Fade: making skill matter

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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    "Cloaking" is cloaking, "blinking" is blinking - they are two different concepts. A fade might be able to do both.
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  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Posts: 1,038Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 19 2011, 06:40 PM) »
    Makes more sense to change other parts of the blink model to negate that advantage rather than add a delay. Especially since input delays are extremely annoying for the player, just compare it to the ridiculously long marine weapon switch delays currently in NS2. With the blink model proposed above, it isn't even an issue anymore.

    You're right, but I wasn't able to think of a suitable alternative, and also haven't seen one suggested. If the new model will work, then I'm all for it, but until I see it working, I remain apprehensive.

    I am against skill constraints, completely.

    I like the idea of removing blink invulnerability, I can see also making a fade that is in blink mode semi-visible in some regard so marines can see it coming (negates latency advantage), but at the same time, a damage reduction for the fade while in blink (as in, takes less damage from attacks than normal). This will make blinking more of a skill mechanic and give marines a bit of a heads up when a fade is on the way. But overall this would be a nerf in general for the fade, so would need to be balanced out in some regard again. Maybe reducing blink cost(s), this will make fade more blink oriented.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (swalk @ Dec 20 2011, 07:47 PM) »
    I seriously think you should keep the invulnerablility while in blink mode, now that it is used for shorter durations.


    QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 20 2011, 07:49 PM) »
    "Cloaking" is cloaking, "blinking" is blinking - they are two different concepts. A fade might be able to do both.


    I think we've reached a state where we need a real game test to see the effectiveness of the fade in combat, something akin to the "Let's Turtle!" event. Only then can we get a better feeling for what works, what doesn't, and how the new fade feels for a broader spectrum of players.
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  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Posts: 803Members
    fluid core actually made nice mod, which includes current fades abilities while still having ns1 movement, pretty impressive.

    i've always liked ns1 fade tap blink, where I do not have to hold blink just so I can keep blinking. this allowed ability to conserve my energy to fight longer.
    That is what is missing from this mod I believe, tap blinks. I want to be able to tap blink and have my momentum carry me as it did in ns1. But holding it would enter the fade into his eternal world, in return it would be energy costly. So he will not be able to hide it in long periods of time. While scan would reveal him easily.

    So if you can add more air control, more momentum and ability to tap blink - we might actually have something we did in ns1.

    to sum up;

    fade must be able to blink tapping blink without constantly being forced to hold blink.
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just a note: Yuuki is the creator of the mod. I've just had the privilege of trying some versions with him :)
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  • CataclyzmCataclyzm Join Date: 2005-01-06 Member: 33031Posts: 135Members
    With fade vulnerable while blinking... is there a way to promote advanced controls to avoid explosions/shotgun blasts? % damage taken in ethereal instead?
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,864Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 20 2011, 08:01 PM) »
    I think we've reached a state where we need a real game test to see the effectiveness of the fade in combat, something akin to the "Let's Turtle!" event. Only then can we get a better feeling for what works, what doesn't, and how the new fade feels for a broader spectrum of players.

    Now that we've had that, I still have the same opinions :P

    Blink needs a cooldown.

    I didn't like ability to shoot at fades while they are invisible.
    It's unintuitive, and the mechanic isn't really adding any depth other than just "guessing" where the fade is while you can't see him.
    Adding some effect to make fades visible in blink would make blink obsolete for gameplay, and blink would just be a fancy/silly effect.

    The fade's fell like flies in the games, I think it was mainly because of the slow walking speed, and I still think that should be fixed :P
    And then the removed invulnerablity in blink, I think that played a vital role as well.
    Needs to be re-added now that we have shorter blink durations.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Posts: 610Members
    edited December 2011
    I think it's cool that fades can blink at the right time to avoid grenade explosions.

    edit: by being invulnerable for a short period
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • measlesmeasles Join Date: 2007-02-26 Member: 60122Posts: 385Members, Constellation

