Ns_Nexus_v2 Released!
StixNStonz
Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">the minimap doesnt suck anymore!</div>**Final Release, Version 2:
-minimap was 'zoomed in'; fills the screen a LOT more now (screenshot shown <a href="http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/177/nsnextest6j0000yo7.jpg" target="_blank"><u>here</u></a>)
-de-cluttered the minimap by hiding the vents that overlapped the main hallways
-added a new vent to Docking Wing to help aliens counter siege (thanks Stupid)
-fixed a sinking structure spot in Docking Wing (thanks Quick & Easy)
-fixed an exploit in Mag Pump weldable (to screw up the pumps' movement) (thanks Scaryface)
-fixed Slug Room siege (thanks Scaryface)
-moved Mag Pump siege slightly so 4 sieges can now fit (though its tight)
-lowered Engineering zapper damage from 500 to 100; now takes 2 hits to kill lerks/marines
-elevator damage reduced significantly
-fixed a spawn in Port Hive that didnt work for MC'ing/redeeming onos (thanks Kama)
-added a touch more ceiling architecture to MS
Download <a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/downloads/files/index.php?dir=natural-selection/maps/ns/&file=ns_nexus_v2.rar" target="_blank"><u>here!</u></a>
That addresses just about every complaint and suggestion ive heard over the last month <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. Feedback always welcome. Hope you enjoy!
-minimap was 'zoomed in'; fills the screen a LOT more now (screenshot shown <a href="http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/177/nsnextest6j0000yo7.jpg" target="_blank"><u>here</u></a>)
-de-cluttered the minimap by hiding the vents that overlapped the main hallways
-added a new vent to Docking Wing to help aliens counter siege (thanks Stupid)
-fixed a sinking structure spot in Docking Wing (thanks Quick & Easy)
-fixed an exploit in Mag Pump weldable (to screw up the pumps' movement) (thanks Scaryface)
-fixed Slug Room siege (thanks Scaryface)
-moved Mag Pump siege slightly so 4 sieges can now fit (though its tight)
-lowered Engineering zapper damage from 500 to 100; now takes 2 hits to kill lerks/marines
-elevator damage reduced significantly
-fixed a spawn in Port Hive that didnt work for MC'ing/redeeming onos (thanks Kama)
-added a touch more ceiling architecture to MS
Download <a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/downloads/files/index.php?dir=natural-selection/maps/ns/&file=ns_nexus_v2.rar" target="_blank"><u>here!</u></a>
That addresses just about every complaint and suggestion ive heard over the last month <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. Feedback always welcome. Hope you enjoy!
Comments
One thing I ran across is the vent in Coordinate mapping is really really hard to get into as a skulk (coming in from the top of the vertical shaft to the actual room). Either that or me and my lag were failing......
As I mentioned before, I still don't really like the density of hiding spots being a little erratic at times, and the granular nature of the map instead of a more free flowing fluid map are still detractors in my eyes. I realize you like very precise siege points (as an example), but I prefer to not search you and your map for your ideas of good spots and would rather make my own, as it were. That's part of strategy, being able to attack from different ways depending on the situation, and I personally feel this map restricts players too much on this front.
Also, as I noted in game, sometimes different areas feel too apart. You usually gain an entire room, and what happens there stays there. There's very distinct chokepoints that make or break pathways to the majority of the map (Railgun comes to mind as does Residential Block). The top stays separate from the bottom, as well. I guess it's a bit of a requirement due to the height issue, but more options and continuity would be appreciated (it's a looong walk down View halls with the reward of Engineering, but no Chromo). Also, inherent from the pyramid structure, each apex feels a little pinched access wise as your paths are forced to converge. Especially Chromo and essentially only 2 major paths to get to it, albeit from opposite sides. But that's what PGs are for.
Also, it felt like there were lots of good ambush spots, but they were either too far apart or a bit out of the way in the big open rooms. And most of the map is fairly large, open rooms. I'd like to see them a bit more spread out so we don't have to hunt for them. Clutter in rooms is the easiest solution, but I'm sure you can do better. =] Even simple hallways could have a bit more cover and spice, like in ns_altair.
