I can completely understand your POV which is certainly heavily influenced by the fact that you are a game developer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
But buying games is nowadays a real pain in the ass.
My current process of buying a game looks like this: -See advert, get recommendation, see magazine article. -Gather additional information about the game -Visit the official forums to determine how many bugs there, how many hardware issues exist -Rent the game at my local video store €1,60 per day (german version <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />) -Play the game a little bit to make sure that the game play is good and that there are no hardware issues -Create a image of the game and look for a crack online -Test weather the game can be installed from the image and played with the crack -Delete image, uninstall game (I don't want the bad synchrod german version) -Go to okaysoft.de and order an import version €40-€50 -Wait up to a week, depending on weather they have the game in stock or not -When the game arrives I create an image of it, take the disc out of the drive and put the game safely away <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Then I install from the image and use the crack to play. This allows me to keep my games in near mint condition.
I would certainly buy MORE games, if I did not have to do all that testing an stuff.
An example of what makes me more likely to buy a game: -Multi language version. Beeing able to install the game in english right away is a great+ (too bad that most games dont have multilanguage version written anywhere and the dvd box, even if they are multilanguage.
-No copy protection. I dont want to keep my dvd in the drive all the time. So no copy protection is something that makes me extremely happy. (Great example: Heart of Iron II)
-No cut content. (Living in germany you often see cut version over here in order to dodge the index)
-Polished gold version, no bugs, awesome gameplay etc etc...
All in all, the reason I pirate games is simple. I don't enjoy gaming anymore. I pirate game after game after game trying to find one I enjoy, but I never do. I'd be out thousands of dollars without any enjoyable gameplay to show for it if I didn't pirate-test games. Maybe I'm just grown out of gaming.
Also, THEM, what about old games like Lucasarts adventure games? Out of production, expensive on eBay, and nobody gets royalties for them anymore.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The quality isn't as good as the actual release,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's absolutely no difference between an ISO and a CD, seeing as an ISO is the CD. Honestly, though, if a company puts out a game that doesn't deserve my time to play even a free, pirated game, why should they ever get my $60? It's all the same in the end, except I'm not shelling out a huge chunk of change for something that won't get touched anyway. Download it, install it, play for 30 minutes, and uninstall. I'd save more time just downloading demos and get the same amount of gameplay. The ONLY game in the past 4 years I've looked forward to is Portal, which I'll be buying. Strange, people buy good games? Whoa~
<!--quoteo(post=1633871:date=Jun 16 2007, 08:24 PM:name=enf0rcer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enf0rcer @ Jun 16 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]1633871[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->piracy is a crime of convenience. Torrents completely detach my morals from the realism of the theft. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->QFT. ... Plus, here in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_sharing_in_Canada" target="_blank">Canada</a> downloading copyrighted material for private use is <b>not</b> illegal (only uploading/distributing it is), so it makes it even easier to detach myself, not to mention the "Robin Hood" effect playing into all of this.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1633874:date=Jun 16 2007, 06:37 PM:name=T_h_e_m)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T_h_e_m @ Jun 16 2007, 06:37 PM) [snapback]1633874[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>Moral response:</b> That's BS. Get a (first/second/third/fourth/....) job if you want it and can't afford it. Ever drank a soda or ate some junk food while pirating/playing that media? Ever made an impulse buy in the last few months? Does your wardrobe contain more than 2 pairs of each of the bare essentials and some work clothes? You seem to own a computer hooked up to a broadband connection. How come you can afford any/all of that? This is morally unacceptable. <b>Legal Response:</b> Illegal. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The last purchase I've made was an Electric Bass, and that was half a year ago. I hardly spend the little I have since most games suck now and the games I'd want to buy don't have demos. Plus something like The Sims 2 has so many expansions it costs around $150+ to get everything, and for a game I play every now and then, that's total BS. A lot of games aren't even worth the price tag they have on the shelves and they never go down.
