Your opinion: the best and worst map in this mod

the_x5 · April 2007

<div class="IPBDescription">Please include why, and if most are not familiar with it: a screenshot</div>I've been thinking... Since this subject semi-frequently comes up on servers that use Crab's Map Manager...

What are your favorite and least favorite maps in Natural-Selection? I'm looking for your best & worst maps <b>overall</b>, (NS, CO, Seige, etc.) not per gametype although if you wish to share with use your best & worst for each gametype you are more than welcome to. I realize opinions will change with time, new versions, and new maps but don't forget you can always edit your post. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

For example:

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Best:</span>

<span style="color:#009900"><b>ns_machina</b></span>

A tough call but I love the high entropy design, well supported architecture and open design that welcomes you to explore. I'd add more praise but I've already said what I like about it in two threads.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Worst:</span>

<span style="color:#990000"><b>co_mvsm_dead_boobookitties</b></span>

Not much better than most poor quality MvM "fun maps", but the god damn doors are the most annoying thing of all. Not to mention the map isn't even balanced. Very unpolished, poor texturing and texture facing/resizing, poor architecture, low entropy,... need I go on?

(Actually, I have a map in mind that's actually worse, an NS map which is nothing but a bunch of straight rectangular rooms for the hive rooms where you can see the repeating textures as clear as day, an "oh cool it looks like office complex from teh original half-life!!1" marine start, super long narrow hallways with epicly low entropy, and areas that are completely black (as in if you don't have your flashlight on you just see black). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of said map. Likely because I just deleted it right off my hard drive when the server changed the map. That doesn't ring a bell with anyone does it?)

GiGaBiTe · April 2007

My personal favorite is ns_moria_beta10, but you need at least 32 players to play it and more would be good if the engine supported it. The worst map I ever played was ns_lightsiege. For MvM, co_suddendropIII.

Depot · April 2007

My favorite hybrid map was co_dod_legoland2 (mvm), although by design it lagged a bit. Absolutely the most fun I've ever had jetpacking, with virtually uncapped ceiling height. A snipers haven too.

By far the most popular mvm map on my server was co_marineworld_v5 (or something to that effect). It boasted a sekrat room accessible through a hidden door in the rr which had wild music. Both bases were protected by doors, which lead to some interesting jamups there. Another jetpack heaven. Pleanty of dark spots to hide and ambush too.

Combat and classic to be added later. Siege maps blow...

Spawn_of_Chaos97 · April 2007

Best map ever, alien side: co_niveus

Best map ever, rine side: co_faceoff

Worst map ever, alien side: ns_bast from NS v2.0

Worst map ever, rine side: co_niveus (lol)

Best map overall: co_niveus

Worst map overall: ns_missilecommand series and clones.

Oh, forgot one category...

Best ported/edited map: co_dust, the edited version that's dark, has a lot of pillars, and is enclosed.

Worst ported/edited map: The Blackmesa series, though the "Whitemesa" edit isn't half as bad as the rest (at least it's not a mirrored map!).

KungFuDiscoMonkey · April 2007

It's a tough choice between Hera or Eclipse as the best visually. Screenshots of those on the readyroom site is what initially caught my interest. Worst map is any map that either didn't do rad or didn't use more than 3 textures and other badly ported/built maps.

Saeppel · May 2007

best ns-map: ns_shiva
- looks nice, very many possibilities to attack a marine as skulk and still quite fair

worst ns-map: ns_hera
- well, its too bright and somehow not really fun to play

best co-map: co_angst
- perfectly lighted, very balanced, just fun to play

worst co-map: co_niveus
- too small corridors, 2nd entrance to the hive is a LIFT, these quake3 style jump-lifts are teh ishness

worst custommode:
1st: alien vs alien
2nd: marine vs marine
(lol, i play this because the teams arent the same, avp2 is more fun if you want play such modes)
3rd: siegemaps
(oh yeah, lets wait 5 minutes and then kill about 10 enemies within 20 minutes,[irony] fun! and its on every siege map different! [/irony])

best custommap: ns_orbital(_cal)
- one of my favourite maps, unfortunately not played so much (i think mainly because its not official)
my call: fix the marine start and make it an official map

fearian · May 2007

<b>best NS map:</b> <span style="color:#00CCCC">ns_machina</span> - easily the most gorgeous looking thing on the half life 1 engine. takes some time to learn but so worth it.
<b>
best CO map:</b> <span style="color:#00CCCC">co_blackmesa_r5a</span> - this has to be the most balanced map I have ever played, maybe in any game ever. even without mods a game can last a good 90 minuites easily.