Other than that, major kudos on the "little details" that I'm so horrible at, and major points for the innovative idea. Keep at it, and I'm sure this can go far. Just let people get over their "zomg, a new map, ew" phase.
For whatever reason (and it seems like this is a general feeling, not just my own, since i have a bias), it feels like Nexus is different from normal maps. Maybe its because of the pyramid layout, or the added effort to make it actually feel like a ship, or the comparatively huge amount of detail room-by-room, or even the extra number of route options... but its probably all of it put together.
And it does feel different from other maps, despite the fact that we can directly compare it to others. You mention...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's very distinct chokepoints that make or break pathways to the majority of the map (Railgun comes to mind as does Residential Block)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And i know that it feels like this, even when i'm in-game. But Res Block can be easily avoided by going from Logistics to Port Shaft, or from Nexus to View Halls and then to Port Shaft. And then, Port Shaft can go into Res block, or you can continue down to Docking Wing; hence theres two full routes to avoid double yet still go exactly where you want to go.
And Railgun; It gives access to Keystone and Mag Pump, but you can also get into Keystone from the right-side View Hall. Its true that you cant get to Mag Pump without going through Railgun, but a tricky marine would probably realize that most alien lame in Railgun is right by the entrance, by the RT. As such, a marine who got into Keystone from View Halls could then just go straight into Railgun, entering from the middle, and continue on to Mag Pump with likely little resistance.
I basically designed the map to have a ton of strategic options. I wanted there to be 'fake' chokepoints; areas that would often turn into chokepoints simply due to the way most players want to go, but that they would always actually have other options and routes should they wish, and should they know the map. Heck, look at the vent system! Theres TONS of ways to access it. You can even get into the vents from the Shaft if you're good, or Keystone, or even Coordinate Mapping. Plus all the hives have marine access to the vents.
Its true that <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The top stays separate from the bottom<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but, the 'top' is a hive area. In Veil, doesnt the two siege areas around Cargo 'stay separate' from the siege areas around Pipe and Sub? Sure, they have System Waypointing and The Dome that kindof connect the two; but they stay separate. Its the same thing in Nexus, its just that the layout completely screws with what we're used to. I've been playing NS for almost 4 years now, and I thought about this map a LOT before i even started building it in Hammer. I drew up tons of plans, and thought up and figured out how i could make this pyramid layout work... but its still pretty crazy compared to what I/we are used to.
You talk about the ambush spots, but I dont really know what you're saying <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. Every room has ambush potential all over the place; take any random room and check out the walls, the ceiling, the random clutter that blocks marines' view from a certain angle. I'm a big fan of things being in Plain Sight, which hold a lot more meaning or use than most people will think of right off the bat. Heck, you want to see some really crazy ambush spots? Go check out the ceiling of Coordinate Mapping. Check it closely. THOSE are great examples of optical illusions, from a ground-based player, that perfectly camouflage ambush spots.
I understand what you mean by the siegeing. Keep in mind though that most siege locations for normal maps have a specific set up, regardless of whether it was intentional or not: theres always the siege spots that 'work', and the siege spots that are *optimal*. The Cargo siege in Veil; sure you could put your TF and sieges right against the wall beside the door, but the optimal layout is to have the TF tucked in the corner, around the corner. This optimal siege has its own drawbacks (easier gassing from lerks), but the payoff is worth it in terms of extra distance the skulks have to cover. All siege locations have a setup like this; spots that work, and then the one or two best spots.
Nexus follows this formula, just that i put a bit more thought and effort into it. Starboard can be sieged from the door to Slug Room, or that small area between the hive and the H2O tank... but there's the much more interesting siege found in Mag Pump. Or, a marine can ninja weld the Manual Override, and you can siege from the H2O tank (which itself has two vents). Port Hive's optimal siege is in Docking Wing, but you can also siege from Cargo Transfer, or the same two other sieges (mirrored) as Starboard. Chromo can be sieged from both sides, but you can get a bit creative with how you do it from both sides (and i've yet to see someone pull off the 'optimal' siege from the Shaft <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />)
Its a messy business, for sure. But when you dont iron out these things, you get impossible-to-siege Sewer Hive's (Caged), or ridiculously unbalanced U-Turn Siege (Mineshaft).
