I still see Nothing being played all the time, funny that.
My suggestion list:
-Fix gen elevator -add the route from cargo to via west (maybe even have it come up under the elevator in Gen, or nearby, so its not too close to via?) -make it so you can only siege one of intim and via west node's from gen (just move via west north?) -leave RR -add vents and more interesting architecture to halls around PS -maybe add a big column in the middle of PS, from floor to ceiling? could help even it out while keeping the fun factor of the room -add a few of the vents mentioned but dont go overboard... maybe a (marine useable) vent route from top of Quad to right of Intim -perhaps a route from Fore to a balcony over the right side of Intim... too many two-way routes for rines and you really lose the flow
<!--quoteo(post=1610732:date=Mar 2 2007, 03:29 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Mar 2 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]1610732[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I still see Nothing being played all the time, funny that.
My suggestion list:
-Fix gen elevator -add the route from cargo to via west (maybe even have it come up under the elevator in Gen, or nearby, so its not too close to via?) -make it so you can only siege one of intim and via west node's from gen (just move via west north?) -leave RR -add vents and more interesting architecture to halls around PS -maybe add a big column in the middle of PS, from floor to ceiling? could help even it out while keeping the fun factor of the room -add a few of the vents mentioned but dont go overboard... maybe a (marine useable) vent route from top of Quad to right of Intim -perhaps a route from Fore to a balcony over the right side of Intim... too many two-way routes for rines and you really lose the flow <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm great suggestions <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> yeah. thats one of the obvious reasons why they (the lifts) really have to go<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not like OC walls are hard to destroy anyway, the lifts don't really add much to it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1610866:date=Mar 3 2007, 02:00 AM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lofung @ Mar 3 2007, 02:00 AM) [snapback]1610866[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> one thing a bit off topic, UWE plans to have a map update patch? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There is discussion of an officially supported map-pack <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=100295" target="_blank">here</a>. We probably wouldn't release a map-only update since it would have to be both client and serverside, so you might as well include bug fixes, enhancements, etc. Especially since otherwise people wouldn't know which version of the maps that server had.
But this is really off-topic for what Ben was posting about.
I'm very intruiged by the change list you have laid out and I'd really like to see a change to the corridors around PS. I think doing "something" with the Foreboading res would be worth looking into. As-is it is a very difficult node for the Aliens to hold at the begining of the game.
aww... whatever you do though, keep in mind how much fun it is to camp up top on the sides, and wait for a rine to come along and start building the node <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. Only so many rooms give you such perfect cover.
I had some thoughts. In the unlikely event that my horrible paint skillz don't tell a perfect story, I'll explain:
Okay, to begin with <a href="http://%5dhttp://crispy.nuclear-dawn.net/Misc/ns_nothing_rework.PNG" target="_blank">here</a> is a <i>very rough</i> concept of some screens that would keep Marines from standing along the top of the walkway and gunning spawning aliens with impunity. These screens would extend high enough to stop Marines from using mines or eachother to leap on top of the screen, but would be open at the top to allow Aliens to have a slight advantage. Basically, from this position Marines would be forced through the gap in the screens (the new entrance to Via) if they wanted to get at the Hive, but Aliens could use either this or open top (apart from Gorges and Oni).
Next, instead of the large vacuuous space you currently have in Viaduct, imagine a large, tall platform in the centre with a bridge extending to it from the new entrance between the screens. I've tried (failed) to draw this in pseudo-3D on the screen pic, but the layout below shows it better.
When you pass through the new entrance you have three paths to choose from. - Go straight across the bridge - Go left and down a winding (Onos-friendly) ramp to the floor of the room - Go right down a similar ramp
At the bottom you'll see the Hive attached to the back face of the central pillar platform. This puts it effectively on the other side of the room, forcing marines to enter the room to gun it down or setup their sieges in the corridor on the other sides of the screens. The Hive should have sufficient overhead cover to prevent GLs from sitting at the entrance and bouncing it into the Hive easily (+ it needs something to hang off).
Next up, the all-new second entrance to the Hive. This can be found halfway down the left ramp and leads off towards Cargo to connect up with the vent-turned-corridor that BigD mentioned earlier in this thread.
N.B. You can bilebomb the siege from the existing overhead walkway.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Ben, in the version shown in that layout picture, what are the hive walk-to times from MS given that those rooms are removed? Please include just walking and trickjumping times.
