How Common Are Buggy Hitboxes?

SuperTeflon · February 2004

Any ideas? I constantly see it (or think I am) but I want to know if it's really my sucky aim (<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />) or if the skulk hitbox bugs up as much as I think...

romano · February 2004

Well, theres 2 seperate issues..

1) shotgun sparks ... happens very often. Shoot an alien with your shotgun (usually very close range), and only see sparks not blood, and no damage is done. Happens almost everytime the alien is super close range, it seems.
2) player specific bugged hitboxes ... happens relatively rarely. I'd say maybe a 15% chance there will be a bugged player in any given game. Happens (seemingly) totally at random, and the player is basically invincible when moving "fast" (skulk/fade/jp marine are most noticeable). Since there is no way to reproduce this and it's basically unprovable, and seems like a Steam problem more then NS problem.. this may be here to stay..

th0r0n · February 2004

The shotgun/skulk problem is getting extremely serious, I can't hit anything close range now, as a temporary measure, try aiming behind the skulk (I think the hitbox lags behind the model, just like when someone looks like they're shooting from behind etc, don't think the models are updating quick enough) ^_^

V_MAN · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (th0r0n^ @ Feb 18 2004, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The shotgun/skulk problem is getting extremely serious, I can't hit anything close range now, as a temporary measure, try aiming behind the skulk (I think the hitbox lags behind the model, just like when someone looks like they're shooting from behind etc, don't think the models are updating quick enough) ^_^  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I though it was just me being sh*t or something <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />

Damn those hit boxes!

On a side not you wanna see really buggy hitboxes go play dod <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

taboofires · February 2004

It's an issue with steam, apparently. Aiming at the rear end of a skulk/fade seems to help, but it's hard to miss an onos <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I'm still trying to figure out how far it usually lags behind the player. It's not consistant, which makes things that much harder.

Retales · February 2004

And sometimes hitboxes go through walls. In Lost (not sure about the map) is a room from where it's easy to siege a hive. There is an unbreakable glass and you can see the hive through it. Once a skulk was on the other side of the glass, hanging from it. I tried firing a few lmg rounds, when I discovered I actually hit that little critter. I immediately fired the rest of my clip and killed the skulk. And of course got accused of cheating (I got kicked, I recall).

TheGivingTree · February 2004

Sometimes Ill shoot at a skulk, and I'll be aiming and the wall and the skulk will end up dead. Especially with the shotgun, I just turn real fast and shoot most the time I don't even hit him and it ends up dead.

BTW this is very common for me, it's about everygame I play I can aim far behind the skulk or not even on him and I get a kill. Something needs to be done.

Cold_NiTe · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (romano^_^ @ Feb 17 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2) player specific bugged hitboxes ... happens relatively rarely. I'd say maybe a 15% chance there will be a bugged player in any given game. Happens (seemingly) totally at random, and the player is basically invincible when moving "fast" (skulk/fade/jp marine are most noticeable). Since there is no way to reproduce this and it's basically unprovable, and seems like a Steam problem more then NS problem.. this may be here to stay..  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Man that has got to be fun to be that skulk, even for a short while. Poor little buggers are about to have their plug pulled when this gets fixed... if it does anytime soon...

Cloud_King · February 2004

I don't think any of the bugs romano talked about have anything to do with steam, because i've played 3.0 beta 3 on won and they were still there :\. Maybe flayra should just scrap the whole shotgun code and recode it?

Licho · February 2004

It's just problem with netcode/way hl works (and every action game).
In inperfect enviroment (clients delayed by 50-100ms) you can't get perfect synchronization and so such things happen and will happen..
It's not limited to shotgun only, it is same with all weapons..
The faster you move and change direction the more displaced you can be on client that is trying to shoot you..

BizZy_9mm_Messiah · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (th0r0n^ @ Feb 18 2004, 11:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The shotgun/skulk problem is getting extremely serious, I can't hit anything close range now, as a temporary measure, try aiming behind the skulk (I think the hitbox lags behind the model, just like when someone looks like they're shooting from behind etc, don't think the models are updating quick enough) ^_^  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Oh man, I thought my shotty skills went out the window with 2.0. Good thing I checked this thread out.

