<!--quoteo(post=1895569:date=Jan 19 2012, 02:09 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jan 19 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not really too keen on the idea that the commander shouldn't be the centralised leader - is the idea of the alien commander to be constantly swapped between members of the team? I say this because if the role is to only affect infrastructure it would be best to continually be hopping in and out so the aliens have an extra member on the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
<!--quoteo(post=1895569:date=Jan 19 2012, 02:09 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jan 19 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The proposed pheromones idea does sound an awful lot like glorified waypoints. That is to say, not particularly integral to the execution of the role. I have no problem with implementing them, it's a cool alternative way of giving orders but let's not pretend its a gameplay mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> On the contrary, a global "marker" would be more useful to both sides, on account of its ease - you don't have to select a unit to give a "waypoint" (order), you just place a "marker" (objective) and the whole team acts accordingly. However, although waypoints would be pretty useless for the alien team as they don't move in groups and microing individual aliens would be a nightmare (as Charlie pointed out), for the marines, waypoints might at least see some use because of the squad mechanic, and it would allow the marine commander to split resources between multiple objectives. Frankly, the marine commander needs more information in order to better do his job, the first thing that comes to mind is putting an "equipment" icon(s) above each marine's head, which summarises all their equipment, making them more like RTS units.
<!--quoteo(post=1895595:date=Jan 19 2012, 04:25 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 19 2012, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the Marines:
Squads need sorting out first, because finding players to select on screen then send them to locations means you have to do a merry old screen dance and is frustrating.
I voiced a long time ago a system needed for squads, whereby:
# The commander sets the number for squads he wants (minimum 2) with + and - keys.
# You are automatically assigned to a squad.
# The squad you are in is defined by who you hang around with, so if you are in blue squad but spend more time in red, you join red squad.
# There is a cool off period when you are out of the squad range, so if you move near another squad or die, it takes a little while before you change over.
# The cool off period is 30 seconds, + 10 seconds for every minute you spend in your current squad.
The way, people who hang around with certain players automatically start to form up squads, which works for both commander and players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I support this, or something like this.
If this thread is anything to go by the alien commander does need an major over haul.
In my personal opinion, of the ideas thrown about in this thread a few stand out as the one i'd like to see the direction of the alien commander experience go.
The Commander plays as the infestation. ( I already try to do this when im Kharmander ) But it's could be much more fun.
Removing drifters from building structures other than res towers and hives. I would feel more like i'm tending a garden if a structure just grew out of infestation or I upgraded a cyst into a structure, The Micromanagment of building a drifter then guiding it from a hive to a location just to build a structure is long winded and this mechanic detaches you from the organic feeling of the infestation.
The Marine commander isn't pulled away back to base to build structures other than Arcs and Macs. This is what makes his experience feel like it flows flawlessly. For the Kharmader it's like Marine commander having to build a mac everytime he wan't to place a structure, It's a over complicated feature thats not necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1895658:date=Jan 19 2012, 09:44 AM:name=WorthyRival)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Jan 19 2012, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Removing drifters from building structures other than res towers and hives. I would feel more like i'm tending a garden if a structure just grew out of infestation or I upgraded a cyst into a structure, The Micromanagment of building a drifter then guiding it from a hive to a location just to build a structure is long winded and this mechanic detaches you from the organic feeling of the infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like this idea. As long as the infestation is connected, you should be able to build on infestation directly. The drifter is needless in this case. The drifter makes sense when placing a new hive, since you are essentially establishing a new hub. And if you don't want to make the drifters all but obsolete, make them the "vehicle" for alien commander abilities outside of the infestation network.
Also, I'm not convinced about disconnected cysts' infestation dying on its own, I think it should just sleep (all structures on it are disabled (inc. loss of kham vision), but don't take damage). When the (disconnected) cyst "supporting" the structures go down and the infestation recedes, only then should the structures take damage. This allows marine players to cripple a patch of infestation by striking at a deeper cyst, but not completely annihilate all the structures further out.
A similar reasoning should apply to the marine power node. The power node is an artificial weak point, so it should only confer a temporary advantage, not win the game. Its destruction should disable all structures except the CC and the IPs (since the IPs are linked to, and therefore powered by, the CC). It gives marines some opportunity to fight back at home.
<!--quoteo(post=1895247:date=Jan 17 2012, 05:06 PM:name=Meej)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meej @ Jan 17 2012, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895247"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the whole gardener concept. To the point of where it should be more "hands on". A marine commander actually hops into a center to do his biz, which is cool and totally a human thing to do.
For the alien, it could take a more 3rd-person approach possibly and actually DO the gardening. That is, carrying around buildings ("saplings"?) and plant em into the infestation. I think this sort of dynamic would work great since you didn't want the alien comm to do any real unit commanding to begin with. Plus, I found it kind of weird how the "commanding" unit chills outside the hive sac like a wannabe marine commander in a sweet bunk.
I kind of picture a Zerg queen with special abilities - spawn creep tumors, can attack, heal, etc., but also with the ability to "plant" living buildings. The commander evolves accordingly to the upgrade path chosen and # of hives.
Maybe. :P
(I'd love to elaborate, but before I bore the ears off of others and invest more time than will be read I'll wait for feedback.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. So much this. You could even control your 3rd person commander unit (hive queen) with the top down camera, but maybe its camera is locked directly above the unit?
Basically I think we should explore Meej's idea more.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
I'd like to see Drifters becoming fully fledged spell casters, that benefit from evolution upgrades.
