I say you should just FORMAT!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TychoCelchuuu+Mar 17 2004, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Mar 17 2004, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't you have to pay for CZ? Or does it just install itself, bill you, then sue you when you don't pay all automatically? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It automatically starts precaching CZ so that if you order it, you can play it right away on release day.
And thats the way we all will happily play condition zero and pay happily for it and give valuable hard drive space for it. HD space still costs. 100G~70?, around 500MB=3,50?. So were (temporarily, some of us) giving 3.50? (threefifty, wasnt that in Southpark? God damn lochness monster!") to valve only because they dont even ask about should we want to pre-cache condition zero or dont we? Its fine with me, that system is great now in the way it is supposed to. You already have the games in your machine and you dont have to wait to buy it. But the dark side is, it needs special trickery to get that seed of un-naturalish selection away from my computer!
this was my idea, he stoled it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Weird, cause when I clicked "Stop Pre-loading" it did what I asked and stayed that way <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Jeez, just when you think Valve can't get any stupider, they actually make everyone to download the game regardless of whether they bought it or not. I'm gonna laugh when they do this with HL2 and some illustrious hax0r unlocks it and bam, valve just gave everyone a free copy of hl2...
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--QuoteBegin-CForrester+Mar 17 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Mar 17 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only an idiot would hack a game that you have to use through a program that connects to VALVe servers and communicates with them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Kill the connection?
seconded, plus that means you probably have most of the game stored on your computer already.. you probably could buy it, figure out what parts "Valve" sends you, find a way to crack that and put it into your .exe, or maybe make another instance of it so that it runs already (I'm not sure how steam works on this, so I wouldn't know).
But other than that, good for them, they finally released CS:CZ.. and years before TFC 2, I'm impressed!
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Unless it downloads the media, but not the actual final core files... after all, it says 'play your favorite games in minutes'. May keep some files/chunk of the hash until you actually pay for it. Sure, people could toss around the full hash or a diff, but that's even more to download. As well, if they only handed you code for THAT computer, you couldn't even toss a diff around. There are ways beyond CPUID to lock software to a particular hardware arrangement, and if they're handing you the code anyway, they can dynamically generate the hash-segment interlocking with your system. And if you change stuff out, it'd just redownload the new authentication chunk when your Steam login was shown to be good and authorized to play it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All of this is speculation however. I'm just waiting to see how they *actually* pull it off.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Mar 17 2004, 10:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Mar 17 2004, 10:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless it downloads the media, but not the actual final core files... after all, it says 'play your favorite games in minutes'. May keep some files/chunk of the hash until you actually pay for it. Sure, people could toss around the full hash or a diff, but that's even more to download. As well, if they only handed you code for THAT computer, you couldn't even toss a diff around. There are ways beyond CPUID to lock software to a particular hardware arrangement, and if they're handing you the code anyway, they can dynamically generate the hash-segment interlocking with your system. And if you change stuff out, it'd just redownload the new authentication chunk when your Steam login was shown to be good and authorized to play it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All of this is speculation however. I'm just waiting to see how they *actually* pull it off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *drool*
Gotta give them props for trying though, right? (Whatever their attempt at stopping the piracy is, even if it forces everyone to have broadband and an hour to spare in order to play a game, I mean, you don't have to play a game, so there is no reason for them to not do this.)
I've been looking into how to do this, and I'm betting they have at least 1 team/supergenius dedicated to getting that sort of thing working... it's a spicy meatball!
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Mar 18 2004, 12:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Mar 18 2004, 12:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jeez, just when you think Valve can't get any stupider, they actually make everyone to download the game regardless of whether they bought it or not. I'm gonna laugh when they do this with HL2 and some illustrious hax0r unlocks it and bam, valve just gave everyone a free copy of hl2... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We can only hope <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Two experiences with Steam:
1) I also clicked "Stop Pre-loading" and CZ does not exist in any form on my hard drive, nor has it attempted to re-download itself since I stopped it.
2) When I was playing through Opposing Force on Steam, every new sound effect (e.g. unique NPC speeches) would twitch for a second the first time it played. On a hunch, I alt-tabbed and opened the Steam Monitor window on my 2nd monitor (which remains on my desktop when I'm playing HL on my primary monitor). The next time I encountered a new sound, sure enough I saw a transmission spike on the Monitor. The same thing happened whenever I entered a new BSP - a spike of downloading content.
Conclusion: Steam acquires engine files before playing, but content files were downloaded as needed from the server on the fly. Now that games can be played offline, I imagine there will be an option to fully pre-cache a game. However, I'll bet that the pre-caching (e.g. CZ's pre-loading) is *not* the full content, but the stripped down, active-connection-required version. Once you pay for it, they'll likely include the option to download all content.
