I know this isnt quiet the place to post this, but I just thought of a fix to CoD's insane ramblings about MT(other than giving him the back of the hand.)
Fix MT so it doesnt have range. Make it work only 50ft infront of you. And I know you have to avoid certain copyright violations, but a little pulsed timer on the updates would be cool too, and only have it off to the side.
Maybe I should just go play AvP2...oh wait, filled with hackers and no more support. NVM.
Without reading anything you said rapier, im pretty sure you aren't ambushing marines. Skulks are not meant to be tanks they are meant to be stealthy attacks which pray on marines when they are least expecting it. Close quarters unless your terrible marines will almost always die. And for anyone who is new skulking and having the same problem, look around at your favorite maps for nooks and cranys to lay in wait for the unsuspecting marine. Somtimes the most obvious locations are like around sharp turning corner. And by being on the ground around said random corner you don't have to drop off the roof while loosing time on killing said prey.
Ammo already slows you down. So does other equipment.
I've seen you play before, and you did not strike me as particularly good at marines. If you are able to get a 5:1, it is because you are dealing with bad skulks who try to walk up to you across an open field and probably because you aren't the point man. People need to understand skulks are opportunitists - getting into a fight where the marine has a clear line of fire at you and some distance means you will probably lose. The solution is not to buff skulks because you don't know how to skulk, but to learn how to skulk. I am not a particularly good skulk, but I can manage to kill some of the best marines by ambushing and attacking in groups.
Skulks had bad hitboxes in pretty much all the updates before this one, a bunny hopping skulk could go head on against a bad to moderate marine and have a fair chance of taking him down thanks to crappy hitboxes and only half reg.
Now the hitboxes are fixed, shots magically reg, and that bunny-hopping skulk that would of taken down that normal marine is now dead and rapier is saying that this is wrong and fundamentally ruining his game by making skulks easier to kill.
I'm not going to say if he's right or he's wrong, once marines get mt up skulks at 1 hive are vastly diminished in effectiveness anyway, but I'm not sure how much the devs knew they were changing things by fixing the hitboxes on lifeforms.
All that aside, parasite more, use teamwork, cause distractions to make them waste ammo, and attack from multiple directions.
<!--quoteo(post=1612240:date=Mar 7 2007, 06:44 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Mar 7 2007, 06:44 PM) [snapback]1612240[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> More unintentional irony.
Ammo already slows you down. So does other equipment.
I've seen you play before, and you did not strike me as particularly good at marines. If you are able to get a 5:1, it is because you are dealing with bad skulks who try to walk up to you across an open field and probably because you aren't the point man. People need to understand skulks are opportunitists - getting into a fight where the marine has a clear line of fire at you and some distance means you will probably lose. The solution is not to buff skulks because you don't know how to skulk, but to learn how to skulk. I am not a particularly good skulk, but I can manage to kill some of the best marines by ambushing and attacking in groups. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm assuming the bigger paragraph was ment for RApier.
Yea, I know what you mean by ammo already slowing you down..(if you mean in the "Team spends 10 minutes humping the armory sense) - it needs to have a more tangable effect though. Although if they did tihs I would miss having free ammo whenever the armory humpers go off to die.
No no, he means in the "makes you run slower" sense of "slows you down". Every piece of equipment you carry reduces your run speed, some more than others. Try running down a hall with a fully loaded shotty next to a marine with just an LMG. He'll beat you by a mile.
Really? never seem to have that problem. Odd. <random joke here about it being because LMGers trip overthemselves to try to get HMGers Killed) Well its a good change, but needs to be more affective! Lolz.
How many games have you played (before NS) where you point at stuff and shoot? My guess is quite a few.
How many games have you played (before NS) where you're an ambushing melee-based lifeform? I guess, 1-2 MAX (if you've played the AVP-series. Thief doesn't count because it's gameplay is completely different).
Pick your fights well; never assault a marine if you're not certain you'll take him down. Go around the marines instead of straight at them, even if it takes a bit longer running across half the map. Ambush them and hit them when the reload/look at the other direction.
Of course you're able to kill 3-4 skulks with an LMG and a pistol of the assault you down a corridor. <b>You're supposed to be.</b> You killed those skulks because they didn't play properly; they let you chose the situation in which they attacked you. Bad move, learn from it and don't do it again.
Skulking is about thinking more than anything else. That and aiming bites (and I'll say it again. Don't jump when you're in close combat with a marine. It will make you easier to hit (you jump into his viewpoint) and you lose momentum. The only time when you should make a (glide)jump is when the marine is quite a bit away from you. If you do all this, I can promise you that dodging (crackjumping?!) marines won't be a problem to you in the future.
