Very Hard Puzzle

Amped1Amped1 Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
edited February 2004 in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Driving Me Insane</div> Let's see if we can solve this before I lose my mind-

There are three houses and three pipe lines in our 2D town. One pipe is for sewage, another for water, and the last for electricity. Each of the three houses must be connected to all three pipe lines, but there is a catch; the pipes cannot cross over eachother, nor can they go from house to house. The correct answer will have nine total lines, three going to each different house.

I drew a picture to illustrate what's going on. If you manage to get the solution then I will award you a <i><b>golden star</b> </i> which is going to be my new trademark that I stole from the STF boards. (Sneaky me)

*Colors aren't working, why? I want my text to be yellow darnit!*
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Comments

  • Jean_Luc_PicardJean_Luc_Picard Join Date: 2003-02-03 Member: 13051Members
    Do the houses and pipes HAVE to be in a straight line?
  • Amped1Amped1 Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
    edited February 2004
    No. You can have them anywhere, but that doesn't change anything. There always seems to be one line that won't connect...grrrr.

    Edit - I need a hosting site so I can put up the gorgies of my signature.
  • GrillkohleGrillkohle Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24695Members, Constellation
    edited February 2004
    Man, this is hard. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Im starting to doubt that there is a way, because one of the sources always gets cut off by a pipe from the third house it needs to connect to.
  • Amped1Amped1 Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
    The guy who showed it to me said he'd been trying to solve it for 4 years...man I gotta solve this thing...
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    It is in fact impossible, on a 2d plane.
  • Umbraed_MonkeyUmbraed_Monkey Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9922Members
    edited February 2004
    Its proven impossible, stop trying. Really.

    Edit: dahm j00 Necrosis, we posted on the same minute.
  • EmseeEmsee Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16644Members, Constellation
    It's impossible unless you allowed to go "under" a house as below.
  • FireStormFireStorm Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7390Members
    I know this puzzle. there's no solution: it's impossible.
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    edited February 2004
    This has been posted in many forums and in schools etc lol. Its a forum classic lol.

    The worlds scientific community have all determined that solving this puzzle is impossible to do on a 2 demensional plain. Professiors, engineers, Dr.s etc.

    As some people have already stated here. You cant do it on MS Paint or with pen and paper so Stop trying. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    If you search for it you can even find the mathmatical solutions that prove it impossible on a 2D plain blablabla.


    If you want to go ahead and model it in a 3d area go for it then its easy.
    but just drawingit out is impossible for Real.
    YOU CANT DO IT ON A 2D PLAIN!!!
  • Jean_Luc_PicardJean_Luc_Picard Join Date: 2003-02-03 Member: 13051Members
    *inserts teleporters in each house* there... now there's no need for pipes <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • NumbersNotFoundNumbersNotFound Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7556Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Jean Luc Picard+Feb 21 2004, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jean Luc Picard @ Feb 21 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *inserts teleporters in each house* there... now there's no need for pipes <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What message boards do you think you're on, boy? That better be edited to "phase gates" in 10 seconds or else.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    edited February 2004
    But he's Jean Luc Picard. Which means he should edit it to "transporters".
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    can u link the sources up? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Bill_DoorBill_Door Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11792Members
    I'd prefer phase gates, they seem more reliable.
    I would like to have water and sewers during thunderstorms after all.
  • BogglesteinskyBogglesteinsky Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11488Members
    unless you are allowed to go under a house, the puzzle is impossible.

    I just feel sorry for the poor b*****d who has been trying to solve it for 4 years

    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->:D:D
  • X_IlluminatiX_Illuminati Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22295Members, Constellation
    The trick is to prove that this is a non-planar graph (a graph that can not be drawn in the plane without edges crossing).

    This problem is an example of a K(3,3) graph (the complete bipartite graph with 3 vertices in each set) and it is the simplest non-planar graph (along with K(5)).
    All non-planar graphs are extensions of these 2 graphs, which can easily be demonstrated to be non-planar (and are provable non-planar with a bit of work).

    Further reference:
    <a href='http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PlanarGraph.html' target='_blank'>http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PlanarGraph.html</a>
    <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_graph' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_graph</a>
    <a href='http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=946456' target='_blank'>http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=946456</a>
  • Umbraed_MonkeyUmbraed_Monkey Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9922Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Bill Door+Feb 21 2004, 02:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bill Door @ Feb 21 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd prefer phase gates, they seem more reliable.
    I would like to have water and sewers during thunderstorms after all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    and it should be 1.0x phasegates. Back then, phase gates take much more punishment before croaking. On the other hand, the way that it used to work, accidents seem to happen more often...
  • Bill_DoorBill_Door Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11792Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-X-Illuminati+Feb 21 2004, 08:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X-Illuminati @ Feb 21 2004, 08:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The trick is to prove that this is a non-planar graph (a graph that can not be drawn in the plane without edges crossing).

