<!--QuoteBegin-Reese+Feb 17 2004, 02:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reese @ Feb 17 2004, 02:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the detail textures bit is somehow graphics driver related. We've had at least one instance where the only system change made was a more recent driver and it solved the problem. I think that should be the first thing you might want to check coil. I don't really understand why it's a current driver issue but it seems to be. I guess check back in if that doesn't fix it up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My drivers were published in 2002 and I have detail textures. That's pretty old. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
coil what are your driver specs, what year were they published and what revision?
I have re-installed the latest drivers to no luck. Is anyone with a Gforce/Nvidia card got this working? If not maybe its another part of ati's deal with valve...
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+Feb 17 2004, 03:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Feb 17 2004, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seems to be an ATi feature though....as my video card doesn't have any fancy settings at all for some reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well, not really... I have a Nvidia card too and it works, though it's GF 4 Ti 4800...
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr.Zenz+Feb 17 2004, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr.Zenz @ Feb 17 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It seems only Gf4Ti and higher supports Detailtextures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Anyone with a GF4MX got detailtextures working? maybe it's a DX issue...
It worked for my Radeon 9600 Pro but doesn't for my older Geforce 2 MX.
To be honest you can get detail textures to work on older cards, since games like UT2K3 and AvP2 use them for nearly any 3D card. I was even able to see them in UT2K4 with my GF2MX, so it's just a matter of Valve fully implementing them in Steam HL and adding it as a supported feature in the Video option. I guess they're still testing it.
It seems, that WON doesnt support the Detail Textures at all and by reading all your specs i think this is a DX8 (or more) feature. I'm not talking about the installed DirectX version but about the DX capabilities the specific graphic card has. At least it seems this way. We may need more testing. And by the way, great discovery guys !!!
Detail textures look cool. The true key to using them well is to take all the detail out of the larger (base) texture (allowing you to make it smaller, or strech it) and put it all into the smaller detail texture.
One thing is for sure - I can use r_detailtextures when I am using the HL opengl renderer, but I can't use them when using the DX renderer. Please mention in your specs which renderer you are using.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Yamazaki+Feb 17 2004, 12:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yamazaki @ Feb 17 2004, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It worked for my Radeon 9600 Pro but doesn't for my older Geforce 2 MX.
To be honest you can get detail textures to work on older cards, since games like UT2K3 and AvP2 use them for nearly any 3D card. I was even able to see them in UT2K4 with my GF2MX, so it's just a matter of Valve fully implementing them in Steam HL and adding it as a supported feature in the Video option. I guess they're still testing it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe the original unreal did it in software. That engine rocked pretty hardcore.
Can you say <i>overkill </i><!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*evil grin steadily changing to evillaugh mwuahahaha, hides under desk scared himself*
<!--QuoteBegin-Paladin+Feb 17 2004, 05:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paladin @ Feb 17 2004, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It seems, that WON doesnt support the Detail Textures at all and by reading all your specs i think this is a DX8 (or more) feature. I'm not talking about the installed DirectX version but about the DX capabilities the specific graphic card has. At least it seems this way. We may need more testing. And by the way, great discovery guys !!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's an OpenGL application, so it won't rely on DirectX at all - it probably requires some particular OpenGL extension which isn't being provided by all the drivers for different graphics cards.
I've tried looking for some Windows command-line tool for listing available OpenGL extensions so the output for different cards can be easily compared, but I can't find one - it's something desperately easy to do in teh Lunix...
My guess is that the existing detail texture support is written for some fairly modern extension which isn't supported by all cards; I think there was some situation with SGI's optional SGIS_MULTITEXTURE becoming a required ARB_MULTITEXTURE (or something) a few years ago; this might be related. Some drivers might not be providing the modern version. With a bit of luck, the final r_detailtextures might support more hardware. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think the pop-up illusion is probably because your brain bases distance in the game upon the detail of the texture, so the low-detail one will look closer than the high-detail :o
On a side note I haven't got it working yet, latest drivers, I'm updating CS now to see if that makes a difference.
Nope, seems like it must be my crappy video card...
So far it seems that Gforce 4Ti and higher support this feature, and the Radeons seem to as well. Pity about the older cards, although they might not be able to handle it anyway. Anyone feel like hacking the card and enabling it for me? lol. Remember all Nvidia Gforce cards use the same driver, so its not really driver related, but maybe the newer cards allow this feature in the driver to be implimented?
New Edit = Everyone i have talked to playing NS with a Nvidia Card Below the FX/TI series does NOT have this command, and everyone with or above this does! Im not sure about ATI or any other cards. Time for me to upgrade i think.
