swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
One change I would like to see, is increased adrenaline drain while in blink mode. So the blink mode would be used to gain momentum, and not be too powerful in combat. Currently fades can be in blink for a very long time, which is not much fun for either side. You can't fight what you can't see, and it doesn't take much skill to use. I believe that this mod would fix that. And with skill you would still be able to use blink at the right moments to avoid critical damage.
I think so too swalk. Pretty much all you said there. Would love to see this mod used in the next gathering to get some more feedback from real games :)
<!--quoteo(post=1890862:date=Dec 19 2011, 01:12 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 19 2011, 01:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about lowering fade swipe damage? Just throwing that out there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How would that help against the flat learning curve?
<!--quoteo(post=1890791:date=Dec 18 2011, 04:13 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 18 2011, 04:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does that add anything to the learning curve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't, it takes away the latency advantage fades inherently get when exiting blink into their first attack.
I think this advantage should be addressed before balancing and adjusting the skill ceiling.
I tweaked some numbers and removed invulnerability. After playtesting a bit with Fluid Core I think it's working pretty well: the fade as to play smart and not just blink straight towards the marines. And it allows for a some fun kills, e.g. shotguning an invisible fade to death. Main skill here is to predict what you opponent will do. The rifle becomes more powerful also.
I actually prefer the rifle against a fade with that blink, the ability to predict the movement and to shoot while it approaches is very strong. I think I won a JP-fade duel when I had the rifle too :)
I like the blink a lot, with the removed invulnerability I think that the energy costs are pretty good. It feels very smooth, easy to pick up but much harder to position yourself for quick kills.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1890886:date=Dec 19 2011, 05:01 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Dec 19 2011, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't, it takes away the latency advantage fades inherently get when exiting blink into their first attack.
I think this advantage should be addressed before balancing and adjusting the skill ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Makes more sense to change other parts of the blink model to negate that advantage rather than add a delay. Especially since input delays are extremely annoying for the player, just compare it to the ridiculously long marine weapon switch delays currently in NS2. With the blink model proposed above, it isn't even an issue anymore.
<!--quoteo(post=1890726:date=Dec 18 2011, 05:12 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 18 2011, 05:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I put my head in sand, I can't see you. Therefore you can't see me. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As it currently works: If I put my head in the sand, I can still see you, but you can't see me.
Soylent_green, what I meant by that line was that just because someone can't see me, it isn't logical that I can't see them. The bizzare creature in the guide to the galaxy comes to mind; which could only see you if you looked at it. It was a logic comparison, not an fade one. If you want that, I'd say that if I stand on one side of a window with bright lights on, and you stand on the other side but shuts of the lights there, then you can still see me but I can't see you.
But back on topic. Many predators works with camouflage of some sort. I don't see a logical problem with the fade using a, to our eyes anyway, more advanced kind. Making the fade unable to see marines during blink would not serve logic nor game-play purposes. Since marines are ranged, it doesn't put them in a great disadvantage to have to guess where the fade will end up, but it would greatly hurt the skill to play a fade to have to guess marine locations. Note that in the latest implementation of the blink, you can still be shot for full damage while ethereal.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1890977:date=Dec 20 2011, 11:20 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 20 2011, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note that in the latest implementation of the blink, you can still be shot for full damage while ethereal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure what I think about this, sounds like it's wierd. Shooting what you can't see.
I have no problem with the idea of shooting something you can't see. With that trade off of fade taking damage while in ethereal, then they should be granted the inertia bonus.
Smart fade players will learn maneuvers to avoid taking damage (serpentine! Serpentine!!!) and smart marine players will no where to unload ammunition in hopes to land some final damage.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
I would much rather like to see the increased adrenaline drain approach(try doubling the drain), tbh. Shooting what you can't see is all down to luck, I don't really like that this luck is being a large factor in taking down fades. Instead, with the increased adrenaline drain approach, fades would only be in blink for a short time to gain forward momentum. You would effectively have more time to shoot it. Because if the fade stayed in blink mode all the way next to you, he would be out of energy when he reached you. And therefore having trouble getting away. Good fade players would only use blink to avoid critical damage, and gain momentum. Quite different from the current hold mouse2 to become invul/invis.
<!--quoteo(post=1890722:date=Dec 18 2011, 05:24 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Dec 18 2011, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're in some other dimension and marines can't see you, why can you see them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A 2d creature (dimension N+1) can see a 1d creature (dimension N), but a 1d creature can't always see a 2d creature. 3d can see 2d, 2d can't always see 3d etc..
.............................................__ .......................................... /. . .\ 2d ......................................o...\___/ .................................o....... ......can see 1d......o............ ......................o.................. ..................o................... .............o..................... 1d ________ o o o o o o Looks o o o o o o o Can't see 2d ......................................... ........................................
<!--quoteo(post=1890980:date=Dec 20 2011, 12:19 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Dec 20 2011, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890980"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure what I think about this, sounds like it's wierd. Shooting what you can't see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was against this too before I tried it. Hitting an ethereal fade still produce blood though, not to mention setting it on fire... You see when you hit, so that doesn't feel to weird. It doesn't feel just like luck when you hit it, but I can agree that removing invulnerability lose some depth as you can't blink to avoid a damaging blow (other then getting out of reach for it).
I believe the adrenaline cost was increased some, and I think it feels about right now. I use it for the speed increase mainly, not for the invisibility. If the drain was so much that you would run out of energy for blinking all the way next to someone, then the speed increase would have to be so much that you just need to blink about 25% of the distance or so to fly the whole way, and then the speed would need to be insanely fast since you can't arc much in a normal hallway. Leading to super-short tapping of blinks, making shorter blinks very hard to manage. In big rooms like Crevice you stay much longer outside of blink, as you can aim higher and ride the arc.
<!--quoteo(post=1891007:date=Dec 20 2011, 02:17 PM:name=Smasher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smasher @ Dec 20 2011, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A 2d creature (dimension N+1) can see a 1d creature (dimension N), but a 1d creature can't always see a 2d creature. 3d can see 2d, 2d can't always see 3d etc..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent explanation. I didn't realize that fades Kharaa were multi-dimensional before. Does that make them into hyper-objects (gorges being hyper spheres...)? :P Hopefully they still only have one time dimension though :)
>I would much rather like to see the increased adrenaline drain approach(try doubling the drain), tbh.
You can try, you need to change kBlinkEnergyCost in balance.lua I think. I increased it a bit but also reduced air friction, so it doesn't change so much (same speed for the same energy cost).
Ideally I would like to be able to travel significant portion of the map without having to stop to recharge energy (should require some training though). Also the main cause of death for the fade shouldn't be lack of energy.
>Shooting what you can't see is all down to luck
It's not really the impression I had in the 1v1 test we did, have a look at the shotgun kill at the beginning, doesn't seem random to me (it wasn't prepared, unlike the gl one :). If you can predict where your opponent will blink you can shoot it, if you can predict what your opponent will predict you can avoid to be shotted; mind games and stuff. You could also add some visual indicators, e.g. a more directional blink cloud effect, or even some particles during the blink to help the marines.
Anyway we should try all possible combinations, and see what works best. I also tried to remove Invisibility or to make the fade flickers during blink, but it worked only offline...
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1891011:date=Dec 20 2011, 02:33 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 20 2011, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can try, you need to change kBlinkEnergyCost in balance.lua I think. I increased it a bit but also reduced air friction, so it doesn't change so much (same speed for the same energy cost).
Ideally I would like to be able to travel significant portion of the map without having to stop to recharge energy (should require some training though). Also the main cause of death for the fade shouldn't be lack of energy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im not proposing energy depletion as main cause of death for the fades. But they should be careful with their adrenaline, tapping it to travel(momentum and preserves adrenaline). So trying to use the blink for "longer" invis/invul travels(like you can do with the current blink model), depletes your energy. It still seems like you can be in blink mode for a very long time, judging from the videos. Doubling the vanilla drain cost could fix that I think. If you double the drain, you should still be able to travel and preserve your adrenaline. A removal/decrease of the initial adrenaline cost(upon blink activation) might be nessesary.
<!--quoteo(post=1891011:date=Dec 20 2011, 02:33 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 20 2011, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->>Shooting what you can't see is all down to luck
It's not really the impression I had in the 1v1 test we did, have a look at the shotgun kill at the beginning, doesn't seem random to me (it wasn't prepared, unlike the gl one :). If you can predict where your opponent will blink you can shoot it, if you can predict what your opponent will predict you can avoid to be shotted; mind games and stuff. You could also add some visual indicators, e.g. a more directional blink cloud effect, or even some particles during the blink to help the marines.
Anyway we should try all possible combinations, and see what works best. I also tried to remove Invisibility or to make the fade flickers during blink, but it worked only offline...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well the fade you're fighting in the video is blinking directly at you. If he is blinking around the room, it's all down to luck when you can't see him. You can remove the luck factor by giving a trailing effect to the blink mode, but that doesn't add much to gameplay, imo. With my proposed model, he would be visible before the moment where you killed him. Unless he used most of his adrenaline, and would <i>then</i> have trouble getting away. Invis/invul is not a problem if it can't be overused.
I feel that the time to run out of energy while blinking around and swiping is about right. To promote shorter blinks you could perhaps increase the drain more but lower the initial cost, to keep the level about the same for short blinks. It takes about 3.3 sec to run out of adrenaline in a continuous blink right now. Will test how much that is with the official version.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1891029:date=Dec 20 2011, 04:30 PM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 20 2011, 04:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891029"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel that the time to run out of energy while blinking around and swiping is about right. To promote shorter blinks you could perhaps increase the drain more but lower the initial cost, to keep the level about the same for short blinks. It takes about 3.3 sec to run out of adrenaline in a continuous blink right now. Will test how much that is with the official version.
In official this time is about 4 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can go very far in the blink state in 3.3/4 secs, which is what worries me. That should be lowered to somewhere around 2 seconds with full energy, in my opinion. With the future adrenaline upgrade you would obviously be able to do a little longer blinks. The only other thing you have to make sure about when finding the right values is; Traveling with the momentum of short blinks, should not deplete your energy. If you do it right, you should be able to stay at full/almost full while traveling. To do this you might also need to tweak how fast the fade adrenaline regenerates. Hell, even fade HP might need a tweak with a change like this. It makes them more visible, <b>and</b> less invulnerable. Would like to see a version of the mod(maybe with a video? :P) where you try what I proposed. As shooting at invisible objects is all down to luck, and is a very frustrating and unintuitive mechanic for both sides.
<ul><li>Blink drain increased to 105 (was 40, original 35)</li><li>Blink start cost reduced to 6 (originally 10)</li><li>Swipe cost reduced to 6 (originally 7)</li></ul>
I think those changes are balanced and it feels great with the model. Why this drastic increase in drain? I found this line in the blink.lua you see... <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // Don't deduct energy for blink for a short time to make sure that when we blink // we always get at least a short blink out of it if Shared.GetTime() > (self.timeBlinkStarted + .15) then
local energyCost = input.time * kBlinkEnergyCost
player:DeductAbilityEnergy(energyCost)
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
So very short blinks only trigger the initial cost. This allows for many short blinks, but you quickly run out if you stay invisible. I changed the swipe cost because I didn't like running completely out of energy killing a powernode from full.
<!--quoteo(post=1890883:date=Dec 19 2011, 11:38 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 19 2011, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How would that help against the flat learning curve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it is very sad that we're trying to arbitrarily "make skill matter" (make the game harder for new players), rather than addressing the issue that is the low-risk high-reward overpoweredness of the fade. These may be similar concepts in practice (changing the fade so that playing better = more effective), but there is a different underlying intention, and the solutions will differ: the former punishes new players (destroys accessibility), and the latter rewards experienced players (provides depth and longevity). This is a thought I often get when I read some of the suggestions and feedback on these forums, and it really is quite depressing.
I'm not sure how much that's applicable to the most recent ideas in this discussion, but the underlying sentiment is there.
What was wrong with the preservation of momentum idea again, and why are we encouraging very short blinks?
Updated the main post with the files. The momentum is still preserved, but now you can get damaged while blinking too. We're trying to encourage short durations in ethereal mode, not short blinking. You're supposed to sail through the air :)
I would say that depends on how you view the warp. I was initially against removing invulnerability, but I can't deny that it plays very well. May be inconsistent. Then again, isn't cloaking using the same visuals, and you can shoot someone out of that...
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
I seriously think you should keep the invulnerablility while in blink mode, now that it is used for shorter durations. Also, there needs to be some kind of cooldown on how often you can use blink. Now it's spam mouse2 -> blink effects all over. The cooldown just have to fit with; the time it takes the fade to blink a fitting distance. Would need some testing to get it right, but worth it in the end.
Comments
So the blink mode would be used to gain momentum, and not be too powerful in combat.
Currently fades can be in blink for a very long time, which is not much fun for either side.
You can't fight what you can't see, and it doesn't take much skill to use.
I believe that this mod would fix that.
And with skill you would still be able to use blink at the right moments to avoid critical damage.
How would that help against the flat learning curve?
It doesn't, it takes away the latency advantage fades inherently get when exiting blink into their first attack.
I think this advantage should be addressed before balancing and adjusting the skill ceiling.
pretty well: the fade as to play smart and not just blink straight towards the marines. And it allows for a some fun kills,
e.g. shotguning an invisible fade to death. Main skill here is to predict what you opponent will do. The rifle becomes more powerful also.
Fade vs. fade is also quite interesting ^^
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TSpFLrgNSH8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TSpFLrgNSH8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
I like the blink a lot, with the removed invulnerability I think that the energy costs are pretty good. It feels very smooth, easy to pick up but much harder to position yourself for quick kills.
I think this advantage should be addressed before balancing and adjusting the skill ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Makes more sense to change other parts of the blink model to negate that advantage rather than add a delay. Especially since input delays are extremely annoying for the player, just compare it to the ridiculously long marine weapon switch delays currently in NS2. With the blink model proposed above, it isn't even an issue anymore.
As it currently works: If I put my head in the sand, I can still see you, but you can't see me.
But back on topic. Many predators works with camouflage of some sort. I don't see a logical problem with the fade using a, to our eyes anyway, more advanced kind. Making the fade unable to see marines during blink would not serve logic nor game-play purposes. Since marines are ranged, it doesn't put them in a great disadvantage to have to guess where the fade will end up, but it would greatly hurt the skill to play a fade to have to guess marine locations. Note that in the latest implementation of the blink, you can still be shot for full damage while ethereal.
I'm not sure what I think about this, sounds like it's wierd. Shooting what you can't see.
I have no problem with the idea of shooting something you can't see. With that trade off of fade taking damage while in ethereal, then they should be granted the inertia bonus.
Smart fade players will learn maneuvers to avoid taking damage (serpentine! Serpentine!!!) and smart marine players will no where to unload ammunition in hopes to land some final damage.
Shooting what you can't see is all down to luck, I don't really like that this luck is being a large factor in taking down fades.
Instead, with the increased adrenaline drain approach, fades would only be in blink for a short time to gain forward momentum.
You would effectively have more time to shoot it.
Because if the fade stayed in blink mode all the way next to you, he would be out of energy when he reached you.
And therefore having trouble getting away. Good fade players would only use blink to avoid critical damage, and gain momentum.
Quite different from the current hold mouse2 to become invul/invis.
A 2d creature (dimension N+1) can see a 1d creature (dimension N), but a 1d creature can't always see a 2d creature. 3d can see 2d, 2d can't always see 3d etc..
.............................................__
.......................................... /. . .\ 2d
......................................o...\___/
.................................o.......
......can see 1d......o............
......................o..................
..................o...................
.............o.....................
1d ________ o o o o o o Looks o o o o o o o Can't see 2d
.........................................
........................................
I was against this too before I tried it. Hitting an ethereal fade still produce blood though, not to mention setting it on fire... You see when you hit, so that doesn't feel to weird. It doesn't feel just like luck when you hit it, but I can agree that removing invulnerability lose some depth as you can't blink to avoid a damaging blow (other then getting out of reach for it).
I believe the adrenaline cost was increased some, and I think it feels about right now. I use it for the speed increase mainly, not for the invisibility. If the drain was so much that you would run out of energy for blinking all the way next to someone, then the speed increase would have to be so much that you just need to blink about 25% of the distance or so to fly the whole way, and then the speed would need to be insanely fast since you can't arc much in a normal hallway. Leading to super-short tapping of blinks, making shorter blinks very hard to manage. In big rooms like Crevice you stay much longer outside of blink, as you can aim higher and ride the arc.
<!--quoteo(post=1891007:date=Dec 20 2011, 02:17 PM:name=Smasher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smasher @ Dec 20 2011, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A 2d creature (dimension N+1) can see a 1d creature (dimension N), but a 1d creature can't always see a 2d creature. 3d can see 2d, 2d can't always see 3d etc..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent explanation. I didn't realize that fades Kharaa were multi-dimensional before. Does that make them into hyper-objects (gorges being hyper spheres...)? :P Hopefully they still only have one time dimension though :)
You can try, you need to change kBlinkEnergyCost in balance.lua I think. I increased it a bit but also reduced air friction, so it doesn't change so much (same speed for the same energy cost).
Ideally I would like to be able to travel significant portion of the map without having to stop to recharge energy (should require some training though). Also the main cause of death for the fade shouldn't be lack of energy.
>Shooting what you can't see is all down to luck
It's not really the impression I had in the 1v1 test we did, have a look at the shotgun kill at the beginning, doesn't seem random to me (it wasn't prepared, unlike the gl one :). If you can predict where your opponent will blink you can shoot it, if you can predict what your opponent will predict you can avoid to be shotted; mind games and stuff.
You could also add some visual indicators, e.g. a more directional blink cloud effect, or even some particles during the blink to help the marines.
Anyway we should try all possible combinations, and see what works best. I also tried to remove Invisibility or to make the fade flickers during blink, but it worked only offline...
Ideally I would like to be able to travel significant portion of the map without having to stop to recharge energy (should require some training though). Also the main cause of death for the fade shouldn't be lack of energy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im not proposing energy depletion as main cause of death for the fades.
But they should be careful with their adrenaline, tapping it to travel(momentum and preserves adrenaline).
So trying to use the blink for "longer" invis/invul travels(like you can do with the current blink model), depletes your energy.
It still seems like you can be in blink mode for a very long time, judging from the videos.
Doubling the vanilla drain cost could fix that I think.
If you double the drain, you should still be able to travel and preserve your adrenaline.
A removal/decrease of the initial adrenaline cost(upon blink activation) might be nessesary.
<!--quoteo(post=1891011:date=Dec 20 2011, 02:33 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 20 2011, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->>Shooting what you can't see is all down to luck
It's not really the impression I had in the 1v1 test we did, have a look at the shotgun kill at the beginning, doesn't seem random to me (it wasn't prepared, unlike the gl one :). If you can predict where your opponent will blink you can shoot it, if you can predict what your opponent will predict you can avoid to be shotted; mind games and stuff.
You could also add some visual indicators, e.g. a more directional blink cloud effect, or even some particles during the blink to help the marines.
Anyway we should try all possible combinations, and see what works best. I also tried to remove Invisibility or to make the fade flickers during blink, but it worked only offline...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the fade you're fighting in the video is blinking directly at you.
If he is blinking around the room, it's all down to luck when you can't see him.
You can remove the luck factor by giving a trailing effect to the blink mode, but that doesn't add much to gameplay, imo.
With my proposed model, he would be visible before the moment where you killed him.
Unless he used most of his adrenaline, and would <i>then</i> have trouble getting away.
Invis/invul is not a problem if it can't be overused.
In official this time is about 4 seconds.
In official this time is about 4 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can go very far in the blink state in 3.3/4 secs, which is what worries me.
That should be lowered to somewhere around 2 seconds with full energy, in my opinion.
With the future adrenaline upgrade you would obviously be able to do a little longer blinks.
The only other thing you have to make sure about when finding the right values is;
Traveling with the momentum of short blinks, should not deplete your energy.
If you do it right, you should be able to stay at full/almost full while traveling.
To do this you might also need to tweak how fast the fade adrenaline regenerates.
Hell, even fade HP might need a tweak with a change like this.
It makes them more visible, <b>and</b> less invulnerable.
Would like to see a version of the mod(maybe with a video? :P) where you try what I proposed.
As shooting at invisible objects is all down to luck, and is a very frustrating and unintuitive mechanic for both sides.
Changes
<ul><li>Blink drain increased to 105 (was 40, original 35)</li><li>Blink start cost reduced to 6 (originally 10)</li><li>Swipe cost reduced to 6 (originally 7)</li></ul>
I think those changes are balanced and it feels great with the model. Why this drastic increase in drain? I found this line in the blink.lua you see...
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // Don't deduct energy for blink for a short time to make sure that when we blink
// we always get at least a short blink out of it
if Shared.GetTime() > (self.timeBlinkStarted + .15) then
local energyCost = input.time * kBlinkEnergyCost
player:DeductAbilityEnergy(energyCost)
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
So very short blinks only trigger the initial cost. This allows for many short blinks, but you quickly run out if you stay invisible. I changed the swipe cost because I didn't like running completely out of energy killing a powernode from full.
<a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=36033" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index....st&id=36033</a>
I think it is very sad that we're trying to arbitrarily "make skill matter" (make the game harder for new players), rather than addressing the issue that is the low-risk high-reward overpoweredness of the fade. These may be similar concepts in practice (changing the fade so that playing better = more effective), but there is a different underlying intention, and the solutions will differ: the former punishes new players (destroys accessibility), and the latter rewards experienced players (provides depth and longevity). This is a thought I often get when I read some of the suggestions and feedback on these forums, and it really is quite depressing.
I'm not sure how much that's applicable to the most recent ideas in this discussion, but the underlying sentiment is there.
What was wrong with the preservation of momentum idea again, and why are we encouraging very short blinks?
Also, there needs to be some kind of cooldown on how often you can use blink. Now it's spam mouse2 -> blink effects all over.
The cooldown just have to fit with; the time it takes the fade to blink a fitting distance.
Would need some testing to get it right, but worth it in the end.