Whenever I download music and enjoy it, I eventually go out to buy the CD. It helps the music industry if anything, I wouldn't have so many CD's if it wasn't for that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Venmoch+Feb 20 2004, 04:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Feb 20 2004, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now I never really was into the whole illegal music downloading thing. Sure I did it but now my entire music collection is legal.
The first point I would argue against though. Have you looked in places like HMV? HMV (Or at least the online componant) have New Releases at £9.99 and things like the current "3 for £20". Of course this isn't very useful if your looking for stuff thats a little harder to come by rather than the typically mainstream stuff. Half of it is just a case of looking around. Half the reason I've gone on a music spending spree is mainly having a CD is just that little bit nicer than having a group of files on my hard disk.
However I will agree on the other points you make. It is hard for many bands to achieve widespread exposure and the ones that do see to be either take ages to earn it or are manufactured. Of course the success storys go on to earn obsene amounts of money (I mean if you really want to see what I mean go and watch an episode of MTV Cribs) Problem is with these success storys comes a problem. The other not so successful artists don't get the exposure and thats the sad thing. The decent artists just don't get the exposure they deserve. The only reason I heard of Soil is through Kerrang and thats Cable TV. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ironically, I have very few mp3s. Most of my music is on CD.
HMV, Virgin and all the other high street music vendors all play the same game. They have permenent sales on offering mediocre mainstream stuff. Its only when trying to buy another slightly off centre do you get stung. I got murdered for a Jellyfish album from Virgin before I woke up to otehr retailers. Even so, I still think music is overpriced at £10 per album.
I'm fortunate because I have some friends that are into very different music, and I get exposure through that. That's how I discovered British Sea Power.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
There has got to be a forum somewhere specifically for discovering music that is off the beaten path. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it. There are some real gems out there, a few of which I've been able to find.
HMV can be good sometimes, however when you're looking for music like Pink Floyd they overprice it disgustingly - I went there the other day and they wanted <i>£30</i> for The Wall, then I went to a small independant cd shop (where I get most of my music <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->) and found it for a tenner <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
about time someone started suing them back, it will be interesting to see how it plays out <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> pretty obvious really <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't see why you people are so mad at the RIAA. We all know downloading music is illegal. I'm not preaching that everyone stops and tries to do good in the world, but if you get caught, suck it up. You knew the risk when you started downoading.
Age or sex or occupation doesn't matter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Acutally DOom is right conisdering that under the so called Patriot act the govt can
detain you without telling your family or anyone where you are, how long you will be detained for, and why you are being detained in the first place, search you, deport you, log information on books you buy or barrow, obtain DNA samples, and read your email and other stuff all without having to obtain a legal warrent to do so and without giving you proper legal counciling.
blablabla thats just the tip of the ice berg, go research it yourself
Now that people are starting to calm down after 9/11 and see what Tom Ashcrofts patriot act really does Several States have alraedy enacted several laws and acts to outright contradict it.
As well as many state governments simply ruling it as unconstitutional.
And about the RIAA.
Yes people should know what they are getting into but either unfortunatly or not (depending on which side you are on) anti piracy laws are just about as affective as Speed limit signs.
I bet 99% of everyone in this forum has drivin their car over the posted speed limit at some point in there life. Now should these anti piracy laws be enforced and violators be made fair game? Sure however anyone who seeks to take legal action against someone must do it legally themselves.
Police in America for example would get hammered if they used illegaly obtained evidence or any other technicallity.
You cant break the law to enforce it. Now Im not saying the RIAA has yet, ill wait until the court decides on that since they are the most informed about it.
you mean your supposed to go UNDER the speed limit or match it?...whoops...i thought you were supposed to go as FAST as you can so...well, that makes my turbo obsolete lol
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+Feb 20 2004, 01:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Feb 20 2004, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Piracy is illegal. If you break the law then there are consequences. Someone has to enforce these laws and that "someone" is the RIAA.
This matter will never go anywhere as it is subjective. Subjective matters never have one true/right answer and here this is the case.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The RIAA has no legal power other than demanding subpoenas be issued to people by the court, they can't do it themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Feb 20 2004, 07:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Feb 20 2004, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So the argument is that if the place/corporation is corrupt, it's OK to do something you know is illegal?
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> theres only one thing, if you dont like Best Buy's prices, you can always go to a different store. If you dont like the RIAA's prices, WTH u gonna do? go to another RIAA? They are out dated, and they WILL be brought down.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Fatalflaw+Feb 20 2004, 11:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatalflaw @ Feb 20 2004, 11:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Feb 20 2004, 07:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Feb 20 2004, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So the argument is that if the place/corporation is corrupt, it's OK to do something you know is illegal?
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> theres only one thing, if you dont like Best Buy's prices, you can always go to a different store. If you dont like the RIAA's prices, WTH u gonna do? go to another RIAA? They are out dated, and they WILL be brought down. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesnt that statement go both ways Mr. Mojo?
I myself am not saying that simply b/c the place/corporation is corrupt makes it ok to do illegal activity. But then again I dont speak for eveyone here.