Thats quite a rant. I wonder if anyone will even read it, let alone be able to follow everything i said <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. I probably shouldve posted a screenshot with the labelled minimap to help.
Still an incredible map, with tons of cool features (erm, haven't see the core in engineering, 30 res wasted <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> )
I'll talk about aesthetic here, I think the gameplay is really good.
TEXTURES IN GENERAL :
The texture usage is imo average (I already said that). I don't know why, but it's a thing I don't like in your map. Maybe it's the lightning, but I don't catch it.
You have too much different textures, if I were you, I'd stick to a precise scheme. The textures of bast/agora are really cool for a "Alien-ish" spaceship (maybe the nos_ prefix is here for something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ).
For example, the teck floors on walls are just, erm, ugly. Logistics floor is a bit stretched, and the texture isn't the best I think.
INFESTATION : It's really better now, though I think you could use more infestation in all the three hives, especially Chromo, which is a bit empty. That could provides some covers (look at Airlock Hive in ns_shiva, for example).
VENTS TEXTURING : That cables texture is a bit strange in those vents, I'd remove it if I were you. The lightning is cool here, 'nuff to say.
I spotted the same skybug as I mentioned before. Get to View Halls and look to Port Shaft. You'll see the bottom of Port Shaft in space (plus the nebula is here, so it's really weird, and need to be fixed).
Keep it up, you have an incredible map here <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Comm, whereabouts would you think this vent would go to/from? I'm guessing you'd thinking a non-marine-accessible vent, maybe leading into Keystone? Theres also the option of a high-up vent that falls into the huge vent system, right next to the Keystone exit... that might help with the sieges (though it does seem pretty balanced already, plus skulks can easily already use the keystone vent exit, if they know the map).
Your suggestion?
First off, it still feels very pinched at the choke points. I know that natural chokepoints will exist, but this is how I see it. From most locations, there's 3 other major locations we'd like to get to. Hive to Hive, or MS, etc. However, there is always three other objectives from any one location. Railgun and Res Block happen to give access to three of these locations within reasonable distances, making them pseudo centers of the map. Much like a relocation between two Hives in most maps. Fortunately, they're very very far now from the last objective, a nice feature.
Also, I realize there's plenty of ways to get around. However, not all of them are very friendly. For example, as I previously noted, View Halls bypasses alot of dirty areas, and your gain is Engineering. Lucky you, you now have direct access to two Hives. However, you're really really far from Cromo and Marine Start. It's a choke of 2 major locations, not 3 like Rail and Res Block. Also, just because people COULD get into the extensive and awesome vents as Marines, doesn't always mean people have the strafe jumping awesomeness to do it. This is a map screaming JP rush, which I must admit is a nice change of pace.
I also see your argument for granular nature in all maps. What I was vying for was that it feels extra large due to the layout. By taking one location, you tend to alienate yourself from another spot. Sure this is in general true, but it always feels like you're on the edge of the map (which I guess is by design with the whole pyramid thing) and ground that you've gained is very tenuously held together. I guess it's something that I'll just have to get used to.
Anyways, I'll probably poke at this again after a few games with less ######s.
With the normal, 2-d diamond shaped maps, you can drop a pg anywhere in the 'center of the diamond', i.e. anywhere in the middle of the map, and have access to a whole lot of space.
With the pyramid layout, a PG anywhere in the middle of the map isnt necessarily actually in the middle. You have to pick your positions a lot more carefully, because the vertical aspect... which is not seen at all in 2-d diamond maps... has a huge impact. And if you look at a 2-d diamond versus a 3-d pyramid, theres a lot more 'edge space' on the pyramid. Its interesting how it actually translates as such to gameplay.