location hits on aliens.

devil-firedevil-fire Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7912Members
the topic about recoil got me thinking about how much of ns is balanced around the attack system (biting and shooting). i realized that this system has the rest of the game balanced around how well the average players and master players are able to use this system and that changes in this system can emphasis a need for group organization or the viability of the 1-player army.

personally im more a fan of the need for group organization so i was thinking that it would be cool if attacks on the flanks and backsides of aliens did more damage or bypassed more armor then attacks to the front. this way it would be more important for marines to stick together to be able to better surround enemy aliens and discourage people from being combat effective by themselves.

for example it would be difficult for 1 player with an hmg/jp to kill an onos because the onos could just keep his good face to the marine at all times, whereas 2 marines would be able to distract the onos while at the same time attacking the rear or flank. this would generally lower the effectiveness of solo marines, while increasing the effectiveness marines in groups. it would also increase the ability of aliens to close the gap with marines while not necessarily increasing their combat effectiveness.

Comments

  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    been suggested a few times in the suggestion forum, but yes its an awesome idea no doubt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • SpaceJesusSpaceJesus Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
    terrible idea imo, with the amount tha hitregistry and luck already factors into getting kills in NS, I'd hate to imagine the amount of complaints people would start getting if location based damage was put in.
  • douchebagatrondouchebagatron Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    but this is for ns2, different engine. dont start assuming that the hitreg will be just as bad or even worse. if it can be done effectively, then im sure the ns team can do it. and if it cant be done then it wont. im for it, i like the idea.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    Id rather see locational dammage left out, but If used, then it should be the same marines, without HA a fade swipe or an oni gore to the FACE should be game over for that marine, or very close to it.
  • Moving_Target0Moving_Target0 Join Date: 2006-12-21 Member: 59174Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1621665:date=Apr 18 2007, 12:37 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Apr 18 2007, 12:37 PM) [snapback]1621665[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    terrible idea imo, with the amount tha hitregistry and luck already factors into getting kills in NS, I'd hate to imagine the amount of complaints people would start getting if location based damage was put in.
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    Complaints from you?

    In my opinion, this would add a whole new element to NS. Now ankle-biters wouldn't be as effective as the aliens who stealthily sneak up on a marine and bite the back of their neck. Likewise, a good shot could down a skulk, gorge, etc very quickly.

    This would also add into a team play element. Marines alone would be easier to pick off, and aliens would have to stick together, to a point, to cover higher life forms' weak points. If not, the alien will be much easier to kill.

    For example...if an onos was weak on the sides, strong on the front, then perhaps two fades, or lerks, or even gorges or skulks, could position themselves by the onos to strike at those who are attacking the exposed flanks, and a gorge healing them all the while.

    On the marine team, two marines could go back to back to cover their vulnerable points, each firing at aliens approaching from their side.

    etc...
  • MuzzzyMuzzzy Join Date: 2005-07-20 Member: 56360Members
    edited April 2007
    Maybe a reduced damage in the front for onos, that's all I say.
  • SpaceJesusSpaceJesus Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
    If you add location based damage, the top-tier players will become extremely vulnerable which will make the gameplay far too defensive in my view. Imagine counter-strike without location-based-damage, it would be a completely different game no? The same school of logic applies to NS also, it will completely change the flow of the game.
  • devil-firedevil-fire Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7912Members
    im thinking more about front/back hits and not about the head/leg type hits. the difference is that even the best marine won't be able to score critical location hits on an alien thats at least able to face them, while at the same time anyone who can hit an alien at all will be able to get hits on an alien's back (assuming he is in a group, or if for some other reason the alien is not facing the marine eg. attacking a phase gate instead of the marine defending it)
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    I tried to get this exact idea passed long ago... but ONLY for the onos. There there was another idea of adding headshots. Or rather areas (eyes, heads, etc.) that would deal bonus damage or cause some effect. Getting hit in the eye as an alien would temporarily black out your vision or getting hit in the leg would cause a limp with speed being reduced on that stride's stroke based on the animation. (ie: you hobble if hit hard in the leg, true for both marines and aliens) Can't seem to find the original NS threads.
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    If location damage is added, I would only want to see it in the form of damage reduction, not damage bonuses.