A good rule of thumb to remember when playing alien in general is this; "Given the same situation as a marine, would I come out on top or not?". If the answer is that you would, you're an idiot to go in in the first place and deserve to die.
I'm a bad skulk now, even by my previously bad standards , and I don't even know what the hell it is you're all complaining about. You must truely suck at this game and be stupid to boot if you're not be able to get any kills what so ever.
<!--quoteo(post=1612234:date=Mar 7 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Femme_Fatale)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Femme_Fatale @ Mar 7 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1612234[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> lerks pulling games? fades pulling games? where the hell have you been hiding your face? up your ######?
this game relys more on teamwork than anything. especially now that aliens got modded. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Teamwork? If you actually play some games of pubns, you'll find that it's the 2-3 good players that actually decide the game for either team.
The first game of release 3.2 I played was on lucid and I was in second place on the alien team with 9-22 score. But we had an uber onos/fade Jaytan who won the game for us. So please, get this fake "TEAMWORK" mentality out of your system, because frankly, it doesn't exist.
You can have skulks on RTs and whatever, but if you don't have someone who can match the skills of someone else on the other team, you are going to lose. That's why a few jps can make the game because of THEIR own skill. You don't need someone else to aim. They are just some more bullets into YOUR target.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a populist here. Power to the people. I want to see more emphasis on skulks being a more viable fighting unit instead of NEEDING 1 or 2 or even three UBERLEET fades and lerks to fight marines. Skulks are worthless on their own. And it's because of a large disparity between the marine and the skulk that should be corrected.
But that's usually what happens. And it's great for those who are good at the game, but it's crappy for everybody else. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going to agree, but why vent right now? It's been like this since... well when blink was first introduced. Seems like I was the only one back then who talked about it.
You must be confused. Blink has existed since before 1.04. To the best of my knowledge, Fades have <i>always</i> had blink. If it indeed was ever "added", it was so far in the past that even the die-hard 1.04 lovers can't remember what the game was like without it.
Blink defines the Fade. Removing Blink isn't a change to the Fade...it requires the creation of an entirely new alien to fill the slot. It might still be <i>called</i> a Fade, and it might still even cost 50 res, but it wouldn't be the same creature any more.
That would be a bigger change than taking spikes away from the Lerk and giving them bite, and that totally changed the way Lerks were played.
<!--quoteo(post=1612241:date=Mar 7 2007, 02:45 PM:name=Priestly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Priestly @ Mar 7 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]1612241[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Skulks had bad hitboxes in pretty much all the updates before this one, a bunny hopping skulk could go head on against a bad to moderate marine and have a fair chance of taking him down thanks to crappy hitboxes and only half reg.
Now the hitboxes are fixed, shots magically reg, and that bunny-hopping skulk that would of taken down that normal marine is now dead and rapier is saying that this is wrong and fundamentally ruining his game by making skulks easier to kill.
I'm not going to say if he's right or he's wrong, once marines get mt up skulks at 1 hive are vastly diminished in effectiveness anyway, but I'm not sure how much the devs knew they were changing things by fixing the hitboxes on lifeforms.
All that aside, parasite more, use teamwork, cause distractions to make them waste ammo, and attack from multiple directions. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All lifeform hitboxes are the same in 3.2 as they were in 3.1. The lifeform hitboxes have been fixed for a while now. (I think it was in one of the 3.0 betas) The only hitbox changes made in 3.2 were marine buildings, the RT, armory, PG, TF, sieges.
That being said, the last line of your post is good advice.
<!--quoteo(post=1612417:date=Mar 7 2007, 07:04 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Mar 7 2007, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1612417[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You must be confused. Blink has existed since before 1.04. To the best of my knowledge, Fades have <i>always</i> had blink. If it indeed was ever "added", it was so far in the past that even the die-hard 1.04 lovers can't remember what the game was like without it.
Blink defines the Fade. Removing Blink isn't a change to the Fade...it requires the creation of an entirely new alien to fill the slot. It might still be <i>called</i> a Fade, and it might still even cost 50 res, but it wouldn't be the same creature any more.
That would be a bigger change than taking spikes away from the Lerk and giving them bite, and that totally changed the way Lerks were played. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sigh, if you are going to take things so literally, it's going to make things longer.
Fades were acid rockets back then. Blink was some buggy ability that got you stuck and you would never use.
Then it changed.
Blink became the fade.
So no, I'm not saying that blink has never existed. But you have to realize there were two completely different abilities named blink. So yes, blink or rather the new blink was added.