    I think the BLINK dilemma is quite simple.
    It doesn't require tweaking of the control-ability at all. Just make a 'swirling environment' effect every time plyr chooses to travel through the nether-state (the place where Kharaa turn invisible-other dimension).
    It's like with a rocket-ship. Anyone can start the countdown, but who is able to withstand the g-force?
    The result would be shorter blinks. People will need to stop to remember/discover where they are.
    A 'pro' fade will have to be able to blink (even) with their eyes shut, as orientation during blink would be quite difficult, save for straight-up attacks.
    image
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    We did a gather yesterday and played a match with the mod, and fades
    we're dying very fast. To be fair people didn't really knew the mod and
    we're trying to catch marines by foot which is almost impossible
    due to slow walk speed. Maybe we should have trained a bit before :)

    I guess I should increase a bit walk speed, and maybe improve air control
    to make it easier.

    >invulnerablity

    I'm not too sure about that, an alternative would be to increase health,
    or to have partial invulnerability (damage reduction), although I don't know how
    to implement that.

    >Blink needs a cooldown.

    I will look to put it back, a bit shorter maybe. But what is the argument for it ?
    We tried a bit blink spam with Fluid and it doesn't seem very efficient.
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2011
    Increasing the initial a bit would do it. I think putting it back at 10 should be enough. If you blink spam you basically make a smoke trail behind you anyhow. I can see that you need to limit blinks more if when you are invulnerable during blinks.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Posts: 2,700Members
    QUOTE (MuYeah @ Dec 21 2011, 03:39 AM) »
    I think it's cool that fades can blink at the right time to avoid grenade explosions.

    edit: by being invulnerable for a short period

    Yeh, I think the invul is the one thingy I see as a potential awesome improvement to the old NS1 style fade. Instead of tanking through NS1 style you can kind of manage how much you want to spend adren or health in an engagement. That could be potentially awesome adaptibility where fade can switch between a semi competent meat shield and surgigal striker depending on situation and upgrades.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    Well you can avoid grenade and shotgun by blinking out of the way, invulnerability or not, I'm not sure it's so different in both cases.
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I tend to agree. If you have invulnerability, then it's a no-brainer. You just need to tap the blink when you expect damage, and you're safe no matter where you go. If you can still take damage, you have to go away from the source of the damage: with the perserved momentum you can very quickly get back in the fray though.
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Posts: 2,700Members
    QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 21 2011, 12:05 PM) »
    I tend to agree. If you have invulnerability, then it's a no-brainer. You just need to tap the blink when you expect damage, and you're safe no matter where you go. If you can still take damage, you have to go away from the source of the damage: with the perserved momentum you can very quickly get back in the fray though.

    I don't think it's a no brainer in situation where there's plenty of damage flying around in different kind of bursts, you've got a limited amount of adren to manage and still a pretty limited HP pool avaible, in addition to the fact that before onos kicks in (apparently very late game if the hive requirement stays) you're also the main meat shield in your team and you're expected to tank some damage also.

    As for just tapping away from damage, I think you can slightly adjust the invul delay, initial blink cost and such to make rapid tapping an univiting move. Even a very brief cooldown will do if you just want to prevent sort of abusive rapid tap blinking. With some refinement in blink acceleration and adren cost mechanics we might have a pretty wide selection of adjustable numbers too. For example if a very brief ethereal form blink doesn't accelerate you right away at full power, those brief blinks will just dodge the bullet momentarily while still keeping you a sitting duck.

    I just finished my exams for now, so I might take a look at the Lua myself too to see if I can figure out a combination I'm looking for.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,864Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 21 2011, 11:21 AM) »
    We did a gather yesterday and played a match with the mod, and fades
    we're dying very fast. To be fair people didn't really knew the mod and
    we're trying to catch marines by foot which is almost impossible
    due to slow walk speed. Maybe we should have trained a bit before :)

    I guess I should increase a bit walk speed, and maybe improve air control
    to make it easier.

    >invulnerablity

    I'm not too sure about that, an alternative would be to increase health,
    or to have partial invulnerability (damage reduction), although I don't know how
    to implement that.

    >Blink needs a cooldown.

    I will look to put it back, a bit shorter maybe. But what is the argument for it ?
    We tried a bit blink spam with Fluid and it doesn't seem very efficient.