    Ie hitting an armor plate would do reduced damage, hitting anywhere else would do normal damage.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1622236:date=Apr 20 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Revenge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Revenge @ Apr 20 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1622236[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    If location damage is added, I would only want to see it in the form of damage reduction, not damage bonuses.

    Ie hitting an armor plate would do reduced damage, hitting anywhere else would do normal damage.
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    Come to think of it. I like that point. Kudos Revenge.
  • CowmonautCowmonaut Join Date: 2007-04-18 Member: 60670Members
    Damage reduction for hitting 'armor' (or carapace . . .) would definatley be the best way to show that. This is why suggestion forums are a good idea, Revenge might not have thought of it like that had this topic been posted!
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    Yeah, it was actually this thread that got me thinking about it. That and another thread about alien upgrades having visible effects on the alien models.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1622392:date=Apr 21 2007, 10:55 PM:name=Cowmonaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cowmonaut @ Apr 21 2007, 10:55 PM) [snapback]1622392[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Damage reduction for hitting 'armor' (or carapace . . .) would definatley be the best way to show that. This is why suggestion forums are a good idea, Revenge might not have thought of it like that had this topic been posted!
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    I couldn't agree more. Natural-Selection is community powered in a large respect. To be honest I'm not sure the NS developers have ever fully realized how much creative potential the community can truely offer. It's like drilling for oil, hard to find and efficently draw out, but once you do you end up with solid gold. And best of all it's adaptive. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    I dunno about that... I get the impression the prosumers blog was about that very issue.
  • AlphaWolfAlphaWolf Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12175Members
    edited April 2007
    A big problem with this IMO, regardless of gameplay issues, is that it would rely too heavily upon the direction that the alien model is facing, which isn't always in the direction that the actual player is facing for alien models. And it isn't realistically feasible to make them always have a uniform direction without really messing up the animations.
  • Moving_Target0Moving_Target0 Join Date: 2006-12-21 Member: 59174Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1622581:date=Apr 23 2007, 03:52 PM:name=AlphaWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AlphaWolf @ Apr 23 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]1622581[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    A big problem with this IMO, regardless of gameplay issues, is that it would rely too heavily upon the direction that the alien model is facing, which isn't always in the direction that the actual player is facing for alien models. And it isn't realistically feasible to make them always have a uniform direction without really messing up the animations.
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    Perhaps, then to match things up and balance, the onos would have a slow turn speed that was fixed? He is supposed to be giant, strong, and mean...
  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?&#33; Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    According to my PT contacts, they've actually tried locational damage for skulks before in a test build. The result was skulks getting slaughtered because headshots gave a damage multiplier.

    I could see generalized locational damage (Onos takes less damage from frontal attacks, getting hit from behind does more damage, etc), but I'm not sure if I want to see anything beyond that.
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    edited April 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1622691:date=Apr 24 2007, 12:35 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Apr 24 2007, 12:35 PM) [snapback]1622691[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    According to my PT contacts, they've actually tried locational damage for skulks before in a test build. The result was skulks getting slaughtered because headshots gave a damage multiplier.

    I could see generalized locational damage (Onos takes less damage from frontal attacks, getting hit from behind does more damage, etc), but I'm not sure if I want to see anything beyond that.
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    i'd think that skulks would be more damage resitat from the front, and only soft on their underneath rather than head

    EDIT : also i did like it in avp how you could blow off limbs on the aliens, how it would be cool to have that as part of the death animation - say just when a skulk gets to 0 HP, most people keep shooting another 2-10 bullets before they register its dead - so have it so once the skulk or other alien is considered dead the model would active a thingy which lets if be shot apart.
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    edited April 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1622581:date=Apr 24 2007, 03:52 AM:name=AlphaWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AlphaWolf @ Apr 24 2007, 03:52 AM) [snapback]1622581[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    A big problem with this IMO, regardless of gameplay issues, is that it would rely too heavily upon the direction that the alien model is facing, which isn't always in the direction that the actual player is facing for alien models. And it isn't realistically feasible to make them always have a uniform direction without really messing up the animations.
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    That is how the current alien models are animated, but there's nothing stopping the NS2 models from being animated differently. The only time this concern would apply is when you are discussing four-legged aliens that are large enough for locational damage to have a point (ie onos), and I see nothing wrong with onii strafing more slowly just so the animation will look right.
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