Make the menu button mouse3 instead of mouse2

Pikminwars

<div class="IPBDescription">To allow a secondary fire option</div>Discuss whether or not secondary fire should be added.

KainTSA

I'm sure if they want to have secondary fire options, changing the standard menu button is not going to be a big obstacle...

If you want a real thread, why not discuss whether or not secondary fire should be added? I'd say weapon secondary fire might be an interesting tech to research.

<b>LMG:</b>
Shoot hand grenades that you already have instead of having to throw them
<b>SG:</b>
Spread fire
<b>GL:</b>
Rounds that explode on contact with walls/floor instead of bouncing
<b>HMG:</b>
Extremely rapid fire with loss of accuracy
<b>Flamethrower <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> :</b>
Lay napalm down that can be ignited later
<b>Welder</b>
Burn away small areas of hive infestation

Svenpa

<!--quoteo(post=1620320:date=Apr 11 2007, 09:53 PM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Apr 11 2007, 09:53 PM) [snapback]1620320[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I'm sure if they want to have secondary fire options, changing the standard menu button is not going to be a big obstacle...

If you want a real thread, why not discuss whether or not secondary fire should be added? I'd say weapon secondary fire might be an interesting tech to research.

<b>LMG:</b>
Shoot hand grenades that you already have instead of having to throw them
<b>SG:</b>
Spread fire
<b>GL:</b>
Rounds that explode on contact with walls/floor instead of bouncing
<b>HMG:</b>
Extremely rapid fire with loss of accuracy
<b>Flamethrower <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> :</b>
Lay napalm down that can be ignited later
<b>Welder</b>
Burn away small areas of hive infestation
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

LMG: Dosnt make sense
SG: Bloody pointless
GL: Designed the way it is for a reason
HMG: Goodbye to fades and onis, unless EXTREME loss of accuracy but then it's pointless
Flamethrower: Let's wait and see shall we?
Welder: Just make it do both on primary fire?

On topic: Make the alt fire bindable to any button and the problem is solved.

KainTSA

Why doesn't the LMG grenade fire make sense? It would be a big advantage to launch nades without having to switch, prime, and throw. But you only get as many nades as you would normally spawn with so it doesn't turn the LMG into a substitute GL.

The GL is the way it is for some reasons, but being able to detonate on contact with a wall/floor would be advantageous in some situations (EG. leading out a skulk)

As for HMG, the fire would be extremely innacurate but useful when an Onos/fade is right in your face. It would be an advantage, that's why it would have to be a researchable tech.

Pikminwars

What if the comm had to research each secondary fire option, and only one could be in use at a time? That'd add strategy >_>

Bigbio2002

I already have the menu bound to mouse3 (I use mouse2 for +movement). Secondary fire would just complicate things though.

I've seen games with a button for secondary fire, a button for zoom (even though some weapons have a secondary fire zoom fearure), a button for a tripod or whatever, and then you have to make sure youre crouched, with a grenade primed, with your gun in single-shot tripod mode to be able to activate the scope and launch the grenade, and it just gets to be confusing...

My opinion: one mode of fire is adequate. We just need more weapons to spice things up.

Abaddon0

as Svenpa said, yeah... no.

the GL is nerfed the way it is for a reason, it's anti structure, not anti troop, it would be over powered otherwise.

same with the LMG, you have to search to the grenade to make it anti structure not anti troop.

Svenpa

<!--quoteo(post=1620329:date=Apr 11 2007, 10:08 PM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Apr 11 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]1620329[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
As for HMG, the fire would be extremely innacurate but useful when an Onos/fade is right in your face. It would be an advantage, that's why it would have to be a researchable tech.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In this case "useful" means overpowered, especially now when number of hives dosn't increase your armor effectiveness.

Makeing secondary fire a research is just wrong.

Erdman

how about you click on a binded key with the cmd (CHANGEGUNMODE) and you're marine flips the knife down, more damage, less speed, or presses a button on a pistol for laser, even maybe grenade throw distence, or on a machine gun, change to semi, auto, or single( 1 shot per click)

Svenpa

<!--quoteo(post=1620740:date=Apr 13 2007, 06:03 PM:name=Erdman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Erdman @ Apr 13 2007, 06:03 PM) [snapback]1620740[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
how about you click on a binded key with the cmd (CHANGEGUNMODE) and you're marine flips the knife down, more damage, less speed, or presses a button on a pistol for laser, even maybe grenade throw distence, or on a machine gun, change to semi, auto, or single( 1 shot per click)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I dont think the problem is how to add secondary fire. It's WHAT to add which makes sense and isnt overpowered.

CoolCookieCooks

I hate my mouse3, I usually trigger the mouseup/mousedown buttons before I get to the button inside in the mouse.

the_x5

<!--quoteo(post=1620370:date=Apr 11 2007, 06:34 PM:name=Pikminwars)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pikminwars @ Apr 11 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]1620370[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What if the comm had to research each secondary fire option
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Or make secondy fire a single research item, that'd be cool too. I'd like the idea of it being researchable though.