In addition to Flare, it would be great if the Khammander can sacrifice Drifters to cast Umbra, Fury, and Cloak (possibly only with a 2/3 hive upgrade). Perhaps Drifters could also benefit from upgrades such as Camouflage and Carapace after they're unlocked.
As for Pheromones, I think Charlie's design is going to turn out fine.
<!--quoteo(post=1895613:date=Jan 18 2012, 05:53 PM:name=Cerebral)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cerebral @ Jan 18 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895613"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personal opinion here but your incentive in the game should be to win not to see who can get the most points. I personally don't even care what my score is...like ever. I don't see what impact it has on the game experience personally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, but if score means res per kill, or something else that's practically benificial (the way frenzy healing you is, without being "on the scoreboard")...then that's a good way to go with the same idea
All players on either marine or alien team can issue orders through chat and voice. The thing that makes marine comms better at it is mostly the vision, and slightly because of way points. If alien comm should be more of a gardener and less of an orders-giver...then I think the best way to move towards that is to reduce the alien dependency on the comm for information.
A couple "pheromones" for location tagging would be fine (maybe shift-click, alt-click, control-click and regular click be different colors?) It just creates a reference point that can be referred to during normal talking and text. Having a distinct "attack" order to prioritize a marine or structure target would make sense too.
But maybe what is even more important is to just give more info to aliens in general. Aliens could see important structures and each other through hive sight. Careful design would be needed to make sure the visuals don't get too spammy, but I bet it's doable (making farther away things be more transparent, more important things are larger, etc). Maybe hive sight could be toggle able for combat.
As much of these "hive sight" or "pheromone" things should be automatic if possible. I like the idea of aliens seeing a "ghost" version of things alien comm is about to build. Maybe the alien comm could shift-click while building a structure (even without the res) to show where he plans to place the structure via the ghost, but not actually build there yet.
Maybe marines should show up on hive sight whenever they attack or are seen by other aliens. After they stop firing and are no longer seen, a frozen "ghost" silhouette could remain in place in the hive sight for a time, and slowly fade away (maybe 20 seconds). This gives all the aliens time to see the previous position of marines when they were last spotted.
Marine health/armour could be visible to aliens, so commander doesn't have to inform an alien which marine was attacked most in the last engagement that the alien didn't witness.
So basically, think about what information a comm needs to give the troops, and figure out a way to give as much as possible of that info to the alien troops automatically. 1) enemy and structure positions (spotted marine structures stay on hivesight?) 2) Marines who were hurt most in the last engagement 3) Where structures are going (the game supreme commander allowed you to place a lot of ghost structures ahead of actually having res for them) -- maybe alien commander could build ghosts buildings&cysts wherever he wants, and click on them with a "buy" button when he has enough res and infestation? 4) Where the other players on the alien team are,what they are doing, and their condition.
<!--quoteo(post=1895667:date=Jan 18 2012, 06:41 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 18 2012, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see Drifters becoming fully fledged spell casters, that benefit from evolution upgrades.
In addition to Flare, it would be great if the Khammander can sacrifice Drifters to cast Umbra, Fury, and Cloak (possibly only with a 2/3 hive upgrade). Perhaps Drifters could also benefit from upgrades such as Camouflage and Carapace after they're unlocked.
As for Pheromones, I think Charlie's design is going to turn out fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Change the name of drifter to Hive Shadow (Lexx tv show!?!) or something else elite and you know what I'm getting at. A "slightly" powerfull alien drone thingy under the command of his divine shadow er com.
Also <!--quoteo(post=1895665:date=Jan 19 2012, 10:23 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 19 2012, 10:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I quite like number 3. The others, not so much.
Had this discussion in a thread in General, but I think the Kham shouldn't need to build drifters for any building that requires infestation to build on. That is, drifters should only be used to build hives and harvesters - any other structures should be able to be placed on, and grow from, (CONNECTED) infestation directly.
Except that the drifter becomes all but obsolete.
So I think that the drifter should be the vehicle for the Kham's various abilities outside of the infestation network.
I also think that the drifter should be required to form a cyst, but can, of course, be generated by a cyst. This allows you to generate a drifter right at the front lines for quicker major expansions (hives/RTs), but also somewhat slows down minor expansions (increasing the cyst chain). It also makes more sense than cysts magically appearing out of nowhere. <strike>Naturally, generating a drifter should use some sort of resource, possibly hive energy or P.Res. The cost of a cyst for the Kham can be removed, since it should be inherent in the cost of the drifter.</strike> OR simply have a stacking* cooldown on generating drifters, and a maximum number of drifters per hive, and have the cyst keep the cost. This makes the loss of drifters less crippling to the alien team.
*Basically what this means is, you can have up to X number of drifters per hive, each drifter has a cooldown of Y seconds. If you generate one drifter, it takes Y seconds to cooldown the drifter-generation. However, you can generate two drifters at once, and it would take Y seconds to cooldown the first drifter-generation, then another Y seconds. You could technically generate X number of drifters, but it would take a total of X*Y drifters to cooldown all of the drifter-generation. Of course, you can only have X number of drifters per hive in the field at once.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
@internetexplorer: We've already discussed this, but generating resources out of nowhere is a very [...] very bad idea and will not only unbalance the game, but lead to the Kham placing useless orders to buff their team.
Now, if we had a different resource system: <!--quoteo(post=1894824:date=Jan 16 2012, 02:27 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 16 2012, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another downside you haven't mentioned with the NS1 system is that it was necessarily balanced for only one team-size: 6v6. It was also disadvantageous for the alien team especially, since they often couldn't reach the required "floor" of the price. And this was especially dependent on team size. e.g. if an "item" costs 10 res: you have 8 res, someone else might have 8 res, someone else might have 9 res; none of you can get the "item".
