Rail cars from the NS2 concept

ChuckstarNLChuckstarNL Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23446Members
edited June 2007 in Mapping Forum
<div class="IPBDescription">.vmf included</div>I made this just for fun and as a kind of example map for source mapping... but mostly for fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> The rail cars work, but sometimes they can derail. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> They also have light and sound.

<a href="http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ns2railcars0000fp1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5122/ns2railcars0000fp1.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a> <a href="http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ns2railcars0001rf9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2943/ns2railcars0001rf9.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>

<b>Download:</b>
Map: <a href="http://rapidshare.com/files/34971518/ns2_railcars.zip.html" target="_blank">http://rapidshare.com/files/34971518/ns2_railcars.zip.html</a>
Source VMF: <a href="http://rapidshare.com/files/34971908/ns2_railcars_vmf.zip.html" target="_blank">http://rapidshare.com/files/34971908/ns2_r...rs_vmf.zip.html</a>

Have fun!

Edit: Fixed the light texture. It was a ported HL1 texture btw.
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Comments

  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
    edited June 2007
    The way derailing works is soo stupid ^^ (but fun)


    Anyway: In order to make this work in NS2 a serious revamp of some part of the engine might be in order.

    Edit: Oh and I am getting a texture error for that red-light texture on the monorail. Where is that texture located?

    p.s. I used to normal HL2 to run this, so its most likely somewhere in EP1 or LC, but its late and so I wont be looking for them.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    halflife.wad me thinks.
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  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    pretty cool <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

    although i think the tram will work more like other vehicles in hl2 - it will be a 3d mesh/model rather than bsp brushes.
    But hey pretty good for some testing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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  • StixNStonzStixNStonz Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I dunno. I think the trains in HL2 single player were actually brush-based.. i never saw the models anywhere in the model directories. Remember that HL2 is a far cry from HL1... brushes can be a LOT smaller, a LOT more detailed.

    Theres pretty much no chance that the trams will be free-running like the hovercraft and the buggy in HL2. If anything, they might be models, but have the same type of 'forward/back' controls as the HL1 trains.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1631085:date=Jun 4 2007, 09:11 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jun 4 2007, 09:11 AM) [snapback]1631085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Theres pretty much no chance that the trams will be free-running like the hovercraft and the buggy in HL2. If anything, they might be models, but have the same type of 'forward/back' controls as the HL1 trains.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Don't rule anything out <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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  • ThuroThuro Join Date: 2007-05-30 Member: 61058Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jun 4 2007, 09:11 AM)
    Theres pretty much no chance that the trams will be free-running like the hovercraft and the buggy in HL2. If anything, they might be models, but have the same type of 'forward/back' controls as the HL1 trains.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=1631108:date=Jun 4 2007, 10:42 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Jun 4 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]1631108[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Don't rule anything out <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    A) there was the issue of being able to put a car virtually anywhere you wanted. (Ever play Halo/Halo2 and stick the warthog in places it ought not be?)
    B) Too much power in a moving vehicle that can go <i>anywhere</i>.
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  • KungFuSquirrelKungFuSquirrel Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--quoteo(post=1631085:date=Jun 4 2007, 03:11 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jun 4 2007, 03:11 AM) [snapback]1631085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->brushes can be a LOT smaller, a LOT more detailed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    wait, what? The world scale and smallest grid division is unchanged from HL1 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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  • StixNStonzStixNStonz Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Heh true. I meant though that you could have ten times as many brushes visible, with ten times the texture detail (or so it seems). So the trams could actually be brush-based and still look pretty damn good. Models would look even better, but i dont know if the collision models would be good enough for something that large, that would move so much.
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  • ArchfiendchrisArchfiendchris Join Date: 2007-05-26 Member: 61016Members, Constellation
    I say a good job, i love seeing people play with the ideas, i am sure the ns team does too!.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1631461:date=Jun 5 2007, 06:22 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jun 5 2007, 06:22 PM) [snapback]1631461[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Heh true. I meant though that you could have ten times as many brushes visible, with ten times the texture detail (or so it seems). So the trams could actually be brush-based and still look pretty damn good. Models would look even better, but i dont know if the collision models would be good enough for something that large, that would move so much.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So infact you meant to say brushes can be alot bigger and the world can be alot bigger? Digging yourself in a hole, I'd leave it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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  • ChuckstarNLChuckstarNL Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23446Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1631525:date=Jun 5 2007, 03:12 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Jun 5 2007, 03:12 PM) [snapback]1631525[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    So infact you meant to say brushes can be alot bigger and the world can be alot bigger? Digging yourself in a hole, I'd leave it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think he meant to say the rooms can have a lot more detail. The "world" can actually be 64 times bigger than a HL1 map.
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  • StixNStonzStixNStonz Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yeah, we were talking about detail and i said that you could have ten times as many brushes visible. Detail brushes means small brushes. Dunno why you understood detail brushes to be massive brushes.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    Uhm I'm sure the engines aren't that far apart. 10x more brushes, alot tinier? Uhm... are you referring to models and static meshes by some chance?
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  • StixNStonzStixNStonz Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Dude, have you tried Source mapping? Its awesome. And yes, im talking about Brushes, hence why i said Brushes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.

    I started mapping on Source as soon as it came out, with no previous mapping experience. Frankly, its a rather dangerous engine for noob mappers. There is practically no restrictions. In HL1, you have to watch the r_speeds like a hawk; though now-obsolete computers can handle up to like 2000 with no problem, anything past 800 can actually cause engine failure on certain vid cards.