<!--quoteo(post=1612241:date=Mar 7 2007, 01:45 PM:name=Priestly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Priestly @ Mar 7 2007, 01:45 PM) [snapback]1612241[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Now the hitboxes are fixed, shots magically reg, and that bunny-hopping skulk that would of taken down that normal marine is now dead and rapier is saying that this is wrong and fundamentally ruining his game by making skulks easier to kill. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> uh, no changes were made to the skulk 3.1 -> 3.2
The old blink was THE SH**! I couldnt imagine if we still had that. Sure, you could get stuck easily, but you could also be careful with them. Heck, it was INSTANT teleport. That ability these days, with these fades, would be ridiculous.
<!--quoteo(post=1612429:date=Mar 7 2007, 07:53 PM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Mar 7 2007, 07:53 PM) [snapback]1612429[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> uh, no changes were made to the skulk 3.1 -> 3.2 <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dunno about hitbox changes but I reg 50x better in 3.2 against skulks on all servers. it's rare that I don't kill less than 3 walker/pubhop skulks with lmg clip now, even on laggy servers. Everything else seems the samethough.
<!--quoteo(post=1612424:date=Mar 7 2007, 09:28 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 7 2007, 09:28 PM) [snapback]1612424[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Sigh, if you are going to take things so literally, it's going to make things longer.
Fades were acid rockets back then. Blink was some buggy ability that got you stuck and you would never use.
Then it changed.
Blink became the fade.
So no, I'm not saying that blink has never existed. But you have to realize there were two completely different abilities named blink. So yes, blink or rather the new blink was added. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you had to learn how to use Blink properly without getting stuck in walls. And it was a <i>little</i> buggy, especially near certain types of textures. But once you got used to it the old Blink was a pretty powerful ability. Point, click, and instantly arrive whereever you want! For example, you could teleport to the ground directly BEHIND a marine in front of you, so as to smack him in the back with swipre, then teleport away again before anyone could shoot you.
The only reason Blink wasnt used more was that it was a 2-Hive ability, and the 2nd Hive had a nasty habit of being killed by JPs shortly after you egged to go Fade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
But thats not the point. The point is that Blink, in both of its varieties, was a substantial part of the Fade's mobility. You want to replace it with an ability that does not promote mobility. That forces the Fade to rely solely on its walk speed for mobility, something it has never had to do in the history of NS, and was never designed to do.
Skulks can climb on walls, or use leap to get around. Lerks can fly. Fades blink. Version 1.04 fades with only 1 Hive at least had the option of hanging out in the back and using ranged attacks until they could clear a Hive. But removing Blink now would simply make Fades a small version of the Onos. The Onos already has very niche use, as the only Alien combat unit that has no way of enhancing its mobility (short of 3 Hives), and still has to get next to a marine to attack him, but at least it serves as a good seige weapon. There's no reason to crowd that niche with another lifeform that wouldnt even be any good at it.
<!--quoteo(post=1612416:date=Mar 8 2007, 03:55 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 8 2007, 03:55 AM) [snapback]1612416[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Teamwork? If you actually play some games of pubns, you'll find that it's the 2-3 good players that actually decide the game for either team.
The first game of release 3.2 I played was on lucid and I was in second place on the alien team with 9-22 score. But we had an uber onos/fade Jaytan who won the game for us. So please, get this fake "TEAMWORK" mentality out of your system, because frankly, it doesn't exist.
You can have skulks on RTs and whatever, but if you don't have someone who can match the skills of someone else on the other team, you are going to lose. That's why a few jps can make the game because of THEIR own skill. You don't need someone else to aim. They are just some more bullets into YOUR target. I'm going to agree, but why vent right now? It's been like this since... well when blink was first introduced. Seems like I was the only one back then who talked about it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh please. whine less about pubs. between alien players teamwork actually exists. just because you hang around on bad pubs,doesnt mean i do.
<!--quoteo(post=1612416:date=Mar 7 2007, 09:55 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 7 2007, 09:55 PM) [snapback]1612416[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You can have skulks on RTs and whatever, but if you don't have someone who can match the skills of someone else on the other team, you are going to lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> what the hell is wrong with this? a single good player can turn the tide in almost any game.