Forlorn · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (romano^_^ @ Feb 17 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1) shotgun sparks ... happens very often. Shoot an alien with your shotgun (usually very close range), and only see sparks not blood, and no damage is done. Happens almost everytime the alien is super close range, it seems.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
It is worthwhile to note that Flayra changed the shotgun coding in 3.0, in order to fix the reload bugs with the shotgun. Now, however, it seems the shotgun is a total P.O.S. up close so you know...

Shockeh · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 19 2004, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (romano^_^ @ Feb 17 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 1) shotgun sparks ... happens very often. Shoot an alien with your shotgun (usually very close range), and only see sparks not blood, and no damage is done. Happens almost everytime the alien is super close range, it seems. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
It is worthwhile to note that Flayra changed the shotgun coding in 3.0, in order to fix the reload bugs with the shotgun. Now, however, it seems the shotgun is a total P.O.S. up close so you know...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Oddly, I've had that quite a lot. I was convinced I'd just not been using it enough lately, because I seemed to get it more often in 3.x onwards. Bug, or am I just being lame?

Supernorn · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 19 2004, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It is worthwhile to note that Flayra changed the shotgun coding in 3.0, in order to fix the reload bugs with the shotgun. Now, however, it seems the shotgun is a total P.O.S. up close so you know...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Everyone makes mistakes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Turkey2 · February 2004

I was testing the close range problem yesterday, basically I took focus and hopped around the corner into the face of a pretty good shotgunner repeatedly. He got me roughly half the time usually in mid bite so its not always bugged up close.

Krezalyz · February 2004

Well the hitbox seems to lag a lot.. when you think you are "safe" around a corner you just die to those "ghost bullets".. It annoys every time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />
Well i'll just hope something gets done...

ZiGGY · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Retales @ Feb 18 2004, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And sometimes hitboxes go through walls. In Lost (not sure about the map) is a room from where it's easy to siege a hive. There is an unbreakable glass and you can see the hive through it. Once a skulk was on the other side of the glass, hanging from it. I tried firing a few lmg rounds, when I discovered I actually hit that little critter. I immediately fired the rest of my clip and killed the skulk. And of course got accused of cheating (I got kicked, I recall).  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
thats nothing new... ;/

BobTheJanitor · February 2004

The dying around corners effect is due to lag compensation. Which, if working correcly, should also fix the bugged hitboxes one would think. Lag comp takes what you see on your screen and applies that to your shots, so if you see a skulk lagging around the screen you don't have to guess where he'll be, just shoot exactly where he is. Even if on his sytem, he appears to be across the room, you'll still hit him because that's what you see on your system. Try spectating people some time. It's especially easy to notice with the HMG, for some reason. They'll appear to be shooting slightly behind the alien and still hitting it, because on their screen that's where the alien is.

Dantemss · February 2004

*Don't blame me for posting a site related to cs. Please.*
This site may show you an example of player position history (lag compensation) failure. That may explain the shotgun flash thing. You probably have to watch it by yourself to believe.
<a href='http://www.summerblue.net/games/cs_report/6_2_deflection.html' target='_blank'>Counter-Stike Report</a>
The guy uses a cheat to make that demo, but I swear you can't download it anywhere in that site. Also, this site has some tips to optimizing ping, choke and loss. Requires de flash plugin to see the demo. And that's cs 1.3, for you who have never seen it.

BattleTech · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (romano^_^ @ Feb 17 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well, theres 2 seperate issues..

1) shotgun sparks ... happens very often. Shoot an alien with your shotgun (usually very close range), and only see sparks not blood, and no damage is done. Happens almost everytime the alien is super close range, it seems.
2) player specific bugged hitboxes ... happens relatively rarely. I'd say maybe a 15% chance there will be a bugged player in any given game. Happens (seemingly) totally at random, and the player is basically invincible when moving "fast" (skulk/fade/jp marine are most noticeable). Since there is no way to reproduce this and it's basically unprovable, and seems like a Steam problem more then NS problem.. this may be here to stay.. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Both of these bug's are confirmed, easy to replicate (demos) and complained about frequently by players though why aren't these bugs both listed in the bug database? I don't want a broken shotgun shooting rubber bullets at skulk's at cqb.