<!--quoteo(post=1633940:date=Jun 17 2007, 01:40 AM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Jun 17 2007, 01:40 AM) [snapback]1633940[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The last purchase I've made was an Electric Bass, and that was half a year ago. I hardly spend the little I have since most games suck now and the games I'd want to buy don't have demos. Plus something like The Sims 2 has so many expansions it costs around $150+ to get everything, and for a game I play every now and then, that's total BS. A lot of games aren't even worth the price tag they have on the shelves and they never go down.
Plus it's the internet, there are no morals. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you don't agree with the price of a game, then you don't play it. If you thought the bass was too much it wouldn't be right to steal it; it's no different with computer games.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
edited June 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1633935:date=Jun 17 2007, 01:04 AM:name=Testament)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Testament @ Jun 17 2007, 01:04 AM) [snapback]1633935[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All in all, the reason I pirate games is simple. I don't enjoy gaming anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you considered that you don't enjoy it because it's free (has no value) from your point of view?
<!--quoteo(post=1633933:date=Jun 17 2007, 12:43 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 17 2007, 12:43 AM) [snapback]1633933[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can completely understand your POV which is certainly heavily influenced by the fact that you are a game developer<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've held the opinion that piracy is wrong longer than I've been working as a game developer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you considered that you don't enjoy it because it's free (has no value) from your point of view? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That logic put me out a few hundred dollars a while back. A game shouldn't be made good by your fear of making a bad purchase, it should be good because it's good.
I always buy a game, but never software that costs $200+, you dont need that much money for some code. Photoshop and 3dsmax would be more widely purchased if it dropped to a price that the average joe could afford with a bit out of a weeks affordable cash.
<!--quoteo(post=1634121:date=Jun 18 2007, 01:02 AM:name=Drfuzzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drfuzzy @ Jun 18 2007, 01:02 AM) [snapback]1634121[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I always buy a game, but never software that costs $200+, you dont need that much money for some code. Photoshop and 3dsmax would be more widely purchased if it dropped to a price that the average joe could afford with a bit out of a weeks affordable cash. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, the ammount of coding time that goes into those programs will often earn it's price. Also, many of those businesses wouldn't be able to stay afloat if they sold it for $50 a pop, since the market is so small. Also, 3dsmax is used to make multi-million dollar animations and such, so with those kinds of potential profits I think it's pretty reasonable to ask for $3k.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1633968:date=Jun 17 2007, 09:02 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 17 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]1633968[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you don't agree with the price of a game, then you don't play it. If you thought the bass was too much it wouldn't be right to steal it; it's no different with computer games. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If I don't agree with the price I'll throw my money down for two DS games and download the game I was intending to get or wait for a price drop. PC games don't have the replay value, linear gameplay and a lot of crappy multiplayer is not worth $60.
Instruments are way to much, especially since it's just a hobby, so I stick with the cheap ones until what I have breaks down.
<!--quoteo(post=1634051:date=Jun 17 2007, 03:06 PM:name=T_h_e_m)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T_h_e_m @ Jun 17 2007, 03:06 PM) [snapback]1634051[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Have you considered that you don't enjoy it because it's free (has no value) from your point of view? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, if I have to throw money down for something to be able to enjoy it, it's a piece of crap.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1634133:date=Jun 18 2007, 12:05 AM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Jun 18 2007, 12:05 AM) [snapback]1634133[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PC games don't have the replay value, linear gameplay and a lot of crappy multiplayer is not worth $60.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know your opinion would change if piracy were simply not an option. If they're so crappy, why not just try giving up pirating them completely? Stop playing your existing pirated copies, and stop pirating new ones. You can still stay true to your opinion that PC games aren't worth the money. And you'll be slightly less of a criminal.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1634144:date=Jun 18 2007, 12:44 AM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Jun 18 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]1634144[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->T h e m. Stop being philosophical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Staying legal is not philosophy. It's good citizenship.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1634142:date=Jun 18 2007, 01:38 AM:name=T_h_e_m)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T_h_e_m @ Jun 18 2007, 01:38 AM) [snapback]1634142[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I know your opinion would change if piracy were simply not an option. If they're so crappy, why not just try giving up pirating them completely? Stop playing your existing pirated copies, and stop pirating new ones. You can still stay true to your opinion that PC games aren't worth the money. And you'll be slightly less of a criminal. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It wouldn't change, in fact I only have 2 pirated games on my system. I have plenty of ROMs though... of games I already own. I don't want to hook the N64 up to play them. And one of the games on here is for my girlfriend to play.
