Well I Finally Did It, I Finished Evangelion
<div class="IPBDescription">My brain is thougroughly haxed</div> *edit* Uh, SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER, THIS IS A SPOILER ALERT. Probably should have put this in originally... *edit*
I've just watched the Evangelion movie, thus completing the first anime series I have seen all the way through. That movie blew my mind, pretty much literally.
I still don't know if it was good or not, because my brain is still trying to comprehend what it is I just saw. The fact that I saw it in badly done fansubs probably didn't help much.
Alright, this WAS a good movie, but.... seriously.... it haxed my brain. If you haven't watched it you won't know what i'm talking about but seriously... you couldn't fault it for a lack of depth. I've seen oceans not as deep as this was, and as a result most of it went right over my head.
From what I can piece together the plot went:
- Seele attacked NERV HQ, for some reason, really cool fight scenes ensue
- Commander Ikari's aim was the third impact, and the unification of all life, so I guess he succeeded
- Humanity made the EVA series to replace god, yet for some reason didn't seem to mind the whole world ending thing
- My brain is being increasingly haxed as i try to comprehend what I just saw
- The world ended. I've never seen the world end before, but i'm pretty sure it would have looked something like that.
- Something happened right at the very end which I didn't get at all
- The end
Not to say that it was bad, just that I didn't get a lot of it, due to a combination of poor fansubs and poor intellegence.
And to think when I was on episode 8 I didn't see what that guy (sorry, I forget who it was) meant when he said that Evangelion was "brain intensive". I feel like i've just had a full frontal lobotomy.
If anyone could help me comprehend what went on I would be greatful.
On another note, can anyone recommend the next series for my anime enjoyment? Something less brain Hax0ring, but possibly involving big mechas that blow stuff up. Thank you.
I've just watched the Evangelion movie, thus completing the first anime series I have seen all the way through. That movie blew my mind, pretty much literally.
I still don't know if it was good or not, because my brain is still trying to comprehend what it is I just saw. The fact that I saw it in badly done fansubs probably didn't help much.
Alright, this WAS a good movie, but.... seriously.... it haxed my brain. If you haven't watched it you won't know what i'm talking about but seriously... you couldn't fault it for a lack of depth. I've seen oceans not as deep as this was, and as a result most of it went right over my head.
From what I can piece together the plot went:
- Seele attacked NERV HQ, for some reason, really cool fight scenes ensue
- Commander Ikari's aim was the third impact, and the unification of all life, so I guess he succeeded
- Humanity made the EVA series to replace god, yet for some reason didn't seem to mind the whole world ending thing
- My brain is being increasingly haxed as i try to comprehend what I just saw
- The world ended. I've never seen the world end before, but i'm pretty sure it would have looked something like that.
- Something happened right at the very end which I didn't get at all
- The end
Not to say that it was bad, just that I didn't get a lot of it, due to a combination of poor fansubs and poor intellegence.
And to think when I was on episode 8 I didn't see what that guy (sorry, I forget who it was) meant when he said that Evangelion was "brain intensive". I feel like i've just had a full frontal lobotomy.
If anyone could help me comprehend what went on I would be greatful.
On another note, can anyone recommend the next series for my anime enjoyment? Something less brain Hax0ring, but possibly involving big mechas that blow stuff up. Thank you.
Comments
By the way, by your description, I'm assuming you saw 'End of Evangelion', the second NGE movie. Did you also see the series and 'Death&Rebirth', the first movie?
My elaborations will come later.
Well I saw the series of course, and I realise that EOE was a replacement for the last 2 episodes (and boy did they need replacing), but I've never heard of "Death&Rebirth", guess i'll have to find that one sharpish.... and in english if possible.
Anyway, I haven't seen the movies in a while, so I won't try for a conciese interpretation, and instead supply a few elaborations and thesises:
One should always keep in mind that NGE has a number of distinctly different thematic layers, most prominently the overlying action/mystery/soap - story, below that the religious-philosophical plot, and below <i>that</i> the description of a depressive mind with commentary on modern Japanese society.
Your questions are mostly based on the first two layers, so I'll stick to them for now - just allow me to comment on your observations to provide hooks for further discussion:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Seele attacked NERV HQ, for some reason, really cool fight scenes ensue<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeles intention behind originally founding NERV and the EVA project was to bring the prophecies they had found to fullfillment, thus basically creating the grounds for the next evolutionary leap of humanity - this 'Human Perfection Project' is mentioned throughout the series.
