F4ing, Will It Be Addressed
tazz
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4877Members
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4877Members
The biggest problem that i find with natural selection is bloody f4ers and stackers, they can completly ruin a game.
games start up as 12vs10(not all), and whenever there is a hint of defeat the teams goto 13vs8.
mind you Combat has stopped this considerably.
i was wondering if there was anything in development to help calm this sort of action. i have noticed a servers running a couple of different plugins that help prevent this from happening(warning to even the teams or game will end).
the other day i convinced my team to not f4 when all seemed lost. we had 1 rt and 1 hive, rines had everything else. We eventually won, in fact slaughtered would be a more correct term, through a luckly ono and rambo rines.
that game made it all the more worth while to play ns and im ever searching for that same game, but this will never happen if we keep having games end due to f4ers.
i know the problems that we had in the old days with 15 vs 5 games and it was really crap for the smaller team.
basically what im asking is: will there ever be a fix to make the games actually end?
games start up as 12vs10(not all), and whenever there is a hint of defeat the teams goto 13vs8.
mind you Combat has stopped this considerably.
i was wondering if there was anything in development to help calm this sort of action. i have noticed a servers running a couple of different plugins that help prevent this from happening(warning to even the teams or game will end).
the other day i convinced my team to not f4 when all seemed lost. we had 1 rt and 1 hive, rines had everything else. We eventually won, in fact slaughtered would be a more correct term, through a luckly ono and rambo rines.
that game made it all the more worth while to play ns and im ever searching for that same game, but this will never happen if we keep having games end due to f4ers.
i know the problems that we had in the old days with 15 vs 5 games and it was really crap for the smaller team.
basically what im asking is: will there ever be a fix to make the games actually end?
Comments
damn i hate those f4ers, scum of the gaming fields.
Second, it's not always bad. For example, if the marines are winning but dragging it out, or the aliens are camping the portals, it's time to F4.
I'd go with Coil, it's all about the server (and players). That and biatchin at them F4ers until their ears bleed.
/me remembers the number of games that came down to skulks throwing them selfs agains the wall of turrets simply b/c rines refused to end the game.
Theres nothing bad in surrendering.
Earlier today I played one of the best games of NS:classic I've had in months. Both sides fought valiantly, with perhaps seven or eight hives falling and being rebuilt, both teams going through a boatload of onos/HA, and a total gametime of a little over two hours. In the end, the marine team(which I was a part of) had lost, having our final assault consist of a dual phase gate rush on the aliens two hives (we had just lost the third hive, for the second time in the game, aliens hadn't rebuilt it yet), we had two of the aliens hives down and the third at 19% when all our marines had died, and a base rush of 4-5 onos had taken out our buildings. ...I owe this great experience to the admin who autoassigned everyone as soon as the map loaded.
The only solution to stacking is some sort of mandatory autoassign system. Though it seems this is more of an issue for server ops to deal with rather than the development team. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<i>mp_autoconcede 8</i>
<i>admin_ssay Lamequiters will be banned at sight!</i>
That's what I do.
I'v heard of some server-plugin that allows an admin to force players to go random if they are in the readyroom. Would be good against **** that refuses to join because of <i>mp_limitteams 1</i> or something.
Namron's methods fall in line with ours. F4'ing is banned, if enough people quit to make the team unbalanced the game doesn't end and more can join to fill the teams out. Teamswitching meets an equally tough reaction unless its to balance teams after the inevitable quiters.
So Tazz, just take a look around, there are hundreds of servers there is bound to be one that runs the rules you'd like to see.
On the other hand when an admin see's people having a 'mothers-meeting' in the readyroom while a game struggles on 3v3 hitting a key bound to admin_rndom is a good way of giving them a kick in the right direction.
People F4 for 4 basic reasons that I can think of.
1. They believe the game is lost and there is nothing they can do about it.
2. The game IS lost, the enemy has them pinned down in a little room as is standing over them picking them off for cheap frags.