<!--QuoteBegin-Belgarion+Feb 18 2004, 12:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Belgarion @ Feb 18 2004, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i'm using a Radeon 8500LE 128MB and i have the feature. unfortunately still not detail texes to use with it, but i have the option nonetheless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My pack goes un-noticed. Sure it isn't the best collection of detail textures ever but I'm not claiming to be a texture artist anyway. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Radeon 9600 XT have the feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> DarkATi if you made the .txt doc that displays it in-game. A lot of people would use it.
Anyone have any old drivers for the Gforce Family for XP (i.e Pre Det 53.XX series). I wan't to see if that enables it, if so we may be getting closer...
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Reebdoog+Feb 19 2004, 12:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reebdoog @ Feb 19 2004, 12:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone have any old drivers for the Gforce Family for XP (i.e Pre Det 53.XX series). I wan't to see if that enables it, if so we may be getting closer... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.omegaCorner.com' target='_blank'>OmegaCorner</a> has drivers based off the v45.23 Dets and older. The website explains the difference between the "quality" and "performance" choice on install.
Allright I think I know how to find conclusive proof either way. It would be better for someone with an nv card installed to do this then me digging up an old card and fiddling around with changing cards and drivers back and forth.
Can anyone with an NV card, any NV card, go and download riva tuner from <a href='http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget.php?id=163&file=1&evp=3dd4bb8da7a55799f2d49e3dcfc0e6aa' target='_blank'>guru3d - riva tuner download page</a>.
Install it, fire it up, go into openGL settings(from the driver settings page?) and locate the compatibillity settings. If this feature is still supported(it was, like half a year ago when I was using NV) there should be a list of compatibillity and or emulation modes. We know this feature should work on a geforce 4 ti, these cards use the nv25 chipset if I remember correctly. If you are using an older card than a geforce 4 ti then try to enable nv25(or is it 28?) emulation and start a game of NS, if you are using a geforce 4 or higher select a compatibillity mode lower than nv25(28?).
Does r_detailtextures appear or not under these settings? If so then do they appear under nv20 emulation/compatibillity?(geforce 3 ti)
Do they appear under nv15 mode(geforce 2/geforce 4 mx)?
You will probably have to restart the game every time you change anything for it to take effect(or avoid a crash?).
disclaimer: This would not be a fix, if you use emulation of features your card does not support, performance would be shot utterly to hell. If a tnt-2 or geforce 2 or something actually tried to render detail textures and did not support whatever feature they need to use you would probably see something like 1/1000-1/10 the original performance or even crash the application.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone have any old drivers for the Gforce Family for XP (i.e Pre Det 53.XX series). I wan't to see if that enables it, if so we may be getting closer... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Certainly: <a href='http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=10' target='_blank'>guru3d - huge list of old nvdrivers for download.</a>.
Drivers don't age "gracefully" like wine though <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Comments
My drivers were published in 2002 and I have detail textures. That's pretty old. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
coil what are your driver specs, what year were they published and what revision?
~ DarkATi
Sys specs : WinXP Pro, Geforce 4 440mx running det drivers 6.14.10.5303
Steam with - HL SP, NS, Stealthmod Prototype (very few no?)
Steam Settings - OpenGL 1152x864 32bpp
Seems to be an ATi feature though....as my video card doesn't have any fancy settings at all for some reason.
It seems only Gf4Ti and higher supports Detailtextures.
well, not really... I have a Nvidia card too and it works, though it's GF 4 Ti 4800...
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr.Zenz+Feb 17 2004, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr.Zenz @ Feb 17 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It seems only Gf4Ti and higher supports Detailtextures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone with a GF4MX got detailtextures working? maybe it's a DX issue...
edit: i din't test it with steam, only won
To be honest you can get detail textures to work on older cards, since games like UT2K3 and AvP2 use them for nearly any 3D card. I was even able to see them in UT2K4 with my GF2MX, so it's just a matter of Valve fully implementing them in Steam HL and adding it as a supported feature in the Video option. I guess they're still testing it.
All running :
<i>2.4ghz Athlon XP
Windows XP Home
512 mb DDRAM</i>
#1
<i>Geforce 4 Ti 4200
Driver : Forceware 6.14.10.5303
Steam
</i><b>Works</b>
#2
<i>Geforce 4 Ti 4200
Driver : Forceware 6.14.10.5303
Won
</i><b>Doesn't work</b>
#3
<i>Geforce 2 MX400
Driver : Forceware 6.14.10.5303
Steam
</i><b>Doesn't work</b>
#4
<i>Hercules KYRO 2
Driver : The one that ships with the card
Steam
</i><b>Doesn't work</b>
#5
<i>Geforce 4 Ti 4600
Driver : Forceware 6.14.10.5303
Steam
</i><b>Works</b>
It seems, that WON doesnt support the Detail Textures at all and by reading all your specs i think this is a DX8 (or more) feature. I'm not talking about the installed DirectX version but about the DX capabilities the specific graphic card has.
At least it seems this way. We may need more testing. And by the way, great discovery guys !!!