Also, NS2's system (for both teams) is significantly different from the NS1 alien evolution system. This is in part because of what is described above. More importantly, however, personal resources <b>scale with the team size</b>. 60/(number of players) res in NS1 is worth 60 personal res in NS2.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Frankly, the ideal system would be for both teams to each have one resource pool, in which each team could somehow specify who gets what. Basically you build on the NS1 marine resource model. AND that somehow resources scaled with team sizes, so that everyone gets an opportunity.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
There are a few ways to approach this, with their own advantages and disadvantages: - Commander kind of decides who gets what; obviously leads to the problems you mentioned above, i.e. exclusivity. <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->- Players get "credit" - every item has a credit AND a resource cost, credit is personal and resource is part of the team pool; it does lead to the problem of a "first come first serve" situation, including the commander not having enough res for an upgrade because some player just purchased a shotgun.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - A combination of the above; commander "builds" x number of y unit, players with enough credit can purchase it; still "first come first serve" but only for the players not the commander.
A couple ways to approach resource scaling with team size: - The most natural is having significant TRFK (team res from kill). The idea is that more players in the game = more targets (sources of TR) AND more hunters (collectors of TR). Ideally, RFT (res from tower) = average res required for base building and team upgrades; and RFK (res from kill) = average res required for individual support (medpacks, ammopacks) and personal "items" (lifeforms, equipment). Can lead to a team-level slippery slope though. - Teams get TRFT (team res from towers) directly proportional to the number of players they have. Not very natural, but less chance of leading to slippery slopes since it will be more dependent on how many resource nodes you hold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1895428:date=Jan 18 2012, 01:37 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 18 2012, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->"Spending power" is a great way to describe "credits". I think that credits should be gained with the following types, in order of decreasing credit income: 1) Following orders, supporting players, etc. 2) Killing or damaging enemy players and structures (like it is with PRFK) 3) A minor trickle proportional to the number of towers you hold (like it is with PRFK) 1 doesn't cause balance issues with self-generated resources, since it is only 'spending power' and not actual 'resources'. 2 rewards players for doing well, but is less than 1 to encourage team-play over lonewolf-play. 3 just gives everyone a starting point or a base-line.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Naturally, in pubs without good communication and cooperation, there might be issues with someone spending res that the commander has been saving up. Perhaps there could be something like a reserve system - the commander could reserve and adjust a minimum amount of resources, for an upgrade or structure, or just permanently. Perhaps also allow the commander to stock weapons - which gives the commander more control when the team res is less than the reserve, and also field weapons when no one has enough credit.
With regard to the giveres system (assuming income scales with playercount, and is split between players), you could streamline it and make it a bit simpler: rather than giving an individual player whatever res, you could just give up res to a team pool. You would spend res, first out of what is in your personal pool, and then out of what is in the team pool. Of course, there could be "vultures" in pubs, but you know...
Pubs are basically outliers, though. We should build the game assuming a reasonable level of cooperation and communication (I'm hoping NS2 will at least have a matchmaking service), then add measures on top of that to discourage poor teamwork and griefing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then you <b>could</b> reward players without unbalancing the game - since "credits" are a representational currency and are only really "spending power", but gaining credits doesn't affect the actual wealth of the team.
There needs to be more discussion about the gardener part! This sounds cool, but there's not enough to do for an alien gardener comm yet. More things to build is obvious, but what about other ideas..
Actually I think the idea of placing "ghost" structures could serve a purpose here as well. Maybe the alien commander could "design" his garden in ghost form on his screen at first (even without the res or infestation spread). Make adjustments as desired, and then when he has infestation and res, choose what parts to build as time goes on. This would be helpful for planning, but also give the commander something to do even while he waits for res for more structures.
A key aspect of gardening is "weeding" or "pruning". Plants grow on their own, without your interaction and so you need to go back and check on them to make adjustments, make sure they are okay, etc. Think of sim city, where you build structures but they develop on their own, and require you to come back to adjust things to suit their needs as they grow.
Maybe alien structures could accrue "growth points" automatically over time, and when they have enough you must "visit" them to upgrade them in various ways. Ideas for upgrades could include: extra health, larger radius of effect, having to unlock their abilities, being able to uproot like whips, adding extra effects to their abilities (like put out fires, poison marines slightly, make area darker).
It's similar to upgrading with res, but could occur more often. And each "plant" has its own growth, so your not just waiting for a global "res" counter to fill up, you have to go around visiting your individual plants to see when they are ready for some "pruning". Maybe structures could all have a "sacrifice" ability to destroy themselves while causing a permanent improvement for structures nearby (like weeding). Example: defense chamber sacs to improve HP of nearby non-hive structures by 10% their starting amount. Hovering over the "sacrifice" button could display the health bonus above nearby structures on the screen.
This is a FANTASTIC opportunity to elevate the necessity and importance of mini-cysts. Comm cysts already have a great deal going on and Gorges don't. Make the relationship between an alien Comm and their Gorge important - make mini-cysts produce these pheromones and change the distribution challenges of Mini-cysts by giving Gorges energy, like the Comm. Or something like that.
I just think that in NS2 alien comm play is not terribly exciting and neither is Gorge play. So link the two roles somehow and create some intriguing choices the two classes can make together.