    Yeah you should really look into getting fades normal walk speed again. It makes this whole model very restricting, as Koruyo earlier said.
    The point is with the cooldown and the invulnerability together, is that you would have a much more interesting/better blink model.
    Also it's very silly to see this blink effect being spammed from the marines perspective.
    And very unintuitive to be able to shoot fades while they are invisible.
    I think a health increase would be nessesary even if you made fades invulnerable in blink mode again. Hopefully you do.
    Why?
    Because with this blink system, they would only be invulnerable/invisible for a very short time.
    And therefore you would have much more time to shoot the fades -> No need to make them vulnerable in blink mode.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 21 2011, 02:42 PM) »
    I just finished my exams for now, so I might take a look at the Lua myself too to see if I can figure out a combination I'm looking for.


    Woo! I join in on your freedom!


    I'm for the fade being very mobile, and soaking damage in the sense that the marines doesn't shoot because they aren't quick enough to track you, or that they do shoot but you've moved already. You doesn't need to actually take damage to "soak" damage, nor do you need to be immune to be able to soak much damage. I think that the fade should negate damage by movement, by keeping the marines on their toes and strike from unsuspected angles.

    If you want to make rapid tapping with invulnerability uninviting, you have to make the fade blink less often. I can see two different ways to reach that. The first would be playing much as it does in official now, when it blinks out shortly after it appears to regain adrenaline. The second would be to make it able to stay in combat longer, by making it be able to take more damage. With the damage it does now, I can't see the second option being wanted. As for the first option, isn't that why we have this thread? The fade is to easy as it is.

    I think the skill with fade should come from outmaneuvering marines. If you aren't immune, there is no real gain with "abusive" rapid tap blinking. You lose more energy to create a smoke-trail behind you, making it easier for marines to track you and not taking benefit of the added momentum. Granted, the initial energy cost was to low during yesterdays playtest, making you able to mindlessly tap in whenever you panicked. Setting the initial cost back to 10 (from 6) will make you able to sustain one short blink each second (<0.15 sec duration). Adding two attacks each second puts your effective combat ability at just over 8 seconds total.

    Don't think you can add a delay to when the acceleration starts, but you can greatly reduce the power you get during the blink. A side effect from this would be that the fade would have to bunnyhop through the air to keep a decent speed up, something I do not think anyone would prefer. It's either that or reducing the drain so that you can stay invisible for longer to get up to speed. Once again that is unwanted.


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  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (swalk @ Dec 21 2011, 05:40 PM) »
    The point is with the cooldown and the invulnerability together, is that you would have a much more interesting/better blink model.
    Also it's very silly to see this blink effect being spammed from the marines perspective.
    And very unintuitive to be able to shoot fades while they are invisible.


    A cooldown is needed if you get immune to damage during blink, because otherwise spamming blink can be used to avoid the higher drain cost. I don't like cooldowns myself, much like I don't like input delays. Especially when you have no indication at all for how long is left on the cooldown. That leaves me at removing the immunity, sadly. I don't see any other way to be able to prevent all of the following:
    1. Stay invisible for extended periods
    2. Travel around the map and have to wait for adrenaline often
    3. Gain something by spamming blink


    To prevent 1 we increase the drain cost
    To prevent 2 we can't put the initial cost to high
    To prevent 3 we have to put a high initial cost, make it impossible by adding a cooldown, or remove any gain from spamming blink.

    Since we can't put a high initial cost due to 2, and I don't think cooldowns are intuitive (or they would be so short that you could just remove the cooldown instead), we have to remove any gain from spamming blink. I encourage you to come up with a way to prevent all three "modes" while keeping the immunity. It would add depth to have it there, and I encourage you to come up with any idea to keep it there while the first two points is being prevented (and not taking away the freedom of movement).
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,864Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 21 2011, 06:41 PM) »
    A cooldown is needed if you get immune to damage during blink, because otherwise spamming blink can be used to avoid the higher drain cost. I don't like cooldowns myself, much like I don't like input delays. Especially when you have no indication at all for how long is left on the cooldown. That leaves me at removing the immunity, sadly. I don't see any other way to be able to prevent all of the following:
    1. Stay invisible for extended periods
    2. Travel around the map and have to wait for adrenaline often
    3. Gain something by spamming blink


    To prevent 1 we increase the drain cost
    To prevent 2 we can't put the initial cost to high
    To prevent 3 we have to put a high initial cost, make it impossible by adding a cooldown, or remove any gain from spamming blink.