Some interesting thoughts brewing about... here are mine:
-Marine movement not realistic enough?<ul><li>I agree with the marine stamina idea. Aliens have a speed cut with carapace, marines should have a similar drawback (HA is NOT a counter argument!)</li><li>Marine bunny-hopping/crack-jumping should have been fixed ages ago. How many times have you approached a marine only to have him notice you and jump backwards FASTER than you can move forward? It is quite ridiculous in terms of realism and play mechanics. This is by FAR my number one suggestion to 'help' the skulk balancing situation.</li></ul>
-Skulks needs more life/speed?<ul><li>Yes and No. Early game, I believe the skulk HP situation is adequate. Yes, there are plenty of games where one lone marine can spawn camp, but I believe that is related to marine movement being flawed (see above). Late games are a different story, very high damage marine weapons coupled with area-effect weapons, not to mention the thick armor makes it very hard for a skulk to really be a large threat.</li></ul> -In conclusion<ul><li>Fix or get rid of Marine bunny hopping/crack-jumping</li><li>REMOVE the carapace penalty for skulks. There's a reason why nobody does DC first anymore. Carapace is practically the only DC chamber solution for a skulk (regenerating 4 hit points means nothing in a battle, redemption skulk? I don't think so)</li></ul> On a side note, why did they devs decide to implement the chamber upgrade restrictions again? I don't remember what version that was, but man was it great to have 2 carapace and 1 regen. the good ole days....
<!--quoteo(post=1612477:date=Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM:name=Injuis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Injuis @ Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]1612477[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Aliens have a speed cut with carapace, marines should have a similar drawback (HA is NOT a counter argument!) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> they already are slowed by guns/ammo <!--quoteo(post=1612477:date=Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM:name=Injuis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Injuis @ Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]1612477[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How many times have you approached a marine only to have him notice you and jump backwards FASTER than you can move forward? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> you can glide jump as a skulk too but okay
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited March 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1612477:date=Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM:name=Injuis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Injuis @ Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]1612477[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->REMOVE the carapace penalty for skulks. There's a reason why nobody does DC first anymore. Carapace is practically the only DC chamber solution for a skulk (regenerating 4 hit points means nothing in a battle, redemption skulk? I don't think so)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Carapace only ever provided a speed penalty in, if I recall correctly, some of the private 1.1/2.0 betas. It received some publicity there, but was removed before any public release and certainly doesn't exist now.
<!--quoteo(post=1612474:date=Mar 7 2007, 11:04 PM:name=Femme_Fatale)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Femme_Fatale @ Mar 7 2007, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1612474[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> oh please. whine less about pubs. between alien players teamwork actually exists. just because you hang around on bad pubs,doesnt mean i do. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...but don't you play on G4B2S?
<!--quoteo(post=1612477:date=Mar 8 2007, 07:14 AM:name=Injuis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Injuis @ Mar 8 2007, 07:14 AM) [snapback]1612477[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Some interesting thoughts brewing about... here are mine: ...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Realism isn't part of ns. Go play some non-scifi fps if you want realism.
Sure the marine movement is quite annoying for the beginner skulks, but the movement is really a part of the ns. I'd be bored to death if the marine game was all about aiming at skulks. Positioning, game understanding and movement really make it more interesting. At the moment ns is one of the few games that doesn't promote camping and defensive gameplay by limiting movement. Already the fade blink change allowed marines play a lot more passive since the aliens can't increase in power so quickly. I wonder what marine movement limitation would do. Even I can make some right calls in various situations if the game gets any slower.
<!--quoteo(post=1612454:date=Mar 8 2007, 06:41 AM:name=coolstory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coolstory @ Mar 8 2007, 06:41 AM) [snapback]1612454[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i dunno about hitbox changes but I reg 50x better in 3.2 against skulks on all servers. it's rare that I don't kill less than 3 walker/pubhop skulks with lmg clip now, even on laggy servers. Everything else seems the samethough. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The changes made was in the transition between 3.0-3.1 where skulks automaticlly have wallwalking disabled (+duck) when they're parallell to the floor. This made the skulk hitbox align with the model and thus removing the prior ability to zaiko-skulk.
<!--quoteo(post=1612501:date=Mar 8 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Mar 8 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1612501[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ...but don't you play on G4B2S? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes. your point being ? i see people cooperating there.
and a definition of a public server : a server that has no password. so what you basically are saying is. you dont like to play NS. at all. i just dont like ppl WHINING about nonstop dumb pubbers. its a frigging game.people play roles of x and y no matter what. this patch if anything teaches people that teamplay and coop is more important than ever.
so please instead of flaming me, take a good long look in the mirror. it all starts with yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1612475:date=Mar 7 2007, 11:06 PM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Mar 7 2007, 11:06 PM) [snapback]1612475[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> what the hell is wrong with this? a single good player can turn the tide in almost any game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm saying that the combat skills of twitch-aiming or twitch-fading are more important than doing other tasks, because you gain territory, res and time with these twitch skills, rather than just making a RT that can be knifed and so on. It's not just that a good player shouldn't win. It's just that he wins because he HIMSELF is extremely good at aiming or fading, regardless of what his team does. I've done it with new players. I've seen it in more competitive servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1612525:date=Mar 8 2007, 12:25 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 8 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]1612525[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm saying that the combat skills of twitch-aiming or twitch-fading are more important than doing other tasks, because you gain territory, res and time with these twitch skills, rather than just making a RT that can be knifed and so on. It's not just that a good player shouldn't win. It's just that he wins because he HIMSELF is extremely good at aiming or fading, regardless of what his team does. I've done it with new players. I've seen it in more competitive servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that a contradiction? A good player should win, but he shouldn't win because he's skilled? Then why should he win?