<b>best siege map:</b> cant choose... my usual server plays alot of them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Crispy · May 2007

A difficult call. I wouldn't really give my worst vote to a custom map, but to an official map, because either the mapper or the dev team should know better than to push it on us or leave it unrepaired.

Best map I'd probably say is ns_veil. I used to hate this map and complain at how stagnant it is in terms of lighting and character. It's only when you appreciate the design points in the map -practically every facet, from overall layout to vent lighting- do you begin to respect this map for what it is. ns_eclipse, ns_origin (excellent remake apart from the lighting), ns_caged, ns_tanith and ns_nothing are not far behind at all.

If I had to choose a map based on character it would probably be ns_bast, with ns_hera, ns_lost, ns_ayumi and ns_lost close behind, although there are a lot of great custom maps out there that vie for attention in this area. ns_metal also gets special mention for its excellent use of pipes (I swear, just take a second to look at the way the pipes all intermingle next time you play it, it's really a piece of art!). I also have a special penchant for ns_eon's visuals but not for its gameplay.

Overall, the worst ns_map in the current official cycle is probably ns_ayumi for its horrendous hives, although its style is fantastic. I also don't rate ns_nancy (especially the fact this was remade with very little effort/attention made to improve the balancing).

For combat the most balanced map is probably co_pulse, although I thoroughly enjoy co_sava when both teams are fighting over the middle round (so, before the Marines start camping the Hive corridors).

The worst ever combat map is without doubt co_daimos (trumped only by 'update/reverted' version which takes all the worst parts of its predecessor and keeps all the parts of the current version that make it abismal, like the lift and the corridor of death to the phase gate). Daimos used to be half-decent, now it's a monstrosity not even worthy of a custom mappack imo. Whoever remade it should have their fingers amputated so they can never hold a mouse again. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />

Chocolate · May 2007

I can't really talk about the custom maps because I don't know very many, but here are my opinions on the official ones (I don't play any CO almost).

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><b>Best Maps:</b></span>
I like <b>eclipse</b> now because it is a good map overall. It has lots of juicy vents near action for lerk, but isn't RT holding friendly at all, especially for the marines.

I like <b>metal</b> because of its funness. Every time I play this map I seem to have fun on it. The only times I don't are when the marines are in the room near our hive and are camping there.

I like <b>altair</b> as alien a lot. I like the design of the vents, the big water vents where you can drop chambers to the small vents near action. I love being alien on this map, especially as the gorge/lerk/skulk. I also have to say that it looks like a very nice map, 2/3 of the way there to machina's look. One problem is that its unpopular like most new maps, and so never gets played much, along with it's not the best (not bad tho) game play I can get.

I like <b>machina</b> because its a damn beautiful map! It's quite a smartly made map with the layout and designs. The game play isn't the best I find, I guess because I don't like the vent system at all (I saw marines almost siege Tau hive from a vent before). It's awfully hard to defend alien hives/rts, especially when the starting hive is on either side.

PS: I also love orbital_cal! I don't know why, its just a fun 8 vs 8 casual play map. Plenty of things to do as gorge, and its just fun.

Those are the few I think are really good. I can't decide which one is the best, they all got their downsides and upsides, but I guess I would go with Altair for now (orbital being my favourite non-official map tho).

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><b>Dislikes:</b></span>
I dislike <b>tanith</b> because of a few things. I very slightly dislike it's very large focus on cargo, without cargo it's GG aliens. I dislike the vents, there just simply enough of them and enough connectivity between exits. It's not the prettiest map I've seen ever, but it is atleast balanced. It's way over played, thats probably one of the reasons I dislike it (I don't hate it, just dislike it).