Most of the games I pirate don't even stay on the system long enough to be beaten and some didn't even run. And I was planning on getting them. They're just boring, aka Fallout 2. But I keep giving games a chance to see if they're worth the money.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1634157:date=Jun 18 2007, 01:21 AM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Jun 18 2007, 01:21 AM) [snapback]1634157[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It wouldn't change, in fact I only have 2 pirated games on my system. ...
Most of the games I pirate don't even stay on the system long enough to be beaten and some didn't even run. And I was planning on getting them. They're just boring, aka Fallout 2. But I keep giving games a chance to see if they're worth the money. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well hey, it sounds like you'd have no problem going 100% legal. Why not give it a try?
So basically, stop gaming? That's what most of us in this situation do. I know I stopped gaming for over two years and only picked it up again to try new ######. It still fails.
That said, it hardly matters either way. Games suck and I hardly have morals. I stole my copy of NWN from a store. If I didn't pirate, I probably wouldn't have been able to play any games until last year when I was able to work, anyway. Growing up in a family that can't afford clothes does that. Hard to afford $60 for a game. Really, though, debating over it is dumb. If you really think you're pirating for some good you're dumb. You're just cheap and angry like me.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
As an interesting point/question, there are many, many music videos available for free via youtube and such. Ignoring the legality/morality of that, is recording the audio from said video, so you have the song on your harddrive, any worse than just bookmarking the video and watching it whenever you want?
I have to say, Them's arguments have merit. If games are too crappy to buy, why would you want to pirate them? If they're good enough to pirate, why don't you shell out?
The typical counter-argument is "I would, but they're too expensive." That may be correct, but that's still no excuse for theft. You're not entitled to games. They're not a basic necessity. If food was sold at draconian premiums simply because they can, you'd be entitled to petition and complain and riot, but games are a luxury article.
The one excuse I personally see for piracy are draconian copy protection schemes. The ones that punish the legitimate user. But again, the moral high ground would be to simply boycott them completely, not pirate them.
And if your family can't afford clothes, that says something about the welfare system of your country.
<!--quoteo(post=1634163:date=Jun 18 2007, 05:29 AM:name=Testament)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Testament @ Jun 18 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]1634163[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you really think you're pirating for some good you're dumb. You're just cheap and angry like me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
My question is, does downloading ROMs of a game that was no longer being produced by the time I could read be considered piracy? I couldn't buy them even if I wanted to... Though, I guess I know the answer to that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say, Them's arguments have merit. If games are too crappy to buy, why would you want to pirate them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't play them, though. They ARE too crappy to even bother pirating them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> And if your family can't afford clothes, that says something about the welfare system of your country.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a few years past, but Canadian's welfare system is pretty bad.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
Pirating is illegal and Wrong.
That being said: I am moraly bankrupt.
The counter argument to THEM's "if they suck, why download them"?
Everything has a cost and a worth.
The cost of Halo 2 (PC) is $40 OR the usage of my connection for 6 hrs and the chance of being sued for a very large amount of $$ and possibly jail time.
Now, Halo 2 is most deffinatly not Worth $40 to me.
Is it Worth the ussage of my connection for 6 hours and the risk of penalties? Well the answer is actualy still no, but if it was a game I was sorta interested in, the answer might be yes.
Or take NS. The Cost of NS is $0, however the Worth of NS was $20 to me.
As I said, this is neither legal nor moral, however, they are my views.
BTW, The answer on old ROMs and abandonware: Some one holds the rights to those games (As they have not been released into the public domain) and thus could sue any one that has obtained a copy illegaly.