Dantemss · February 2004

The point is that only ns bugs (and a few steam ones) go into the bug database. Being a half-life engine bug, I don't think there is much hope for fixing this. (Maybe I am wrong?)

brute_force · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Retales @ Feb 18 2004, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And sometimes hitboxes go through walls. In Lost (not sure about the map) is a room from where it's easy to siege a hive. There is an unbreakable glass and you can see the hive through it. Once a skulk was on the other side of the glass, hanging from it. I tried firing a few lmg rounds, when I discovered I actually hit that little critter. I immediately fired the rest of my clip and killed the skulk. And of course got accused of cheating (I got kicked, I recall).  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Meh, I killed a rine through that glass as a skulk. I've also knifed a skulk through that glass. Kinda OT, but oh well. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Arsenic0 · February 2004

Its pretty obvious the hitboxes lag behind fast moving targets..

I cant tell you how many times as a Skulk with Celerity ive died AFTER turning a corner.

Even when both of us have < 100 ping i die all the time to people after turning a corner when in reality if i was standing there..the bullets would have never gotten to me.

Last · February 2004

Even in previous versions I've noticed I'd get sparks while hitting a celerity skulk. When I started leading the crosshair in front of the skulk, they'd die pretty easily. Anyway, I saw a video (lost the URL, it was spammed somewhere on IRC) that showed several sub| members shooting one wall circling skulk in 3.0 with hmgs, shotties, and what not. It took around ten seconds to bring one skulk down. Another vid showed a headon shot at a moving lerk (all ten shots hit, it should've killed it even with carapace). Instead of killing it, sparks showed up and the lerk got away unharmed. Once again, I noticed the spark problem in 2.0 when using custom models. I used to have a hydralisk as a fade replacement, and while hitting the non-hitbox area of the model (head plate), I'd get sparks without causing any real damage. :\.

Bison · February 2004

Sometimes when a skulk is hopping around, shooting under him seems to help <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

e_Nadagast · February 2004

The shotgun sparks bug happens in 2.01 as well... and I'd say it's one of if not the most serious bug in NS right now. Can mess you up if you lose a few shotties early game because when you shoot the skulk you just get sparks.

TeRaH_uNiT · February 2004

I think most of the hitbox issues has to do with what they say in this <a href='http://www.summerblue.net/games/cs_report/6_1_space_time.html' target='_blank'>Link</a> server has some player position problem. I think thats the thing with redemp, the model gets redemped but the hitboxes lag and stay back causing you to die with redemp or when dying behind corners when you think your safe. Maybe its just half-life in general.

SuperTeflon · February 2004

Ah, the shotgun sparks I always thought was related to bugged hitboxes... god I hate that *Cries*

Impy_The_Lerk · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Feb 19 2004, 09:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 19 2004, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It is worthwhile to note that Flayra changed the shotgun coding in 3.0, in order to fix the reload bugs with the shotgun. Now, however, it seems the shotgun is a total P.O.S. up close so you know... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Everyone makes mistakes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
please fix your mistake and go back to the old code

id much rather have a ocational reload problem... then 50% of my shots not land for "magical reasons"

Forlorn · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Feb 19 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Even in previous versions I've noticed I'd get sparks while hitting a celerity skulk. When I started leading the crosshair in front of the skulk, they'd die pretty easily. Anyway, I saw a video (lost the URL, it was spammed somewhere on IRC) that showed several sub| members shooting one wall circling skulk in 3.0 with hmgs, shotties, and what not. It took around ten seconds to bring one skulk down. Another vid showed a headon shot at a moving lerk (all ten shots hit, it should've killed it even with carapace). Instead of killing it, sparks showed up and the lerk got away unharmed. Once again, I noticed the spark problem in 2.0 when using custom models. I used to have a hydralisk as a fade replacement, and while hitting the non-hitbox area of the model (head plate), I'd get sparks without causing any real damage. :\.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I still have that demo, if someone could host it on a site we could let others see exactly what the hell we are talking about.

Oh and by the way last, the demo was recorded by me, a very frustrated NSPlayer at 2 AM in the mourning who was tired of dying to an invincible skulk

taboofires · February 2004

I've noticed that the problem is at its worst in combat, because there you have lots of celerity skulks and shotguns floating about. Considering one hive, even with carapace, it shoudln't take more than 2 reasonably on-target shotty blasts to kill the skulk, but that is rarely the case.

Perhaps the problem is compounded by the extra speed increase of celerity?

And no, guys the problem is not at all related to dying around corners. That is intentional and beneficial. When you run, and die when seemingly safe, you were already dead but just didn't know it yet. Marines being bitten at odd distances is also intentional. The problem is not getting a hit when you should, not dying when you think you're safe.

How Common Are Buggy Hitboxes?

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