So, What All Has Changed?

CacoCola · February 2004

I used to play NS and lost interest, this was...hmm dunno what version it was in nor how to describe the version...

Siege cannons still blasted the hive without pinging it uh, you could only get one upgrade at a time (3 total, 1 from each tree)

I dunno, I don't know how to describe it

What all have they added within the last, say, 6-8 months?

Snidely · February 2004

In short? A lot. (:

It sounds like you last played before 1.04, even. Well...

- Alien lifeforms untied from hives. So you can now go fade or onos with just one hive.
- "Hitbox" bug fixed. Now when you shoot at an alien, you actually hit what you see.
- Generally much cheaper marine stuff. HA/JPs/HMGs 15, Shotties 10, Arms Lab 20, and so on.
- Gorge no longer gets bigger share of res.
- You get 1-3 res for killing an enemy.

Those are the larger changes that I can remember off-hand. Try the "3.xx Changelog" thread up at the top for more detail.

curlydave · February 2004

Great: Many bug fixes, improvements, and balance changes.

Disturbingly Bad: Leaning more towards your generic FPS mod (dominance of NS: Combat, which is a DM version of NS, and the implentation of individual scores.)

Crono5 · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>NS: Combat, which is a DM version of NS</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Since when was NS not deathmatch? It was just deathmatch with a tech tree and resource model. Not that that's a bad thing... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
I actually like the oldest version (newest patch for oldest version) the best. It definentley made me jump a lot more and I was more into each game.

Anavrin · February 2004

Maybe you should try playing gorge/commander or do guard duty from time to time for once eh?

Crono5 · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anavrin @ Feb 8 2004, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Maybe you should try playing gorge/commander or do guard duty from time to time for once eh? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Jes' supporting the people that are DMing via stuff.

Don't get me wrong, it's very strategy base[EDIT]d, especially compared to Combat, but it's still just team DM.

curlydave · February 2004

I'm sure there are people who could provide a more elegant response with more points, but here's a few for 6 in the morning.

I think of a DM where the main/only way to bring your team success is to hunt and kill the other team.

NS: Classic is what's been described as an RTF/FPS. It incorporates many elements from strategy games (specifically starcraft) that allow a smart team to nearly win the game without killing a single enemy. The concept of territorial control is embodied with more than just "do we have a guy in that area?". The structures dropped by both sides detracts from "it's still a dm" argument. Like I said it's 6 in the morning and I'll let someone else explain this better.

I like to think of Natural Selection as a First Person Shooter with a Strategy game objective rather than a Death match one.

Trixalope · February 2004

You could've just asked my Shiv. You know me. Hell, we could've sat it out and done a Q and A session. By the way, it's PW.

If it was 1.04 you've missed an unbelievable amount of changes.
If it was 2.01, you've missed quite a few.

Just hit me up on, whatever chat program you use or PM me on the TDS forums. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

esuna · February 2004

The total changes can be found in the following threads:

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39260&hl=2\.xx+changelog' target='_blank'>1.0 -> 2.0</a>

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=55671' target='_blank'>2.0 -> 3.0</a>

Crono5 · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (curlydave @ Feb 9 2004, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm sure there are people who could provide a more elegant response with more points, but here's a few for 6 in the morning.

I think of a DM where the main/only way to bring your team success is to hunt and kill the other team.

NS: Classic is what's been described as an RTF/FPS. It incorporates many elements from strategy games (specifically starcraft) that allow a smart team to nearly win the game without killing a single enemy. The concept of territorial control is embodied with more than just "do we have a guy in that area?". The structures dropped by both sides detracts from "it's still a dm" argument. Like I said it's 6 in the morning and I'll let someone else explain this better.

I like to think of Natural Selection as a First Person Shooter with a Strategy game objective rather than a Death match one.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
You read me wrong, I'm not saying that it's no strategy, there is more than enough than just plain killing. But in the end, that's what's won. Team Deathmatch is just winning by eliminating the other team. NS has no other way to win. Granted, you don't walk in with a minigun and bounce of walls and stuff, there's much more thought involved, and teams that stress strength often loose, but, when it comes down to its core, NS Classic is just as much team DM as Combat. Combat == NS without placeable structures, and with EXP.

