] <IamSoulRider> i'm not going after e_lost today, too risky. Myself and i'm lost will get our seers to check each other, although he was our target anyway..
[02:40] <IamSoulRider> we will see what the result throws up.
[02:41] <IamSoulRider> uor seers to check me and him obviously..
[02:41] <IamSoulRider> not the seers check each other...
[02:41] <IamSoulRider> man my brain is dying i think i'll go and get some sleep, work in just over 3 hours..
[02:44] <IamSoulRider> theslan is checking his sent PM's for mistakes now..
[02:49] <IamSoulRider> Theslan has sent you PM's to confirm it was me in the room with you.
[02:49] <Xentor> Yep, he just did
[02:49] <Xentor> Then here's my info
[02:50] <Xentor> I have the scalpel
[02:50] <Xentor> That's about it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
[02:50] <Xentor> And doomchica was definitely a normal human
</div>

I VERY NEARLY pm'd a copy of the conversation between myself and im_lost to TheFenix, but thought better of it....

No need to get him worried as it is, and just like Saltzbad did, the one with all the knowledge controls the game...

Let's hope i'm not being led up the garden path. Although I almost let it slip to TheFeniX that i suspect im_lost of being the guardian....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[18:19] <TheFeniX_Work> yea, but I'm still worried.
[18:19] <TheFeniX_Work> I always look at the worst case.
[18:19] <TheFeniX_Work> I'll seer im_lost tonight.
[18:19] <TheFeniX_Work> but, there's nothing left in the museum
[18:19] <TheFeniX_Work> where should I move on to?
[18:19] <SoulRider> i am almost 100% certain im_lost is human, and if he is we will have everything wrapped up once we have sorted out this issue that i cannot yet tell you
[18:19] <SoulRider> about
[18:20] <TheFeniX_Work> I still thinl Thansal is a wolf.
[18:20] <TheFeniX_Work> but, I'll let you guys make those decisions.
[18:20] <SoulRider> i think he maybe too, but i'm not 100% on that. things will fall into place soon, don't worry
[18:20] <TheFeniX_Work> but, here's the upside: if I seer im_lost tonight, you ge the info ASAP
[18:21] <TheFeniX_Work> if I'm wolfed: you know everything I've said is ture.
[18:21] <TheFeniX_Work> true*
[18:21] <SoulRider> i hope you don't get wolfed
[18:21] <TheFeniX_Work> so it's win-win for you.
[18:21] <TheFeniX_Work> yea, me too.
[18:21] <SoulRider> It will be harder to win with a dead seer..
[18:21] <TheFeniX_Work> that's why I worked E_lost so hard, I want him to think I'm his patsy.
[18:22] <TheFeniX_Work> but, there's always the chance he's onto me.
[18:22] <TheFeniX_Work> and I doubt a guardian who isn't in our network would waste a save on a new player like me.
[18:22] <TheFeniX_Work> he'd see no reason to.
[18:22] <SoulRider> just be careful, your no1 priority is to stay alive
[18:23] <SoulRider> after tonights seering, if all goes well you may yet be guarded.
[18:23] <TheFeniX_Work> roger, what places do we know our network has not searched?
</div>

The sixth digit is the only even number
The [sum] of the second and fourth digit [equals] [to] the [first] digit.

The second and fourth numbers are ODD, as is 1st digit. That means the clue has been jumbled and is a fake, because 2 odd numbers added together ALWAYS make an even number. Damn. Must let TheFeniX and Xentor know.