Well if you dont fall in the void because some corridors, walls etc are missing i'd imagine it'd be 30 seconds each. Basically run from miasma walkway to cargo and ice off 2 seconds because of a few changes i made. Then run from there to powersilo (with the lift down).
i like the layout/ideas from crispy, what do you think?
the only issue i can think of is "viaduct access west". Its like an alien-only rt. You have to go via cargo or if they got it as mainhive via viaduct. Thats not good IMO. Apart from that the viaduct layout looks great but it should remain jp friendly.
But I'm still not sure if I like the idea of ben placing MS @ miasma <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> Pair both suggestions?
would this map really be *that* bad if you made lift access points (particularly generator) bilable from over head vents? Oh and one of the nodes below generator should be moved out of siege position (I would recommend ominous)
Those two tiny tweaks and well... its a lot more interesting <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The only thing that would piss me off would be a redroom HA stalemate which is just uber BS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Okay so I cobbled together that layout in about 5 seconds (approximately), the main thing I wanted to bring to the table was the new Vent layout. I'm sure Ben's more than capable of figuring out the layout himself, although as BigD mentioned, better links to Cargo are a must.
1) Fix elevators so they can't be stopped by pressing the button again. <!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b><i>Yes</i></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. 2) Fix the platform in generator/remove it because it's stupid. <i><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, but meh...</i> 3) Delete redroom. <i><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro--><b>No</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->! Please don't remove a famous feature. That's what happened to ns_bast, remember? Or have you forgotten that already. I can understand removing the "lork clorf" from ns_hera I guess... (not that it wasn't hard to GL the lerk) But the Bast door and now the redroom! What the heck is wrong with it?</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> 4) Modify lifts so they're "ns_hera" style - offering a drop down with zero damage and a gap underneath so you can't get insta gibbed by the damage I'm going to add to stop you OC'ing the lift shaft <i><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Good idea. ^^</i>
<b>Potential</b>
1) Rework corridors and rooms around powersilo. <i><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Can you please make the walls and corners SMOOTH? (very wallwalkable)</i> 2) Rework viaduct (I like bigD's suggestion 10+ points to you) <i>Huh? </i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
add some vent to generator so its easyer to defend with aliens, if rines get in there its over, and some vent into ventilation (next to cargo) would be nice also
<!--quoteo(post=1611663:date=Mar 5 2007, 06:59 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Mar 5 2007, 06:59 PM) [snapback]1611663[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 3) Delete redroom. <i><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro--><b>No</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->! Please don't remove a famous feature. That's what happened to ns_bast, remember? Or have you forgotten that already. I can understand removing the "lork clorf" from ns_hera I guess... (not that it wasn't hard to GL the lerk) But the Bast door and now the redroom! What the heck is wrong with it?</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines get jps and into red room, game over unless every single alien stops what they are doing to go clear it... yet only uber fades need apply. Gassing it? You pretty much have to go inside it to gas anything worth gassing and two-three shotguns keep the lerks out pretty good. Skulks = fodder. Meanwhile one guy built the sieges and now via is dead. Gorges can't bile it so your fades have to solo the room pretty much to clear it out. 90% of the time, if you haven't got it clear before the pg goes up, the room stays in marine control for the rest of the game unless a smart fade goes in while the marines are all pushing a hive at once. It's simply a critical location that is inaccessible to most of the alien team. Redroom has = gg since 1.0.
I'm for keeping it as a vent that you can't build in, but nothing more. It's not <i>that</i> memorable. The rotating door in bast was all fancy with switches and moving doodads. This is a room. Not the most inspiring architecture of any map by any means either. As far as map defining structures go, Nothing has other far more interesting and memorable areas than red room.
To be honest I've never had <i>that</i> much trouble in typical public play where aliens had at least decent communication. It and it sounds like the real problem is that seiges can be built in it.
Anyways I can agree I guess with making it so that you can't build in it but because of what it was we should keep it. Why throw away our history? Some of these maps do have famous locations.
Red room would be a lot easier to take as aliens if the two Via vents to it werent single file. As such, a lerk can gas straight up, sure... but almost certainly gets blocked if anyone chases. Fix that, and RR will be fine as it is.
Red Room is salvageable. The primary problem is that the vents into RR all point vertically up, meaning Gorges are useless in clearing it and all other aliens have to climb up a long narrow shaft to reach marines.
Lower the altitude of the whole room, and it will be fine. Let the vents from Via open in the ceiling over Red Room, possibly even with multiple exits. Think the vents over Tram Tunnel on Bast. The shaft from the vent to the room should be very short, so you aren't exposed to fire very long, and Gorges can lob bile bombs into the room.