Also, I know it's your game but I'm not sure I agree with the Alien comm's role being "Gardener." I always thought that was the Gorge's role, tending to all the things the comm grows. He's like the comm's representative in the field. The Comm is more like the heart, the blood of a massive beast. That idea of a 'heartbeat' throughout creep, quieter the farther you are from hives, goes hand in hand with this interpretation. Not a loud beat but perhaps modifiable by player health, number of tumors, etc...
But yeah I think this is a great opportunity to create some interesting game play that might revitalize the alien Comm and gorge roles. The heartbeat idea is just cool, heh.
EDIT: Perhaps the heartbeat volume level could be modifiable by the preponderance of cysts in a particular area and the number of hives. At the start of the game you basically can't hear it but at 4 hives vs heavies it pumps. Killing a hive drops the decibal level as the blood shoots out of it. Anyway, the main con I can imagine for this idea is the annoyance factor of a constant heartbeat. I imagine it adding awesome drama to a team of marines moving towards a hive - if they kill off cysts as they move the heartbeat fades but if they decide to just go straight to the hive the beat gets louder and the drama rises. On the flips side, as an alien I'd kill myself if I had to hear a heartbeat all game every game. Anyway, just some thoughts
Expanding on my <i>RT strengthen mode</i> post and how that relates to commander-unit communication, it's about the comm letting their aliens know an RT needs saving when it's under attack. Maybe from popping a defense cysts on the structure, the RT icon appears on-screen to all aliens as being in distress. Every alien then knows it's under attack without having been given a move order. Without the setting being applied, any aliens that know it's under attack can trust that the commander has decided to let the RT die by judging it's too far away or too heavily attacked to be saved in time.
<!--quoteo(post=1895311:date=Jan 18 2012, 12:55 AM:name=Hudson633)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hudson633 @ Jan 18 2012, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-100% Resource production from that tower +75% Damage resistance to MG/Shotgun +50% Damage resistance to explosives +25% Damage resistance to knife
Allows the commander to give an RT under attack more time to be rescued by aliens, pointless if no aliens are on the way since it stops the production. Ability can be turned on/off with a single click. The structure could lower itself, as if it was trying to get into the fetal position, so the marines can see it's in defense mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
After my first alien comm win today, I decided I really like the role as it is currently. Each hive has it's own energy, so if one hive runs out of energy, switch to a different one, early game, when you run out of energy, hop out of alien comm and help the aliens on the field. I love this aspect, the fact that the alien comm, doesn't need to be supervising his troops all the time. The flexibility in the role is much better.
Also, players can hop in and out of the hives, to drop structures etc as needed, making the alien comm a lot more fluid teamplay role than the marine comm. I really like this mechanic. Don't give too much more for the alien comm to do, or he will become trapped in the hive all day. Pheromones waypointing is good, but overall I like the balance between comming and actually supporting your teammates, rather than the all comming of the marines, it's a nice compromise and makes it slightly a-symetrical.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited January 2012
Sorry, if someone already brought up that idea, but I think the alien commander should be able to create cysts and maybe even hydras on walls aswell to have some proper gardening going on. I'm not really a fan of hydra spam and such, but I think it's kinda strange that the alien commander is supposed to be the gardener, while the gorge can create all that beautifully infested enviroment.
So basicly what I want: -Let the commander be able to zoom into a cyst and watch around like a stationary gorge. -Use commander's personal res to shoot cysts and hydras at walls like the gorge. -Zoom back into comm view -The gorge stays the same
That would also give some room to improve the healer/ fight-supporter capabilities of the gorge and leave players the choice to garden or join fights as a gorge. Alien comms can use a more strategic placement for cysts, since they can aim at walls and ceilings when watching through a cyst. Spam would be limited due to the way personal res works and new commanders won't spend the team res on gardening. This also adds diversity in how the alien territory looks.
I like the idea: possesing a cyst to plant other cysts and hydras. Maybe pressing spacebar to quickly switch to master-overview/possesion-overview. Since the master-overview can place cysts around corners, there should be a healthy mix between floorcysts (further apart) and wall/ceilingcysts (in line of sight of eachother).
And for easy using the possesion-view: this camera should hover a few feet directly above the top of the model.
EDIT: and for balance reasons: the cysts placed in posession view can only be small cysts (they already have the advantage of being on walls)
The Kham is the hivemind, the collective minds of the Kharaa. Because of this, I think that the Kham should be confined largely to where there are Kharaa. You would enter the hive as normal, but instead of the top-down view you would turn into a representation of the hivemind. This would look like a glowy small cloud or something, but only be visible for the Kharaa. You would move around no-clip style, but be bound by physical boundary. You would move very fast nearby infestation, but if you move to far you slow down greatly: the hivemind would focus and be able to go 'outside' of it's body. There would be no drifters, you would point out where to build like gorges do. To make a hive, you would have to slowly creep of the infestation to get there, or push infestation there to move quickly.
Because you are the collective mind, you should be able to instantly jump to any hive or lifeforms. When following a lifeform you could affect them in different ways, and also use them to travel around quickly before you detach from them and move yourself. I think the gorge and Kham should have a special connection, so that you could help the team more potent while focusing on a gorge. Maybe creating hives should need a nearby gorge or infestation?
I have taken many ideas from all the posts I have read here. I think this would create a more fun and unique experience for the Kham, and it would be very useful to be able to see what your team see yourself. Such is the way if the hive-mind :)
My idea could of course be combined with many if the others here, special effects in cysts for example. The suggestion were simply for how the Kham would be played :)
I'm sorry for all spelling errors in the two posts, typing on my phone. Will correct them once I'm on my comp.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1895667:date=Jan 18 2012, 10:41 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 18 2012, 10:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895667"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see Drifters becoming fully fledged spell casters, that benefit from evolution upgrades.
