IMO the simplest and most effective change to NS would be to make the right-click default as +movement. Its simply phenomenal, and really unleashes the potential of the function. I beg of everyone, try it even just for one round. It takes a second to rebind. I used the hud_fastswitch for 3 years, and thought i'd definitely go back after trying +mov on the mouse. HELLS NO. Its way, way better.
It's much easier to just right click and left click and right click to get away, then to left click, press 2 then left click then 1 to left click. Fading has become a lot easier.
Heh well over the last 2 years my fingers have got fast enough with using lastinv (mouse3), 1-4 and invprev being on mouse2 (Yes I have a ###### up config, not so anymore now I changed to wasd after i broke my arrow keys xD) that there is no difference in speed between +movement and my standard config, if anyone sees me fade it just looks like I use +movement anyway, even though I don't (after every blink I hit lastinv to switch back to swipe).
<!--quoteo(post=1617835:date=Mar 30 2007, 07:34 AM:name=Laggasaurus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Laggasaurus @ Mar 30 2007, 07:34 AM) [snapback]1617835[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you implying that giving aliens +movement is like giving them an awp with burst fire? And on a slight point no not everyone has to use it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1617723:date=Mar 29 2007, 05:05 PM:name=Harrower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harrower @ Mar 29 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1617723[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I like +movement ... I don't like the lack of airspeed in lifeforms. They could have been nerfed in a [better] way, through health or armor or with some unique disadvantage that only they posessed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahhh right, well fade's still have their air speed, they just lost some acceleration. Although the difference is very small once you learn how long you have to hold +attack for. On the lerk side of things they needed to be slowed, the skill difference between the good lerks and a normal pubber was too big to make a decrease in health feasable.
I agree as well. I would like the lerk to be handled in the same way that the fade had been - make it EASIER and more accessible to players and that would in turn limit the distance between good and normal players. +movement is a great example of how this can be done.
I thought the naysayers were all going on about the lerk being too nerfed.
I always thought the 3.2 lerk was just fine.
You cant really talk about the lerk needing to be easier, thats just plain skill. Look up and tap space. The faster you tap, the faster you gain speed. Its not hard.
<!--quoteo(post=1618538:date=Apr 2 2007, 09:50 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Apr 2 2007, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1618538[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You cant really talk about the lerk needing to be easier, thats just plain skill. Look up and tap space. The faster you tap, the faster you gain speed. Its not hard. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't that seem unnecessarily complicated to a newbie though?
EDIT: I mean, that alone isn't too complicated, but throw in a marine shooting at you and irregular level geometry to watch out for...
<!--quoteo(post=1618549:date=Apr 3 2007, 12:00 AM:name=DumbMarine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DumbMarine @ Apr 3 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]1618549[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Doesn't that seem unnecessarily complicated to a newbie though?
EDIT: I mean, that alone isn't too complicated, but throw in a marine shooting at you and irregular level geometry to watch out for... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point. This goes back to that learning curve debate.
<!--quoteo(post=1618538:date=Apr 2 2007, 07:50 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Apr 2 2007, 07:50 PM) [snapback]1618538[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I thought the naysayers were all going on about the lerk being too nerfed.
I always thought the 3.2 lerk was just fine. You cant really talk about the lerk needing to be easier, thats just plain skill. Look up and tap space. The faster you tap, the faster you gain speed. Its not hard. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Nah, just because YOU think lerk is fine doesn't mean that something can't be done to help EVERYONE ELSE. I don't get it. You're for +movement, which is something that helps the entire community, then you act selfish and justify the lerk because YOU ignore everybody else.
We need to stop contradicting ourselves now.
The game should continue in the direction of +movement, which is lessening the learning curve. It's a great addition because it helps EVERYBODY, not just the elites or the pubs.
Well... Let's say I can't think of any improvements to make lerking easier unless you add a pancake script that flies up'n'down with a single command or something like that. Lerk is all good in my opinion, because it can be useful with just sporing. After sporing the player can start trying to play more and more aggressive. Fades were a bit different since they're supposed to frag and there's not really a stepping stone for it. On the other hand skulks are useful biting down the res and parasiting and still quite many seem to think they're useless. Some good tutorials might really help.
E: Hmh... Maybe making parasite +movement at 1 hive would make skulking a bit easier. Doesn't improve 2-hive gaming in any way though.
