Quick update: I've redone (layout wise, still needs propping) the route between Power Core and Communications. The route that previously went between Cargo/Comm now connects midway between Power/Comm instead of directly to Communications itself. Also been doing some work in Cargo to make the floor a little less plain. Would like to spend a some more time on these areas and then I'll try and get another version out for you guys to test. After that the route between Power Core and Fluid Transfer will need attention. I'll also try and post some new screenshots soon.
Thanks everyone. Really trying to work out some of the randomness and tie the theme together more. Also the 'access' naming on a lot of the routes is a bad ns1 habbit and I'll definitely have to change some of the route names at some point.
Almost done with a rough draft of the new routes between Communications/Power Core/Cargo (much of the southwestern part of the map). Still have a lot of propping to do but here's a few new shots of progress:
<img src="http://devin-afshin.com/lazer/ns2_icarus_92901.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> A small hallway that connects near Cargo down to the new route. Might have to redo if it's too small but it's not a major route and Onos fits.
<img src="http://devin-afshin.com/lazer/ns2_icarus_92902.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Left goes to Communications, right goes toward Cargo or Power Core. Also you can't see it but there's an RT to the right as well.
<img src="http://devin-afshin.com/lazer/ns2_icarus_92903.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> An area outside of Power Core. Might become some kind of auxiliary generator or something.
I'll be finishing up a couple more changes on Cargo and should have out a new version to test possibly even tonight/tomorrow. Is anyone familiar with creating a mod on the Steam workshop for their map? Pretty sure I gotta do this for server ops to run it but I haven't use the workshop before.
Hey kinda forgot to mention I put this up on the steam workshop a few days ago (ns2_icarus beta). Map is currently included on the All-In #2 rotation if you wish to play it. Having managed to play some nice full games I was finally able to get a bunch of feedback. Some of the first issues we ran into were things like comm view being blocked by some geometry/props, a couple pathing issues, few places you could sneak out of the map, and a stuck spot or two. Most of this has been since fixed and updated on the workshop.
In terms of layout/gameplay, it seems we had a lot of back and forth games that lasted quite a while so I guess balance isn't too far off :) The redone area between Power Core and Communications seems to work out so I'll start adding more detail soon. It was also pointed out that aliens need better flanking potential and I agree, especially on the southern half of the map where there's no vents yet (will need to be added asap). Some areas will be opened up more too but I think one of my next goals will be redesigning the route between Power Core and Fluid Transfer as everything is just far too random and I think the route is a little longer than it needs to be.
If anyone happens to play the map feel free to leave me your feedback good/bad it's all useful to me :)
<!--quoteo(post=1987513:date=Oct 5 2012, 11:27 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Oct 5 2012, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the power access room needs some work. does it even have a power node?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not sure there might not be actually. Power Access is a part of the route between Power Core and Fluid Transfer I plan to redesign so most of that area is changing soon anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1987592:date=Oct 5 2012, 11:46 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 5 2012, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow this map looks fabulous, definitely going to look out for a server to try it on!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All-In #2 has it right now! We have a vote map system in place, so just vote for it when you want it :)
Played this map for a scrim the other night and I have some feedback. I don't know if these are issues that have already been reported or not, so I apologize if they are.
* Drifters can't leave the power core (I think that's the room, the bottom one) hive. They get stuck on that platform that the hive is on, and can't be moved. * IP doesn't spawn sometimes * The big wheel things that are at each end of the generator in power core are annoying to jump over. It makes it annoying when you get back in the chair. * Some of the map labels are too big and are hiding some of the details of the map. For example, "Communications" is covering the RT node.
That's all I can remember from the other night. Overall, it was a really fun map. I think it's one of the better balanced maps being played in the custom map cup. Looking forward to the final version!
Played a pcw on it. The map has a general problem of narrow corridors with tons of turns and rooms with too much clutter (cover for the aliens). Very alien favored...
Hey thanks for the feedback I've been in a bit of a rut but I swear I'll get these issues worked out soon
Couple changes coming to communications and the east side of the map is going to have a redesign. Would also like to work out any remaining map bugs so let me know what you find!
In regards to the narrow corridors let me know which ones are the most annoying and I'll try to expand them a bit. I've found there's players who like it this way though, so I'd prefer to only adjust areas where it's been a real problem for the marines.
Also really excited to see this was played in the custom map comp today! I'll have to spend some time reviewing the footage to get a feel of how the layout's playing competitively. Thanks guys!
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
I think if you sort out the nasty siege spots in one way or another(slightly move the tech points?) and add more vents to get around the map, as suggested in this feedback thread. Then it's a very good candidate to be picked up for season 2.