In addition to Flare, it would be great if the Khammander can sacrifice Drifters to cast Umbra, Fury, and Cloak (possibly only with a 2/3 hive upgrade). Perhaps Drifters could also benefit from upgrades such as Camouflage and Carapace after they're unlocked.
As for Pheromones, I think Charlie's design is going to turn out fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
would be interresting to utilize drifters more, but that would make dropping crags/whips directly be totally out of fashion (drifter costs only energy)! "Khammander" should btw become official and displayed in the score board :P
Yes! Yes! The idea of the Alien commander painting colourful clouds onto the environment, showing Aliens where the action is, where the key strategic points are... My mind is full of explosions of wow.
Perhaps...
The Frontiersman commander treats the map as a battlefield. Waypoints, orders, squads, chokepoints.
The Kharaa commander treats the map as a canvas. Pheromones, .... and all the cool stuff in this thread!
I love it. We are humans, so we think like humans. So the Frontiersman commander feels natural. But we need to think like animals and invent new stuff that no one has ever seen in an RTS before!
<!--quoteo(post=1895937:date=Jan 20 2012, 12:36 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Jan 20 2012, 12:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the aliens are in a garden and the marines are destroying it?
I thought neither were the baddies, but you make out the rines to be baddies<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We need too little about the backstory of the universe. I would like to have more backstory woven into the map-design, props, etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1895937:date=Jan 19 2012, 05:36 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Jan 19 2012, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the aliens are in a garden and the marines are destroying it?
I thought neither were the baddies, but you make out the rines to be baddies<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If your garden tried to kill you and assimilate your house/block/planet for the hive, I think you'd try and stomp it out too. Both sides just want to live in peace by murdering the other.
<!--quoteo(post=1895943:date=Jan 20 2012, 01:51 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Jan 20 2012, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If your garden tried to kill you and assimilate your house/block/planet for the hive, I think you'd try and stomp it out too. Both sides just want to live in peace by murdering the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since we are already talking about how we want the Khammander to be, I'd like to take the time and link to another post I made, about how I'd like the dynamic infestation should work :)
Comments
I agree.
<!--quoteo(post=1895569:date=Jan 19 2012, 02:09 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jan 19 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The proposed pheromones idea does sound an awful lot like glorified waypoints. That is to say, not particularly integral to the execution of the role. I have no problem with implementing them, it's a cool alternative way of giving orders but let's not pretend its a gameplay mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the contrary, a global "marker" would be more useful to both sides, on account of its ease - you don't have to select a unit to give a "waypoint" (order), you just place a "marker" (objective) and the whole team acts accordingly. However, although waypoints would be pretty useless for the alien team as they don't move in groups and microing individual aliens would be a nightmare (as Charlie pointed out), for the marines, waypoints might at least see some use because of the squad mechanic, and it would allow the marine commander to split resources between multiple objectives. Frankly, the marine commander needs more information in order to better do his job, the first thing that comes to mind is putting an "equipment" icon(s) above each marine's head, which summarises all their equipment, making them more like RTS units.
<!--quoteo(post=1895595:date=Jan 19 2012, 04:25 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 19 2012, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the Marines:
Squads need sorting out first, because finding players to select on screen then send them to locations means you have to do a merry old screen dance and is frustrating.
I voiced a long time ago a system needed for squads, whereby:
# The commander sets the number for squads he wants (minimum 2) with + and - keys.
# You are automatically assigned to a squad.
# The squad you are in is defined by who you hang around with, so if you are in blue squad but spend more time in red, you join red squad.
# There is a cool off period when you are out of the squad range, so if you move near another squad or die, it takes a little while before you change over.
# The cool off period is 30 seconds, + 10 seconds for every minute you spend in your current squad.
The way, people who hang around with certain players automatically start to form up squads, which works for both commander and players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I support this, or something like this.
In my personal opinion, of the ideas thrown about in this thread a few stand out as the one i'd like to see the direction of the alien commander experience go.
The Commander plays as the infestation. ( I already try to do this when im Kharmander ) But it's could be much more fun.
Removing drifters from building structures other than res towers and hives.
I would feel more like i'm tending a garden if a structure just grew out of infestation or I upgraded a cyst into a structure, The Micromanagment of building a drifter then guiding it from a hive to a location just to build a structure is long winded and this mechanic detaches you from the organic feeling of the infestation.
The Marine commander isn't pulled away back to base to build structures other than Arcs and Macs. This is what makes his experience feel like it flows flawlessly.
For the Kharmader it's like Marine commander having to build a mac everytime he wan't to place a structure, It's a over complicated feature thats not necessary.
What about commanding by gorge without entering to hive. Just point place and let drifter went there to build etc..
Sorry but still Im against this alien commander.
I would feel more like i'm tending a garden if a structure just grew out of infestation or I upgraded a cyst into a structure, The Micromanagment of building a drifter then guiding it from a hive to a location just to build a structure is long winded and this mechanic detaches you from the organic feeling of the infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea. As long as the infestation is connected, you should be able to build on infestation directly. The drifter is needless in this case. The drifter makes sense when placing a new hive, since you are essentially establishing a new hub. And if you don't want to make the drifters all but obsolete, make them the "vehicle" for alien commander abilities outside of the infestation network.