Hmm, I didn't read the entire topic but: I usually buy recent games I'll even buy games that have only single player. Estimating, I have about 50-60 legit pc games and 20 pirated ones (pc). Which ones do I have pirated? Mostly single player only games (or with extremely crappy mp) and games that aren't too recent (as in, I can't get it at the local game store so I'm too lazy to get it elsewhere. I have several GBA/SNES/NES/... ROMs, including of games I own. I <i>never</i> buy other software than games. Like hell I'm going to pay hundreds of dollars for an operating system, a firewall (though I use a free ware one), a graphics editor or the likes.
Games are overpriced and rising. Some people complain about games being $60? They're €60 over here. A recently released well known OS? 400$ vs €500.
My question is, does downloading ROMs of a game that was no longer being produced by the time I could read be considered piracy? I couldn't buy them even if I wanted to... Though, I guess I know the answer to that. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--quoteo(post=1634177:date=Jun 17 2007, 11:02 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Jun 17 2007, 11:02 PM) [snapback]1634177[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> As an interesting point/question, there are many, many music videos available for free via youtube and such. Ignoring the legality/morality of that, is recording the audio from said video, so you have the song on your harddrive, any worse than just bookmarking the video and watching it whenever you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Piracy Calculator. I'm at like $8000 canadian <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
In the case of about 70-80% of the material though I don't think I would've purchased it if I didn't download it instead.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1634158:date=Jun 18 2007, 02:27 AM:name=T_h_e_m)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T_h_e_m @ Jun 18 2007, 02:27 AM) [snapback]1634158[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well hey, it sounds like you'd have no problem going 100% legal. Why not give it a try? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, next the to rape and extortion I've done, copying games is no biggie. Out of my library of games, about 5% are bootlegs. That includes all my consoles and whatnot.
<!--quoteo(post=1634190:date=Jun 18 2007, 05:19 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 18 2007, 05:19 AM) [snapback]1634190[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I have to say, Them's arguments have merit. If games are too crappy to buy, why would you want to pirate them? If they're good enough to pirate, why don't you shell out? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When did they have to be good to pirate? Most of the games I pirate are first time tries, and eventual deletes.
Comments
I can completely understand your POV which is certainly heavily influenced by the fact that you are a game developer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
But buying games is nowadays a real pain in the ass.
My current process of buying a game looks like this:
-See advert, get recommendation, see magazine article.
-Gather additional information about the game
-Visit the official forums to determine how many bugs there, how many hardware issues exist
-Rent the game at my local video store €1,60 per day (german version <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />)
-Play the game a little bit to make sure that the game play is good and that there are no hardware issues
-Create a image of the game and look for a crack online
-Test weather the game can be installed from the image and played with the crack
-Delete image, uninstall game (I don't want the bad synchrod german version)
-Go to okaysoft.de and order an import version €40-€50
-Wait up to a week, depending on weather they have the game in stock or not
-When the game arrives I create an image of it, take the disc out of the drive and put the game safely away <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Then I install from the image and use the crack to play. This allows me to keep my games in near mint condition.
I would certainly buy MORE games, if I did not have to do all that testing an stuff.
An example of what makes me more likely to buy a game:
-Multi language version. Beeing able to install the game in english right away is a great+ (too bad that most games dont have multilanguage version written anywhere and the dvd box, even if they are multilanguage.
-No copy protection. I dont want to keep my dvd in the drive all the time. So no copy protection is something that makes me extremely happy. (Great example: Heart of Iron II)
-No cut content. (Living in germany you often see cut version over here in order to dodge the index)
-Polished gold version, no bugs, awesome gameplay etc etc...
Also, THEM, what about old games like Lucasarts adventure games? Out of production, expensive on eBay, and nobody gets royalties for them anymore.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The quality isn't as good as the actual release,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's absolutely no difference between an ISO and a CD, seeing as an ISO is the CD. Honestly, though, if a company puts out a game that doesn't deserve my time to play even a free, pirated game, why should they ever get my $60? It's all the same in the end, except I'm not shelling out a huge chunk of change for something that won't get touched anyway. Download it, install it, play for 30 minutes, and uninstall. I'd save more time just downloading demos and get the same amount of gameplay. The ONLY game in the past 4 years I've looked forward to is Portal, which I'll be buying. Strange, people buy good games? Whoa~
...