But you would need at least the siege spots fixed before 1st of March. Which is where season 2 signups closes, and we begin making groups and matchups on the site.
I think if you sort out the nasty siege spots in one way or another(slightly move the tech points?) and add more vents to get around the map, as suggested in this feedback thread. Then it's a very good candidate to be picked up for season 2.
But you would need at least the siege spots fixed before 1st of March. Which is where season 2 signups closes, and we begin making groups and matchups on the site.
Thanks for that link I didn't see information on where the siege spots were (maybe I missed it?) but I did post asking for them to elaborate a bit so I can try and have some fixes in time for March. I just finished up a small layout change to communications and was about to start ripping apart the area in and around East Access but that can wait while I square away these other concerns.
I'll take a guess one of the siege spots is in the room that connects to the east of Power Core?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2013
Problematic siege spots:
* Arcs in central shipping hit hive in excavation.
* Arcs in auxiliary systems hit hive in power core.
* Arcs in fluid access hit hive in cargo.
There are also a lot of stuck spots, for example in excavation and west tunnel.
Armories clip through the floor in powercore (if you place them on a particular section of the grating).
I think this map works best with aliens spawning in excavation and marines spawning in power core. I would definitely put in a vote for static spawns.
Ok I'll try and have all of this worked out asap. Basically my plan for the next couple days is:
-Move excavation hive north and rework the entrance from mineral transport. Should make it harder for marines to camp / siege.
-Move cargo's hive position a bit, possibly rework fluid access to be farther from cargo.
-Add vents at the top of auxiliary systems. I'll leave this as a siege spot but make it difficult to defend from bilebomb.
-Add more vents in general.
Also this map had originally been designed for aliens in excavation and marines in power core. Since some of the guidelines changed I've adopted a much more symmetrical layout for random spawns (like summit) but may set them static if it's not working out. I think with a few more tweaks to layout balance it should be pretty good for random. Guess I could also try something like power core/communications as marine only and excavation/fluid transfer as alien only starts.
Going to publish a new version tonight with the following changes:
-Communications layout changed a bit so the top is better connected to the bottom and the lower of the two northern exits removed. (done)
-2 new vents from Power Core. One vent connects up top of Auxiliary Systems to give gorges a great bilebomb spot in case of siege attempt. The other vent is to try and help give a little extra flank potential to the east. (done)
-Move Excavation tech point to the north of the room instead. Rework the entrance to Mineral Transport and possibly add a vent leading out to Excavation Access (probably renaming as Excavation Service Route or just Service Route). (to do)
-If time permits I'll also reposition the Cargo hive. Might have to wait til tomorrow on this one.
Also I'll likely make Power Core/Communications as marine starts and Excavation/Fluid Transfer as alien starts to test this kind of spawn setup.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2013
Hey Lazer. Just gave the new version a quick test and there is a few problems that needs fixing before we can include it into season 2.
- Communications can be sieged from the Data Management hallway and the exit into the tech point room can be blocked with an armory, as seen in this screenshot:
- There are some very wierd power grid bugs just north of the central tech point:
- Towards shipping/recieving, the powernode is built, but red lights are up(power off) when the other powernode close to it is destroyed:
- And yet in this area some structures seem to still get power while others don't:
- And finally the stuck issue in Shipping/Recieving:
My suggestion for solving the siege spot, is to either remove that corridor completely and open a new entrance to Communications from the corridor leading the the central tech point or maybe you might be able to simply move the tech point out of siege range of the Data management corridor.
To solve the power issues, you can reproduce where there is power issues by setting cheats 1 and autobuild on a (local?) server and spamming armories all over the place. That should make it easier for you to find out where the problem areas are. There might also be more power bugs than we discovered, so I'd suggest to test your entire map with that method.
As far as I know, you should be able to solve the stuck issue with some invisible geometry somehow. I've never mapped ns2 maps myself, but I believe something like that is the solution for it. Maybe another mapper can give you some better feedback on how to fix that.
If you can solve these issues, I foresee that this will be played in season 2. It is definitely a great map.
Season 2 will begin this weekend, but we will not put any of the new maps in the first week. But it needs to be ready for teams to practice on for week 2/3, as soon as possible. You think you can solve these issues in time?
Edit: We have put icarus up for week 3, more specificly 24th March. You should aim to fix these issues one week before that so the teams can have the time to practice on the map. However, if these issues doesn't get fixed in time, we might need to remove the map again.
Hey Swalk really appreciate the feedback. The power issues should be simple fixes and I'll have those areas working again shortly. The siege/stuck issues might take a bit longer but I should be able to have them done for next week. Thanks
Hey Swalk really appreciate the feedback. The power issues should be simple fixes and I'll have those areas working again shortly. The siege/stuck issues might take a bit longer but I should be able to have them done for next week. Thanks
I've just plaied it yesterday and it was streamed by gohan zeta.