A good player can't win without his team. He can't singlehandedly destroy an entire team and then knife the hive. He still neds RTs, upgrades and a team to help/back him up. A good marine, however, will be more effective at defending nodes and gaining territory, which will lead the entire team to a victory. You can't win a game of NS by yourself. Racking up kills isn't the most important aspect of NS, but rather playing the res-game right and doing the most important things. That might be securing locations or defending a siege-position, which will get you kills. It might also be capping RTs.
Brains is the absolute most important thing in NS. If you play smart you can rack up loads of easy kills simply because the situations where you encounter the enemy is where you have the upper hand.
I wish it was, but unfortunately, no matter how much "brain power" you have, if you can't aim at a flying fade or skulk hop, you won't get anywhere. You need to be physically skilled in order to go into higher lifeforms, drop rts and eventually drop the hive. Physical reflexes are what NS is about, which is the same as CS and all other FPS mods.
So again, it's the 50-4 fades that keep the marines away long enough for the hive to go up or that stop the pg+siege that would have ended the game. It's the 30-6 marines that generate 90% of the marine res that supports the upgrades, equipment and structures. It's those few players that determine the game.
I've been in games with newer players. I rack up kills, go onos, kill marine start, over. Then there are people better than me in other servers who get those amazing scores and swing the game for their team. My first 3.2 game actually had everyone in our team with scores of 9-22. We had one player who had 60-7 that stopped all the phase pushes, rts and what not by himself. He went from fade to onos.
As much as I would like a game where we all work as a team, it doesn't exist. Both teams are about the 1 or 2 guys that again, generate 90% of res. If they aren't there, than the team is doomed from the start. You aren't going to get kills, that stop pushes and give you res. Physical skill dominates whatever mental skills this game requires.
Comments
Fix MT so it doesnt have range. Make it work only 50ft infront of you. And I know you have to avoid certain copyright violations, but a little pulsed timer on the updates would be cool too, and only have it off to the side.
Maybe I should just go play AvP2...oh wait, filled with hackers and no more support. NVM.
-Lego-
Ammo already slows you down. So does other equipment.
I've seen you play before, and you did not strike me as particularly good at marines. If you are able to get a 5:1, it is because you are dealing with bad skulks who try to walk up to you across an open field and probably because you aren't the point man. People need to understand skulks are opportunitists - getting into a fight where the marine has a clear line of fire at you and some distance means you will probably lose. The solution is not to buff skulks because you don't know how to skulk, but to learn how to skulk. I am not a particularly good skulk, but I can manage to kill some of the best marines by ambushing and attacking in groups.
Now the hitboxes are fixed, shots magically reg, and that bunny-hopping skulk that would of taken down that normal marine is now dead and rapier is saying that this is wrong and fundamentally ruining his game by making skulks easier to kill.
I'm not going to say if he's right or he's wrong, once marines get mt up skulks at 1 hive are vastly diminished in effectiveness anyway, but I'm not sure how much the devs knew they were changing things by fixing the hitboxes on lifeforms.
All that aside, parasite more, use teamwork, cause distractions to make them waste ammo, and attack from multiple directions.
More unintentional irony.
Ammo already slows you down. So does other equipment.
I've seen you play before, and you did not strike me as particularly good at marines. If you are able to get a 5:1, it is because you are dealing with bad skulks who try to walk up to you across an open field and probably because you aren't the point man. People need to understand skulks are opportunitists - getting into a fight where the marine has a clear line of fire at you and some distance means you will probably lose. The solution is not to buff skulks because you don't know how to skulk, but to learn how to skulk. I am not a particularly good skulk, but I can manage to kill some of the best marines by ambushing and attacking in groups.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm assuming the bigger paragraph was ment for RApier.
Yea, I know what you mean by ammo already slowing you down..(if you mean in the "Team spends 10 minutes humping the armory sense) - it needs to have a more tangable effect though. Although if they did tihs I would miss having free ammo whenever the armory humpers go off to die.
How many games have you played (before NS) where you point at stuff and shoot? My guess is quite a few.