I dislike <b>hera</b> a little because of the way it is. It looks really nice, and was the first map I've ever played on NS. It was my all time favourite until versions 2.x and 3.x. The new version seems to be less fun than the previous ones. I like the old MS and a lot of the old rooms (cargo, holoroom and processing seem less fun now). I guess those were the innocent times of my NS playing "carrier" but... bah...

And thats what I think <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Kouji_San · May 2007

ns_hera for 1.04

Simply because it was the first map I ever played and I didn't have a clue as to what to do.

I was walking around at the dblres and thought hey lets see what right click does, then I evolved into a gorge, much to the dislike of the other alien players. I then quickly asked, what is the problem? And they went on a rampage to explain to me how to build stuff, so I did (build a DC) no idea what it was and why it was so big <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

The players (not in the area) calmed down and thanked me for dropping the DC (forgetting I was a newbie gorge). Then after a while "WTH IS THE GORGE DOING!" "RES FLOW SUCKS!!! (1hive+3 res towers)" I was busy planting all of these spiky things called Offensive chambers along with a few DC's I saw that they healed me and my buildings. So there I was sealing of this area and thinking I was invincible...

Then an alien wandered into holo and was laughing his @$$ off over the voice com seeing me and all these chambers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> The marine team proceeded to completely own us since they had like 95% of the map expect holo. I then got the scare of my life when all hell broke loose without any enemy in sight. I was introduced to SIEGE CANNONS (back in 1.04 they had the best sound)

That's why Hera is my all time favorite <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Thaldarin · May 2007

Best: -Classic- Eclipse with that 1.x spawn <3
-Combat- Core. Love the design and the level over level play in such a small area makes things interesting.

Worst: -Official Map- (Classic) Origin. Doesn't fit in as well as others, can't put my finger on it. (Combat) Niveus. I think it's pretty ugly and unbalanced.

BigD · May 2007

Yikes... I tend to love all official maps for their different qualities. So, which of my theoretical children must die? I'm not even gonna try to name custom maps... too many...

After lots of words rambling on and on, this is quick summary.

Hera, Nothing, Caged: Visually still hold a candle to the new stuff.
Tanith: Gameplay held up through time best overall.
Mineshaft, Rebirth: Got the shaft. (So much potential! Just needed tweaking!)
Altair: Most improved visually.
Tanith: Visuals held up through time worst overall.
Machina, Shiva, Mineshaft: Visually best.
Kestrel, Core, Rebirth: Visually best combat maps.
Metal: Best overall gameplay.
Bast: Best gimmicks that didn't stand the test of gameplay.

Johnie · May 2007

<b>Favorite maps:</b>

- ns_machina and 1.04 hera and 1.04 eclipse

It's been said before. 1.04 hera and machina breath atmosphere and I really, really like the overall big feeling of the maps. I also loved 1.04 eclipse because, well, I'm not sure. I just loved the layout a bit more then the current one.

<b>Worst maps:</b>

- ns_veil and co_faceoff

I find that these maps are just plain and boring, but that might be because they get played way to often.
I think that the areas in veil look to much alike. Same counts for faceoff, I guess.

...I wont start mentioning custom maps... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Thaldarin · May 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Johnie @ May 3 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]1624695[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
- ns_veil and co_faceoff

I find that these maps are just plain and boring, but that might be because they get played way to often.
I think that the areas in veil look to much alike. Same counts for faceoff, I guess.
...I wont start mentioning custom maps... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
</div>

So consistency in aesthetics is boring? Considering faceoff is a tiny map, I don't know how areas can look too much alike.

venomus · May 2007

No, lack of anything to tell one area of the map from another is boring. Veil is technically well constructed but looks like it came out of a random map generator.
Faceoff is, lets admit it, rather ugly but it plays very well. And in the end that is the only important thing for popularity.