    Since we can't put a high initial cost due to 2, and I don't think cooldowns are intuitive (or they would be so short that you could just remove the cooldown instead), we have to remove any gain from spamming blink. I encourage you to come up with a way to prevent all three "modes" while keeping the immunity. It would add depth to have it there, and I encourage you to come up with any idea to keep it there while the first two points is being prevented (and not taking away the freedom of movement).

    The cooldown IS nessesary, no matter if you make the fade invul in blink, or not.
    But I think you should make them invul in blink, now that the fades are ALOT less in blink mode.
    The initial cost is fine at 10 I believe.
    That makes it possible to travel around the map without waiting for adrenaline.
    You should not gain lots of power by spamming mouse2, you should use it carefully, hence why we need a cooldown.
    It should be used to gain the momentum and get invis/invul the that very short timeframe where you tab the button.
    That's useful for traveling, and combat.
    In combat you can still afford to waste a little more energy to confuse marines, and still be able to get away.
    Try this out, and you will see :P
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Posts: 803Members
    cooldown isn't needed at all, in fact all you will do is further nerf the class which isn't needed at all. you need to realize you cannot solo the fade, its one of those classes that takes team effort to counter. And with teamwork you can even counter the best fades, you have to think on your feet and not run blindly.

    as I've stated before, the fade requires blink taps (to conserve energy), being able to blink freely without being in his eternal world state this would mean he is open to attacks but holding blink would force him into his eternal world but holding blink would be energy costly and he cannot hide in it for long periods of time. So good player will understand fair balance must be made during the fight. And scan would reveal him even if he's in his eternal world.

    you can add the fancy smoke if you want, for example smokey cloud should appear the movement he steps out of his eternal world and the moment he enters it. this would give an amazing effect. The smokey trail, i'm not so crazy about, i'm guessing you just making it easy to track him to make it easy for marines to aim? learn to shoot where he will be, not where he is.

    all the fade is missing is ns1 movement with being able to tap blink, and we might have something going here again. But remember this class isn't the only one needed movement changes, our beloved skulk especially his leap needs momentum and air control as well.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    Increased walk speed, added air control and strafe stuff :

  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,742Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Smasher @ Dec 20 2011, 08:17 AM) »
    A 2d creature (dimension N+1) can see a 1d creature (dimension N), but a 1d creature can't always see a 2d creature.


    There are two scenarios that could apply and it doesn't work that way in either of them.

    1) You have an N dimensional space with electromagnetic forces propagating in N-1 dimensions(e.g. photons, collisions etc.). An N dimensional creature would not see any photons unless it intersected the N-1 dimensional plane in which the N-1 dimensional creature lived; in which case an N-1 dimensional creature would be able to see an N-1 dimensional slice of the N dimensional creature. The lesser dimensioned creatured would have an advantage; it could see a slice of the higher dimensional creature even when that slice did not contain part of the visual system of the N dimensional creature. If the N dimensional creature is colliding with N-1 dimensional objects(except, inexplicably, chunks of lead) it is clearly intersecting the plane in which the N-1 dimensional creature lives.

    If fades "go 4-dimensional" when they blink, this is the case that best fits the game.

    2) You have an N dimensional space with photons propagating in N dimensions. Photons comming from the N dimensional creature would still interact with the visual system visual system of the N-1 dimensional creature even when the N dimensional creature does not intersect the N-1 dimensional plane in which the N-1 dimensional creature lives. The N-1 dimensional creature would still be able to see the N dimensional creature but would be completely unable to percieve that there is an extra dimension to it. If the N dimensional creature is colliding with N-1 dimensional objects(except, inexplicably, chunks of lead) it is clearly intersecting the plane in which the N-1 dimensional creature lives.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,864Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (luns @ Dec 21 2011, 07:18 PM) »
    cooldown isn't needed at all, in fact all you will do is further nerf the class which isn't needed at all. you need to realize you cannot solo the fade, its one of those classes that takes team effort to counter. And with teamwork you can even counter the best fades, you have to think on your feet and not run blindly.