To CoolCookiesCook:

Mouse 1: +attack
Mouse 2: +movement <-- secondary fire here
Mouse 3: +voicerecord
Mouse 4: impulse 201 (flashlight)
Mouse 5: +popupmenu

Rokiyo

Bleh... Secondary fire is over-rated... It's like dual wielding pistols or knives. It looks cool when used sparingly, but when every person on your team is doing it, it gets old pretty quickly.

the_x5

Overrated? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> I think it could add to a more dynamic gameplay. It's how it's implemented that affects whether it's fun and useful or overrated and boring. It's all in the implementation. But don't rule it out Revenge just because you've seen some "meh" examples from some games.

Secondary fire opens new possibilities. Whether it causes a soldier to shoot a double shot, chnges fire mode, causes the soldier to tighten his aim (Like in GRAW and GRAW2), fire a special round like a grenade or dark energy ball (HL & HL2), swing a melee strike, zoom the sniper scope, open a menu to modify weapon options on the fly (as in the Crye demo), detonate a charge (like a satchel), etc...

Rokiyo

When I call it overrated, I mean it's "alright" as opposed to "awesome". I certainly did not mean to imply that it was a bad thing.

Some weapons go well with secondary fire modes. Using a secondary fire button to control sniper rifle zooming, or using weapon attachments such as bayonets or grenade launchers, is perfectly fine in my opinion. A secondary fire button that defaults to a melee attack when the weapon itself does not have a second function would also be just fine in my opinion.

What I have a problem with is when every single weapon has a secondary fire mode invented for it just for the sake of it having one. I'm talking about secondary fire modes that just shoot 2 or 3 times at once or in short succession.

LiteFireDark

<!--quoteo(post=1622235:date=Apr 20 2007, 09:32 PM:name=Revenge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Revenge @ Apr 20 2007, 09:32 PM) [snapback]1622235[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Bleh... Secondary fire is over-rated... It's like dual wielding pistols or knives. It looks cool when used sparingly, but when every person on your team is doing it, it gets old pretty quickly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Or..maybe..perhaps the secondary for pistol could be the knife itself (swinging it)?

It would be pretty cool and useful to have your knife on the ready when you have your pistol out
(reminiscent of Solid Snake/Big Boss in MGS:3 - Snake Eater).


Anyone agree?

I also agree with Erdman on the gunmodes.

An LMG with burst/auto is a useful sounding add/upgrade (maybe change
the original firing mode to burst fire and ability to upgrade
[for a low amount of resources] to a full-auto LMG?)

<b>Pistol</b>: Faster firing rate (reminiscent of HL1's pistol perhaps?)
<b>SG</b>: Make the normal fire cone smaller than it is,
and perhaps make the (secondary) fire mode a MUCH wider
cone of fire (a bit bigger than NS1's cone) with a faster rire
rate and ammo consumption/usage?
<b>HMG</b>: The faster speed sounds nice, but thinking about it
I realized it's an HMG, not an Unreal Tournament chaingun/minigun.
Perhaps give the HMG a sort of tripod/stand (deploying it, not PRONE)?
<b>GL</b>: Kind of partial to the idea of a DOC (detonate on contact) grenade mode.
<b>Knife</b>: Also kind of partial to the idea of a stab instead of a slice,
perhaps making it MUCH more damaging if stabbed in a (vital) certain hitbox perhaps?

Sorry..just throwing up my ideas/suggestions on the topic.

Svenpa

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> An LMG with burst/auto is a useful sounding add/upgrade (maybe change
the original firing mode to burst fire and ability to upgrade
[for a low amount of resources] to a full-auto LMG?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As the lmg has quite high rpm but low damage it would be fatal to make full auto a research.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>Pistol</b>: Faster firing rate (reminiscent of HL1's pistol perhaps?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The pistol is semi auto and is only limited to your clicking speed (hence the use of pistol burst scripts).

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>SG</b>: Make the normal fire cone smaller than it is,
and perhaps make the (secondary) fire mode a MUCH wider
cone of fire (a bit bigger than NS1's cone) with a faster rire
rate and ammo consumption/usage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Smaller? are you going to snipe with it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Makeing it wider with faster fireing rate isnt balanced by larger consumption of ammo, if you deal enough damage on a short period of time you wont be hurt by reloading as the attacking alien probably is dead.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>HMG</b>: The faster speed sounds nice, but thinking about it
I realized it's an HMG, not an Unreal Tournament chaingun/minigun.
Perhaps give the HMG a sort of tripod/stand (deploying it, not PRONE)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I like this, if you can determine where a alien comes from before it's in view you can do serious damage as it appears while depending on cover from behind. The lack of railings and such is a problem though.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>GL</b>: Kind of partial to the idea of a DOC (detonate on contact) grenade mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Partial what?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>Knife</b>: Also kind of partial to the idea of a stab instead of a slice,
perhaps making it MUCH more damaging if stabbed in a (vital) certain hitbox perhaps? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

One idea at a time.

Haze

I like the idea of secondary fire. It makes every weapon a bit more complex and fun to use. I don't understand the argument against it, because frankly it makes no sense to not have a secondary fire if we could.