Ikaris intentions, however, are of a different nature - he simply wants to find a way of getting his wife back. In the end, this conflict escalates over the use of the EVAs, which are still home to her soul, which is why Seele attacks NERV.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Commander Ikari's aim was the third impact, and the unification of all life, so I guess he succeeded<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I already mentioned, it wasn't necessarily his aim, although he was willing to risk it. His aim was to free the soul of his wife from the EVAs, which seemed only possible by the Third Impact. Note that throughout the series, Ikari has a very close relationship to Rei, the half-clone of his wife, or the scene on the cemetary. Ikari is obsessed with his wife.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Humanity made the EVA series to replace god, yet for some reason didn't seem to mind the whole world ending thing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'Humanity' is a little too big a word. The crew around NERV created the EVAs. Their purpose was, on the one hand, that of a weapon against the angels, whichs attack was inevitable after the Second Impact, and on the other hand to become tools in the Third Impact, in which they would basically dissolve the borders around every persons soul, thus allowing for the unification - thus making humanity godlike, which explains the units naming after the biblical Eva.
This process was to be controlled, so an end of the world wasn't really planned - only Ikaris 'meddling' led to the effects in EoE.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- My brain is being increasingly haxed as i try to comprehend what I just saw<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, that's quite understandeable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Something happened right at the very end which I didn't get at all<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're most certainly referring to the scene with the intermingling bodies. This decipicts the unification: There is no 'me' anymore, or at least, there doesn't has to be. We see Shinji (who is now, conversely, not only Shinji but the whole of humanity expressed in its aspect of Shinji) and Rei (who stands beyond humanity), with Rei explaining to Shinji(/humanity) that they can now stop being human. Shinji(/humanity) decides against this.
Instead, we see how various characters, now again individuals, manage to come to terms with themselves and their fellow humans - note especially the scenes around Ikari here.
The movie ends with Shinji and Asuka on the beach - both are again themselves, but it seems possible that they'll be capable of going on, which wasn't the case before the 'end of the world'.
I hope these very partitial explanations give some food for thought.
[edit]On the topic of suggestions, if you're still brave enough for something at least mildly intelectually challenging, I'd suggest Serial Experiments LAIN. It's much more stringent and (sorry) better told than NGE, yet still smart enough to keep ones interest. In my opinion one of the best animes of all time.[/edit]
If you are looking for other seires to watch, there are plenty. I highly suggest Berserk, it is my favorite series. The character developement is incredible; and while the story is not as complex as EVA's, it is just as interesting.
For mecha action on the lighter side... Full Metal Panic! is a hybrid of mecha action and... err... high school romance comedy. And Blue Gender, although not liked by everyone, is a really (and I really mean really) grim sci-fi anime about humanity's effort to survive an invasion of Earth by giant mutated insect creatures. It's, like, got a lot of, like, people dying 'n' stuff! And people shooting at giant mutated insect creatures with mechas!
I also highly recommend two other animes I've seen from GAINAX - FLCL (aka FuriKuri aka Fooly Cooly) and Abenobashi Magical Shopping District aka (Abenobashi Mahou Shotengai) - both are a kind of growing-up stories. And both are the utterly craziest animated things I've ever seen. Ever have a robot come outta your forehead?
<span style='color:white'>***Moved back.***</span>
Bascially the movie boils down to this: Humanity melts together, then shinji decides to be a poo-face and un-melt himself, thus effing up everything. The end.
And as for Lain, yes I did find it to be a better told story, and altogether more engrossing and deep. NGE really is (in my opinion) the worst anime I have seen done by Gainax. It was not especially funny when it tried to be, nor did it provide as realisticm, interesting (or likeable) characters as say, FLCL, or even Abenobashi.
[edit] Quanat is gonna kill us all.
But I really wouldnt recommend Lain. That has to be one of the worst animes ive ever seen next to .hack//sign. Im not a big fan of FLCL as well, but I can tolerate it. If you want a good gainax anime, try Mahoromatic. I hope I spelt that right. Not really for the kiddies though.
Other good animes out right now: Naruto and Full Metal Alchemist (my avatar)
The EVAs are alive, right? They're artificial creatures with armour plating, based on Adam. However, living beings need souls. Also, classically, once something loses its soul it either dies or goes insane.
My theory is that each EVA unit has the soul of someone in them. They don't all have the soul of Yui Ikari.