    as I've stated before, the fade requires blink taps (to conserve energy), being able to blink freely without being in his eternal world state this would mean he is open to attacks but holding blink would force him into his eternal world but holding blink would be energy costly and he cannot hide in it for long periods of time. So good player will understand fair balance must be made during the fight. And scan would reveal him even if he's in his eternal world.

    you can add the fancy smoke if you want, for example smokey cloud should appear the movement he steps out of his eternal world and the moment he enters it. this would give an amazing effect. The smokey trail, i'm not so crazy about, i'm guessing you just making it easy to track him to make it easy for marines to aim? learn to shoot where he will be, not where he is.

    all the fade is missing is ns1 movement with being able to tap blink, and we might have something going here again. But remember this class isn't the only one needed movement changes, our beloved skulk especially his leap needs momentum and air control as well.

    Have you even tried the mod? Or even the vanilla game?!
    Vanilla fade's blink mechanic have some serious balancing issues, you can be invulnerable up to 4 seconds.
    That's enough to get close to the marines(in full blink mode), kill one, get out(in full blink mode).
    That's no fun for either side, you can't shoot what you can't see/hit, and it's far too easy for the fades to do.

    As stated before a cooldown IS needed, not a long one, but one should, without doubt, be there.
    Spamming mouse2 should NOT spam you in and out of blink mode.

    Blink should be used to gain momentum, or confuse marines in combat, while still giving the marines a chance to fight back.
    Which this mod effectively does.

    If you keep fades vulnerable in blink, then you might as well remove the blink effects and make the fade visible. Which I would not prefer.

    If you go the other way and make fades invulnerable in the blink state, together with this mod you created.
    You would STILL have more time to shoot the fades compared to the vanilla version.
    Hence why I said that a HP increase might be nessesary.
    Which would lead to more clever and skillful use of the blink mechanic, while keeping the invulnerablility in blink.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Posts: 2,700Members
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 21 2011, 09:00 PM) »
    Increased walk speed, added air control and strafe stuff :

    That looks really nice for a prototype.

    The thing that really pleases me with the mod is that the movement is starting to get rhytm and flow rather than being clearly separate movement commands. In NS1 the sense of flowing movement was absolutely essential. It was one of the key things that made you feel like a lifeform rather than a player trying to drive a vehicle.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Posts: 3,883Members
    edited December 2011
    QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 22 2011, 01:41 AM) »
    A cooldown is needed if you get immune to damage during blink, because otherwise spamming blink can be used to avoid the higher drain cost. I don't like cooldowns myself, much like I don't like input delays. Especially when you have no indication at all for how long is left on the cooldown. That leaves me at removing the immunity, sadly. I don't see any other way to be able to prevent all of the following:
    1. Stay invisible for extended periods
    2. Travel around the map and have to wait for adrenaline often
    3. Gain something by spamming blink


    To prevent 1 we increase the drain cost
    To prevent 2 we can't put the initial cost to high
    To prevent 3 we have to put a high initial cost, make it impossible by adding a cooldown, or remove any gain from spamming blink.

    Since we can't put a high initial cost due to 2, and I don't think cooldowns are intuitive (or they would be so short that you could just remove the cooldown instead), we have to remove any gain from spamming blink. I encourage you to come up with a way to prevent all three "modes" while keeping the immunity. It would add depth to have it there, and I encourage you to come up with any idea to keep it there while the first two points is being prevented (and not taking away the freedom of movement).

    The solution is actually quite simple, and is built on your change to the fade energy model.

    Invulnerability has a delay that overlaps with no-energy-drain blink; so for very short blinks that drain no energy (with the reasoning that the fade has not yet fully immaterialised), the fade will not be invulnerable. But for blinks longer than that period, the fade will be invulnerable, as the fade should be (because the fade has warped out of existence).

    Another, simpler way to look at it is this: For a short period at the beginning of every blink, the fade is vulnerable (this period coincides with the no-energy-drain period, preventing low-cost blink spam invulnerability); for the period during the blink after that, the fade is invulnerable.