One thing is for sure - I can use r_detailtextures when I am using the HL opengl renderer, but I can't use them when using the DX renderer. Please mention in your specs which renderer you are using.
-Parallax
To be honest you can get detail textures to work on older cards, since games like UT2K3 and AvP2 use them for nearly any 3D card. I was even able to see them in UT2K4 with my GF2MX, so it's just a matter of Valve fully implementing them in Steam HL and adding it as a supported feature in the Video option. I guess they're still testing it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe the original unreal did it in software. That engine rocked pretty hardcore.
VERC collective.
It only works for Steam.
Ati Sapphire Radeon 9800XT 256Mb (samsung 2.8 nanosecs memory)
Can you say <i>overkill </i><!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*evil grin steadily changing to evillaugh mwuahahaha, hides under desk scared himself*
At least it seems this way. We may need more testing. And by the way, great discovery guys !!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's an OpenGL application, so it won't rely on DirectX at all - it probably requires some particular OpenGL extension which isn't being provided by all the drivers for different graphics cards.
I've tried looking for some Windows command-line tool for listing available OpenGL extensions so the output for different cards can be easily compared, but I can't find one - it's something desperately easy to do in teh Lunix...
My guess is that the existing detail texture support is written for some fairly modern extension which isn't supported by all cards; I think there was some situation with SGI's optional SGIS_MULTITEXTURE becoming a required ARB_MULTITEXTURE (or something) a few years ago; this might be related. Some drivers might not be providing the modern version. With a bit of luck, the final r_detailtextures might support more hardware. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On a side note I haven't got it working yet, latest drivers, I'm updating CS now to see if that makes a difference.
Nope, seems like it must be my crappy video card...
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro
and it doesn't seam to want to work :/ Oh well.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->GL Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
GL Renderer: GeForce2 MX/AGP/3DNOW!
GL Version: 1.4.1
GL Extensions: GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_window_pos GL_S3_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_paletted_texture GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_lod GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_fence GL_NV_fog_distance GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_pixel_data_range GL_NV_point_sprite GL_NV_register_combiners GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_NV_vertex_array_range GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 GL_NV_vertex_program GL_NV_vertex_program1_1 GL_NVX_ycrcb GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_multitexture GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SUN_slice_accum GL_WIN_swap_hint WGL_EXT_swap_contr<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Anyone feel like hacking the card and enabling it for me? lol.
Remember all Nvidia Gforce cards use the same driver, so its not really driver related, but maybe the newer cards allow this feature in the driver to be implimented?
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>Edit = Typos <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--></i></span>
New Edit = Everyone i have talked to playing NS with a Nvidia Card Below the FX/TI series does NOT have this command, and everyone with or above this does! Im not sure about ATI or any other cards.
Time for me to upgrade i think.
My pack goes un-noticed. Sure it isn't the best collection of detail textures ever but I'm not claiming to be a texture artist anyway. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
15 Detail Textures (Some don't tile correctly unfortuanetly)
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63170' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=63170</a>
~ DarkATi
DarkATi if you made the .txt doc that displays it in-game. A lot of people would use it.
Go here it shows some of it.
<a href='http://www.omegaCorner.com' target='_blank'>OmegaCorner</a> has drivers based off the v45.23 Dets and older. The website explains the difference between the "quality" and "performance" choice on install.
Can anyone with an NV card, any NV card, go and download riva tuner from <a href='http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget.php?id=163&file=1&evp=3dd4bb8da7a55799f2d49e3dcfc0e6aa' target='_blank'>guru3d - riva tuner download page</a>.
Install it, fire it up, go into openGL settings(from the driver settings page?) and locate the compatibillity settings. If this feature is still supported(it was, like half a year ago when I was using NV) there should be a list of compatibillity and or emulation modes. We know this feature should work on a geforce 4 ti, these cards use the nv25 chipset if I remember correctly. If you are using an older card than a geforce 4 ti then try to enable nv25(or is it 28?) emulation and start a game of NS, if you are using a geforce 4 or higher select a compatibillity mode lower than nv25(28?).
Does r_detailtextures appear or not under these settings? If so then do they appear under nv20 emulation/compatibillity?(geforce 3 ti)
Do they appear under nv15 mode(geforce 2/geforce 4 mx)?
You will probably have to restart the game every time you change anything for it to take effect(or avoid a crash?).
disclaimer: This would not be a fix, if you use emulation of features your card does not support, performance would be shot utterly to hell. If a tnt-2 or geforce 2 or something actually tried to render detail textures and did not support whatever feature they need to use you would probably see something like 1/1000-1/10 the original performance or even crash the application.
Certainly: <a href='http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=10' target='_blank'>guru3d - huge list of old nvdrivers for download.</a>.
Drivers don't age "gracefully" like wine though <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.