Besides Red Room, I support BigD's initial suggestion. Many of the later suggestions are trying to totally re-work nothing, when all it really needs is a tweak. Its already a pretty decent map.
Edit: MS Paint picture of what I'm suggesting for Red Room, side view. The Left side of the picture is the hallway into Viaduct, the right side is the hallway near Kismet that has the vent entrance to Red Room.
1. Move the RT in ventilation to threshold. Having the hive was already like having double res and a hive. I think this is needed. This also prevents siege from generator.
2. Remove the RT at gen. Gen is no doubt powerful to control. But the RT is too close to miasma, also giving it double res. You don't see two res near intimidation right?
3. Move the RT at omnious to intimidation. I feel this will shift the map more towards the right side of the map. This also prevents siege from generator.
4. Make a vent on the bottom of PS hive. Long hallways and such, I don't remember winning a hive siege from here. This vent will allow lerks to spore, gorges to bile and what not.
5. Make a vent on top of PS hive. I never use the vent that used to be here. This vent works like the other, so the aliens can get out of the hive other than the two big marine-death hallways.
6. Make Red Room unbuildable. I think this is the one vent that I actually think is useful in this map. Rather than remove it, if it were to be made unbuildable, it would still get use, but not an immediate gg after a jp gets into here.
<!--quoteo(post=1612401:date=Mar 8 2007, 02:21 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 8 2007, 02:21 AM) [snapback]1612401[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I like a lot of the changes, but I don't like how the map is getting smaller. <b>I'd like to be given some time as a gorge to drop a RT and skulk back.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's my take on the changes:
Erm, cargo is the best hive for aliens in the map.
Vent res essentially makes cargo double res, since they are only a couple feet across. Generators already a powerful area to control and the res makes it a given.
I've tried to push the map towards the right, since nothing seems more like whoever gets cargo/gen wins every game. If marines go towards the right more, that will give aliens more time on the left.
<!--quoteo(post=1612698:date=Mar 8 2007, 11:11 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 8 2007, 11:11 PM) [snapback]1612698[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Erm, cargo is the best hive for aliens in the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That doesn't necessarily make it a good Hive. Imo all the Hives on Nothing need reworking (in some cases perhaps not the Hive rooms themselves, but the way they link to the rest of the map).
Cargo is the best hive, because it's the one that is close to 3 res points, with 1 being a given, has no long open hallways and is close to generator.
Vent sucks because of the wide-open pathway, making pistol whipping a routine. The ladder prevents onos movement. The open area promotes jp use. Red room makes this hive even worse.
Power sucks because the two ways to enter it are long and wide, so again, skulks are marine fodder. Tall hive so jps fly around and kill. It's the furthest away from RTs. It takes so long to walk to other areas in the map.
I might have missed it, but I did see mention of the Cargo <b>"bug"</b>. Marines can place a structure in Cargo that prevents the aliens from dropping the hive - FIX ME.
Also, marines can hold 2 chokepoints at the top of elevators and seige all but 2 alien nodes when aliens don't have cargo. Maybe Generator should be altered so that you can't seige West and Ominous nodes.
We remove the RT at gen, devaluing the place. Then we move the rt as kismet to intimidation to get out of siege range from gen (as well as the RT in ventilation near cargo).
Comments
My suggestion list:
-Fix gen elevator
-add the route from cargo to via west (maybe even have it come up under the elevator in Gen, or nearby, so its not too close to via?)
-make it so you can only siege one of intim and via west node's from gen (just move via west north?)
-leave RR
-add vents and more interesting architecture to halls around PS
-maybe add a big column in the middle of PS, from floor to ceiling? could help even it out while keeping the fun factor of the room
-add a few of the vents mentioned but dont go overboard... maybe a (marine useable) vent route from top of Quad to right of Intim
-perhaps a route from Fore to a balcony over the right side of Intim... too many two-way routes for rines and you really lose the flow
I still see Nothing being played all the time, funny that.
My suggestion list:
-Fix gen elevator
-add the route from cargo to via west (maybe even have it come up under the elevator in Gen, or nearby, so its not too close to via?)
-make it so you can only siege one of intim and via west node's from gen (just move via west north?)
-leave RR
-add vents and more interesting architecture to halls around PS
-maybe add a big column in the middle of PS, from floor to ceiling? could help even it out while keeping the fun factor of the room
-add a few of the vents mentioned but dont go overboard... maybe a (marine useable) vent route from top of Quad to right of Intim
-perhaps a route from Fore to a balcony over the right side of Intim... too many two-way routes for rines and you really lose the flow
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm great suggestions <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
yeah. thats one of the obvious reasons why they (the lifts) really have to go<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not like OC walls are hard to destroy anyway, the lifts don't really add much to it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
But this is really off-topic for what Ben was posting about.