Thaldarin · May 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(venomus @ May 3 2007, 04:50 PM) [snapback]1624703[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
No, lack of anything to tell one area of the map from another is boring. Veil is technically well constructed but looks like it came out of a random map generator.
</div>

You do better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(venomus @ May 3 2007, 04:50 PM) [snapback]1624703[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Faceoff is, lets admit it, rather ugly but it plays very well. And in the end that is the only important thing for popularity.
</div>

What makes it ugly? The texture usage all blends well, it's well lit with different coloured lighting create a good atmosphere. It's not complete squares there is rounding of corners etc. Just curious as to why it's ugly considering it's all NS2.WAD.

venomus · May 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ May 3 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]1624706[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
You do better.
</div>

Huh? I have maps here and there which you can judge for yourself. But that is slightly irrelevant here because you seem to be implying that the ability to 'do better' dictates whether you have the right to offer artistic critisicm.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ May 3 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]1624706[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
What makes it ugly? The texture usage all blends well, it's well lit with different coloured lighting create a good atmosphere. It's not complete squares there is rounding of corners etc. Just curious as to why it's ugly considering it's all NS2.WAD.
</div>

Personally I think the lighting on that map is rather bland, who knows maybe I just run my gamma too high. It may have rounded corners but compared to core or rebirth there is definitely a lack of architectural interest and detailing.

Also, since when did usage of a particular texture set automagically confer aesthetic quality?

Johnie · May 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ May 3 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]1624699[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
So consistency in aesthetics is boring? Considering faceoff is a tiny map, I don't know how areas can look too much alike.
</div>

It's my personal opinion and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people disagree, but yes, I find such consistency boring.

StixNStonz · May 2007

Lets take a look at the official mapping guidelines then.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The map's look and feel should gradually change between the marine and alien starting points, becoming more "alien" as players move closer to the hives. This continuum will really help players know where they are, and get them to feel the tension they should as they leave their territory...

...Consider choosing two drastically different colors or lighting schemes and slowly morphing between them as the players travel from one area to the other...</div>

Nope. Theres infestation directly within the hives, but a step outside and it looks just like MS. And the same wall texture is used for pretty much the entire map.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Use high contrast lighting...</div> Nope.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Add inaccessible details...</div> Nope. Unless you count the sky texture.

I mean, admit it, Veil has to be the most artistically bland map in the game. It got a few nice little touchups in this version, but hardly anything actually substantial (since like one light got turned off, in c12). Eclipse is 2nd, but even it has a lot more flair to it. The rest of the maps have far more.

Crispy · May 2007

I think there are three areas that maps can be judged on:<ul><li><b>Technical quality</b> How well mapped the level is. The balance between nifty brushwork and decent r_speeds. What a mapper alone would worship as genius and the average player might overlook entirely.</li><li><b>Quality of gameplay</b> How well balanced the map is, whether it can give consistency for both teams and place more emphasis on decent team work, overall team strategy and reactive and proactive on-the-fly tactics. In general this might be more valued by the competitive scene, although you don't necessary have to play in competitions to understand the value of a well-balanced map.</li><li><b>Stylistic quality</b> The most personal of the three categories and easily the most open to debate. Whether you like the architecture, the ambience, the standalone features of the map. Some people might ###### (wth? I have no idea what word got censored here) for a revolving door or the NS2 wad. It's all down to personal taste.</li></ul>Basically what I'm saying is you don't have to be a mapper to answer this question with authority. The people who will know best are the people who play NS religiously and can judge quality based on their day-in, day-out experiences in NS.

Also the Official Mapping Guidelines (OMGs), while giving a lot of good advice, tend to sway towards the style>gameplay opinion in some areas. In my opinion your map should address a particular need, whether for an all-involving, fear-packed skulk-fest or for a blandly lit but well balanced and much welcomed map for competitive play. The OMGs don't cover both of these areas, so seeking relevant advice and using your noggin is essential to excel in your map's chosen goal. In NS it's impossible to please everyone so your best bet is to make it your aim to please one particular player set and ignore the needs of the otherworlders.

the_x5 · May 2007

Good criteria Crispy, let's see if we can get some more replies.