Plus, here in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_sharing_in_Canada" target="_blank">Canada</a> downloading copyrighted material for private use is <b>not</b> illegal (only uploading/distributing it is), so it makes it even easier to detach myself, not to mention the "Robin Hood" effect playing into all of this.
<b>Moral response:</b> That's BS. Get a (first/second/third/fourth/....) job if you want it and can't afford it. Ever drank a soda or ate some junk food while pirating/playing that media? Ever made an impulse buy in the last few months? Does your wardrobe contain more than 2 pairs of each of the bare essentials and some work clothes? You seem to own a computer hooked up to a broadband connection. How come you can afford any/all of that? This is morally unacceptable.
<b>Legal Response:</b> Illegal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The last purchase I've made was an Electric Bass, and that was half a year ago. I hardly spend the little I have since most games suck now and the games I'd want to buy don't have demos. Plus something like The Sims 2 has so many expansions it costs around $150+ to get everything, and for a game I play every now and then, that's total BS. A lot of games aren't even worth the price tag they have on the shelves and they never go down.
Plus it's the internet, there are no morals.
The last purchase I've made was an Electric Bass, and that was half a year ago. I hardly spend the little I have since most games suck now and the games I'd want to buy don't have demos. Plus something like The Sims 2 has so many expansions it costs around $150+ to get everything, and for a game I play every now and then, that's total BS. A lot of games aren't even worth the price tag they have on the shelves and they never go down.
Plus it's the internet, there are no morals.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you don't agree with the price of a game, then you don't play it. If you thought the bass was too much it wouldn't be right to steal it; it's no different with computer games.
<!--quoteo(post=1633933:date=Jun 17 2007, 12:43 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 17 2007, 12:43 AM) [snapback]1633933[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can completely understand your POV which is certainly heavily influenced by the fact that you are a game developer<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've held the opinion that piracy is wrong longer than I've been working as a game developer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That logic put me out a few hundred dollars a while back. A game shouldn't be made good by your fear of making a bad purchase, it should be good because it's good.
I always buy a game, but never software that costs $200+, you dont need that much money for some code. Photoshop and 3dsmax would be more widely purchased if it dropped to a price that the average joe could afford with a bit out of a weeks affordable cash.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, the ammount of coding time that goes into those programs will often earn it's price. Also, many of those businesses wouldn't be able to stay afloat if they sold it for $50 a pop, since the market is so small. Also, 3dsmax is used to make multi-million dollar animations and such, so with those kinds of potential profits I think it's pretty reasonable to ask for $3k.
If you don't agree with the price of a game, then you don't play it. If you thought the bass was too much it wouldn't be right to steal it; it's no different with computer games.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I don't agree with the price I'll throw my money down for two DS games and download the game I was intending to get or wait for a price drop. PC games don't have the replay value, linear gameplay and a lot of crappy multiplayer is not worth $60.
Instruments are way to much, especially since it's just a hobby, so I stick with the cheap ones until what I have breaks down.
<!--quoteo(post=1634051:date=Jun 17 2007, 03:06 PM:name=T_h_e_m)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T_h_e_m @ Jun 17 2007, 03:06 PM) [snapback]1634051[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Have you considered that you don't enjoy it because it's free (has no value) from your point of view?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, if I have to throw money down for something to be able to enjoy it, it's a piece of crap.
I know your opinion would change if piracy were simply not an option. If they're so crappy, why not just try giving up pirating them completely? Stop playing your existing pirated copies, and stop pirating new ones. You can still stay true to your opinion that PC games aren't worth the money. And you'll be slightly less of a criminal.
Win Win.
Staying legal is not philosophy. It's good citizenship.
I know your opinion would change if piracy were simply not an option. If they're so crappy, why not just try giving up pirating them completely? Stop playing your existing pirated copies, and stop pirating new ones. You can still stay true to your opinion that PC games aren't worth the money. And you'll be slightly less of a criminal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't change, in fact I only have 2 pirated games on my system. I have plenty of ROMs though... of games I already own. I don't want to hook the N64 up to play them. And one of the games on here is for my girlfriend to play.