I'm very intruiged by the change list you have laid out and I'd really like to see a change to the corridors around PS. I think doing "something" with the Foreboading res would be worth looking into. As-is it is a very difficult node for the Aliens to hold at the begining of the game.
Okay, to begin with <a href="http://%5dhttp://crispy.nuclear-dawn.net/Misc/ns_nothing_rework.PNG" target="_blank">here</a> is a <i>very rough</i> concept of some screens that would keep Marines from standing along the top of the walkway and gunning spawning aliens with impunity. These screens would extend high enough to stop Marines from using mines or eachother to leap on top of the screen, but would be open at the top to allow Aliens to have a slight advantage. Basically, from this position Marines would be forced through the gap in the screens (the new entrance to Via) if they wanted to get at the Hive, but Aliens could use either this or open top (apart from Gorges and Oni).
Next, instead of the large vacuuous space you currently have in Viaduct, imagine a large, tall platform in the centre with a bridge extending to it from the new entrance between the screens. I've tried (failed) to draw this in pseudo-3D on the screen pic, but the layout below shows it better.
<img src="http://crispy.nuclear-dawn.net/Misc/ns_nothing_rework_layout.PNG" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
When you pass through the new entrance you have three paths to choose from.
- Go straight across the bridge
- Go left and down a winding (Onos-friendly) ramp to the floor of the room
- Go right down a similar ramp
At the bottom you'll see the Hive attached to the back face of the central pillar platform. This puts it effectively on the other side of the room, forcing marines to enter the room to gun it down or setup their sieges in the corridor on the other sides of the screens. The Hive should have sufficient overhead cover to prevent GLs from sitting at the entrance and bouncing it into the Hive easily (+ it needs something to hang off).
Next up, the all-new second entrance to the Hive. This can be found halfway down the left ramp and leads off towards Cargo to connect up with the vent-turned-corridor that BigD mentioned earlier in this thread.
N.B. You can bilebomb the siege from the existing overhead walkway.
I say "consider" because having a specifically fade-unfriendly room can do a lot for a map's gameplay contrast.
the only issue i can think of is "viaduct access west". Its like an alien-only rt. You have to go via cargo or if they got it as mainhive via viaduct. Thats not good IMO. Apart from that the viaduct layout looks great but it should remain jp friendly.
But I'm still not sure if I like the idea of ben placing MS @ miasma <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Pair both suggestions?
Oh and one of the nodes below generator should be moved out of siege position (I would recommend ominous)
Those two tiny tweaks and well... its a lot more interesting <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The only thing that would piss me off would be a redroom HA stalemate which is just uber BS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Lets call Cargo "tripple res" shall we? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
1) Fix elevators so they can't be stopped by pressing the button again.
<!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b><i>Yes</i></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
2) Fix the platform in generator/remove it because it's stupid.
<i><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, but meh...</i>
3) Delete redroom.
<i><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro--><b>No</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->! Please don't remove a famous feature. That's what happened to ns_bast, remember? Or have you forgotten that already. I can understand removing the "lork clorf" from ns_hera I guess... (not that it wasn't hard to GL the lerk) But the Bast door and now the redroom! What the heck is wrong with it?</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
4) Modify lifts so they're "ns_hera" style - offering a drop down with zero damage and a gap underneath so you can't get insta gibbed by the damage I'm going to add to stop you OC'ing the lift shaft
<i><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Good idea. ^^</i>
<b>Potential</b>
1) Rework corridors and rooms around powersilo.
<i><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>Yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Can you please make the walls and corners SMOOTH? (very wallwalkable)</i>
2) Rework viaduct (I like bigD's suggestion 10+ points to you)
<i>Huh? </i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
3) Delete redroom.
<i><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro--><b>No</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->! Please don't remove a famous feature. That's what happened to ns_bast, remember? Or have you forgotten that already. I can understand removing the "lork clorf" from ns_hera I guess... (not that it wasn't hard to GL the lerk) But the Bast door and now the redroom! What the heck is wrong with it?</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines get jps and into red room, game over unless every single alien stops what they are doing to go clear it... yet only uber fades need apply. Gassing it? You pretty much have to go inside it to gas anything worth gassing and two-three shotguns keep the lerks out pretty good. Skulks = fodder. Meanwhile one guy built the sieges and now via is dead. Gorges can't bile it so your fades have to solo the room pretty much to clear it out. 90% of the time, if you haven't got it clear before the pg goes up, the room stays in marine control for the rest of the game unless a smart fade goes in while the marines are all pushing a hive at once. It's simply a critical location that is inaccessible to most of the alien team. Redroom has = gg since 1.0.