TOmekki · May 2007

best map: veil, old daimos
worst map: new daimos

edit: fine, ill elaborate a little. veil is the best map because after youve played the game for so godawfully long you just want the gameplay, and veil delivers it the best. if i got to see which point im starting from i could probably walk from ms to cargo with my monitor turned off.

daimos was the best co map because it just was. it was awesome every time you played it. and then it got ruined.

Swiftspear · May 2007

I'm going to be using kind of an unfair criteria... I'm evaluating best/worst according to what I personally find the most fun to play.

Best map: ns_eclipse. This was incredibly hard to decide on... but eclipse wins. This is the only map I've had tonnes of fun on both competitively and in pubs. Lots of other maps are fun in pubs, and not so much competitively (lucid, altair, metal, machima) and others are fun competitively more so then pubs (tanith, veil) but eclipse hits a sweet spot, and looks pretty damn good too...

Worst map: ns_ayumi. Otherwise known as ns_coldturn, there is very few redeeming features of this map. The hallways are just about universally too tight for either bhopping or combat, all the hive rooms are horribly gameplay incondusive, and the res distribution and movement flow is just weird. Well, at least when you're spending all your time locking down and raping skulks in coldturn, or having arbitrary map geometry screw your fade over, you can take solace in the fact that the snow outside the window is pretty.

I don't think it's really fair to evaluate customs which are barely meant for public consumption in the first place... Most of the customs I have played play better then ayumi anyways, even if they are generally more ugly, or the opposite, but FPS rape.

Crispy · May 2007

It's a pity about ayumi, it'd make a sweet single player map if you took the style and added in a decent scenario.

spellman23 · May 2007

Best: Eclipse or Veil.

They're both very balanced, the detail is awesome, the games are distinctive, and overall both are awesome maps. I also agree that most of the best games I've played were on these maps with some serious headbanging between the teams. Plus, these were so well designed that before we had labels for the map, people could still know where they were. Everyone knows "Triad" as "the doughnutty thingy with the blue pillars". Ah, good times.

Worst: Bast

Besides the seriously painful games that have happened, it might be balanced overall, but each area is so unblanaced towards one side it's ridiculous sometimes. Also, yay for getting confused when using a minimap, the weird vent setup, and Oni getting stuck on certain routes. It's just a pain and permantely banned from the server I play on by my friends. Last person who suggested to play on it got a drink thrown at him.

Kassinger · May 2007

I love the size and visuals of ns_machina, though sometimes gameplay suffers from commanders/players not being to experienced with it yet. Gameplay has been getting better lately though.

Lately I've been enjoying shiva and metal a lot, they've just been fun to play.

Visually, I think lucid is slightly boring, it's so grey. :/

Swiftspear · May 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kassinger @ May 27 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]1629544[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Visually, I think lucid is slightly boring, it's so grey. :/
</div>
Lucid sure isn't gorgeous, but there are some really fun things it does architecturally for gameplay... Unfortunetely gameplay seems to generally get centered around some of the more boring rooms in the map.

Jpk · May 2007

best map: ns_veil
worst maps: every one mentioned in the first three posts

TychoCelchuuu · June 2007

Best map: ns_nancy

Worst map: co_*

tjosan · June 2007

Best: tanith

Worst: niveus. Seriously, w t f.

Splinter_Steve · June 2007

Veil's the best, most balanced and dynamic for reasons stated, although holding subsector with jetpacks you can win almost every time on marines.

Worst official map is definitely lucid. Not only does it not feel like an NS map with skinny sloped hallways instead of original rooms, the hive rooms are just a complete trainwreck, even worse than caged's. They just look and play like it was a debug version or something.

Worst custom map is definitely ns_stargate. The only reason it gets voted is so people can drop an oc wall in front of the portal and force a long boring stalemate every single round with rooms that have little to no attention to detail, it feels like a UT99 low-grav map with some of the ceilings so ridiculously high. The hive layouts don't even make sense. It's total crap.

Your opinion: the best and worst map in this mod

Comments