Armor Effectivness Increases With # Of Hives

BugBrainBugBrain Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16279Members
in Kharaa Strategy
<div class="IPBDescription">Where was this ever mentioned.</div> According to the new damage simulator (link can be found in Gen. Discussion), the armor of a kharaa unit increases with the # of hives up. This is entirely seperate from the DC upgrade Carapace. This is not mentioned in the new manual or any changelog I have seen. Just thought I'd put this out to see if I am way behind on things or if other people were oblivious as well. I'd feel pretty dumb if this was common knowledge.

BTW, yet another reason to go MC/SC first, DC second <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
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Comments

  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <span style='color:white'>Artificial de-bumping due to forum time/date problem, please ignore this post</span>
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  • kiwikiwi Join Date: 2003-09-13 Member: 20803Members
    ok ignoring the post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->


    its like this. you have 300 hp 250 armor... someone shoots a cheese ball at you, it does 100 dmg. with 1 hive the 250 armor would take 70% of the dmg, and the hp 30%. so you would be left with 270 hp, 180 amor. at 3 hives the armor takes 90% and the hp only 10%. the same 100 dmg would leave you with 290 hp 160 armor.
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  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    edited February 2004
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60060&hl=3\.0+changelog' target='_blank'>3.0g changelog</a>.
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Changed alien armor value from 1.6, 2, 2.4 to 2, 2.5, 3 (this will help late-game fade and onos considerably without boosting him too much in Combat) This is HUGE. Absolutely huge.
    O Increased alien armor absorption with more hives, to make sure there is never armor left over (armor takes 70% of damage at hive 1, 80% at hive 2, 90% t hive 3, used to be 70% for all)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The amount of armor doesn't increase, just the effectiveness of each point of armor.
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  • BizZy_9mm_MessiahBizZy_9mm_Messiah Old School Member Join Date: 2003-07-25 Member: 18411Members, Constellation
    edited February 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Feb 8 2004, 06:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Feb 8 2004, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60060&hl=3\.0+changelog' target='_blank'>3.0g changelog</a>.
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Changed alien armor value from 1.6, 2, 2.4 to 2, 2.5, 3 (this will help late-game fade and onos considerably without boosting him too much in Combat) This is HUGE. Absolutely huge.
    O Increased alien armor absorption with more hives, to make sure there is never armor left over (armor takes 70% of damage at hive 1, 80% at hive 2, 90% t hive 3, used to be 70% for all)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The amount of armor doesn't increase, just the effectiveness of each point of armor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So what your saying is I could have Level 3 Carapace with one hive, but if I had the exact same with 3 hives, it's more effective? How? Does it take more hits? Does the dmg to you get sucked up more by armor? Explain!

    Edit - Ok never mind, just read the changelog.
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  • ZdrozZZdrozZ Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12158Members, Constellation
    The bad side effect is that regeneration get's less useful with more hives because it regenerates health first.
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  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    edited February 2004
    The last two posts both have it wrong. Let's say you have 300/250, and that cheese ball does 100 damage. At one hive, 70% goes to armor and 30% to health. So, you lose 30 points of health. However, you lose 70/2 (70 divided by 2) points of armor, or 35 points of armor. With 2 hives, 80% goes to armor, so you lose 20 points of health, and 80/2.5 = 32 points of armor. At 3 hives, it is 90% to armor, so you lose 10 health and 90/3 = 30 points of armor. This is because armor is worth 2 points of health at 1 hive, 2.5 at 2 hives, and 3 points at 3 hives.

    So, your total loss is 30/35 at 1 hive, 20/32 at 2 hives, and 10/30 at 3 hives.

    In addition, regen gets more beneficial with more hives. You lose less health, so it heals up quicker. Also, when 30 points of armor is healed, that is healing the equivalent of 60 hp with one hive, but 90 hp with 3 hives, so it becomes better.

    Edit: spelling
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  • BasinxBasinx Join Date: 2004-01-16 Member: 25370Members
    What if you had 2000 armor would you live forever
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  • d0omied0omie Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13877Members
    This change got added in quietly!

    The manual should be updated to have what actually happens now in it, it still has babblers in it!
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  • a_civiliana_civilian Likes seeing numbers Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
    <!--QuoteBegin-d0omie+Feb 10 2004, 06:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (d0omie @ Feb 10 2004, 06:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The manual should be updated to have what actually happens now in it, it still has babblers in it!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual_version_2/Natural_Selection_Manual_Framed.html' target='_blank'>Natural Selection v3.0 Manual</a> (A link to it can be found on the downloads page.)
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  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Basinx+Feb 10 2004, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Basinx @ Feb 10 2004, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What if you had 2000 armor would you live forever <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You still lose some health, so even if you have infinite armor, you will die eventually if you don't regain some health.
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  • d0omied0omie Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13877Members
    dosen't seem to mention it in the 3.0 manual either... but I only skim read it.
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  • BizZy_9mm_MessiahBizZy_9mm_Messiah Old School Member Join Date: 2003-07-25 Member: 18411Members, Constellation
    It should be in the changelog, I remember seeing it through a link.
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Feb 11 2004, 06:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Feb 11 2004, 06:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Basinx+Feb 10 2004, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Basinx @ Feb 10 2004, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What if you had 2000 armor would you live forever <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You still lose some health, so even if you have infinite armor, you will die eventually if you don't regain some health. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    mmmmm, 1.0x carapace bug...
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  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    carapace no longer increases armour effectiveness which means its use is rather limited and almost exclusively defensive.
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  • StarludeStarlude Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20576Members
    Summary: onos (no cara, HP equivs) 1 hive: 1900 2 hives: 2200 3 hives: 2500
    onos (cara3, HP equivs) 1 hive: 2200 2 hives: 2575 3 hives: 2950

    Number of level 0 LMG bullets absorbs by cara (if gotten, per hive): 1 hive: 30, 2 hives: 38, 3 hives: 45

    cara really isn't that significant anymore...
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  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    Cara isn't as broken as it was in 1.04 (due to rounding of health), but it is still quite useful. Basically, cara lets you stay in the battle longer, while regen means that you spend less time recovering between battles. For an onos, regen is almost always the better choice, but for fades it really depends on what you plan to do (that is my opinion, anyway).
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