The Fade And The Onos Are Way Too Strong
Teioh
Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A real step backwards</div> The one thing I liked about the 1.04 to 2.0 transaction was the weakening of the Fade and the Onos. In 2.0 the days of the acid spamming tank who didn't die was pushed out by a new breed of Fade, an agile killing machine that you had to be very careful with. In 3.0, with the increase in Fade and Onos health, you're seeing back into the 1.04 days of the unstoppable or nearly unstoppable alien classes mopping up the marines. I saw in the beta that one of the goals of 3.0 was to make it so the counter to one onos isn't an entire team of marines and the counter to HA trains isn't an entire team of aliens but this has clearly not been met. We're seeing, especially now as the average skill is increasing dramatically that the counter to one Onos is an entire team of marines chasing it down, most of the time, failing. That's only one Onos though, generally you have multiple ones at a time. On top of that, the Fade now also needs many marines to attack it at once. Make no mistake, I don't want it so that one marine can solo an Onos but I also don't want it so that one Onos can solo an entire team. It's just no fun when you see that Onos and you KNOW you and your buds are going to die, it's just aggrovating. Something needs to be done to bring these classes back into line because they are just way too strong. Personally, I think it's because of the damage mitigation that comes with each hive...
Comments
The fade is fine, and if anything the onos is too weak in classic.
People seem to cry balance when they loose a game, one team HAS to win. The marines are very capable to win in 3.0, classic and combat.
No-Life
The fade is fine, and if anything the onos is too weak in classic.
No-Life <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My aiming is quite fine, thank you very much. No, the onos isn't too weak in classic since I have seen people own entire teams as Fade and Onos and I have done it myself.
That made your post null, if the aliens have more than 1 hive most of the time they are doing good, and if they have 3 they should win 90% of the time.
No-Life
That made your post null, if the aliens have more than 1 hive most of the time they are doing good, and if they have 3 they should win 90% of the time.
No-Life <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll say this again. 3.0 was designed in mind so that one person can't take out an entire team, with three hives, one person can. If the aliens have 3 hives they probably will win 90% of the time but 3 hives shouldn't automatically mean that the aliens become these super beings. Even at two hives the mitigation makes them incredibly strong.
It's just that fades appear too early (I should have put this in the original post). They come before the armory advances, so you're stuck with shotties and generally lvl 1 armor + weapons, while those are good and they will take down an inexperienced fade, an experienced one can mop everything up. By the time you do get an adv armory, you have Onos with 2 hives running around. It's the same thing every game.
3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs.
3-4 LMG marines should run in fear from an onos. It SHOULD take HMGs and shottys to down a 75 res lifeform, and as of 3.0 beta 3 it does.
There seems to be a trend in the posts...
No-Life
However, there is some indication that the lagging hitbox bug is still around. I've hit fades dead on, many times, only to see sparks instead of blood. At sub-100 ping too.
3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way!
3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not exactly? Are you saying that if only 1 alien goes gorge and builds stuff while the rest just res **** and go onos at 75 res they should be unstoppable? If you think 4 LMG marines should be slaughtered then what are they supposed to do when they are facing two, three, four, or five onos, who if they res ****, they can onos very fast?
3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not exactly? Are you saying that if only 1 alien goes gorge and builds stuff while the rest just res **** and go onos at 75 res they should be unstoppable? If you think 4 LMG marines should be slaughtered then what are they supposed to do when they are facing two, three, four, or five onos, who if they res ****, they can onos very fast? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dan, I don't mean to be too rude when I say this, but you honestly need more experience with the game.
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One skulk going off of RFK and one tower can easily get Fade before the marines are even close to getting HMGs.
5 LMGs roughly = 1 HMG in terms of total dmg done over time
Before you say that 4 LMG's should be able to kill an onos, remember, LMG's are FREE WEAPONS, onos are TOP TEIR TECH of the aliens, shouldn't it make sense that marines should use top teir tech to counter top teir tech of the aliens?
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One skulk going off of RFK and one tower can easily get Fade before the marines are even close to getting HMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This also confirms what I've been saying about you needing more experience.
Let me ask you this:
- Who is stronger (in general)? Skulks or A basic, LMG marine?
Seriously when youre playing with good teams on both sides ns just goes up a level.
5 LMGs roughly = 1 HMG in terms of total dmg done over time
Before you say that 4 LMG's should be able to kill an onos, remember, LMG's are FREE WEAPONS, onos are TOP TEIR TECH of the aliens, shouldn't it make sense that marines should use top teir tech to counter top teir tech of the aliens? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know they are top teir tech but 4 of anything should be able to take out 1 of anything. The 5 LMGs = 1 statement just shows you the HUGE gap inbetween upgrades which is why problems like what I described occur. It does make sense that marines should use top teir tech to counter top tier life forms but does it make sense that top tier life forms come much, MUCH faster than the marines? The idea of countering fades by killing all their res nodes is absurd, if you are playing even a moderatly skilled team, you're not going to get their res tower by the time the a skilled player can go fade (~3-4 minutes).
Seriously when youre playing with good teams on both sides ns just goes up a level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats the thing, I am playing with good teams on both sides it's just that 9/10 times I see the marines get their rear ends handed to them. It's the EXACT same thing everytime.
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One skulk going off of RFK and one tower can easily get Fade before the marines are even close to getting HMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This also confirms what I've been saying about you needing more experience.
Let me ask you this:
- Who is stronger (in general)? Skulks or A basic, LMG marine? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The experience comment is out of line, you've never seen me play and I've never seen you play, so please don't make comments like that again. A good basic marine will win against a good skulk. A top tier alien will win against a top tier skulk.
Aye, I find onos are very easy to kill in 3.0... a little too easy if you ask me ¬_¬
:P
I don't think the onos' hp/ap is what makes it strong. An onos without stomp or celerity is not going to do that well against 4 LMGs. However, it's necessary for onos to be powerful at second hive in order to break marine defenses.
The idea that onos appear before heavy/decently-upgraded guns seems a little out of kilter with my own experiece, I have to say. Usually, if the aliens have 4/5 RTs and the marines have 3/4 RTs, the tech is roughly the same pace. Ultimately, we'll have to agree to disagree, since it's purely a matter of opinion.
NB: I started writing this before the correction. :P
Anyway the point is NS is supposed to be a dynamic team game with FPS components, it is not a PURE rts, that means that it is not 4 marines going against 1 zerg, it is 4 players playing as marines going against 1 player playing an alien. They have to balance it with that in mind.
You also have to keep in mind tech trees are there for a reason, just like 4 skulks have almost 0 chance to kill a 3/3 HA/HMG, 4 lmg la marines have almost 0 chance to kill an onos, make enough sense now?