How many games have you played (before NS) where you're an ambushing melee-based lifeform? I guess, 1-2 MAX (if you've played the AVP-series. Thief doesn't count because it's gameplay is completely different).
Pick your fights well; never assault a marine if you're not certain you'll take him down. Go around the marines instead of straight at them, even if it takes a bit longer running across half the map. Ambush them and hit them when the reload/look at the other direction.
Of course you're able to kill 3-4 skulks with an LMG and a pistol of the assault you down a corridor. <b>You're supposed to be.</b> You killed those skulks because they didn't play properly; they let you chose the situation in which they attacked you. Bad move, learn from it and don't do it again.
Skulking is about thinking more than anything else. That and aiming bites (and I'll say it again. Don't jump when you're in close combat with a marine. It will make you easier to hit (you jump into his viewpoint) and you lose momentum. The only time when you should make a (glide)jump is when the marine is quite a bit away from you. If you do all this, I can promise you that dodging (crackjumping?!) marines won't be a problem to you in the future.
A good rule of thumb to remember when playing alien in general is this; "Given the same situation as a marine, would I come out on top or not?".
If the answer is that you would, you're an idiot to go in in the first place and deserve to die.
lerks pulling games?
fades pulling games?
where the hell have you been hiding your face?
up your ######?
this game relys more on teamwork than anything.
especially now that aliens got modded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Teamwork? If you actually play some games of pubns, you'll find that it's the 2-3 good players that actually decide the game for either team.
The first game of release 3.2 I played was on lucid and I was in second place on the alien team with 9-22 score. But we had an uber onos/fade Jaytan who won the game for us. So please, get this fake "TEAMWORK" mentality out of your system, because frankly, it doesn't exist.
You can have skulks on RTs and whatever, but if you don't have someone who can match the skills of someone else on the other team, you are going to lose. That's why a few jps can make the game because of THEIR own skill. You don't need someone else to aim. They are just some more bullets into YOUR target.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a populist here. Power to the people. I want to see more emphasis on skulks being a more viable fighting unit instead of NEEDING 1 or 2 or even three UBERLEET fades and lerks to fight marines. Skulks are worthless on their own. And it's because of a large disparity between the marine and the skulk that should be corrected.
But that's usually what happens. And it's great for those who are good at the game, but it's crappy for everybody else. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going to agree, but why vent right now? It's been like this since... well when blink was first introduced. Seems like I was the only one back then who talked about it.
Blink defines the Fade. Removing Blink isn't a change to the Fade...it requires the creation of an entirely new alien to fill the slot. It might still be <i>called</i> a Fade, and it might still even cost 50 res, but it wouldn't be the same creature any more.
That would be a bigger change than taking spikes away from the Lerk and giving them bite, and that totally changed the way Lerks were played.
Skulks had bad hitboxes in pretty much all the updates before this one, a bunny hopping skulk could go head on against a bad to moderate marine and have a fair chance of taking him down thanks to crappy hitboxes and only half reg.
Now the hitboxes are fixed, shots magically reg, and that bunny-hopping skulk that would of taken down that normal marine is now dead and rapier is saying that this is wrong and fundamentally ruining his game by making skulks easier to kill.
I'm not going to say if he's right or he's wrong, once marines get mt up skulks at 1 hive are vastly diminished in effectiveness anyway, but I'm not sure how much the devs knew they were changing things by fixing the hitboxes on lifeforms.
All that aside, parasite more, use teamwork, cause distractions to make them waste ammo, and attack from multiple directions.
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All lifeform hitboxes are the same in 3.2 as they were in 3.1. The lifeform hitboxes have been fixed for a while now. (I think it was in one of the 3.0 betas) The only hitbox changes made in 3.2 were marine buildings, the RT, armory, PG, TF, sieges.
That being said, the last line of your post is good advice.
You must be confused. Blink has existed since before 1.04. To the best of my knowledge, Fades have <i>always</i> had blink. If it indeed was ever "added", it was so far in the past that even the die-hard 1.04 lovers can't remember what the game was like without it.
Blink defines the Fade. Removing Blink isn't a change to the Fade...it requires the creation of an entirely new alien to fill the slot. It might still be <i>called</i> a Fade, and it might still even cost 50 res, but it wouldn't be the same creature any more.
That would be a bigger change than taking spikes away from the Lerk and giving them bite, and that totally changed the way Lerks were played.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sigh, if you are going to take things so literally, it's going to make things longer.
Fades were acid rockets back then. Blink was some buggy ability that got you stuck and you would never use.
Then it changed.
Blink became the fade.
So no, I'm not saying that blink has never existed. But you have to realize there were two completely different abilities named blink. So yes, blink or rather the new blink was added.