CacoCola · February 2004

YAh I didn't know if you still played NS/that you lurked the NS boards

ok here's my view from what I've gotten so far:

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>- Alien lifeforms untied from hives. So you can now go fade or onos with just one hive.
- "Hitbox" bug fixed. Now when you shoot at an alien, you actually hit what you see.
- Generally much cheaper marine stuff. HA/JPs/HMGs 15, Shotties 10, Arms Lab 20, and so on.
- Gorge no longer gets bigger share of res.
- You get 1-3 res for killing an enemy.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

-Sucks...badly, no strategy or point to getting the other hives now cept to last longer/spread out.
-Awesome, I never met an alien I couldn't kill, though....now, ducking marines.....
-Lame, so what is it now? Just spam shotties at the start or what?
-Kinda lame too, hard to build a hive with 2 resources
-I dunno, good for aliens I guess, lame for marines. 10 Marines, all killing an alien zerg fest (10 skulks in beginning match) 30 resources right there, 3 shotties right off the bat.

Guess I'll have to play it again to get a better impression

Snidely · February 2004

Yeah, it's a bit unfair to judge it solely on what I said, as there are loads of tweaks under the bonnet - stuff like the alien res cycle being every 4 seconds instead of 6 (I think it was 6 in 1.00-1.04). Also, aliens get better armour per hive. And while marines can get lots of equipment off the bat, my 3.0 experience so far is that it's roughly equal to alien tech. Exceptions are when marines deny aliens second hive, in which case they're screwed, or when marines have turtled up long enough to break the siege and wipe out the aliens.

Trixalope · February 2004

Hives are tied to the aliens in that they increase the armor absorbtion rate.

And yes, you'd really have to play the game to understand what's so great about it. Lerk flight, Focus, Combat/Classic smart servers, etc.

Maj_Mistake · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caco-Cola @ Feb 11 2004, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> YAh I didn't know if you still played NS/that you lurked the NS boards

ok here's my view from what I've gotten so far:

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>- Alien lifeforms untied from hives. So you can now go fade or onos with just one hive.
- "Hitbox" bug fixed. Now when you shoot at an alien, you actually hit what you see.
- Generally much cheaper marine stuff. HA/JPs/HMGs 15, Shotties 10, Arms Lab 20, and so on.
- Gorge no longer gets bigger share of res.
- You get 1-3 res for killing an enemy.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

-Sucks...badly, no strategy or point to getting the other hives now cept to last longer/spread out.
-Awesome, I never met an alien I couldn't kill, though....now, ducking marines.....
-Lame, so what is it now? Just spam shotties at the start or what?
-Kinda lame too, hard to build a hive with 2 resources
-I dunno, good for aliens I guess, lame for marines. 10 Marines, all killing an alien zerg fest (10 skulks in beginning match) 30 resources right there, 3 shotties right off the bat.

Guess I'll have to play it again to get a better impression  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
-You still need extra hives to unlock slots 3 and 4, and to increase armor absorption. Some abilities really are key - Stomp for Onos at 2nd hive for example.
-I don't think there's a problem with ducking marines now, I kill lots in vents. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
-Spamming shotties at the start needs to be followed through with a hive rush, and it's not guaranteed to win. Skulks with their fixed hitboxes are a little harder to hit, though they do have slightly less armor. Unupgraded marines will still die in 2 bites, shotgun or not.
-Hives are much cheaper now, only 40 res. With every alien starting at 25 res, it's normal for skulks to go gorge at a node, plant an RT, then go back to skulk. So gorges still get plenty of res to get the job done, but without penalising the other aliens.
-The RfK can be a problem, but not quite like you described. Most games are 8v8 rather than 10v10, so that's only 8 skulks, and at least one will be a gorge anyway, so 7, plus the average RfK is 2, so that's going to be about 14 res. Bear in mind any kills made by the aliens contribute to fade or Onos (which is only 75 res now). RfK is usually only a problem in the endgame, if you have marines locked down in MS with only one RT, they can sometimes survive on RfK, tech up and send out a heavy train.

Yes I think you will have to play it. And try out the new lerk flight.

BizZy_9mm_Messiah · February 2004

Onos doesn't have paralysis anymore. Lerk now has a new flight and it only has bite now, no more spikes. Umbra is ranged now, both umbra and spores have a new graphic now, Offense chambers don't shoot out green acid like they used to, they shoot out spikes and are highly accurate. Turrets are like half the height they used to be and are a lot more cheaper and effective. You can electrify resource towers and turret factories. There is a lot more than that to, check out the changelogs.

So, What All Has Changed?

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