I managed to convince im_lost that as we were both as sure as could be about each others humanity, we would share our clues and try and get the solution to the code today, then claim the artifact during night 3. I must thank e_lost at the end of the game for his total trusting of his RL friend TheFeniX, and TheFeniX for playing innocent newb so well to him. It appears that e_lost gave TheFeniX the clue with the words in [tags]. When im_lost got the clue he got it without the tags. Because of those tags we (well im_lost actually) were able to work out which word had been jumbled [first] should have read [sixth]. That's the only way the other clue i had can be true. Thankyou mr wolf <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. Unfortunately the 5 clues we've got have left us with 6 possible outcomes:

Clues:
The [sum] of the second and fourth digit [equals] [to] the [first] digit - We believe that shouldhave been [sixth] instead of first because of...
The sixth digit is the only even number
The first number is the largest in the sequence
No two digits have the same number
The second digit is 3

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(im_lost)</div><div class='quotemain'>
9 3 (5,7) 1 (7,5) 4
9 3 (1,7) 5 (7,1) 8
7 3 (5,7) 1 (7,5) 4

For the parentheses, it means using the first number of both parentheses or the second number of both. This assumes all of the clues are correct except the nonjumbled one, and the assumption that [first] is supposed to be [sixth] since second and fourth can't be moved.
</div>

We need just one more clue, then we should be able to decipher the code.

I've just realised. Now e_lost has the confirmation clue, he will know that TheFeniX knows the clue he gave us is a fake (well jumbled anyway) it was confirmed by xentor as the clue, meaning e_lost scrambled it. TheFeniX is now in danger. He has to hope he has convinced e_lost of his plain newb humaness or we will be without a seer very soon...

My brain works so much better when i'm awake....

9 3 (5,7) 1 (7,5) 4
9 3 (1,7) 5 (7,1) 8
7 3 (5,7) 1 (7,5) 4
is wrong

should be....

9 3 (5,7) 1 (7,5) 4
9 3 (1,7) 5 (7,1) 8
7 3 (5,9) 1 (9,5) 4

That means the clue...The first number is the largest in the sequence rules out the 3rd option... we only have 4 options, myself and im_lost can get the artifact tonight with my network!!!!!!

The 4 votes already on kassinger have given me a plan...

Here is my plan, and I will talk it through with im_lost as soon as he gets online, we could wrap this up very quickly.....

We cause an early instalynch and get im_lost seered. As soon as he is confirmed human we must set about convincing him of the honesty of our network and who not to trust.

Myself, im_lost, TheFeniX and xentor can then submit 1 clue each and claim the artifact. We can then get what information we can from im_lost regarding his network.

Petco still keeps bugging me in my head. Is he the pyschic or guardian, or a quiet wolf?

If i'm wrong about all this, it is going to be the funniest postgame diary in the world......

im_lost has agreed to the plan, but has warned me to be careful to make sure it doesn't backfire and i get voted off instead.

Instalynch succesfully launched, TheFeniX just reminded me - SEERS CURSE.

<b>Night 3</b>

I'm lost is human, decide to ignore the Seers curse possibility.

Now the hard part begins. Convincing him of our sincerity. I hope he does trust us. I need his help creating the code for my PM's.

Just thought i'd post this observation of mine while trying to convince im_lost of our honesty... I really did think Isamil was psychic on day 1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[21:16] <SoulRider> Unfortunately Isamil, being his normal reclusive protective self, wasn't as open with TheFeniX as me, so he seered me.
[21:17] <SoulRider> and thus our network was born.
[21:17] <SoulRider> I was trying to get Isamil in as I felt he might be the psychic, don't know why, rash indecision, unfortunately he was wolfed that night
[21:17] <SoulRider> which meant it was a good job i was seered and not him
[21:18] <SoulRider> that night i also approached you
[21:18] <SoulRider> then day 2 you know the story of very well
</div>

Well we have convinced him, now he has given us his Seer network. Oh Look What a surprise....

Thansal is the "Seer"
e_lost was "Seered"
NightStalker was "seered"

Have they put all their eggs in one basket?

Wonderfully crafted death PMs have been created. On the one hand i'd like to think they are never going to get used, on the other, it would be a shame to see them wasted.

Now we appear to have everything set.... we now wait for the day to begin.. loads more bits to mention, but to be honest, by this point i really need to direct you to our forums, which hopefully im_lost will open up for us:

Xentor has informed us Isamil was indeed the Psychic. Oh well. at least we still have the scalpel.

<b>Day 3</b>

The seer is dead. Decided to go for the jugular. im_lost is not around until sunday, his response will be the most difficult to fake since i am attacking his seer network.