Unit 00 has the soul of... damnit, I've forgotten her first name. Ritsuko's mother. Dr Akagi. After she commited suicide (after strangling the first Rei) her soul inhabited Unit 00. Evidence: Unit 00 has tried to kill Rei and Gendo on at least two occasions. Note that Dr Akagi hated both of them. Remember that test when Unit 00 went mental and tried to punch Gendo through the glass barrier? It also ejected the entry plug into a sealed room, deliberately attempting to harm the pilot (Rei).
Unit 01 has the soul of Yui Ikari. Remember when Shinji achieved a 400% synch ratio, dissolved into LCL, and almost merged with his EVA? Remeber what they said when they were trying to put him back together: this had happened only once before, and they'd failed to recover the pilot. I believe that that "pilot" was Yui Ikari, who got inside the EVA (for whatever reason) and was lost to it. Note also how Unit 01 protects Shinji (beyond its normal abilities) on a number of occasions. It's the only EVA to do so. Also, in the 400% synch ratio incident Shinji saw his mother in the EVA. It was his mother that sent him back.
Unit 02 has the soul of Kyoto Zeppelin Soryu (I think that's right. Asuka's mother.). You remember that she was insane? My guess is that that was caused by some accident in the testing. She lost her soul to the EVA, but her body survived - the result was madness. We have confirmation of this in one of the movies (I'm not sure which one) when, hiding at the bottom of a lake, Asuka realises that her mother is inside the EVA, and she need fear nothing because her mother is protecting her.
As for the others, I don't know.
...
About Lain: I appreciated the style of it, but I disliked the series. It built up all this wonderful tension and foreshadowing, then ****ed it down the toilet. Also, anyone with a background in computers can easily recognise that the explanation about the Wired is nothing but technobabble, and is complete crap. Now, for everyone else, I guess it's highly enjoyable. I found it to be a waste of my time, and a major disappointment.
*evil chukle*
Strangely enough, I thought of it by mishearing a completely seperate explanation that one of my friends was trying to tell me.
I can't really say whether NGE is good or bad, since I haven't watched any other anime to judge it by, but I can safely say that it is probably better than 99.9% of whatever's on TV right now. Well, MOST of it is...
No, it wasn't particularly funny when it tried to be. I find it slightly bizarre that NGE went from being what could almost be called an action/comedy to something much darker. Was this the plan from the begining or were the animators just sick of finding excuses for people to slap Shinji?
I still have 5 remaining questions though (yes i've thought about this a lot);
1. What was Ikari trying to DO with Rei (no pun intended <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) that Seele didn't want him to? As far as I can tell he was trying to free Yui's soul from EVA 01, but Rei basically rejected him and sparked the third impact.
2. Why were the Seele troops ordered to kill Shinji? Didn't they need an EVA to start the 3rd impact? What good is the EVA without the pilot?
3. What did Fuyuski (sp?) mean when he said that the future was in Shinji's hands? Shinji didn't seem to have much choice in the matter as evidenced by the near constant screaming. Not that I blame him when the world is ending around him...
4. What WAS Kauro (sp?)? He was the 18th (or whatever, I can't remember how many there were) angel, as are all humans, since the Angels are just other posibilities for humanity. So why did Kauro have all those funky powers? My first guess is that he's simply "aware" of his powers, but I get the feeling it's more complicated than that
5. Finally, the most pressing theological question of them all......
Who the hell bandaged Asuka right at the end? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NGE Is serious brainhax. When I finished End of Evangelion, consciously, I understood everything I had just seen. My subconscious simply refused to accept it. I quite simply reached the credits, said "Well, that was depressing. I have to go to the bathroom." Then I took 10-15 steps out into the hallway, and collapsed on the floor groaning. Most of my Dormmates looked on in confusion, but Ku, who had seen it before, knew exactly what was going on. He did the exact same thing. Im looking forward to the directors cut version, to see how the TV series was supposed to end, maybe it wont be so depressing...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About Lain: I appreciated the style of it, but I disliked the series. It built up all this wonderful tension and foreshadowing, then ****ed it down the toilet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. What was Ikari trying to DO with Rei (no pun intended <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) that Seele didn't want him to? As far as I can tell he was trying to free Yui's soul from EVA 01, but Rei basically rejected him and sparked the third impact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rei was only half human - the other half was Lilith, and could be used to initiate the 3rd impact. Seele didnt want him having that kind of power.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Why were the Seele troops ordered to kill Shinji? Didn't they need an EVA to start the 3rd impact? What good is the EVA without the pilot?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seele isnt trying to start the 3rd impact, theyre trying to prevent it. Killing the pilot will do that pretty easilly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3. What did Fuyuski (sp?) mean when he said that the future was in Shinji's hands? Shinji didn't seem to have much choice in the matter as evidenced by the near constant screaming. Not that I blame him when the world is ending around him...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because at that point, Shinji was basically god. He could choose to accept or rejecy instrumanality.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4. What WAS Kauro (sp?)? He was the 18th (or whatever, I can't remember how many there were) angel, as are all humans, since the Angels are just other posibilities for humanity. So why did Kauro have all those funky powers? My first guess is that he's simply "aware" of his powers, but I get the feeling it's more complicated than that<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funky powers? Well, he could hum. None of the other angels did that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You mean controlling 02? Id imagine the others could do that too, they just never got close enough or it was being piloted.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. Finally, the most pressing theological question of them all......