Here is the link so you can see by yourself the big issues that affected the game A LOT ! http://fr.twitch.tv/gohanzeta/b/379008178
Check it at 2:08:00 for a power bug
Check it at 2:18:00 for a badly placed power node in communication. Or maybe make sure the beacon calls back players all around the room, and not getting stucked in the small tech point area !
Anyway, the map is quite good, but still, i think there are some corridors with a too much low roof. A single armory shouldn't block a whole corridor. Ventilation chamber is too much clostrophobic aswell... Armories built in the ground at power core is quite weird ! It's cool for the marines, but shouldn't exist
About the spawns, as Lazer said earlier in the thread, i'm quite sure marines should only spawn at Power Core or Communications and aliens at Excavation and Fluid Transfer.
I hope you have time these days to fix some of these issues, i'm still a bit worried about playing this map in a competitive match...
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Any news on the update? I would love to keep icarus in the map pool and have the teams play the map this weekend but I have to take the map out of the map pool if the issues don't get fixed in time.
So contact me asap if you're almost done with the update, else I will be removing the map in 24 hours from now.
QUOTE (Lazer @ Aug 8 2010, 02:47 PM) »Haha yes still a lot of lighting work left this is just what I had managed to do before bed last night. Not sure how the curved vents don't make sense (vents can't be curved??)
When have you ever seen curved vent grates?
Why would someone want to make a vent grate curved?
When have you ever seen marines fight aliens? This is science fiction, not science-boring-fact.
Comments
please keep working on it.
Also why do so many rooms have access in there name?
Almost done with a rough draft of the new routes between Communications/Power Core/Cargo (much of the southwestern part of the map). Still have a lot of propping to do but here's a few new shots of progress:
<img src="http://devin-afshin.com/lazer/ns2_icarus_92901.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
A small hallway that connects near Cargo down to the new route. Might have to redo if it's too small but it's not a major route and Onos fits.
<img src="http://devin-afshin.com/lazer/ns2_icarus_92902.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Left goes to Communications, right goes toward Cargo or Power Core. Also you can't see it but there's an RT to the right as well.
<img src="http://devin-afshin.com/lazer/ns2_icarus_92903.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
An area outside of Power Core. Might become some kind of auxiliary generator or something.
I'll be finishing up a couple more changes on Cargo and should have out a new version to test possibly even tonight/tomorrow. Is anyone familiar with creating a mod on the Steam workshop for their map? Pretty sure I gotta do this for server ops to run it but I haven't use the workshop before.
In terms of layout/gameplay, it seems we had a lot of back and forth games that lasted quite a while so I guess balance isn't too far off :) The redone area between Power Core and Communications seems to work out so I'll start adding more detail soon. It was also pointed out that aliens need better flanking potential and I agree, especially on the southern half of the map where there's no vents yet (will need to be added asap). Some areas will be opened up more too but I think one of my next goals will be redesigning the route between Power Core and Fluid Transfer as everything is just far too random and I think the route is a little longer than it needs to be.
If anyone happens to play the map feel free to leave me your feedback good/bad it's all useful to me :)
Not sure there might not be actually. Power Access is a part of the route between Power Core and Fluid Transfer I plan to redesign so most of that area is changing soon anyway.
All-In #2 has it right now! We have a vote map system in place, so just vote for it when you want it :)
* Drifters can't leave the power core (I think that's the room, the bottom one) hive. They get stuck on that platform that the hive is on, and can't be moved.
* IP doesn't spawn sometimes
* The big wheel things that are at each end of the generator in power core are annoying to jump over. It makes it annoying when you get back in the chair.
* Some of the map labels are too big and are hiding some of the details of the map. For example, "Communications" is covering the RT node.
That's all I can remember from the other night. Overall, it was a really fun map. I think it's one of the better balanced maps being played in the custom map cup. Looking forward to the final version!
Mod ID: 5f9ccf1
Couple changes coming to communications and the east side of the map is going to have a redesign. Would also like to work out any remaining map bugs so let me know what you find!
In regards to the narrow corridors let me know which ones are the most annoying and I'll try to expand them a bit. I've found there's players who like it this way though, so I'd prefer to only adjust areas where it's been a real problem for the marines.
Also really excited to see this was played in the custom map comp today! I'll have to spend some time reviewing the footage to get a feel of how the layout's playing competitively. Thanks guys!
But you would need at least the siege spots fixed before 1st of March. Which is where season 2 signups closes, and we begin making groups and matchups on the site.