Also, I'm not convinced about disconnected cysts' infestation dying on its own, I think it should just sleep (all structures on it are disabled (inc. loss of kham vision), but don't take damage). When the (disconnected) cyst "supporting" the structures go down and the infestation recedes, only then should the structures take damage. This allows marine players to cripple a patch of infestation by striking at a deeper cyst, but not completely annihilate all the structures further out.
A similar reasoning should apply to the marine power node. The power node is an artificial weak point, so it should only confer a temporary advantage, not win the game. Its destruction should disable all structures except the CC and the IPs (since the IPs are linked to, and therefore powered by, the CC). It gives marines some opportunity to fight back at home.
For the alien, it could take a more 3rd-person approach possibly and actually DO the gardening. That is, carrying around buildings ("saplings"?) and plant em into the infestation. I think this sort of dynamic would work great since you didn't want the alien comm to do any real unit commanding to begin with. Plus, I found it kind of weird how the "commanding" unit chills outside the hive sac like a wannabe marine commander in a sweet bunk.
I kind of picture a Zerg queen with special abilities - spawn creep tumors, can attack, heal, etc., but also with the ability to "plant" living buildings. The commander evolves accordingly to the upgrade path chosen and # of hives.
Maybe. :P
(I'd love to elaborate, but before I bore the ears off of others and invest more time than will be read I'll wait for feedback.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. So much this. You could even control your 3rd person commander unit (hive queen) with the top down camera, but maybe its camera is locked directly above the unit?
Basically I think we should explore Meej's idea more.
In addition to Flare, it would be great if the Khammander can sacrifice Drifters to cast Umbra, Fury, and Cloak (possibly only with a 2/3 hive upgrade). Perhaps Drifters could also benefit from upgrades such as Camouflage and Carapace after they're unlocked.
As for Pheromones, I think Charlie's design is going to turn out fine.
yeah, but if score means res per kill, or something else that's practically benificial (the way frenzy healing you is, without being "on the scoreboard")...then that's a good way to go with the same idea
A couple "pheromones" for location tagging would be fine (maybe shift-click, alt-click, control-click and regular click be different colors?) It just creates a reference point that can be referred to during normal talking and text. Having a distinct "attack" order to prioritize a marine or structure target would make sense too.
But maybe what is even more important is to just give more info to aliens in general. Aliens could see important structures and each other through hive sight. Careful design would be needed to make sure the visuals don't get too spammy, but I bet it's doable (making farther away things be more transparent, more important things are larger, etc). Maybe hive sight could be toggle able for combat.
As much of these "hive sight" or "pheromone" things should be automatic if possible. I like the idea of aliens seeing a "ghost" version of things alien comm is about to build. Maybe the alien comm could shift-click while building a structure (even without the res) to show where he plans to place the structure via the ghost, but not actually build there yet.
Maybe marines should show up on hive sight whenever they attack or are seen by other aliens. After they stop firing and are no longer seen, a frozen "ghost" silhouette could remain in place in the hive sight for a time, and slowly fade away (maybe 20 seconds). This gives all the aliens time to see the previous position of marines when they were last spotted.
Marine health/armour could be visible to aliens, so commander doesn't have to inform an alien which marine was attacked most in the last engagement that the alien didn't witness.
So basically, think about what information a comm needs to give the troops, and figure out a way to give as much as possible of that info to the alien troops automatically.
1) enemy and structure positions (spotted marine structures stay on hivesight?)
2) Marines who were hurt most in the last engagement
3) Where structures are going (the game supreme commander allowed you to place a lot of ghost structures ahead of actually having res for them)
-- maybe alien commander could build ghosts buildings&cysts wherever he wants, and click on them with a "buy" button when he has enough res and infestation?
4) Where the other players on the alien team are,what they are doing, and their condition.
In addition to Flare, it would be great if the Khammander can sacrifice Drifters to cast Umbra, Fury, and Cloak (possibly only with a 2/3 hive upgrade). Perhaps Drifters could also benefit from upgrades such as Camouflage and Carapace after they're unlocked.
As for Pheromones, I think Charlie's design is going to turn out fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Change the name of drifter to Hive Shadow (Lexx tv show!?!) or something else elite and you know what I'm getting at. A "slightly" powerfull alien drone thingy under the command of his divine shadow er com.
Had this discussion in a thread in General, but I think the Kham shouldn't need to build drifters for any building that requires infestation to build on. That is, drifters should only be used to build hives and harvesters - any other structures should be able to be placed on, and grow from, (CONNECTED) infestation directly.
Except that the drifter becomes all but obsolete.
So I think that the drifter should be the vehicle for the Kham's various abilities outside of the infestation network.
I also think that the drifter should be required to form a cyst, but can, of course, be generated by a cyst. This allows you to generate a drifter right at the front lines for quicker major expansions (hives/RTs), but also somewhat slows down minor expansions (increasing the cyst chain). It also makes more sense than cysts magically appearing out of nowhere. <strike>Naturally, generating a drifter should use some sort of resource, possibly hive energy or P.Res. The cost of a cyst for the Kham can be removed, since it should be inherent in the cost of the drifter.</strike> OR simply have a stacking* cooldown on generating drifters, and a maximum number of drifters per hive, and have the cyst keep the cost. This makes the loss of drifters less crippling to the alien team.