Who the hell bandaged Asuka right at the end? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Christopher Walken.
You're basically right there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Why were the Seele troops ordered to kill Shinji? Didn't they need an EVA to start the 3rd impact? What good is the EVA without the pilot?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have their own pilots, they had a whole friggin school full of potentials. Or at the very least they could have used a dummy plug or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3. What did Fuyuski (sp?) mean when he said that the future was in Shinji's hands? Shinji didn't seem to have much choice in the matter as evidenced by the near constant screaming. Not that I blame him when the world is ending around him...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shinji had a lot of say in what went on, he could have done a great number of things to make the third impact not occur, or occur differently. The reason he was screaming a lot was simply that he is a complete wus, and can't deal with stuff when it gets shown to him.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4. What WAS Kauro (sp?)? He was the 18th (or whatever, I can't remember how many there were) angel, as are all humans, since the Angels are just other posibilities for humanity. So why did Kauro have all those funky powers? My first guess is that he's simply "aware" of his powers, but I get the feeling it's more complicated than that<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, he's the last angel, and some of those powers are his alone. As it was said though, all people have AT feilds set up around themselves, so that was not strictly the domain of the angels.
I'm still waiting for Quanat to come in here and pwn us all. And them come kill us all in the night for insulting NGE.
And BTW, peiceofsoap, you avatar is teh win! It makes me want to make another one of my infamous annoying anigif anime sigs....hmm....
Domo Arigato Gozaimasu, AllUrHive!
Pantsu Oni pwnage.
I have yet to see anything Gainax has done that has been even remotely "Normal"
Lessee, Ive seen: NGE, FLCL, Abenobashi Mahou Shotengai, and Orochuban Ebichu.
I wanna be a Pantsu Ninja...
Especially the kiddy drawings!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
What was Ikari trying to DO with Rei (no pun intended ) that Seele didn't want him to? As far as I can tell he was trying to free Yui's soul from EVA 01, but Rei basically rejected him and sparked the third impact.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe he was going to merge with Rei/Yui and become "god". However, Rei/Yui rejected him and chose to merge with Shinji. SEELE didn't want Ikari as god, nor Shinji, thats why they created the Kawaoru dummy plug system to imitate a human - allowing third impact but without a controlling human mind.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Why were the Seele troops ordered to kill Shinji? Didn't they need an EVA to start the 3rd impact? What good is the EVA without the pilot?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See above. They had their own EVAs which they planned to initiate third impact with. Thus NERV itself had become obsolete, and rather than run the risk of Gendo creating his own third impact, they sent in ground troops to neutralise the base, and provided their own EVA support should any of Gendo's EVAs get loose.
The above is also the reason why the Angels had to be PREVENTED from initiating third impact - as they would have (presumably) chose the destruction of all mankind.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
What did Fuyuski (sp?) mean when he said that the future was in Shinji's hands? Shinji didn't seem to have much choice in the matter as evidenced by the near constant screaming. Not that I blame him when the world is ending around him...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
According to the series ending, the future of man relied on Shinji. He could choose to destroy man entirely, for example - in fact he almost does this, stating that he wants everyone to die.
In the film, screaming would merely signify the physical outpouring of what happens in his mind (more accurately shown in the series).
Was anything actually happening between Shinji and Kaworu?!
Weggy, I was reffering to Kauro's powers compared to humans, not compared to other angels. I seem to remember it's said at some point that humans are the 18th angel, so, as I asked before, how come Kauro has the powers and Humans don't.