Thanks for that link I didn't see information on where the siege spots were (maybe I missed it?) but I did post asking for them to elaborate a bit so I can try and have some fixes in time for March. I just finished up a small layout change to communications and was about to start ripping apart the area in and around East Access but that can wait while I square away these other concerns.
I'll take a guess one of the siege spots is in the room that connects to the east of Power Core?
* Arcs in central shipping hit hive in excavation.
* Arcs in auxiliary systems hit hive in power core.
* Arcs in fluid access hit hive in cargo.
There are also a lot of stuck spots, for example in excavation and west tunnel.
Armories clip through the floor in powercore (if you place them on a particular section of the grating).
I think this map works best with aliens spawning in excavation and marines spawning in power core. I would definitely put in a vote for static spawns.
-Move excavation hive north and rework the entrance from mineral transport. Should make it harder for marines to camp / siege.
-Move cargo's hive position a bit, possibly rework fluid access to be farther from cargo.
-Add vents at the top of auxiliary systems. I'll leave this as a siege spot but make it difficult to defend from bilebomb.
-Add more vents in general.
Also this map had originally been designed for aliens in excavation and marines in power core. Since some of the guidelines changed I've adopted a much more symmetrical layout for random spawns (like summit) but may set them static if it's not working out. I think with a few more tweaks to layout balance it should be pretty good for random. Guess I could also try something like power core/communications as marine only and excavation/fluid transfer as alien only starts.
-Communications layout changed a bit so the top is better connected to the bottom and the lower of the two northern exits removed. (done)
-2 new vents from Power Core. One vent connects up top of Auxiliary Systems to give gorges a great bilebomb spot in case of siege attempt. The other vent is to try and help give a little extra flank potential to the east. (done)
-Move Excavation tech point to the north of the room instead. Rework the entrance to Mineral Transport and possibly add a vent leading out to Excavation Access (probably renaming as Excavation Service Route or just Service Route). (to do)
-If time permits I'll also reposition the Cargo hive. Might have to wait til tomorrow on this one.
Also I'll likely make Power Core/Communications as marine starts and Excavation/Fluid Transfer as alien starts to test this kind of spawn setup.
- Communications can be sieged from the Data Management hallway and the exit into the tech point room can be blocked with an armory, as seen in this screenshot:
- There are some very wierd power grid bugs just north of the central tech point:
- Towards shipping/recieving, the powernode is built, but red lights are up(power off) when the other powernode close to it is destroyed:
- And yet in this area some structures seem to still get power while others don't:
- And finally the stuck issue in Shipping/Recieving:
My suggestion for solving the siege spot, is to either remove that corridor completely and open a new entrance to Communications from the corridor leading the the central tech point or maybe you might be able to simply move the tech point out of siege range of the Data management corridor.
To solve the power issues, you can reproduce where there is power issues by setting cheats 1 and autobuild on a (local?) server and spamming armories all over the place. That should make it easier for you to find out where the problem areas are. There might also be more power bugs than we discovered, so I'd suggest to test your entire map with that method.
As far as I know, you should be able to solve the stuck issue with some invisible geometry somehow. I've never mapped ns2 maps myself, but I believe something like that is the solution for it. Maybe another mapper can give you some better feedback on how to fix that.
If you can solve these issues, I foresee that this will be played in season 2. It is definitely a great map.
Season 2 will begin this weekend, but we will not put any of the new maps in the first week. But it needs to be ready for teams to practice on for week 2/3, as soon as possible. You think you can solve these issues in time?
Edit: We have put icarus up for week 3, more specificly 24th March. You should aim to fix these issues one week before that so the teams can have the time to practice on the map. However, if these issues doesn't get fixed in time, we might need to remove the map again.
Here is the link so you can see by yourself the big issues that affected the game A LOT ! http://fr.twitch.tv/gohanzeta/b/379008178
Check it at 2:08:00 for a power bug
Check it at 2:18:00 for a badly placed power node in communication. Or maybe make sure the beacon calls back players all around the room, and not getting stucked in the small tech point area !
Anyway, the map is quite good, but still, i think there are some corridors with a too much low roof. A single armory shouldn't block a whole corridor. Ventilation chamber is too much clostrophobic aswell... Armories built in the ground at power core is quite weird ! It's cool for the marines, but shouldn't exist
About the spawns, as Lazer said earlier in the thread, i'm quite sure marines should only spawn at Power Core or Communications and aliens at Excavation and Fluid Transfer.
I hope you have time these days to fix some of these issues, i'm still a bit worried about playing this map in a competitive match...
So contact me asap if you're almost done with the update, else I will be removing the map in 24 hours from now.
When have you ever seen marines fight aliens? This is science fiction, not science-boring-fact.
OP, it looks good.
Blessings,
Cody