    This problem is an example of a K(3,3) graph (the complete bipartite graph with 3 vertices in each set) and it is the simplest non-planar graph (along with K(5)).
    All non-planar graphs are extensions of these 2 graphs, which can easily be demonstrated to be non-planar (and are provable non-planar with a bit of work).

    Further reference:
    <a href='http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PlanarGraph.html' target='_blank'>http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PlanarGraph.html</a>
    <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_graph' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_graph</a>
    <a href='http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=946456' target='_blank'>http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=946456</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Gah! Decision/Discrete maths! possibly the most boring subject around.
  • Amped1Amped1 Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
    Well I guess both Necrosis and Cpl. Davis get to put the-
    <b>Gorges Recieved : 1</b>
    In their signature, if they want them. My reasoning behind this is that Necrosis replied first but Cpl. Davis gave the best worded answer in my opinion. Gorges are a symbol of smarts/wittiness, or at least I hope they will be. Heh, I'm glad I decided to post this on the forums. I would probably spend my entire life trying to do this. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • LikuLiku I, am the Somberlain. Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12128Members
    No one says not having a box in a circle.
  • Amped1Amped1 Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
    Gotta feel sorry for the fella that lives in the sewage line. But he did help us solve the puzzle, so three cheers for Sewage Man!
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    This is a logic problem, bending the rules to suit your needs. Liku solved it.

    And fyi, it's called a septic tank. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ConfuzorConfuzor Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2412Awaiting Authorization
    edited February 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Liku+Feb 21 2004, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Feb 21 2004, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one says not having a box in a circle. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the pipes cannot cross over eachother, nor can they go from house to house. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wouldn't that technically be going from "house to house"?
  • Har_Har_the_PirateHar_Har_the_Pirate Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19388Members, Constellation
    I'd prefer phase gates, they seem more reliable.
    I would like to have water and sewers during thunderstorms after all.

    /\/\/\/\/\\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/\/\/\\/


    that would suck if u accidently dropped your phase gate in the septic tank and the other end started spewing out upon u
  • RedfordRedford Monorailcatfjord Join Date: 2002-04-28 Member: 528Members, NS1 Playtester
    if the world is indeed round, then the solution is as follows:

    <img src='http://members.cox.net/redford22/solution.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    Yes, those pipes are going completly around the world, but they follow the given rules. they are straight, and they do not cross at any point. Maybe not the most efficent setup, however!
  • SycophantSycophant Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7092Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are three houses and three pipe lines in our 2D town. One pipe is for sewage, another for water, and the last for electricity. Each of the three houses must be connected to all three pipe lines, but there is a catch; the pipes cannot cross over eachother, nor can they go from house to house. The correct answer will have nine total lines, three going to each different house.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    - three houses
    - nine pipes in total

    Doesn't say anything about not having more than one of a source. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <img src='http://www.cmallard.com/myfiles/answer.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    Although I guess the "three pipe lines" part might imply only three sources. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Amped1Amped1 Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
    Technically, redford solved it. A 2d plan that is curved is still a 2d plane right? So why can't it be curved into a full circle? Hmm.
  • VerthandiVerthandi Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10687Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited February 2004
    A 'plane', in the mathematical sense, is defined as a <b>flat</b> surface, such that a straight line joining any two points on it, lies wholly within the boundaries of the surface.

    A 'curved plane' is an oxymoron, so the above 'solution' is invalid.
  • OlmyOlmy Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16142Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Developer, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    but what if space time is curved in this scenario? Doesn't that mean even in a 2d realm you would eventually come back to where you started <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> I think my brain is on fire.
  • WhatsitWhatsit Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13454Members
    edited February 2004
    I can see two more potential solutions here:

    1) (top 3 pics) The problem doesn't say that all everything has to be connected at the same time. Connect one house to all three pipelines, then disconnect them before doing the same to the other houses.
    It's then left up to everyone's theories as to whether time is a dimension, and if it is, whether it invalidates the 'plane' restriction.

    2) (bottom pic) I suspect the problem is misworded, but the way it is now, only pipes cannot cross each other. So long as you don't use pipes to connect each house to the electricity pipeline, you can cross the electricity connectors over any pipes you wish.
    In fact as it's worded now, only the main pipelines (sewerage, water and electricity) need to be pipes; it says nothing about connecting houses to pipelines using other means, and as I said above, it's only pipes that cannot cross.

    - Whatsit


    <i>(edit: cleared up some ambiguous wording)</i>
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