*Basically what this means is, you can have up to X number of drifters per hive, each drifter has a cooldown of Y seconds. If you generate one drifter, it takes Y seconds to cooldown the drifter-generation. However, you can generate two drifters at once, and it would take Y seconds to cooldown the first drifter-generation, then another Y seconds. You could technically generate X number of drifters, but it would take a total of X*Y drifters to cooldown all of the drifter-generation. Of course, you can only have X number of drifters per hive in the field at once.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
@internetexplorer: We've already discussed this, but generating resources out of nowhere is a very [...] very bad idea and will not only unbalance the game, but lead to the Kham placing useless orders to buff their team.
Now, if we had a different resource system:
<!--quoteo(post=1894824:date=Jan 16 2012, 02:27 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 16 2012, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another downside you haven't mentioned with the NS1 system is that it was necessarily balanced for only one team-size: 6v6.
It was also disadvantageous for the alien team especially, since they often couldn't reach the required "floor" of the price. And this was especially dependent on team size.
e.g. if an "item" costs 10 res: you have 8 res, someone else might have 8 res, someone else might have 9 res; none of you can get the "item".
Also, NS2's system (for both teams) is significantly different from the NS1 alien evolution system. This is in part because of what is described above. More importantly, however, personal resources <b>scale with the team size</b>. 60/(number of players) res in NS1 is worth 60 personal res in NS2.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Frankly, the ideal system would be for both teams to each have one resource pool, in which each team could somehow specify who gets what. Basically you build on the NS1 marine resource model. AND that somehow resources scaled with team sizes, so that everyone gets an opportunity.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
There are a few ways to approach this, with their own advantages and disadvantages:
- Commander kind of decides who gets what; obviously leads to the problems you mentioned above, i.e. exclusivity.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->- Players get "credit" - every item has a credit AND a resource cost, credit is personal and resource is part of the team pool; it does lead to the problem of a "first come first serve" situation, including the commander not having enough res for an upgrade because some player just purchased a shotgun.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- A combination of the above; commander "builds" x number of y unit, players with enough credit can purchase it; still "first come first serve" but only for the players not the commander.
A couple ways to approach resource scaling with team size:
- The most natural is having significant TRFK (team res from kill). The idea is that more players in the game = more targets (sources of TR) AND more hunters (collectors of TR). Ideally, RFT (res from tower) = average res required for base building and team upgrades; and RFK (res from kill) = average res required for individual support (medpacks, ammopacks) and personal "items" (lifeforms, equipment). Can lead to a team-level slippery slope though.
- Teams get TRFT (team res from towers) directly proportional to the number of players they have. Not very natural, but less chance of leading to slippery slopes since it will be more dependent on how many resource nodes you hold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1895428:date=Jan 18 2012, 01:37 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 18 2012, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->"Spending power" is a great way to describe "credits".
I think that credits should be gained with the following types, in order of decreasing credit income:
1) Following orders, supporting players, etc.
2) Killing or damaging enemy players and structures (like it is with PRFK)
3) A minor trickle proportional to the number of towers you hold (like it is with PRFK)
1 doesn't cause balance issues with self-generated resources, since it is only 'spending power' and not actual 'resources'.
2 rewards players for doing well, but is less than 1 to encourage team-play over lonewolf-play.
3 just gives everyone a starting point or a base-line.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Naturally, in pubs without good communication and cooperation, there might be issues with someone spending res that the commander has been saving up. Perhaps there could be something like a reserve system - the commander could reserve and adjust a minimum amount of resources, for an upgrade or structure, or just permanently. Perhaps also allow the commander to stock weapons - which gives the commander more control when the team res is less than the reserve, and also field weapons when no one has enough credit.
With regard to the giveres system (assuming income scales with playercount, and is split between players), you could streamline it and make it a bit simpler: rather than giving an individual player whatever res, you could just give up res to a team pool. You would spend res, first out of what is in your personal pool, and then out of what is in the team pool. Of course, there could be "vultures" in pubs, but you know...
Pubs are basically outliers, though. We should build the game assuming a reasonable level of cooperation and communication (I'm hoping NS2 will at least have a matchmaking service), then add measures on top of that to discourage poor teamwork and griefing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you <b>could</b> reward players without unbalancing the game - since "credits" are a representational currency and are only really "spending power", but gaining credits doesn't affect the actual wealth of the team.
Actually I think the idea of placing "ghost" structures could serve a purpose here as well. Maybe the alien commander could "design" his garden in ghost form on his screen at first (even without the res or infestation spread). Make adjustments as desired, and then when he has infestation and res, choose what parts to build as time goes on. This would be helpful for planning, but also give the commander something to do even while he waits for res for more structures.
A key aspect of gardening is "weeding" or "pruning". Plants grow on their own, without your interaction and so you need to go back and check on them to make adjustments, make sure they are okay, etc. Think of sim city, where you build structures but they develop on their own, and require you to come back to adjust things to suit their needs as they grow.
Maybe alien structures could accrue "growth points" automatically over time, and when they have enough you must "visit" them to upgrade them in various ways. Ideas for upgrades could include: extra health, larger radius of effect, having to unlock their abilities, being able to uproot like whips, adding extra effects to their abilities (like put out fires, poison marines slightly, make area darker).
It's similar to upgrading with res, but could occur more often. And each "plant" has its own growth, so your not just waiting for a global "res" counter to fill up, you have to go around visiting your individual plants to see when they are ready for some "pruning". Maybe structures could all have a "sacrifice" ability to destroy themselves while causing a permanent improvement for structures nearby (like weeding). Example: defense chamber sacs to improve HP of nearby non-hive structures by 10% their starting amount. Hovering over the "sacrifice" button could display the health bonus above nearby structures on the screen.