Eternaly_lost has been lynched and there is now a big problem about the remaining wolves. We are only sure of Thansal now... Nightstalker is very likely human which points the finger pretty firmly at Ana, but hey, let's wait and see.

<b>Night 4</b>

im_lost has owned up to making a mistake. He protected me instead of the seer last night. He is the guardian. Oh well, it happens.

This is getting to be very hard work, but during a discussion with im_lost about how they were able to get both roles in the first 2 kils it hit me...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[19:35] <IamSoulRider> ###### i know how they got the psychic and the seer....
[19:35] <IamSoulRider> 3) Transparent minds (4): During the night, they can choose a player and listen into their minds. This could be the psychic/seer. Guardian is not affected
[19:35] <IamSoulRider> by this. They can only do this 4 times.
[19:35] <IamSoulRider> there are only 3 wolves
[19:36] <im_lost> you really think they picked both of the right people?
[19:36] <IamSoulRider> yes, look at my reasoning for why they went for them in the thread. THey thought if there is to votes, one of them is the seer.
[19:37] <IamSoulRider> TheFenix unwittingly convinced the psychic to try this, who thought it would be good because he would find out
[19:37] <IamSoulRider> they both tried to convince me to lynch him.
[19:37] <IamSoulRider> the wolves check Isamil first, found he was the pyschic so knocked him off
[19:38] <IamSoulRider> they then checked TheFenix night 2 and bang, both gone.
[19:38] <im_lost> night 3, you mean
[19:38] <im_lost> which would mean that they know he checked me
[19:38] <IamSoulRider> yeah, sorry, no wolf kill night 1
[19:39] <IamSoulRider> so the score is actually 6v3
</div>

We need a way to guarantee a save....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
[20:27] <SoulRider> [20:25] <IamSoulRider> I know what i am going to do.
[20:27] <SoulRider> [20:26] <IamSoulRider> I am going to send a PM to thansal advising we know they used transparent minds, so he knows i know he is the wolf.
[20:27] <SoulRider> [20:26] <IamSoulRider> I will not send out a death PM, so he will think it is safe to go after me
[20:27] <SoulRider> then you can protect me.
[20:27] <SoulRider> and we should get a save hopefully.
[20:28] <im_lost> send it later in the night then
[20:28] <im_lost> don't give them too much time to prepare a daytime argument
[20:30] <SoulRider> I need to send it early enough that they know i am not sending out the PM and that I am a good target.
[20:30] <SoulRider> I'll congratulate him on a good game...
</div>

here it is....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
You played very well. It really was an interesting decision to take transparent minds, but it seems to have paid off quite well for you in the end.

I'm not going to send out a death PM now, after all with only 2 of you left, and you going tomorrow there hardly seems any point.

I was wondering why the 4th wolf was so hard to find. It's because there isn't one. Well played guys. It was just bad luck about e_lost being seered first night, it sort of broke the game for you.
</div>

Made some other PM's to some of the semi-inactive players to get some information out of them.

<b>Day 5</b>

im_lost dead, well so much for the guardian save....

Got a reply which kind of shocked me...

All the way I have acted in this game to get information has been just that, doing something to get a reaction. Whatever I have deemed the neccesary response, I have taken the relevant action to cause that response. My final PM to Thansal was supposed to make him want to wolf me because of apparent over confidence and arrogance, but that's part of game, it was supposed to generate a response ingame. People aren't supposed to take these things as me, they are not me..

Posted up all the info. Whatever happens now is up to the other players...

im_lost · July 2007

The missing info in Theslan's post is that I guarded Soul Rider night 2. I protected him every night, so he was never in danger of being wolfed. I did this even before I had a reason to think Thansal was the fake seer, because I didn't see any threat to Thansal. The same way I didn't see any threat to TheFeniX when he died, I guess.

Ana · July 2007

I missed out on so much in this game because of my busy schedule. It makes me sad that I let down the other wolves. ._. This was kinda fun, and it turned out pretty funky. Who ended up winning though?

Edit: Just checked the topic. Good job, humans~

TWG XIV: Mystery at Rockyford - Postgame

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