Translation: you probably can't warez CZ or HL2 from the precache. That's my guess, anyway.
yeah, I doubt Valve would be narrow-minded enough to make it so that the game was feasably hackable... if anyone's considered the dangers of pre-caching I'm sure it's them.
anyway, I wish they'd get their thumbs out their bums and fix the fact that steam is crashing most of our systems every time we exit HL now >:o
I sent an eMail to VALVe asking about it, this is the reply:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That thread explains how to stop downloading, not extract data.
The data for unreleased games is encrypted. The encryption keys are Only released once the game is released.
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Forrester [mailto:chris-f @ sympatico . ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:53 AM To: Steam Support Subject: Wondering about CZ cache protection
In a thread on the Natural Selection forums, we were discussing how VALVe would be protecting their precached, unreleased games so as to prevent leakage. Would you care to shed some light on the subject?
The post is located here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66080' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=66080</a>
Suppose it's the same kind of encryption they were protecting the HL2 videos in the Steam beta with? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Face it Valve, you made an awesome game 5 years ago, but now you are terminally lacking in the common sense department. Next time you have a "great idea" for steam, run it by an 8-year-old first. If they can spot the flaw in your logic, maybe it isn't a great idea.
I don't get it... am I the only one who managed to cancel the preload? In fact, I don't even think I was downloading- it started out on 72%, yet I could play online with no additional lag and the Monitor claimed that no games were updating <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I presume the 72% is either a bug or because it uses CS content. But seriously, I cancelled, retried (just to see what kind of time it could take), cancelled again, and that is that.
When I retried it crashed, but on a restart it leapt up to 72% again- didn't seem to progress at all so I cancelled it. I don't get what the hell is with Steam these days anyway...
I managed to stop it before it even started (after I reinstalled Steam, damn HD blew out) and I haven't had any problems at all, so no, you're not alone. I've also reconnected and I haven't redownloaded CZ yet, so I think I'm good for now.
If those encryptions keys are Valve's only defense though, they are sure to get hacked, it's only a matter of time.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nil_IQ+Mar 18 2004, 05:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil_IQ @ Mar 18 2004, 05:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Face it Valve, you made an awesome game 5 years ago, but now you are terminally lacking in the common sense department. Next time you have a "great idea" for steam, run it by an 8-year-old first. If they can spot the flaw in your logic, maybe it isn't a great idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Steam's a good idea, but bad execution. And VALVe's buisy with a lot of stuff, leave 'em alone. They <b>ARE</b> just people.
Also, I can vouch for the encryptions. I tried warezing it to some extent. The files are all named fine and the folder tree is fine, but all the files themselves are filled with weird Asian characters.
I give it a week. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
About four hours later, it had preloaded the entire thing. So I deleted it, hit 'stop preloading'. It caught it a little later about half down preloading. Seemed to be evrey time I closed steam it wanted to preload it again.
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoZombie+Mar 18 2004, 03:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Mar 18 2004, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah, I doubt Valve would be narrow-minded enough to make it so that the game was feasably hackable... if anyone's considered the dangers of pre-caching I'm sure it's them.
anyway, I wish they'd get their thumbs out their bums and fix the fact that steam is crashing most of our systems every time we exit HL now >:o <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait, that's everybody? Thank god, I thought it was just me. Half the time, it happens during map changes as well. For some reason, hl.exe just hoses hell out of my CPU, and I have to kill the process to make it move again. It's annoying. What's the deal with that?
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Mar 19 2004, 02:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Mar 19 2004, 02:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, I hit 'cancel pre-load' and it stopped.
About four hours later, it had preloaded the entire thing. So I deleted it, hit 'stop preloading'. It caught it a little later about half down preloading. Seemed to be evrey time I closed steam it wanted to preload it again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Note: My tech knowledge is crapulous, so this is just my guess.
That's probably got less to do with the preloading itself, and more to do with the fact that Steam has this weird tendency to jerk things back to default when you shut it off, especially if you shut it off because of an error. That's why people kept getting their connection speeds reset to 14.4 after the last update.
Comments
uranub will get some thanking next time I see him
Halle-freaking-luiah.
Oh wait, was that in response to the FORMAT?
<- Weak of mind.
It automatically starts precaching CZ so that if you order it, you can play it right away on release day.
Its fine with me, that system is great now in the way it is supposed to. You already have the games in your machine and you dont have to wait to buy it. But the dark side is, it needs special trickery to get that seed of un-naturalish selection away from my computer!
Kill the connection?
But other than that, good for them, they finally released CS:CZ.. and years before TFC 2, I'm impressed!