What could +movement possibly do for the lerk? It's a fairly simple system, people just don't understand the idea of vertical dodging or don't quite get the concept that shotguns will ruin you if you don't play sensibly. Unless you want +movement to do a barrel roll, shut up.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Some time ago I suggested that +movement triggers a doubejump for the lerk. This way new players can accelerate faster without needing mwheel or 2jump.
<!--quoteo(post=1618600:date=Apr 3 2007, 07:02 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 3 2007, 07:02 AM) [snapback]1618600[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Nah, just because YOU think lerk is fine doesn't mean that something can't be done to help EVERYONE ELSE. I don't get it. You're for +movement, which is something that helps the entire community, then you act selfish and justify the lerk because YOU ignore everybody else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is he acting selfishly because he thinks the lerk is fine? As has been said before, many times, this is an FPS game, at some point it becomes about skill.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We need to stop contradicting ourselves now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'We'?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game should continue in the direction of +movement, which is lessening the learning curve. It's a great addition because it helps EVERYBODY, not just the elites or the pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, there is a giant learning curve. There's only so much that can be done though.
The lerk has certain facets to it. First, its fast. Second, it flies. Third, it has an Area Of Effect (AoE) weapon, Spore.
The only way we could `lessen the learning curve`would be to make the lerk`s acceleration speed easier to obtain; much like what someone mentioned, with +movement being a spam of either 2 or 3 jumps.
Aside from that, what else could possibly be done to make it easier for sucky players, without necessarily removing from the quality potential gameplay of the lerk?
The problems for new/sucky players are that: -the lerk is too fast for them to be able to control it properly -they dont know the maps well enough to not snag on things -they get smoked because they don't evade properly
But what are the things that new/sucky players can do, and do very well, with the lerk? -spore (especially with adren) -umbra lifeforms/the hive
So basically, to be a pro lerk, you have to know the maps, understand the simple concepts of dodging as a lerk (making use of 3d movement, completely avoiding any linear movement), know and use the glide/freelook controls, and have very quick reflexes for those high-speed moments.
But thats a completely different game than what new/sucky players can use the lerk for. Pros can play very offensively, whipping around and mashing marines; using BITE. New/sucky players can have another focus; SPORE.
So really, the learning curve is there, but its optional. Anyone can play lerk, have a blast, get a bunch of kills, and phenomenally help the team, all through sporing.
If they want to step it up to a more pro skill level, they can practice all those facets i mentioned, which focuses a lot more on BITE. The devs could possibly lower the learning curve by doing that +movement-equals-2-jumps thing, but frankly, that will make the pro lerks that much better too.
The conclusion? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the learning curve of the lerk. If you suck at the pro-style of lerking, revert and stay at the nub style, and you can still do your part and more for the team.
Its a shame you can't think things through like this smood. Please at least try to next time.
**EDIT: Lol my god, could you imagine if +movement DID do a barrel roll for the lerk? Where anytime you're flying (with an appropriate cooldown), you hit +movement, and you basically did a quick ~? That would be pretty cool. Just one second or so of an evasion move; instead of flying directly straight along your path, the mouse would lock, and youre model/hitbox would kindof do a circle around your crosshair. That would be insanely fun, and really cool to watch.
the idea grew on me as a i wrote it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
BTW, I use mousewheel for fast lerk flapping and jump for slow flying. I find this easier, but because it's a personal preference, I wouldn't dream of suggesting it be default.
i second the barrel roll! unless bullets reflect off the lerk, i dont know what it would do. maybe a boost in forward speed and smaller hitbox? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
or maybe +movement could allow strafing since some people want it so much.
Comments
The only thing i can say is skulks are to weak they need a slight boost to either armor or speed.
It's much easier to just right click and left click and right click to get away, then to left click, press 2 then left click then 1 to left click. Fading has become a lot easier.
<!--quoteo(post=1617723:date=Mar 29 2007, 05:05 PM:name=Harrower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harrower @ Mar 29 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1617723[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I like +movement ... I don't like the lack of airspeed in lifeforms. They could have been nerfed in a [better] way, through health or armor or with some unique disadvantage that only they posessed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought the 3.2 lerk was just fine.
You cant really talk about the lerk needing to be easier, thats just plain skill. Look up and tap space. The faster you tap, the faster you gain speed. Its not hard.
You cant really talk about the lerk needing to be easier, thats just plain skill. Look up and tap space. The faster you tap, the faster you gain speed. Its not hard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't that seem unnecessarily complicated to a newbie though?