Oh and his flight was what I was refering to mainly, not his impressive humming prowess.
Hmm, I can see why Seele would want to stop Shinji becoming god, that is one f-ed up kid right there, "Nobody loves me everyone sucks, I suck, everyone can go die!!!!!111one".
And yes, I did think that Kauro acted kind of, well, lets face it, <i>extremely</i> ****, but I think this is due to the fact that he doesn't understand some of the "stigma" as he put it, in human society.
Also Necrosis, if you liked the original ending I think you need to seek profesional help <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*edit* Yes Soap, my brain was also haxed at the time. It's a truly wierd feeling that lasted for the rest of the next day. Probably similar to being stoned, although I prefer the term "brainh4x", or as my friend put it, "headf**k*". *edit*
My theory is that each EVA unit has the soul of someone in them. They don't all have the soul of Yui Ikari. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your explanation makes a whole lot of sense but poses one question: Why do the EVAs need pilots to generate AT fields, which are, as we already established, directely linked to the existence of a soul (there's an occasion in the series in which Rei removes herself from 00s system, thus shutting its AT field down)?
Maybe we should take the genetic aspect further: Each EVA is <i>based</i> on a human, but lacks a soul.
01 is an exception here - the occasion on which Yuri dissolves is visually decipicted in the manga, and clearly an accident. We should thus not generalize 'her' behaviour to all other EVAs. I'd argue they are indeed simply insane and need a person genetically and psychologically close to their human 'parents' (or Lilith, in the case of Rei) to be controlled.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About Lain: I appreciated the style of it, but I disliked the series. It built up all this wonderful tension and foreshadowing, then ****ed it down the toilet. Also, anyone with a background in computers can easily recognise that the explanation about the Wired is nothing but technobabble, and is complete crap. Now, for everyone else, I guess it's highly enjoyable. I found it to be a waste of my time, and a major disappointment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that the ending seemed superficial, and that it's not technologically accurate - but it isn't supposed to. Lain deals with sociological and philosophical questions (some taken from first generation 'cyberpunk' literature such as '1984'). The technological advance described in it is just a device for this.
My question is; why is a plug suit nessesary? On several occasions Shinji pilots one in his ordinary clothes. I think it's just so that they could put Rei and Asuka in tight clothing tbh... I guess the animators wanted a break from depth.
Shinji and Asuka weren't the new adam and eve- they were the end.
Shinji KILLED Asuka. That in the end was everything he wanted....her love, and power over her. He got that when he became a God.
If anyone noticed, the ocean they are by is a odd color- because it is in fact LCL.
Its understandable that it racked your brain, but one thing still remains:
Unless you KNOW what happened(as I do, being the expert of Evangelion, above everyone I've ever met, and beating Inf <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->...still waiting for that), its hard to grasp it. I'm not gonna explain now because I'm lazy, but I may one day later.
Just to say this: Congrats in seeing the whole thing, and if I were you, I'd watch just D&R and EoE over and over until you get it.
You'll see everything then.
And I'd point out that there's a definite development going on between the two murder fantasies and the scene on the beach, where Shinji does in fact show happiness over Asukas recovery - so basically, also considering her line, he gives up on his control over her.
"What is it to gain the world, when you lose your soul?"(which he did, by becoming the second coming of the Man in White, aka Jesus. Except, Jesus IN the "Angel of Death"...Ironic, when Jesus is supposed to grant us eternal life.
My theory is that each EVA unit has the soul of someone in them. They don't all have the soul of Yui Ikari. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your explanation makes a whole lot of sense but poses one question: Why do the EVAs need pilots to generate AT fields, which are, as we already established, directely linked to the existence of a soul (there's an occasion in the series in which Rei removes herself from 00s system, thus shutting its AT field down)?
Maybe we should take the genetic aspect further: Each EVA is <i>based</i> on a human, but lacks a soul.
01 is an exception here - the occasion on which Yuri dissolves is visually decipicted in the manga, and clearly an accident. We should thus not generalize 'her' behaviour to all other EVAs. I'd argue they are indeed simply insane and need a person genetically and psychologically close to their human 'parents' (or Lilith, in the case of Rei) to be controlled. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I haven't read the mangas (and, personally, I think of the manga of a series as being a seperate entity to the anime).