    You will need to add a visual indicator (a slightly different warping effect) to both the third-person and first-person views to coincide with this 'no energy-drain, no invulnerability' "winding up" blink period.




    *One thing to note, from what I saw of your code, it looked like a discrete rather than continuous approach:
    Either <0.15 seconds, and only activation cost (6)
    Or >=0.15 seconds, and activation cost + energy drain (6+input.time*105)
    So for example, if you had a blink that was 0.149 seconds, it would cost 6, but if you had a blink that was 0.151 seconds, it would cost (6+0.151*105)=21.855.
    That is a HUGE difference. I think there is an issue with this. It should really only cost the difference, so: (6+0.001*105)=6.105.
    So perhaps change the one line so that it reads:
    CODE        // Don't deduct energy for blink for a short time to make sure that when we blink
            // we always get at least a short blink out of it
            if Shared.GetTime() > (self.timeBlinkStarted + .15) then

                local energyCost = (input.time - .15) * kBlinkEnergyCost

                player:DeductAbilityEnergy(energyCost)
                
            end
    Notice that for a blink that was exactly 0.15 seconds, energyCost (drain) = (0.15-.15)*105=0. Before, it would have been that energyCost = 0.15*105=15.75.
    Frankly I'd also just change the "greater than" to "greater than or equal to", so the game never needs to calculate it.
    (Never mind.)




    *One possible addition to the blink model, having come out of luns' rant (wow, I know):
    Tapping and not holding blink will cause you to do a blink for the duration of the not-invulnerable, no-energy-drain, different-aesthetic period.

    So what do we end up with?
    Tapping blink: short blinks, no invulnerability, low cost
    Holding blink: long blinks, invulnerability, high cost

    Of course, it must be noted that what this does is cause the minimum blink duration to be set at the no-energy-drain period (0.15 seconds) so you cannot have a blink shorter than the no-energy-drain period.

    Tapping blink, of course, does not allow you to maneuver during the blink, so there is a disadvantage in that there is less control.

    If possible, however, holding the button down for 0.10 seconds would allow you to maneuver for the first 0.10 seconds, but for the remaining 0.05 seconds of the minimum blink duration, you would again have no control.

    Finally:
    Tapping blink: short blinks, no invulnerability, low cost (activation cost only), no intra-blink maneuverability
    Holding blink: long blinks, invulnerability, high cost (activation cost with energy drain), full intra-blink maneuverability
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,864Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 22 2011, 03:01 AM) »
    text

    That is also a very good approach.

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 22 2011, 03:01 AM) »
    The solution is actually quite simple, and is built on your change to the fade energy model.

    Invulnerability has a delay that overlaps with no-energy-drain blink; so for very short blinks that drain no energy (with the reasoning that the fade has not yet fully immaterialised), the fade will not be invulnerable. But for blinks longer than that period, the fade will be invulnerable, as the fade should be (because the fade has warped out of existence).


    I like that a lot, and smart move with the energy difference!

    Some tweaks to the numbers;
    I feel that 0.15 sec might be to much to wait for the invulnerability, and since there isn't such a huge loss to miss the free window anymore, it could probably be lowered to 0.1 sec. With the time to 0.1 sec, the initial cost to 10 and the drain to 100 and go with the extra time doing the draining part, then there is no difference to spam the key every 0.1 second to continuously holding it. Except that you aren't invulnerable.

    As a side note: that delay in the draining cost is in the official code :)
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    ....///\\\....Copy this to your
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  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I tried changing

    CODE
    function Fade:GetCanTakeDamageOverride()
        //yuuki:take damage while blink
        if Shared.GetTime() >= (Blink.timeBlinkStarted + .10) then
            return Alien.GetCanTakeDamageOverride(self) and not self:GetIsBlinking()
            return true
        end
    end


    Since I can't create any server I can't check if it works though. Will see if I get any errors in the console :)
    .....//\\......This is a pylon
    ....///\\\....Copy this to your
    ....\\\///....Signature if you
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    '''''''''''''''''''''Additional Pylons
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