As well, if they only handed you code for THAT computer, you couldn't even toss a diff around. There are ways beyond CPUID to lock software to a particular hardware arrangement, and if they're handing you the code anyway, they can dynamically generate the hash-segment interlocking with your system. And if you change stuff out, it'd just redownload the new authentication chunk when your Steam login was shown to be good and authorized to play it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All of this is speculation however. I'm just waiting to see how they *actually* pull it off.
As well, if they only handed you code for THAT computer, you couldn't even toss a diff around. There are ways beyond CPUID to lock software to a particular hardware arrangement, and if they're handing you the code anyway, they can dynamically generate the hash-segment interlocking with your system. And if you change stuff out, it'd just redownload the new authentication chunk when your Steam login was shown to be good and authorized to play it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All of this is speculation however. I'm just waiting to see how they *actually* pull it off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*drool*
Gotta give them props for trying though, right? (Whatever their attempt at stopping the piracy is, even if it forces everyone to have broadband and an hour to spare in order to play a game, I mean, you don't have to play a game, so there is no reason for them to not do this.)
I've been looking into how to do this, and I'm betting they have at least 1 team/supergenius dedicated to getting that sort of thing working... it's a spicy meatball!
We can only hope <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) I also clicked "Stop Pre-loading" and CZ does not exist in any form on my hard drive, nor has it attempted to re-download itself since I stopped it.
2) When I was playing through Opposing Force on Steam, every new sound effect (e.g. unique NPC speeches) would twitch for a second the first time it played. On a hunch, I alt-tabbed and opened the Steam Monitor window on my 2nd monitor (which remains on my desktop when I'm playing HL on my primary monitor). The next time I encountered a new sound, sure enough I saw a transmission spike on the Monitor. The same thing happened whenever I entered a new BSP - a spike of downloading content.
Conclusion: Steam acquires engine files before playing, but content files were downloaded as needed from the server on the fly. Now that games can be played offline, I imagine there will be an option to fully pre-cache a game. However, I'll bet that the pre-caching (e.g. CZ's pre-loading) is *not* the full content, but the stripped down, active-connection-required version. Once you pay for it, they'll likely include the option to download all content.
Translation: you probably can't warez CZ or HL2 from the precache. That's my guess, anyway.
anyway, I wish they'd get their thumbs out their bums and fix the fact that steam is crashing most of our systems every time we exit HL now >:o
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That thread explains how to stop downloading, not extract data.
The data for unreleased games is encrypted. The encryption keys are
Only released once the game is released.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Forrester [mailto:chris-f @ sympatico . ca]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:53 AM
To: Steam Support
Subject: Wondering about CZ cache protection
In a thread on the Natural Selection forums, we were discussing how
VALVe would be protecting their precached, unreleased games so as to
prevent leakage. Would you care to shed some light on the subject?
The post is located here:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66080' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=66080</a>
Thanks!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Suppose it's the same kind of encryption they were protecting the HL2 videos in the Steam beta with? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I presume the 72% is either a bug or because it uses CS content. But seriously, I cancelled, retried (just to see what kind of time it could take), cancelled again, and that is that.
When I retried it crashed, but on a restart it leapt up to 72% again- didn't seem to progress at all so I cancelled it. I don't get what the hell is with Steam these days anyway...
If those encryptions keys are Valve's only defense though, they are sure to get hacked, it's only a matter of time.
Steam's a good idea, but bad execution. And VALVe's buisy with a lot of stuff, leave 'em alone. They <b>ARE</b> just people.
Also, I can vouch for the encryptions. I tried warezing it to some extent. The files are all named fine and the folder tree is fine, but all the files themselves are filled with weird Asian characters.
I give it a week. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
About four hours later, it had preloaded the entire thing. So I deleted it, hit 'stop preloading'. It caught it a little later about half down preloading. Seemed to be evrey time I closed steam it wanted to preload it again.
anyway, I wish they'd get their thumbs out their bums and fix the fact that steam is crashing most of our systems every time we exit HL now >:o <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait, that's everybody? Thank god, I thought it was just me. Half the time, it happens during map changes as well. For some reason, hl.exe just hoses hell out of my CPU, and I have to kill the process to make it move again. It's annoying. What's the deal with that?
About four hours later, it had preloaded the entire thing. So I deleted it, hit 'stop preloading'. It caught it a little later about half down preloading. Seemed to be evrey time I closed steam it wanted to preload it again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note: My tech knowledge is crapulous, so this is just my guess.
That's probably got less to do with the preloading itself, and more to do with the fact that Steam has this weird tendency to jerk things back to default when you shut it off, especially if you shut it off because of an error. That's why people kept getting their connection speeds reset to 14.4 after the last update.