I just think that in NS2 alien comm play is not terribly exciting and neither is Gorge play. So link the two roles somehow and create some intriguing choices the two classes can make together.
Also, I know it's your game but I'm not sure I agree with the Alien comm's role being "Gardener." I always thought that was the Gorge's role, tending to all the things the comm grows. He's like the comm's representative in the field. The Comm is more like the heart, the blood of a massive beast. That idea of a 'heartbeat' throughout creep, quieter the farther you are from hives, goes hand in hand with this interpretation. Not a loud beat but perhaps modifiable by player health, number of tumors, etc...
But yeah I think this is a great opportunity to create some interesting game play that might revitalize the alien Comm and gorge roles. The heartbeat idea is just cool, heh.
EDIT: Perhaps the heartbeat volume level could be modifiable by the preponderance of cysts in a particular area and the number of hives. At the start of the game you basically can't hear it but at 4 hives vs heavies it pumps. Killing a hive drops the decibal level as the blood shoots out of it. Anyway, the main con I can imagine for this idea is the annoyance factor of a constant heartbeat. I imagine it adding awesome drama to a team of marines moving towards a hive - if they kill off cysts as they move the heartbeat fades but if they decide to just go straight to the hive the beat gets louder and the drama rises. On the flips side, as an alien I'd kill myself if I had to hear a heartbeat all game every game. Anyway, just some thoughts
<!--quoteo(post=1895311:date=Jan 18 2012, 12:55 AM:name=Hudson633)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hudson633 @ Jan 18 2012, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-100% Resource production from that tower
+75% Damage resistance to MG/Shotgun
+50% Damage resistance to explosives
+25% Damage resistance to knife
Allows the commander to give an RT under attack more time to be rescued by aliens, pointless if no aliens are on the way since it stops the production. Ability can be turned on/off with a single click. The structure could lower itself, as if it was trying to get into the fetal position, so the marines can see it's in defense mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Web 2.0!
Also, players can hop in and out of the hives, to drop structures etc as needed, making the alien comm a lot more fluid teamplay role than the marine comm. I really like this mechanic. Don't give too much more for the alien comm to do, or he will become trapped in the hive all day. Pheromones waypointing is good, but overall I like the balance between comming and actually supporting your teammates, rather than the all comming of the marines, it's a nice compromise and makes it slightly a-symetrical.
I'm not really a fan of hydra spam and such, but I think it's kinda strange that the alien commander is supposed to be the gardener, while the gorge can create all that beautifully infested enviroment.
So basicly what I want:
-Let the commander be able to zoom into a cyst and watch around like a stationary gorge.
-Use commander's personal res to shoot cysts and hydras at walls like the gorge.
-Zoom back into comm view
-The gorge stays the same
That would also give some room to improve the healer/ fight-supporter capabilities of the gorge and leave players the choice to garden or join fights as a gorge.
Alien comms can use a more strategic placement for cysts, since they can aim at walls and ceilings when watching through a cyst.
Spam would be limited due to the way personal res works and new commanders won't spend the team res on gardening.
This also adds diversity in how the alien territory looks.
Since the master-overview can place cysts around corners, there should be a healthy mix between floorcysts (further apart) and wall/ceilingcysts (in line of sight of eachother).
And for easy using the possesion-view: this camera should hover a few feet directly above the top of the model.
EDIT: and for balance reasons: the cysts placed in posession view can only be small cysts (they already have the advantage of being on walls)
Because you are the collective mind, you should be able to instantly jump to any hive or lifeforms. When following a lifeform you could affect them in different ways, and also use them to travel around quickly before you detach from them and move yourself. I think the gorge and Kham should have a special connection, so that you could help the team more potent while focusing on a gorge. Maybe creating hives should need a nearby gorge or infestation?
I have taken many ideas from all the posts I have read here. I think this would create a more fun and unique experience for the Kham, and it would be very useful to be able to see what your team see yourself. Such is the way if the hive-mind :)
I'm sorry for all spelling errors in the two posts, typing on my phone. Will correct them once I'm on my comp.
In addition to Flare, it would be great if the Khammander can sacrifice Drifters to cast Umbra, Fury, and Cloak (possibly only with a 2/3 hive upgrade). Perhaps Drifters could also benefit from upgrades such as Camouflage and Carapace after they're unlocked.
As for Pheromones, I think Charlie's design is going to turn out fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
would be interresting to utilize drifters more, but that would make dropping crags/whips directly be totally out of fashion (drifter costs only energy)! "Khammander" should btw become official and displayed in the score board :P
Wrong area.
Yes! Yes! The idea of the Alien commander painting colourful clouds onto the environment, showing Aliens where the action is, where the key strategic points are... My mind is full of explosions of wow.
Perhaps...
The Frontiersman commander treats the map as a battlefield. Waypoints, orders, squads, chokepoints.
The Kharaa commander treats the map as a canvas. Pheromones, .... and all the cool stuff in this thread!
I love it. We are humans, so we think like humans. So the Frontiersman commander feels natural. But we need to think like animals and invent new stuff that no one has ever seen in an RTS before!
I thought neither were the baddies, but you make out the rines to be baddies
I thought neither were the baddies, but you make out the rines to be baddies<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We need too little about the backstory of the universe.
I would like to have more backstory woven into the map-design, props, etc.
I thought neither were the baddies, but you make out the rines to be baddies<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If your garden tried to kill you and assimilate your house/block/planet for the hive, I think you'd try and stomp it out too. Both sides just want to live in peace by murdering the other.
this happened in batman... I fell for her..
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