Interesting find. I'll probably just add some damage to blocking the mag pumps.
The benefit of mag pump is debatable. I'd prefer to siege from is since it takes the higher life forms longer to get to. Skulks get an absolute feeding frenzy of course, due to the 4 vent entrances from all angles, but MT or a simple obs can take care of that, assuming the aliens even know what they're doing. But the Slug Room siege is right around the corner, and a fade can pop in an out very quickly.
I personally think mag pump should be made into a more practical siege room. At the very least, let more sieges be dropped in mag pump. only half of the cannons that fit in that room will even fire, so a commander would be limited to 2 or 3 which would likely make it an ineffective siege. Currently the hallway from mag pump to slug room looks like a far too cozy siege spot that holds 5 sieges and is brightly lit (theres not even a vent leading there), and nobody would consider sieging from mag pump which holds 3 cannons max, has a billion vents, cover for aliens, and is dark. This is a shame, since mag pump is a really freaking cool room.
What would I would really love is if mag pump and the hall to slug room could be considered a single siege spot. Collectively they would hold enough sieges to take down a hive easily, but if a comm chose not to weld mag pump open, he could still drop a few sieges. If there was a gorge or 2 healing the hive, he might decide to compromise the security of mag pump (by welding open the vents) in order to fit a few more sieges using the same turret factory. basically, i'm suggesting moving the siege spot... <img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g53/scaryface666/moveit.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />...here so that all the siege cannons in mag pump reach and reshaping that hallway leading to slug room to fit fewer sieges. I also think that one of the pistons in the center of the room should be raised initially, concealing a vent above it that would open with the weldable since that would look cool.
Hmm, i totally didnt even notice that siege <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I knew people would attempt sieges from in/around Slug, due to not understanding the weldable in Mag Pump, but i thought they'd mostly be doomed to failure.
I could fit 4 sieges in that hall. I'm pretty sure you cant fit anymore than that. And yes, you can fit exactly 3 sieges in Mag Pump. Thats done by design; i wanted this to be the only decent siege location, aside from a siege from Slug Room that was practically inside the hive room. Starboard also has a small res disadvantage (imo, a small one) comparatively, so i figured giving it a more difficult siege was a decent tradeoff.
I'll likely change those halls so you can fit max 2 sieges. That way, it wont be viable at all, and the planned siegeability of Starboard Hive (which i just explained) will be properly met.
As for Mag Pump siege, i'm still debating leaving it at 3 max; i might consider moving the wall by a foot to let it be upped to 4. A 3-siege location is what i consider a balanced sieging; with only 1 obs, you have enough to do the job. If theres more than one gorge, or a DC, you may need a second obs or a marine rush to finish it off. I always prefer the necessity for marines to rush in during at least some point of a siege. But I might have overlooked one factor; the RT. Its placed directly between the hive and the RT, so at 3 sieges, it'll likely take two pings just on itself.
So yeah, i'll likely allow 4 sieges in there, but not 5.
I haven't gotten a good match going on it yet, but seems an awesome map so far.
The only problem I see is your choice of siege. Sure some maps have obvious spots to siege, but it's not a necessity. Restricting people by map design can be a bit hazardous.
My experience is that hallways into hives tend to get used quite often for a siege point. Having special siege rooms is often nice, but the biggest problem I've had is the weldable requirement for almost all the good ones. Maybe I'm just weird, but I fell that although making good use of weldables is a plus (and you've done a really nice job of it), make or break weldables tend to detract in my view.
Just throwing it out there. Great work on everything else, though. Some of that weird hopping stuff bugs the heck out of me in the shaft, but I guess it's a nice treat for the l33t players.
I'm a very exact mapper. I despise the haphazard sieges found in so many maps. I miss things or make mistakes as well, but i plan them out and test them out very thoroughly.
The middle hive can be sieged from either side. The Shaft side is a bit tight, whereas the Keystone side is easier, but imo a tough spot to defend for marines. This is mostly because they practically have their backs to a wall; just that its not a wall, its a drop. Once they fall, they cant hit anything (due to the direct nature of guns), and have to run around to get back up and into the fight. Ive heard people complain that its too easy and too hard for both sides, which is expected, and its worked out very well over the games we've had.
The two bottom hives can only be sieged from one side each... at first. That is, Port can be sieged from Docking Wing or Cargo Transfer (the ramp between it and the hive), but Cargo is suicide. Docking has plenty of vent cover, but is too marine-friendly in _v1, so in _v2 im adding an alien-friendly vent. Nothing crazy, but it should balance it out.
Starboard can be sieged from Mag Pump, and sorta from Slug Room. Mag Pump was designed to be a crazy siege; while it allows siege, it opens up 3 additional vents. The siege from Slug Room i missed somehow, so its being fixed in _v2. You'll still be able to siege from the doorway at Slug, and hence have the PG fully in Slug (as its safer), but the best will still be from Mag Pump.
Then there's the two H2O tanks. These are initially filled with water, hence no siege. But if a marine really ninjas and gets into the vent with the Manual Override (which IS possible without a JP or mines or anything... you just gotta figure it out), then the water can be dropped and two decent sieges are opened. These are not GREAT sieges. They are small, open rooms with two vents in the ceiling. But they're still sieges, and they're better than the rooms slightly closer to the hives (the C-shaped rooms). But you can siege from there if you want.
Do you really think the jumping in the Shaft is that hard? It just takes normal jumps to hop around. You could instead just bring the elevator up.