EDIT: I mean, that alone isn't too complicated, but throw in a marine shooting at you and irregular level geometry to watch out for...
Doesn't that seem unnecessarily complicated to a newbie though?
EDIT: I mean, that alone isn't too complicated, but throw in a marine shooting at you and irregular level geometry to watch out for...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point. This goes back to that learning curve debate.
I thought the naysayers were all going on about the lerk being too nerfed.
I always thought the 3.2 lerk was just fine.
You cant really talk about the lerk needing to be easier, thats just plain skill. Look up and tap space. The faster you tap, the faster you gain speed. Its not hard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Nah, just because YOU think lerk is fine doesn't mean that something can't be done to help EVERYONE ELSE. I don't get it. You're for +movement, which is something that helps the entire community, then you act selfish and justify the lerk because YOU ignore everybody else.
We need to stop contradicting ourselves now.
The game should continue in the direction of +movement, which is lessening the learning curve. It's a great addition because it helps EVERYBODY, not just the elites or the pubs.
E: Hmh... Maybe making parasite +movement at 1 hive would make skulking a bit easier. Doesn't improve 2-hive gaming in any way though.
This way new players can accelerate faster without needing mwheel or 2jump.
Nah, just because YOU think lerk is fine doesn't mean that something can't be done to help EVERYONE ELSE. I don't get it. You're for +movement, which is something that helps the entire community, then you act selfish and justify the lerk because YOU ignore everybody else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is he acting selfishly because he thinks the lerk is fine? As has been said before, many times, this is an FPS game, at some point it becomes about skill.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We need to stop contradicting ourselves now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'We'?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game should continue in the direction of +movement, which is lessening the learning curve. It's a great addition because it helps EVERYBODY, not just the elites or the pubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, there is a giant learning curve. There's only so much that can be done though.
The lerk has certain facets to it. First, its fast. Second, it flies. Third, it has an Area Of Effect (AoE) weapon, Spore.
The only way we could `lessen the learning curve`would be to make the lerk`s acceleration speed easier to obtain; much like what someone mentioned, with +movement being a spam of either 2 or 3 jumps.
Aside from that, what else could possibly be done to make it easier for sucky players, without necessarily removing from the quality potential gameplay of the lerk?
The problems for new/sucky players are that:
-the lerk is too fast for them to be able to control it properly
-they dont know the maps well enough to not snag on things
-they get smoked because they don't evade properly
But what are the things that new/sucky players can do, and do very well, with the lerk?
-spore (especially with adren)
-umbra lifeforms/the hive
So basically, to be a pro lerk, you have to know the maps, understand the simple concepts of dodging as a lerk (making use of 3d movement, completely avoiding any linear movement), know and use the glide/freelook controls, and have very quick reflexes for those high-speed moments.
But thats a completely different game than what new/sucky players can use the lerk for. Pros can play very offensively, whipping around and mashing marines; using BITE. New/sucky players can have another focus; SPORE.
So really, the learning curve is there, but its optional. Anyone can play lerk, have a blast, get a bunch of kills, and phenomenally help the team, all through sporing.
If they want to step it up to a more pro skill level, they can practice all those facets i mentioned, which focuses a lot more on BITE. The devs could possibly lower the learning curve by doing that +movement-equals-2-jumps thing, but frankly, that will make the pro lerks that much better too.
The conclusion? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the learning curve of the lerk. If you suck at the pro-style of lerking, revert and stay at the nub style, and you can still do your part and more for the team.
Its a shame you can't think things through like this smood. Please at least try to next time.
**EDIT:
Lol my god, could you imagine if +movement DID do a barrel roll for the lerk? Where anytime you're flying (with an appropriate cooldown), you hit +movement, and you basically did a quick ~? That would be pretty cool. Just one second or so of an evasion move; instead of flying directly straight along your path, the mouse would lock, and youre model/hitbox would kindof do a circle around your crosshair. That would be insanely fun, and really cool to watch.
BTW, I use mousewheel for fast lerk flapping and jump for slow flying. I find this easier, but because it's a personal preference, I wouldn't dream of suggesting it be default.
unless bullets reflect off the lerk, i dont know what it would do. maybe a boost in forward speed and smaller hitbox? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
or maybe +movement could allow strafing since some people want it so much.
I almost ALMOST like the idea of bullets bouncing off while you're rolling. Something should change at least.