3. They disagree with the dropped structure or commanders choice of tactic
4. They want to go and do something else but dont want to lose their slot on an otherwise full server.
My views on these:-
<b>Issue 1,</b> imo bad sportsmanship. Take the loss and let your opponents enjoy their victory. Some have argued that in other sports it is good sportsmanship to admit defeat and conceed. Every good server should have a set of rules and the server stance on F4 concession should be made clear.
<b>Issue 2,</b> also bad sportmanship. This would also result in firm punishment on our servers. It tends to be done by people who want to artificialy raise their stats or end score and generally these people are inconciderate and/or immature. We dont often see this kind of behaviour on NTFM, luckily.
<b>Issue 3,</b> Again this is an issue of bad sportsmanship. You play the hand you are dealt. You make the best of it. There isn't a single 1st structure that causes instant failure and only a few moves the commander can make to unintentionally ruin the marines chances. Players should remeber they are there to play a game. I'm not talking about PCW's on public servers you will win some and lose some but the really important thing is that you played.
<b>Issue 4, </b>Inconsiderate ******. Ban.
So basically it comes down to the player, not the game. Unless the game forces the conditions. at the moment games are fast and full of unexpected comebacks. Unexpected comebacks are great but if your team F4's when they dont expect to comeback then they wont, will they?
Very much agreed. Horror rounds of Marine ultra turtling and spawncamping gloating aliens can do much more to the detriment of a game than some people giving up hope and/or becoming frustrated.
Theres nothing bad in surrendering.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, surrendering is a total valid option to a long end-game, where comebacks cannot be made. In all RTSes it is a pretty common option to leave when you feel you have lost, so why not in NS?
<i>mp_autoconcede 8</i>
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What does that command do?
Simple as that.
my config is read-only/write protected
won't work on me!
I hope it won't.
you should win the game for the other team (ones being pinned down) and kick all the losers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
whats the admin command to make a team win or lose?
This all comes down to one thing: giving the average player a reason (want) to lose a game for XX mins. after the victory has been won.
Apparently, the system in place does not work for the losing team. So the "giving the other team their cake" reason you guys have just does not cut it.
Something new will have to be INTRODUCED in to the game if you want people to spend their time losing, taking F4 away wont help.
Any of you Die Hards (pun!) want to give any suggestion for the masses to lose?
E.g. I was playing on a 16 player server, classic, the other day. I was aliens, and the game was fairly even. One guy from our team left, a couple of minutes later a new guy joins the server. It's 8 marines against 7 aliens. The server has a limit of 16 players. He joins marines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In the end we didn't even have to F4, one of the guys on our team just simply quit and the game ended. We had been asking to balance teams for 5 minutes, and told the marines the game would end if nobody moved over. After the game finished, every marine, practically in unison, went "WTH?"
For waiting reasons?
I mean the time I'm spending protesting in the RR is lost energy for my team believe it or not.
Of course giving up is legal and in the courts you will win with it, but hey we are playing games! When I play games against someone else, I wont give up because my opponent is better than me and i expect the same from my enemy.
So tell me whats so funny about F4ing?
Anyways, the bottom line is this: find a server with good admins who keep a tight watch on the game and lamers. There are much worse admins than me, trust me.
Stacking is obviously one of these major sources of frustration, though it's also caused by frustration (playing aliens and feeling you just die and ide and die against turrets or a large and well coordinated marine team). Because the two teams are so different and balance is so hard, team balance is RELALY important.
And the fact is, it's going to be a weight around the neck of NS until more drastic team balancing measures are made the _default_ mode. A very few servers run a mod which auto-balances teams. Great. Just make it the default in regular NS.
I would even favor auto-handicap for (2+) unbalances (WITH NOTICES about what's going on and why and how to remedy it). Marines build slower, or aliens gestate longer, or something. Something that would actually encourage switches rather than just nagging about it, which is a total waste of everone's time.