Most of the games I pirate don't even stay on the system long enough to be beaten and some didn't even run. And I was planning on getting them. They're just boring, aka Fallout 2. But I keep giving games a chance to see if they're worth the money.
Most of the games I pirate don't even stay on the system long enough to be beaten and some didn't even run. And I was planning on getting them. They're just boring, aka Fallout 2. But I keep giving games a chance to see if they're worth the money.
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Well hey, it sounds like you'd have no problem going 100% legal. Why not give it a try?
That said, it hardly matters either way. Games suck and I hardly have morals. I stole my copy of NWN from a store. If I didn't pirate, I probably wouldn't have been able to play any games until last year when I was able to work, anyway. Growing up in a family that can't afford clothes does that. Hard to afford $60 for a game. Really, though, debating over it is dumb. If you really think you're pirating for some good you're dumb. You're just cheap and angry like me.
The typical counter-argument is "I would, but they're too expensive." That may be correct, but that's still no excuse for theft. You're not entitled to games. They're not a basic necessity. If food was sold at draconian premiums simply because they can, you'd be entitled to petition and complain and riot, but games are a luxury article.
The one excuse I personally see for piracy are draconian copy protection schemes. The ones that punish the legitimate user. But again, the moral high ground would be to simply boycott them completely, not pirate them.
And if your family can't afford clothes, that says something about the welfare system of your country.
If you really think you're pirating for some good you're dumb. You're just cheap and angry like me.
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This.
My question is, does downloading ROMs of a game that was no longer being produced by the time I could read be considered piracy? I couldn't buy them even if I wanted to... Though, I guess I know the answer to that.
I don't play them, though. They ARE too crappy to even bother pirating them.
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And if your family can't afford clothes, that says something about the welfare system of your country.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a few years past, but Canadian's welfare system is pretty bad.
That being said:
I am moraly bankrupt.
The counter argument to THEM's "if they suck, why download them"?
Everything has a cost and a worth.
The cost of Halo 2 (PC) is $40 OR the usage of my connection for 6 hrs and the chance of being sued for a very large amount of $$ and possibly jail time.
Now, Halo 2 is most deffinatly not Worth $40 to me.
Is it Worth the ussage of my connection for 6 hours and the risk of penalties? Well the answer is actualy still no, but if it was a game I was sorta interested in, the answer might be yes.
Or take NS. The Cost of NS is $0, however the Worth of NS was $20 to me.
As I said, this is neither legal nor moral, however, they are my views.
BTW, The answer on old ROMs and abandonware:
Some one holds the rights to those games (As they have not been released into the public domain) and thus could sue any one that has obtained a copy illegaly.
will they?
Probably not.
Games are overpriced and rising. Some people complain about games being $60? They're €60 over here. A recently released well known OS? 400$ vs €500.
gg
This.
My question is, does downloading ROMs of a game that was no longer being produced by the time I could read be considered piracy? I couldn't buy them even if I wanted to... Though, I guess I know the answer to that.
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Terrorist...
As an interesting point/question, there are many, many music videos available for free via youtube and such. Ignoring the legality/morality of that, is recording the audio from said video, so you have the song on your harddrive, any worse than just bookmarking the video and watching it whenever you want?
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no
<a href="http://qntm.org/owe" target="_blank">http://qntm.org/owe</a>
Piracy Calculator. I'm at like $8000 canadian <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
In the case of about 70-80% of the material though I don't think I would've purchased it if I didn't download it instead.
Well hey, it sounds like you'd have no problem going 100% legal. Why not give it a try?
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Well, next the to rape and extortion I've done, copying games is no biggie. Out of my library of games, about 5% are bootlegs. That includes all my consoles and whatnot.
<!--quoteo(post=1634190:date=Jun 18 2007, 05:19 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 18 2007, 05:19 AM) [snapback]1634190[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I have to say, Them's arguments have merit. If games are too crappy to buy, why would you want to pirate them? If they're good enough to pirate, why don't you shell out?
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When did they have to be good to pirate? Most of the games I pirate are first time tries, and eventual deletes.