Servers that run the map are TacticalGamer, I-AM, and G4B2S. Some are on the votemap, some need to be changed by admin. Glad you're enjoying it though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
The benefit of mag pump is debatable. I'd prefer to siege from is since it takes the higher life forms longer to get to. Skulks get an absolute feeding frenzy of course, due to the 4 vent entrances from all angles, but MT or a simple obs can take care of that, assuming the aliens even know what they're doing. But the Slug Room siege is right around the corner, and a fade can pop in an out very quickly.
At the very least, let more sieges be dropped in mag pump. only half of the cannons that fit in that room will even fire, so a commander would be limited to 2 or 3 which would likely make it an ineffective siege. Currently the hallway from mag pump to slug room looks like a far too cozy siege spot that holds 5 sieges and is brightly lit (theres not even a vent leading there), and nobody would consider sieging from mag pump which holds 3 cannons max, has a billion vents, cover for aliens, and is dark. This is a shame, since mag pump is a really freaking cool room.
What would I would really love is if mag pump and the hall to slug room could be considered a single siege spot. Collectively they would hold enough sieges to take down a hive easily, but if a comm chose not to weld mag pump open, he could still drop a few sieges. If there was a gorge or 2 healing the hive, he might decide to compromise the security of mag pump (by welding open the vents) in order to fit a few more sieges using the same turret factory. basically, i'm suggesting moving the siege spot...
<img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g53/scaryface666/moveit.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />...here so that all the siege cannons in mag pump reach and reshaping that hallway leading to slug room to fit fewer sieges.
I also think that one of the pistons in the center of the room should be raised initially, concealing a vent above it that would open with the weldable since that would look cool.
anyway, i love the map, so thanks for making it!
I knew people would attempt sieges from in/around Slug, due to not understanding the weldable in Mag Pump, but i thought they'd mostly be doomed to failure.
I could fit 4 sieges in that hall. I'm pretty sure you cant fit anymore than that. And yes, you can fit exactly 3 sieges in Mag Pump. Thats done by design; i wanted this to be the only decent siege location, aside from a siege from Slug Room that was practically inside the hive room. Starboard also has a small res disadvantage (imo, a small one) comparatively, so i figured giving it a more difficult siege was a decent tradeoff.
I'll likely change those halls so you can fit max 2 sieges. That way, it wont be viable at all, and the planned siegeability of Starboard Hive (which i just explained) will be properly met.
As for Mag Pump siege, i'm still debating leaving it at 3 max; i might consider moving the wall by a foot to let it be upped to 4. A 3-siege location is what i consider a balanced sieging; with only 1 obs, you have enough to do the job. If theres more than one gorge, or a DC, you may need a second obs or a marine rush to finish it off. I always prefer the necessity for marines to rush in during at least some point of a siege. But I might have overlooked one factor; the RT. Its placed directly between the hive and the RT, so at 3 sieges, it'll likely take two pings just on itself.
So yeah, i'll likely allow 4 sieges in there, but not 5.
I haven't gotten a good match going on it yet, but seems an awesome map so far.
The only problem I see is your choice of siege. Sure some maps have obvious spots to siege, but it's not a necessity. Restricting people by map design can be a bit hazardous.
My experience is that hallways into hives tend to get used quite often for a siege point. Having special siege rooms is often nice, but the biggest problem I've had is the weldable requirement for almost all the good ones. Maybe I'm just weird, but I fell that although making good use of weldables is a plus (and you've done a really nice job of it), make or break weldables tend to detract in my view.
Just throwing it out there. Great work on everything else, though. Some of that weird hopping stuff bugs the heck out of me in the shaft, but I guess it's a nice treat for the l33t players.
Keep it coming!
The middle hive can be sieged from either side. The Shaft side is a bit tight, whereas the Keystone side is easier, but imo a tough spot to defend for marines. This is mostly because they practically have their backs to a wall; just that its not a wall, its a drop. Once they fall, they cant hit anything (due to the direct nature of guns), and have to run around to get back up and into the fight. Ive heard people complain that its too easy and too hard for both sides, which is expected, and its worked out very well over the games we've had.
The two bottom hives can only be sieged from one side each... at first. That is, Port can be sieged from Docking Wing or Cargo Transfer (the ramp between it and the hive), but Cargo is suicide. Docking has plenty of vent cover, but is too marine-friendly in _v1, so in _v2 im adding an alien-friendly vent. Nothing crazy, but it should balance it out.
Starboard can be sieged from Mag Pump, and sorta from Slug Room. Mag Pump was designed to be a crazy siege; while it allows siege, it opens up 3 additional vents. The siege from Slug Room i missed somehow, so its being fixed in _v2. You'll still be able to siege from the doorway at Slug, and hence have the PG fully in Slug (as its safer), but the best will still be from Mag Pump.
Then there's the two H2O tanks. These are initially filled with water, hence no siege. But if a marine really ninjas and gets into the vent with the Manual Override (which IS possible without a JP or mines or anything... you just gotta figure it out), then the water can be dropped and two decent sieges are opened. These are not GREAT sieges. They are small, open rooms with two vents in the ceiling. But they're still sieges, and they're better than the rooms slightly closer to the hives (the C-shaped rooms). But you can siege from there if you want.
Do you really think the jumping in the Shaft is that hard? It just takes normal jumps to hop around. You could instead just bring the elevator up.
Servers that run the map are TacticalGamer, I-AM, and G4B2S. Some are on the votemap, some need to be changed by admin. Glad you're enjoying it though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />