Gorges 101
LiteFireDark
Join Date: 2007-04-15 Member: 60643Members
Join Date: 2007-04-15 Member: 60643Members
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
Anyone have any new idea for our loveable friend the Gorge?
I personally have at least one or two?
1) The Gorge is sort of a sub-alien, meant as a supportive alien. Besides speccing right in CO's or hiding behind structures in NS's they, in my opinion, are lacking in the 'I am Gorge, hear me roar' type of attacking.
They're normal attacks may be kind of useless sometimes, so why not be able to upgrade to some sort of acidic spit that melts through armor/marines?
This could also bring along new play elements, as maybe the acid could burn through walls/floors/ladders/boxes?
2) The gorge has a web. So what? The enemy can get webbed and they can't do anything, but what happens if they have a welder/grenades? The web can be taken down instantly. Maybe there should be a new sort of potency to webs, making it harder for them to be taken down.
Maybe instead of taking the whole thing down make it so that even when they're 'destroyed', bits and pieces are still there (though less potent) that the marine can be trapped/stuck/ensnared in, slowing/stopping them completely or partially?
Also, with the web idea in mind, why not be able to web people up, requiring (as others have brought up) more teamwork in help to get the person down from the wall/ceiling (with perhaps a knife or welder)?
Those are my (general) ideas for the gorge.
Anyone have any other suggestions?
Anyone have any new idea for our loveable friend the Gorge?
I personally have at least one or two?
1) The Gorge is sort of a sub-alien, meant as a supportive alien. Besides speccing right in CO's or hiding behind structures in NS's they, in my opinion, are lacking in the 'I am Gorge, hear me roar' type of attacking.
They're normal attacks may be kind of useless sometimes, so why not be able to upgrade to some sort of acidic spit that melts through armor/marines?
This could also bring along new play elements, as maybe the acid could burn through walls/floors/ladders/boxes?
2) The gorge has a web. So what? The enemy can get webbed and they can't do anything, but what happens if they have a welder/grenades? The web can be taken down instantly. Maybe there should be a new sort of potency to webs, making it harder for them to be taken down.
Maybe instead of taking the whole thing down make it so that even when they're 'destroyed', bits and pieces are still there (though less potent) that the marine can be trapped/stuck/ensnared in, slowing/stopping them completely or partially?
Also, with the web idea in mind, why not be able to web people up, requiring (as others have brought up) more teamwork in help to get the person down from the wall/ceiling (with perhaps a knife or welder)?
Those are my (general) ideas for the gorge.
Anyone have any other suggestions?
Comments
On a side note, webbing people up would be cool. The only other thing I can think of would be the gorge being able to climb its webs, kinda like a spider...
To me, the gorge should be a support unit only. They can help a battle greatly by healing other lifeforms and can even aid on an assult by bile bombing. I think they are powerful enough as is. Your ideas are cool, but making gorges more battle capable just doesn't seem right to me.
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If I'm not mistaken, a big aim of NS2 will be to make players act more as a team. Yeah you can get an onos in there to attack and kill everyone, and he can get healed by our little friend <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /> , but what happens when the onos is down and the gorge is left to fend for himself whilst waiting for reinforcements, what sort of ability does he have in a group besides trying to throw down a few webs HOPING to slow/stop his chasers.
Of course he could build a DC/OC/SC to try to help, but what does that do besides slow down the enemy without actually taking them out (OC excluded)? He should be able to have some sort of crowd/powerful damaging attack (kind of like a bile bomb against marines), don't you think?
Take out, say, bile bomb. Give the gorge webs at hive 2 and babblers at hive 3 (or the other way around?)
Give BileBomb to, say, the lerk in place of primal scream. Give it twice the damage it has now, and 1/4 damage to players, but have it have a five second rate of fire.
Give Primal Scream back to the onos in place of devour. Replace Stomp with the Paralyze it used to have.
There you go <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Give BileBomb to, say, the lerk in place of primal scream. Give it twice the damage it has now, and 1/4 damage to players, but have it have a five second rate of fire.
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ROFL sounds like a bomber.
I think we'd all miss watching the inside of an onos stomach...well, maybe not, but still.
Don't replace devour, replace stomp! Primal > Stomp. Besides, onoses devouring is a fun thing to have.
I think we'd all miss watching the inside of an onos stomach...well, maybe not, but still.
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I agree.
I also agree with the idea of losing the Gorge's bilebomb and giving it to the lerk.
It'd make a whole new playstyle with the lerk available.
It would also make the lerk more deadly for assaults on the marine base.
It would give Marines a reason to go after Lerks just as fast as, say..a fade?
Any other ideas anyone?
Double the value of the onos Armor and double it's inherent Regeneration. Make it feared... make it big... make it expensive too. Make it like the old 1.04 onos was <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Get rid of devour... seriously. Stomp gets replaced by Paralyze (which affects jetpackers if you can hit them) and Primal in place of Devour.
Double the value of the onos Armor and double it's inherent Regeneration. Make it feared... make it big... make it expensive too. Make it like the old 1.04 onos was <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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Why get rid of devour? It's one of my favorite parts of the onos! And it also is the source for a lot of marine jokes. Replacing stop with a paralyze move is a little lame, to be honest, since it's the same thing except more effective, and primal in place of devour? Bah! Just eat them and do it yourself without paralyze!
While devour is useful, it is boring. I dont mind staying out of the game for a little bit, but I do not want to stare inside of a stomach. I would rather spec.
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You don't always stay in there for the full time. Besides, it's quite fun for the alien players. Maybe that could be an option, to spec while you're in the onos' stomach.
I worry about the gorge, it has two EQUALLY important roles in my mind:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#009900--><span style="color:#009900"><!--/coloro-->Healer Class<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> & <b><!--coloro:#6600CC--><span style="color:#6600CC"><!--/coloro-->Builder Class<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
That's what makes it so essential. I don't care that much for "battle gorges" to be honest, and I find them to be more of a joke or a means of humilation than an actual offensive tactic.
Webbing people would be very cool indeed, provided it took teamwork.
I worry about the gorge, it has two EQUALLY important roles in my mind:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#009900--><span style="color:#009900"><!--/coloro-->Healer Class<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> & <b><!--coloro:#6600CC--><span style="color:#6600CC"><!--/coloro-->Builder Class<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
That's what makes it so essential. I don't care that much for "battle gorges" to be honest, and I find them to be more of a joke or a means of humilation than an actual offensive tactic.
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Try rushing to old c12 or any other hallway node while there are a couple of skulks waiting and a gorge spitting and you'll see how far from a joke it is <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> . The spits get you below 75 hp before you even reach the node and after that the bite gets you down to 0. Plus you can't see the skulks that good because the gorge is spitting like a MG42.
Still that's not the norm. That involves specific terrain, several players teamworking, and preferably MCs for adrenaline.
I'm talking about the all the time role. Battle gorge is not an all the time role. You can't solo a bunch of competent marines. A good attack class can.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
Anyone have any new idea for our loveable friend the Gorge?
I personally have at least one or two?
1) The Gorge is sort of a sub-alien, meant as a supportive alien. Besides speccing right in CO's or hiding behind structures in NS's they, in my opinion, are lacking in the 'I am Gorge, hear me roar' type of attacking.
They're normal attacks may be kind of useless sometimes, so why not be able to upgrade to some sort of acidic spit that melts through armor/marines?
This could also bring along new play elements, as maybe the acid could burn through walls/floors/ladders/boxes?
2) The gorge has a web. So what? The enemy can get webbed and they can't do anything, but what happens if they have a welder/grenades? The web can be taken down instantly. Maybe there should be a new sort of potency to webs, making it harder for them to be taken down.
Maybe instead of taking the whole thing down make it so that even when they're 'destroyed', bits and pieces are still there (though less potent) that the marine can be trapped/stuck/ensnared in, slowing/stopping them completely or partially?
Also, with the web idea in mind, why not be able to web people up, requiring (as others have brought up) more teamwork in help to get the person down from the wall/ceiling (with perhaps a knife or welder)?
Those are my (general) ideas for the gorge.
Anyone have any other suggestions?
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Well, the gorge is already really useful. as the_x5 already mentioned, it's a builder and a healer class. Overpowering the gorge just means that everything else has to get rebalanced against it.
If you read any of the recent interviews of the Team Fortress 2 staff, you notice how much they base the game on the class <b>differences</b>, they wanted to make the roles less similar than in Team Fortress Classic. Enabling the gorge to be a serious contender to other alien classes as a fighting class makes the gorge to much of a generalist instead of a specialist.
<i>I vote for keeping/increasing specific and dissimilar roles for the different classes.</i>
Gorges need a more interesting life, but not by giving them direct combat skills. Flayra go play guildwars:factions. When you spawn in town, look at some of the pvp going on (I think the hotkey is b or o). Specifically mesmers, monks, and sorcerers.
They've set up a very dynamic life for the support classes, pay special attention to Ageis and Reverse Damage if protection-monks are still being used. I'm not saying the gorge should be a commander, but gorges don't make the marines wake up and change their plans when they see one.
While gorges should remain diverse, right now they're not really part of gameplay on any serious level, they're in the back setting up props, and with the way alien resources work now, I don't think that's a good design.