I'm for keeping it as a vent that you can't build in, but nothing more. It's not <i>that</i> memorable. The rotating door in bast was all fancy with switches and moving doodads. This is a room. Not the most inspiring architecture of any map by any means either. As far as map defining structures go, Nothing has other far more interesting and memorable areas than red room.
Anyways I can agree I guess with making it so that you can't build in it but because of what it was we should keep it. Why throw away our history? Some of these maps do have famous locations.
Red room would be a lot easier to take as aliens if the two Via vents to it werent single file. As such, a lerk can gas straight up, sure... but almost certainly gets blocked if anyone chases. Fix that, and RR will be fine as it is.
Lower the altitude of the whole room, and it will be fine. Let the vents from Via open in the ceiling over Red Room, possibly even with multiple exits. Think the vents over Tram Tunnel on Bast. The shaft from the vent to the room should be very short, so you aren't exposed to fire very long, and Gorges can lob bile bombs into the room.
Besides Red Room, I support BigD's initial suggestion. Many of the later suggestions are trying to totally re-work nothing, when all it really needs is a tweak. Its already a pretty decent map.
Edit: MS Paint picture of what I'm suggesting for Red Room, side view. The Left side of the picture is the hallway into Viaduct, the right side is the hallway near Kismet that has the vent entrance to Red Room.
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/cxwf2/RedRoom.JPG" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Here's my take on the changes:
<img src="http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/11044/2000338186927018454_fs.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
1. Move the RT in ventilation to threshold.
Having the hive was already like having double res and a hive. I think this is needed. This also prevents siege from generator.
2. Remove the RT at gen.
Gen is no doubt powerful to control. But the RT is too close to miasma, also giving it double res. You don't see two res near intimidation right?
3. Move the RT at omnious to intimidation.
I feel this will shift the map more towards the right side of the map. This also prevents siege from generator.
4. Make a vent on the bottom of PS hive.
Long hallways and such, I don't remember winning a hive siege from here. This vent will allow lerks to spore, gorges to bile and what not.
5. Make a vent on top of PS hive.
I never use the vent that used to be here. This vent works like the other, so the aliens can get out of the hive other than the two big marine-death hallways.
6. Make Red Room unbuildable.
I think this is the one vent that I actually think is useful in this map. Rather than remove it, if it were to be made unbuildable, it would still get use, but not an immediate gg after a jp gets into here.
I like a lot of the changes, but I don't like how the map is getting smaller. <b>I'd like to be given some time as a gorge to drop a RT and skulk back.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's my take on the changes:
<img src="http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/11044/2000338186927018454_fs.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
1. <b>Move the RT in ventilation to threshold.</b>
2. <b>Remove the RT at gen.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Does Cargo Hive really need nerfing any more? Doesn't this actually mean that Gorges starting in Cargo will have LESS time to drop RTs and skulk?
Vent res essentially makes cargo double res, since they are only a couple feet across. Generators already a powerful area to control and the res makes it a given.
I've tried to push the map towards the right, since nothing seems more like whoever gets cargo/gen wins every game. If marines go towards the right more, that will give aliens more time on the left.
Erm, cargo is the best hive for aliens in the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That doesn't necessarily make it a good Hive. Imo all the Hives on Nothing need reworking (in some cases perhaps not the Hive rooms themselves, but the way they link to the rest of the map).
Vent sucks because of the wide-open pathway, making pistol whipping a routine. The ladder prevents onos movement. The open area promotes jp use. Red room makes this hive even worse.
Power sucks because the two ways to enter it are long and wide, so again, skulks are marine fodder. Tall hive so jps fly around and kill. It's the furthest away from RTs. It takes so long to walk to other areas in the map.
I don't think there's any question about it.
Also, marines can hold 2 chokepoints at the top of elevators and seige all but 2 alien nodes when aliens don't have cargo. Maybe Generator should be altered so that you can't seige West and Ominous nodes.
We remove the RT at gen, devaluing the place. Then we move the rt as kismet to intimidation to get out of siege range from gen (as well as the RT in ventilation near cargo).
I love it! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />