NS2_Fracture

HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
edited June 2013 in Mapping
For the past few months I've been working on my ns2 map, Its based around the simple idea of having both teams start at fixed locations at opposite ends of a map, divided into two halves. I want to create a map thats fairly unique and this seemed like an original, workable concept. Although every other element of the maps design is open to change, retaining the this basic design is something I feel should be at the heart of all choices and experiments I make going forward.

Here's the current layout and the build we played today:
xKcfKY7.jpg
An annotated version to explain the basic layout:
n55sola.jpg
Excuse the cheesy greek titan/god names for locations, at this point in time I am more concerned with making something fun than explaining the purpose of rooms. They will do the job for the time being.

Today we played the first ever game on the map. Aliens easily wiped the floor with us marines, we lost most the early engagements and found it hard to regain any ground. That said one game is hardly a large sample and I'll wait for a few more to get some deeper insight into the flaws of the design. Though I can say with some certainty its unbalanced in favour of aliens. I believe this is mainly due to the distances marines have to travel to get to key locations in the map, aliens move faster and in turn can reinforce their front lines faster. It probably should be said I was commanding marines, so its even less representative of a normal game when your commanders fixated on travel times and how engagements playout.

Based on this one game, and a bit of thinking here's my first thoughts on changes to make marines have a slightly easier time getting around the map:
bJReCwA.jpg

In the mean time whole map will be scaled down slightly, corridors were too wide and ceilings were generally too high. I'll be resolving these issues before I commit to any more drastic changes.
If anyone has any feedback, suggestions, found any bugs or has results from games played throughout the week here's the place to let me know.

*Workshop link*
Thanks
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Comments

  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    I only joined in on the end of this map on marines side :P
    Would have loved to have seen more of it, look forward to future games.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    I had a great game there, as marines we tried phase gates everywhere i think and we fucked up, not map problem but players problem. I would have built second base quickly and maintain ground, as we did on caged. Anyway, i would make normal connections between left and right side in the middle area. But i understand what you want to do so lets play some more games.

    I like the new layout. It balances the problem with no middle left/right connection with faster navigation for marines.

  • WhiteDevilWhiteDevil Join Date: 2012-09-16 Member: 159559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I took a little run around after the play tests and I think the map "being too big" isn't the issue but I guess the aliens are left a bit open in the corridors. You can pretty much reach every part of the map in about 22-30 secs, so the bases and resources are not too close and not too far either. I think the right side of the map was a little too confusing, the layout was hard to read quickly with so many rooms and routes. I think the left side is working better.
  • Rellik_ptRellik_pt Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181205Members
    why you decide to put only the left side of the map with more res points?
    5 points in left side 4 in right side. not counting the starts. i feel the right side res is too spread and less vantage to hold right now.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    There's 2 TPs on the right side though
  • Rellik_ptRellik_pt Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181205Members
    yes but the distance of res is huge compare to the left, just asking why he decide that away, when res is more important
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    I think the EAST/WEST split of tps and res is pretty even in strategic value, but I'd agree the distances still need a lot of work.
    I had to extend the distances as it wouldn't be balanced to give both teams a completely free tp. For Aliens side I think I'll rework the routes so cysting can go from cronus to ourea making it more affordable to expand to that tp in the early game.
    I'd guess any marine team that lets aliens have a tp without contesting it is doomed to fail. the idea is that it forces both teams to try manage both sides. There's a lot of value in denying the other team the rt or tps they need as opposed to just capturing what you need.
    On top of that I think it breaks up the symmetrical nature of the map and spices things up.
    Also I'm not a fan of 4 tp maps and It wouldn't surprise me if marines are going to have their tech split over free tech points in the future.
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    edited April 2013
    Just published an experimental build for the next playtest.
    Made it easier for marines to defend their closest rts, less hiding spots for aliens, contracted a few corridors and removed hermes.
    Should be interesting to see how it affects gameplay before i make the drastic changes.
    K9nDTGj.jpg
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    You didn't remove Hermes! It's still there, on the map! :P

    Looking forward to giving it another whirl. :)
  • FunkyFungusFunkyFungus Join Date: 2003-09-09 Member: 20691Members
    looking good :)
    commander there is a hive in ur anus!!! ... :P
  • -WildCat--WildCat- Cape Town, South Africa Join Date: 2008-07-19 Member: 64664Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just finished a fun little game on Chasm. Aliens kicked the Marines asses for the most part, which surprised me because my first impression of the map was that many of the rooms and corridors seemed too large. I'm not sure... maybe the seemingly large room sizes are just an optical illusion caused by the dev textures. I was expecting it to be too easy for the Marines to mow down the Aliens. Maybe the Marine team was just rather bad.

    I definitely like the concept of the split in the middle.
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Wildcat: I was thinking the same thing would happen too and was surprised the maps turned out as unbalanced as it is to. After sunday I'll start remaking the map from scratch again, downscaling, simplifying and restructuring so everything is easier to tweak in terms of travel distances and stuff. The layout for the most part won't change too much.
    I'll also be building an experimental build with a central bridge going between the two sides, I think the disconnect between the sides requires too much coordination from marines to hold. I guess we'll know with more testing.
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    I've made some adjustments to the old layout as I wanted to experiment with a few changes before starting the second build of the map. Its been published under a new workshop ID as i wanted to avoid any problems on that side.
    The current changes simplify the layout further, centralise the combat more, force aliens to expand out more, make it a little harder for marines to pin the aliens down on the alien side of the map and harder for aliens to snipe the marine rts. 
    image

    After this weekend I'll be starting the map from scratch retaining the best elements and ideas but removing some fundamental flaws with the current design. It'll be a fairly drastic change however this was always an experimental build for me to learn spark and test out a few ideas. While the next iteration will bring the layout closer to conventional NS2 maps It should still be quite unique. In the next few weeks I'll be focusing on art and finalizing the visual style of the map. So it will probably be a good month or two before I publish the reimagined gray box version.  
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    I spent the last week rebuilding chasm from scratch, as there was too many issues with the original build and patching them all up would just take even longer. The first iteration served me well as a way of learning the editor and a point of reference. Its early days yet as we only played three games but its an improvement on the original.
    7evBe3E.jpg
    The map still feels a little too big, so I'll spend the next week resolving any issues with the timings and scale.
    I'm not completely happy with the flow between ceremony and the Crossing. Once I can identify the problems I'll redesign the central area to resolve the issues.
    As always I really welcome all feedback, suggestions and crits.
  • dragonmithdragonmith Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    Was still great fun to play :)

  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    So Gash is like chasm 2.0
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Oblivious did some timing and cyst distance diagrams for me. I thought I'd share these as they're very helpful in understanding and pin pointing any issues with the map.
    NoYsmSL.jpg
    1EVhXaz.jpg
  • troopstroops Wales Join Date: 2003-02-17 Member: 13664Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited June 2013
    Nice work Oblivious, very helpful.

    It was fun to play, didn't really get to see bottom half as alien. Marines seem to constantly push us at the park and reception.

    But it's a nice change up from the old map, still few places to work on but i like it. Really does need more game time though want to check the crossing out more.

    I've got some game play i'll be uploading to youtube for you later to look at.

    I also did some game play of the map on sunday. It's my first time and i forgot to record my voice(might be a good thing)
    ns2_Gash
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    The biggest problem areas are ceremony and the crossing. Ceremony mostly just appears to act a marine route to the rest of the map. It's going be simplified some more. I'll do a experimental build with two high risk RT's shared between the two rooms, instead of the one.
    I also need to improve the flow into Upload.
    I think the lack of vents and extensive use of corridors is what stops the aliens pushing marines back once they decide to hold certain choke points.
    I'm going to start rethinking the corridors so the connections between rooms seem more natural and then add any vents to break any OP choke points.
    But first I need to test the new down scaled version I'll get on the workshop tomorrow. Its about 15% smaller.
    2Xbys3O.jpg
    Red outlines are the latest layout.
    Also I need name suggestions, NS2_gash might work for comedy value. But I'm certainly not keeping it. Any ideas?
    The canyon and map split is the main feature of the map.
    ns2_Fracture or NS2_Rift is the best I've got so far.
  • Dr_RandomDr_Random Join Date: 2013-04-18 Member: 184884Members
    ns2_fissure?