Perhaps spit should have an acid effect on HA - it'll slowly eat it away for 5 seconds so if you spit a HA 4 times, it will eat away the same ammount of damage for 20 seconds, while this won't kill them it will sure as hell make them stand there and weld each other for bloody ages <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
i would of thought a focus gorge could f'up heavies pretty easily, except for the fact that they can weld.
Perhaps spit should have an acid effect on HA - it'll slowly eat it away for 5 seconds so if you spit a HA 4 times, it will eat away the same ammount of damage for 20 seconds, while this won't kill them it will sure as hell make them stand there and weld each other for bloody ages <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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That's honestly the idea I was trying to get out in the open.
Kind of like CO maps XMenu mod where Lerk gas damages heavies more.
Maybe Gorges could have a sort of 'acid' against HA's.
And I'm not asking to make the Gorge a 'battle ready' alien,
but at least give the gorge more of an ability to stand up near
the lines just in case the Gorge DOES need to build/heal
closer to enemies.
Too many times have I seen a Gorge's 'Builder Class' get nulled
by a simple grenade launcher or three.
This would force them to revert to 'healer class' which it is
very capable of doing, indeed, but hard nontheless when
you're staring down HMG's or Shotguns blazing ammunition
and slugs into your hide as you're trying to heal the onos, fades
or the occasional skulks (or other gorges).
Anyone understand what I'm saying?
Enabling the gorge to be a serious contender to other alien classes as a fighting class makes the gorge to much of a generalist instead of a specialist.
<i>I vote for keeping/increasing specific and dissimilar roles for the different classes.</i>
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Great point! Ok, to making the alien classes more specialist and less generalist:
vote <b><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
Bilebomb should deteriorate marine armor. End of story.
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That's kind of the idea i was getting at.
I'd like it if the gorge had a variety of heals. I'd like to see gorges able to get healing upgrades wih resources and/or experience (in this case measured in points of daamge healed). It would alter gameplay in a positive way if people started realizing and protecting the "healers" better.
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Perhaps as a reward for staying gorge for a period of time, you could permanently unlock certain gorge skills, assuming you have 1 hive up. There could be advanced healing that was used for things such as onoses and hives, and the only way to unlock this is to heal X amount of damage done to structures / aliens. Note, this wouldn't include damage done to itself, as to avoid exploits.
For instance....
Normal healspray: low adren cost. Heals at normal rate.
Adv. Healspray: Required 500 damage healed total. Heals at 1.1x rate
etc...all the way up to, perhaps, 2x healing for a gorge that has been healing for the whole game.
Not only would they be more valuable to the team as a gorge, but they might also have a better offensive. This would also make their bases, when they were present, harder to kill. There, of course, would be some kind of marine counter to this. Perhaps the flamethrower, if included.
I'd like it if the gorge had a variety of heals. I'd like to see gorges able to get healing upgrades wih resources and/or experience (in this case measured in points of daamge healed). It would alter gameplay in a positive way if people started realizing and protecting the "healers" better.
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Perhaps as a reward for staying gorge for a period of time, you could permanently unlock certain gorge skills, assuming you have 1 hive up. There could be advanced healing that was used for things such as onoses and hives, and the only way to unlock this is to heal X amount of damage done to structures / aliens. Note, this wouldn't include damage done to itself, as to avoid exploits.
For instance....
Normal healspray: low adren cost. Heals at normal rate.
Adv. Healspray: Required 500 damage healed total. Heals at 1.1x rate
etc...all the way up to, perhaps, 2x healing for a gorge that has been healing for the whole game.
Not only would they be more valuable to the team as a gorge, but they might also have a better offensive. This would also make their bases, when they were present, harder to kill. There, of course, would be some kind of marine counter to this. Perhaps the flamethrower, if included.
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That's another great idea, in my opinion.
It would make it so that if a player is a full-time gorge, they
at least get <b>some</b> kind of extra benefit for being a
"Team Player" and being the one going around healing
everyone else's sorry behinds.
It would also help for making games longer and more strategic,
in which case the gorge would flip from someone's sub target
to a few people's MAIN target, seeing as he's going to be the one
behind the lines healing everyone that retreats back to him.
Anyone else's thoughts on this since we're now a hot topic?
BB damaging marines (or at least their armour) has been suggested many many times. I agree with it but then you just gave a wep that could strip an entire team of it's armour in just a few shots.
I would suggest that the effective ness of OCs be upped, or they be removed and replaced with something akin to the sporemine mod seen on some servers. For those who haven't seen this mod, gorges can drop up to 4 little bombs, that if stepped on sends a spore cloud up that does alot of damage very fast. It can easly kill, or injure a marine so badly even a lone gorge with no chambers can take out a couple of rines at once.
Down side is you only get 4. Though it could be altered so the bomb require res to build, or that if placing more than 4, the first one dropped dissapears.
Great for defence, but doesn't make the gorge that strong at attacking.