What it comes down too is that its bad to illegaly pirate software/media AND its also illegal to supeonapeople before filing the actual law suit and thus where the exthorsion complications come into play.
IF these alligations become true... Well its just as bad.
I dont care who you are, software/media pirate or white collar criminal you are jsut as bad in my mind both are criminals. It doesnt matter what side you are on.
Dont download music, and dont great the commerical laws.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cpl.Davis+Feb 20 2004, 01:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Feb 20 2004, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fatalflaw+Feb 20 2004, 11:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatalflaw @ Feb 20 2004, 11:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Feb 20 2004, 07:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Feb 20 2004, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So the argument is that if the place/corporation is corrupt, it's OK to do something you know is illegal?
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> theres only one thing, if you dont like Best Buy's prices, you can always go to a different store. If you dont like the RIAA's prices, WTH u gonna do? go to another RIAA? They are out dated, and they WILL be brought down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesnt that statement go both ways Mr. Mojo?
I myself am not saying that simply b/c the place/corporation is corrupt makes it ok to do illegal activity. But then again I dont speak for eveyone here.
What it comes down too is that its bad to illegaly pirate software/media AND its also illegal to supeonapeople before filing the actual law suit and thus where the exthorsion complications come into play.
IF these alligations become true... Well its just as bad.
I dont care who you are, software/media pirate or white collar criminal you are jsut as bad in my mind both are criminals. It doesnt matter what side you are on.
Dont download music, and dont great the commerical laws. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is where I disagree with you. A person stealing a candy bar from a store != a corrupt Enron executive. Theres a big difference there. Did they both commit a crime? Sure, but in no way should their punishment be equal. Not that I'm saying people who are downloading music should get slaps on the wrist, and no I'm not going to say I haven't downloaded, but to say their as bad as a murderer is a joke.
The RIAA and middle man makes enough money; it's the artist that deserves more. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What power has law where only money rules. Gaius Petronius (~66 AD)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> From quotationspage.com
<!--QuoteBegin-Maveric+Feb 20 2004, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Feb 20 2004, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The RIAA and middle man makes enough money; it's the artist that deserves more. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The artists get plenty of money from live events....in no way do they need MORE money from record sales.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
otto distruct i agree with you. I never said that a thief that steals $1 is the same as one who steals $100,000. Let me clarifiy what I was trying to say.
I meerly stated that IF the alligations are true then both sides are simply criminals.
In terms of putting a dollar aspect on this situation in this case however
The RIAA will say that illegal file sharers are costing the recording industry many thousands of dollars. And so they try to get people to settle by paying them said thousands.
However IF the alligations of exhortion and racketeerrng are correct that same dollar amount (the said thousands) is still being used in the cases.
However technnical and minute you get, it is illegal to send somene a supeona and make contact with someone to coerce them to pay thousands of dollars in a settlement for a supeona for a court case that doesnt even yet exist.
So either way you might look at it as the file sharer steals thousands of dollars by downloading/stealing the songs while the RIAA illegaly (<==has yet to be defermined) exhorts thousands of dollars from the people they target by giving them illegal supoenas.
so simply put again. File sharers steal thousands of $ worth of media from record labels and artists. And/Or RIAA illegaly takes thousands of $ from targeted filesharers suspects.
Note my many uses of the word IF b/c im not going to acuse anyone of anything until this case grows and the judical/civil system comes to a conclusion.
This whole thing is jsut a big mess for both sides if you ask me personaly.
Comments
The first point I would argue against though. Have you looked in places like HMV? HMV (Or at least the online componant) have New Releases at £9.99 and things like the current "3 for £20". Of course this isn't very useful if your looking for stuff thats a little harder to come by rather than the typically mainstream stuff. Half of it is just a case of looking around. Half the reason I've gone on a music spending spree is mainly having a CD is just that little bit nicer than having a group of files on my hard disk.
However I will agree on the other points you make. It is hard for many bands to achieve widespread exposure and the ones that do see to be either take ages to earn it or are manufactured. Of course the success storys go on to earn obsene amounts of money (I mean if you really want to see what I mean go and watch an episode of MTV Cribs) Problem is with these success storys comes a problem. The other not so successful artists don't get the exposure and thats the sad thing. The decent artists just don't get the exposure they deserve. The only reason I heard of Soil is through Kerrang and thats Cable TV. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironically, I have very few mp3s. Most of my music is on CD.
HMV, Virgin and all the other high street music vendors all play the same game. They have permenent sales on offering mediocre mainstream stuff. Its only when trying to buy another slightly off centre do you get stung. I got murdered for a Jellyfish album from Virgin before I woke up to otehr retailers. Even so, I still think music is overpriced at £10 per album.
I'm fortunate because I have some friends that are into very different music, and I get exposure through that. That's how I discovered British Sea Power.
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv.
about time someone started suing them back, it will be interesting to see how it plays out <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
pretty obvious really <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't see why you people are so mad at the RIAA. We all know downloading music is illegal. I'm not preaching that everyone stops and tries to do good in the world, but if you get caught, suck it up. You knew the risk when you started downoading.