Now the hitboxes are fixed, shots magically reg, and that bunny-hopping skulk that would of taken down that normal marine is now dead and rapier is saying that this is wrong and fundamentally ruining his game by making skulks easier to kill.
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uh, no changes were made to the skulk 3.1 -> 3.2
uh, no changes were made to the skulk 3.1 -> 3.2
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i dunno about hitbox changes but I reg 50x better in 3.2 against skulks on all servers. it's rare that I don't kill less than 3 walker/pubhop skulks with lmg clip now, even on laggy servers. Everything else seems the samethough.
Sigh, if you are going to take things so literally, it's going to make things longer.
Fades were acid rockets back then. Blink was some buggy ability that got you stuck and you would never use.
Then it changed.
Blink became the fade.
So no, I'm not saying that blink has never existed. But you have to realize there were two completely different abilities named blink. So yes, blink or rather the new blink was added.
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Well, you had to learn how to use Blink properly without getting stuck in walls. And it was a <i>little</i> buggy, especially near certain types of textures. But once you got used to it the old Blink was a pretty powerful ability. Point, click, and instantly arrive whereever you want! For example, you could teleport to the ground directly BEHIND a marine in front of you, so as to smack him in the back with swipre, then teleport away again before anyone could shoot you.
The only reason Blink wasnt used more was that it was a 2-Hive ability, and the 2nd Hive had a nasty habit of being killed by JPs shortly after you egged to go Fade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
But thats not the point. The point is that Blink, in both of its varieties, was a substantial part of the Fade's mobility. You want to replace it with an ability that does not promote mobility. That forces the Fade to rely solely on its walk speed for mobility, something it has never had to do in the history of NS, and was never designed to do.
Skulks can climb on walls, or use leap to get around. Lerks can fly. Fades blink. Version 1.04 fades with only 1 Hive at least had the option of hanging out in the back and using ranged attacks until they could clear a Hive. But removing Blink now would simply make Fades a small version of the Onos. The Onos already has very niche use, as the only Alien combat unit that has no way of enhancing its mobility (short of 3 Hives), and still has to get next to a marine to attack him, but at least it serves as a good seige weapon. There's no reason to crowd that niche with another lifeform that wouldnt even be any good at it.
Teamwork? If you actually play some games of pubns, you'll find that it's the 2-3 good players that actually decide the game for either team.
The first game of release 3.2 I played was on lucid and I was in second place on the alien team with 9-22 score. But we had an uber onos/fade Jaytan who won the game for us. So please, get this fake "TEAMWORK" mentality out of your system, because frankly, it doesn't exist.
You can have skulks on RTs and whatever, but if you don't have someone who can match the skills of someone else on the other team, you are going to lose. That's why a few jps can make the game because of THEIR own skill. You don't need someone else to aim. They are just some more bullets into YOUR target.
I'm going to agree, but why vent right now? It's been like this since... well when blink was first introduced. Seems like I was the only one back then who talked about it.
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oh please.
whine less about pubs.
between alien players teamwork actually exists.
just because you hang around on bad pubs,doesnt mean i do.
You can have skulks on RTs and whatever, but if you don't have someone who can match the skills of someone else on the other team, you are going to lose.
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what the hell is wrong with this? a single good player can turn the tide in almost any game.
-Marine movement not realistic enough?<ul><li>I agree with the marine stamina idea. Aliens have a speed cut with carapace, marines should have a similar drawback (HA is NOT a counter argument!)</li><li>Marine bunny-hopping/crack-jumping should have been fixed ages ago. How many times have you approached a marine only to have him notice you and jump backwards FASTER than you can move forward? It is quite ridiculous in terms of realism and play mechanics. This is by FAR my number one suggestion to 'help' the skulk balancing situation.</li></ul>
-Skulks needs more life/speed?<ul><li>Yes and No. Early game, I believe the skulk HP situation is adequate. Yes, there are plenty of games where one lone marine can spawn camp, but I believe that is related to marine movement being flawed (see above). Late games are a different story, very high damage marine weapons coupled with area-effect weapons, not to mention the thick armor makes it very hard for a skulk to really be a large threat.</li></ul>
-In conclusion<ul><li>Fix or get rid of Marine bunny hopping/crack-jumping</li><li>REMOVE the carapace penalty for skulks. There's a reason why nobody does DC first anymore. Carapace is practically the only DC chamber solution for a skulk (regenerating 4 hit points means nothing in a battle, redemption skulk? I don't think so)</li></ul>
On a side note, why did they devs decide to implement the chamber upgrade restrictions again? I don't remember what version that was, but man was it great to have 2 carapace and 1 regen. the good ole days....