I don't think the EVAs <i>do</i> actually need pilots to generate AT fields. When Asuka was busting out of that lake at the end, she realised that it was her <i>mother</i> who was protecting her, because of the AT field. I think it's the EVA's own soul that generates the AT field (the soul being provided by whoever, as I've already brought up).
Actually, I don't think the pilots are technically necessary at all. They just need to be in there. Maybe the EVA's soul needs another soul to interact with. And the pilot is sort of necessary to direct the thing. But, as evidenced by the dummy plug project, you don't really need a pilot at all.
But that does make one wonder where the production models got souls from.
...
About the questions:
SEELE's Human Instrumentality project and 3rd Impact are the same thing. That's the whole conspiracy. Instrumentality is because of the belief that humans will never be able to be happy all as seperate entities, and thus it would be best if everyone were merged.
I don't understand the exact specifics, but there is still some difference between 3rd Impact and Instrumentality. There was something in particular which SEELE wanted to do which could not happen simply by letting the angels reach Adam.
All Gendo Ikari ever wanted was to get his wife back. Again, I don't understand exactly how. What I do know is that he never had any intention of carrying out SEELE's will. SEELE tried to gain the upper hand on a number of occasions. Kowaru was sent <i>by</i> SEELE to initiate Instrumentality\3rd Impact, but they made the mistake of confusing Lillith for Adam.
I think the business about the JDF attacking NERV was because SEELE realised that Gendo was completely out of their control, and got the government to attack. Rather than let Gendo bugger things up royally, they'd rather destroy the chance. That's why they were trying to kill the pilots - they wanted to prevent 3rd Impact, and SEELE would sort out the situation later.
Let us consider that Man is the final angel. Man, not "a man", but Man. We can compare it to the microscopic Angel which attacks - many individual cells, but one Angel.
I believe Man would be the same way - hence the smaaaall AT field each individual man has.
My concept of the "soul" in the EVAs is of a largely motiveless spirit. Hence they jam in a pilot who can give the EVA a motive. Kawauro could just appear to be their controller if none was actually present. Rei and Kawauro were both part Angel, both were being used for the dummy plug system, so its not entirely unbelievable to suggest that the reason they worked as dummy plugs was because they could fool the EVA into thinking its chosen pilot was present. Each EVA seemed pretty specifically keyed to each pilot - Shinji and his mother for instance.
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I did think that Kauro acted kind of, well, lets face it, extremely ****
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I think it was more out of love for humanity in general.
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Also Necrosis, if you liked the original ending I think you need to seek profesional help
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I think the original ending made a lot of sense. It was a shame it didn't explain what happened to NERV, but was a success from the point of view of explaining how one's brain copes with absolute freedom.
And after watching it I got that same floaty realisation, hehe.
If he was piloting without one it wouldn't be necessary would it? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I think there is a real explaination for it somewhere in the series. Maybe not. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Weggy, I was reffering to Kauro's powers compared to humans, not compared to other angels. I seem to remember it's said at some point that humans are the 18th angel, so, as I asked before, how come Kauro has the powers and Humans don't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He is an angel that has a human form. That's it. Plain and simple. An angel that looks like a human and it ends there. He is born of Adam and bla blah blah he says this explicitly that because the soul of Eva 02 is hiding itself and that it is also made of Adam, he can control it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Shinji KILLED Asuka. That in the end was everything he wanted....her love, and power over her. He got that when he became a God.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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The sequance is one of the most hotly debated in Eva circles all over the world. Until now there was no definitive answer to the mystery. However, this may be the absolute answer, held within the Eva Carddass Masters Trading Card Game.
...
"Shinji renounced the world where all hearts had melted into one and accepted each other unconditionally. His desire... to live with 'others' -- other hearts that would sometimes reject him, even deny him. That is why the first thing he did after coming to his senses was to place his hands around Asuka's neck. To feel the existence of an 'other'. To confirm (make sure of) rejection and denial."
The scene is meant to be an affirmation of Shinji's decision to return to reality.
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This is probably the only scene that never made sense no matter how many times I watch the series. Even if it makes sense to me now it still doesn't help because you still can't figure it out without outside sources. Lame!
There is no prior evidence that lead up to this scene. The only clue is the same strangulation scene that occurs during instrumentality. Someone told me, that during this prior scene Shinji does something he would've been able to do if it were real. You think Asuka would just let him do that? Yeah, not with her personality. So it all makes sense.
Gainix instead of redoing the scene places it in a card game. GG
Ok I'm spending too much time on this. I'll let you gusy continue with yourselves. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->