Age or sex or occupation doesn't matter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Acutally DOom is right conisdering that under the so called Patriot act the govt can
detain you without telling your family or anyone where you are, how long you will be detained for, and why you are being detained in the first place, search you, deport you, log information on books you buy or barrow, obtain DNA samples, and read your email and other stuff all without having to obtain a legal warrent to do so and without giving you proper legal counciling.
blablabla thats just the tip of the ice berg, go research it yourself
Now that people are starting to calm down after 9/11 and see what Tom Ashcrofts patriot act really does
Several States have alraedy enacted several laws and acts to outright contradict it.
As well as many state governments simply ruling it as unconstitutional.
And about the RIAA.
Yes people should know what they are getting into but either unfortunatly or not (depending on which side you are on) anti piracy laws are just about as affective as Speed limit signs.
I bet 99% of everyone in this forum has drivin their car over the posted speed limit at some point in there life.
Now should these anti piracy laws be enforced and violators be made fair game?
Sure however anyone who seeks to take legal action against someone must do it legally themselves.
Police in America for example would get hammered if they used illegaly obtained evidence or any other technicallity.
You cant break the law to enforce it. Now Im not saying the RIAA has yet, ill wait until the court decides on that since they are the most informed about it.
This matter will never go anywhere as it is subjective. Subjective matters never have one true/right answer and here this is the case.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The RIAA has no legal power other than demanding subpoenas be issued to people by the court, they can't do it themselves.
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres only one thing, if you dont like Best Buy's prices, you can always go to a different store. If you dont like the RIAA's prices, WTH u gonna do? go to another RIAA? They are out dated, and they WILL be brought down.
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres only one thing, if you dont like Best Buy's prices, you can always go to a different store. If you dont like the RIAA's prices, WTH u gonna do? go to another RIAA? They are out dated, and they WILL be brought down. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesnt that statement go both ways Mr. Mojo?
I myself am not saying that simply b/c the place/corporation is corrupt makes it ok to do illegal activity. But then again I dont speak for eveyone here.
What it comes down too is that its bad to illegaly pirate software/media AND its also illegal to supeonapeople before filing the actual law suit and thus where the exthorsion complications come into play.
IF these alligations become true...
Well its just as bad.
I dont care who you are, software/media pirate or white collar criminal you are jsut as bad in my mind both are criminals. It doesnt matter what side you are on.
Dont download music, and dont great the commerical laws.
I'm pretty sure Best Buy has overpriced stuff, I think I'll go steal myself a flatscreen tv. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres only one thing, if you dont like Best Buy's prices, you can always go to a different store. If you dont like the RIAA's prices, WTH u gonna do? go to another RIAA? They are out dated, and they WILL be brought down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesnt that statement go both ways Mr. Mojo?
I myself am not saying that simply b/c the place/corporation is corrupt makes it ok to do illegal activity. But then again I dont speak for eveyone here.
What it comes down too is that its bad to illegaly pirate software/media AND its also illegal to supeonapeople before filing the actual law suit and thus where the exthorsion complications come into play.
IF these alligations become true...
Well its just as bad.
I dont care who you are, software/media pirate or white collar criminal you are jsut as bad in my mind both are criminals. It doesnt matter what side you are on.
Dont download music, and dont great the commerical laws. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is where I disagree with you. A person stealing a candy bar from a store != a corrupt Enron executive. Theres a big difference there. Did they both commit a crime? Sure, but in no way should their punishment be equal. Not that I'm saying people who are downloading music should get slaps on the wrist, and no I'm not going to say I haven't downloaded, but to say their as bad as a murderer is a joke.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What power has law where only money rules.
Gaius Petronius (~66 AD)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From quotationspage.com
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The artists get plenty of money from live events....in no way do they need MORE money from record sales.
I meerly stated that IF the alligations are true then both sides are simply criminals.
In terms of putting a dollar aspect on this situation in this case however
The RIAA will say that illegal file sharers are costing the recording industry many thousands of dollars.
And so they try to get people to settle by paying them said thousands.
However IF the alligations of exhortion and racketeerrng are correct that same dollar amount (the said thousands) is still being used in the cases.
However technnical and minute you get, it is illegal to send somene a supeona and make contact with someone to coerce them to pay thousands of dollars in a settlement for a supeona for a court case that doesnt even yet exist.
So either way you might look at it as the file sharer steals thousands of dollars by downloading/stealing the songs while the RIAA illegaly (<==has yet to be defermined)
exhorts thousands of dollars from the people they target by giving them illegal supoenas.
so simply put again.
File sharers steal thousands of $ worth of media from record labels and artists.
And/Or
RIAA illegaly takes thousands of $ from targeted filesharers suspects.
Note my many uses of the word IF b/c im not going to acuse anyone of anything until this case grows and the judical/civil system comes to a conclusion.
This whole thing is jsut a big mess for both sides if you ask me personaly.