Aliens have a speed cut with carapace, marines should have a similar drawback (HA is NOT a counter argument!)
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they already are slowed by guns/ammo
<!--quoteo(post=1612477:date=Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM:name=Injuis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Injuis @ Mar 8 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]1612477[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
How many times have you approached a marine only to have him notice you and jump backwards FASTER than you can move forward?
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you can glide jump as a skulk too but okay
Carapace only ever provided a speed penalty in, if I recall correctly, some of the private 1.1/2.0 betas. It received some publicity there, but was removed before any public release and certainly doesn't exist now.
oh please.
whine less about pubs.
between alien players teamwork actually exists.
just because you hang around on bad pubs,doesnt mean i do.
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...but don't you play on G4B2S?
Some interesting thoughts brewing about... here are mine:
...
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Realism isn't part of ns. Go play some non-scifi fps if you want realism.
Sure the marine movement is quite annoying for the beginner skulks, but the movement is really a part of the ns. I'd be bored to death if the marine game was all about aiming at skulks. Positioning, game understanding and movement really make it more interesting. At the moment ns is one of the few games that doesn't promote camping and defensive gameplay by limiting movement. Already the fade blink change allowed marines play a lot more passive since the aliens can't increase in power so quickly. I wonder what marine movement limitation would do. Even I can make some right calls in various situations if the game gets any slower.
i dunno about hitbox changes but I reg 50x better in 3.2 against skulks on all servers. it's rare that I don't kill less than 3 walker/pubhop skulks with lmg clip now, even on laggy servers. Everything else seems the samethough.
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The changes made was in the transition between 3.0-3.1 where skulks automaticlly have wallwalking disabled (+duck) when they're parallell to the floor. This made the skulk hitbox align with the model and thus removing the prior ability to zaiko-skulk.
...but don't you play on G4B2S?
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yes.
your point being ?
i see people cooperating there.
and a definition of a public server :
a server that has no password.
so what you basically are saying is.
you dont like to play NS.
at all.
i just dont like ppl WHINING about nonstop dumb pubbers.
its a frigging game.people play roles of x and y no matter what.
this patch if anything teaches people that teamplay and coop is more important than ever.
so please instead of flaming me, take a good long look in the mirror.
it all starts with yourself.
what the hell is wrong with this? a single good player can turn the tide in almost any game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm saying that the combat skills of twitch-aiming or twitch-fading are more important than doing other tasks, because you gain territory, res and time with these twitch skills, rather than just making a RT that can be knifed and so on. It's not just that a good player shouldn't win. It's just that he wins because he HIMSELF is extremely good at aiming or fading, regardless of what his team does. I've done it with new players. I've seen it in more competitive servers.
I'm saying that the combat skills of twitch-aiming or twitch-fading are more important than doing other tasks, because you gain territory, res and time with these twitch skills, rather than just making a RT that can be knifed and so on. It's not just that a good player shouldn't win. It's just that he wins because he HIMSELF is extremely good at aiming or fading, regardless of what his team does. I've done it with new players. I've seen it in more competitive servers.
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Isn't that a contradiction? A good player should win, but he shouldn't win because he's skilled? Then why should he win?
A good player can't win without his team. He can't singlehandedly destroy an entire team and then knife the hive. He still neds RTs, upgrades and a team to help/back him up. A good marine, however, will be more effective at defending nodes and gaining territory, which will lead the entire team to a victory. You can't win a game of NS by yourself. Racking up kills isn't the most important aspect of NS, but rather playing the res-game right and doing the most important things. That might be securing locations or defending a siege-position, which will get you kills. It might also be capping RTs.
Brains is the absolute most important thing in NS. If you play smart you can rack up loads of easy kills simply because the situations where you encounter the enemy is where you have the upper hand.
So again, it's the 50-4 fades that keep the marines away long enough for the hive to go up or that stop the pg+siege that would have ended the game. It's the 30-6 marines that generate 90% of the marine res that supports the upgrades, equipment and structures. It's those few players that determine the game.
I've been in games with newer players. I rack up kills, go onos, kill marine start, over. Then there are people better than me in other servers who get those amazing scores and swing the game for their team. My first 3.2 game actually had everyone in our team with scores of 9-22. We had one player who had 60-7 that stopped all the phase pushes, rts and what not by himself. He went from fade to onos.
As much as I would like a game where we all work as a team, it doesn't exist. Both teams are about the 1 or 2 guys that again, generate 90% of res. If they aren't there, than the team is doomed from the start. You aren't going to get kills, that stop pushes and give you res. Physical skill dominates whatever mental skills this game requires.