    This was quite fun to play the other day, and I like watching the developments you've made/are making!
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    I knew what it was going to look like and I'm still absolutely amazed. I'm also jealous of your artistic abilities
  • PandademicPandademic Join Date: 2013-02-26 Member: 183359Members
    I was going to say your art style reminds me a lot of David Lynch's Dune. Then I saw that you're using a desert planet theme, with a quasi religious vibe. Well, that settles it. You have to rename it ns2_Arrakis.
  • Rudy.czRudy.cz Join Date: 2012-02-13 Member: 145410Members
  • Rudy.czRudy.cz Join Date: 2012-02-13 Member: 145410Members
    edited June 2013
    Okey, after few minutes of staring into the screen I can give you some feedback.

    First, it is absolutely fabulous!! Second, these screen shots surely are very busy, maybe too much, but you have already noted that in your elaborate above. Also looks more steam-punk than scifi-deco though. I think it will require addition of some Hi-tech elements like led-lights, outline neon lights, computer screens etc.

    One thing that comes to mind to resolve busy feeling is to focus more on clear textures, especially for floor and walls. Its not about to scrape all the detailed textures, but most of the Level design is done by shapes created from "world" mesh and it is very hard to "squeeze" busy textures onto busy architecture. Detailed textures are quite useful for ceilings (so you can keep them relatively flat -> win for skulks) and for special features (detailed piece of wall).

    The detail effort saved on walls can be put in trim textures and the props.
    Howser wrote: »
    The biggest Issue I've had with making sci-fi textures is focusing too much on creating an interesting 2d surface one its own. In practice a texture like this has very little use for mappers, there's too much contrast and the detail frequencies are just too high:
    ybDng6H.jpg

    I really would not give hope on this one. If the diamond shape sticks to 4/8 grid, extruded hole could be cut there and added detail like a grating or exposed pipings/wirings. If you keep the grid in your mind when creating shapes on detailed textures, you are giving the designers tool how to create nice details by using those shapes already incorporated in your textures.

    Also love the panels on this texture, they could make a nice simple wall texture on its own.

    But despite all, it is definitively amazing piece of environment design already as it is. I would be delighted if I could get hand on those assets and give a try to create a art test room for you. Unfortunately my Steam is blocked by Steam Guard ATM, and I am still waiting till they resolve it... :(

  • TharosTharos Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175439Members
    I love your concept art and you room with custom texture :

    Drool+Rainbows+HD.png
  • Rellik_ptRellik_pt Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181205Members
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Thanks for the feedback and the kind words.
    The current texture set is very low quality, there's no grime pass, very little fine detail and they're pretty much just AO and cavity maps layered over generic surfaces. This works for prototyping, but once you get up close you can see how crappy they are. Once the maps finished being grey boxed I'll get on with rebuilding them into a much more polished and usable state, hopefully something closer to the very high NS2 standard (if i can achieve that). Once I have enough basic assets I'll be happy to share them with everyone on the forums for putting through their paces.

    Pandademic: I actually tried to watch dune recently (after making this stuff), Its pretty bloody awful for a lyncher film but the environments were nice, though very very goofy. There's plenty of films that use the art deco/sci-fi hybrid. fifth element, AI and blade runner are some obvious ones. Though I can't really think of any games?! The main source of inspiration has been real world art deco, I wanted to create my own take on blending the two themes as opposed to stealing off other artists.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Its reminds me of Dishonored
  • PandademicPandademic Join Date: 2013-02-26 Member: 183359Members
    Didn't meant to accuse of borrowing, not at all. I couldn't even tell you what art deco is, I just loved the look of Lynch's film, and was excited to see something similar. The very tried and very true style in NS2 could use some spice. It's fantastic that you're raising the bar with some goddamn gorgeous work combing different styles. Like flaterectomy has mixed some roman style pillars/arches in his co_portals room, it's really fun seeing these old styles mixed with sci-fi elements. The gold accents you're using, especially that banister, looks amazing.
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