    In source, you know what it takes to actually lag out players? The few threads i've seen with newbs saying 'why is my map running slowly?' has been where they made virtual cities with a bell tower in the middle that can see everything. And those cases were usually from seeing hundreds of different models at once, with the thousands of brushes not causing the lag at all.

    Source goes by this weird bar chart to explain performance. It can take so much of every type of map item at once. You'll be hard pressed to ever fill up the texture/world brush one (i cant remember what they call it).



    So no, there is very little similarity in performance between HL and Source. Source kicks its lilly little a$$. You can make crazy detail out of world brushes, all the way down to single-unit-clipped triangles if you want. And on top of this is the fantastic prop system of models, along with all the visual orga$m-inducing candy (especially for mappers) such as displacements, 3d skyboxes, cables, and even the extremely powerful trigger system.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1631866:date=Jun 6 2007, 06:02 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jun 6 2007, 06:02 PM) [snapback]1631866[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    <Insert fan boy new mapper post about an engine>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Source has limits. And BSP related apart from the geometry tool enhancement I don't see any reason why the world brushes would have no limits. As far as I see it's enhanced BSP technology, so it has it's limits. Particularly in the use of dynamic props online.
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  • StixNStonzStixNStonz Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Dynamic props are objects that use 'real physics', like barrels that fly and roll like real barrels when pushed and shot. Those are a FAR cry from world brushes, and every Source mapper knows to keep them to very low numbers. You're talking about two absolutely different things.

    <i>Obviously</i> Source has limits. But you must be flying high if you think that a nine-year-old engine based off of <i>the very first three-dimensional non-sprite-based engine of two years before THAT</i> is 'not that far apart' from Source.

    Do you even know what you're talking about? I dont see why you decided to insult me by calling me a fanboy. I've been actively and seriously mapping for almost three years now. And despite my Source experience being from my early years, i fully released two source maps, with an extremely ambitious third map currently about half complete.

    My guess is that you really dont know what you're talking about. You're comparing dynamic props (the biggest resource hog for online gaming in Source by far) with world brushes, when we're talking only about world brushes. In fact, the original topic was about the NS2 Rail Cars, which I said would likely still be brush-based, but would look damn good because of the fantastic detail allowed in Source with said brushes. Plus you were almost purposefully misquoting me... or you just don't understand what you're talking about.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1631968:date=Jun 7 2007, 01:11 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jun 7 2007, 01:11 AM) [snapback]1631968[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    <i>Obviously</i> Source has limits. But you must be flying high if you think that a nine-year-old engine based off of <i>the very first three-dimensional non-sprite-based engine of two years before THAT</i> is 'not that far apart' from Source.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's still using the base of years old technology. All you see with Source is stretching the limits of that technology for creating the environments. What main things do Source environments have over HL1 environments?

    - Bump mapping (which is also doable in HL1 but not really sustainable)
    - Dynamic props (coming from an integrated Physics engine)
    - Geometry
    - Graphical improvements, higher texture resolution limit, better formats, able to render more polygons at once, curves, 3d skybox etc.

    Minor improvements include things such as shadowing and lighting.

    The engine itself is a good engine but when you look at mapping and level design, it doesn't seem as if they've changed anything about the way the Binary Space Partitioning is used or the level file is created. Heck, the editor still isn't anywhere near as advanced as other editors which must tell you something about the base of engine and the way the map files are compiled. I believe other engines such as Unreal compile levels in runtime where as BSP based levels don't, not 100% sure on that but I'm pretty certain.
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  • StixNStonzStixNStonz Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1632084:date=Jun 7 2007, 09:56 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Jun 7 2007, 09:56 AM) [snapback]1632084[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    - Bump mapping (which is also doable in HL1 but not really sustainable)
    - Dynamic props (coming from an integrated Physics engine)
    - Geometry
    - Graphical improvements, higher texture resolution limit, better formats, able to render more polygons at once, curves, 3d skybox etc.
    ...Minor improvements include things such as shadowing and lighting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'll add in:
    - Trigger System [offering an infinitely more interactive potential in mapping, held back only by the mapper's creativity and depth of knowledge on its use]
    - General Props [imo far more important than dynamic props. Dynamic props are awesome and fun for singleplayer and for physics-based multiplayer, such as HL2 DM. But non-dynamic props take basic brush-based mapping and adds in all the details of real life that need higher detail than brushes allow, and it does them perfectly with extremely little performance loss]


    So, Source has huge updates in: how big the world is, how big the world can appear [on top of how big it is], how detailed the world is, how interactive the world is, and how good the world looks and feels.

    What the hell else is there in mapping?!

    And real-time editor rendering sounds nice, but is a far cry from being the something that differentiates Source from a 'real next-gen engine'.
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  • Spawn_of_Chaos97Spawn_of_Chaos97 Join Date: 2006-11-21 Member: 58694Members
    Hey all,

    The trains in HL2 are indeed models, go get Garry's Mod 9 and you'll see. Every car, truck, and other moving vehicle is a model. Including the combine trains. So yeah, these could also be models.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1634762:date=Jun 20 2007, 06:38 AM:name=Spawn_of_Chaos97)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spawn_of_Chaos97 @ Jun 20 2007, 06:38 AM) [snapback]1634762[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Hey all,

    The trains in HL2 are indeed models, go get Garry's Mod 9 and you'll see. Every car, truck, and other moving vehicle is a model. Including the combine trains. So yeah, these could also be models.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thanks. We all knew that however the original post owner was just doing it as a test run and something to play around with <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
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