What Are Your Feelings About Gls In Combat?
DoL_Thunder
Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23152Members
Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23152Members
Does anyone else thinks GLs are too powerful?
I think their splash radius and damage are too big for the cost of 1 point.
Considering that theres no point on getting extra weapon upgrades if you get a GL (mostly because the upgrades won't make you kill more with less shots fired, or at least it doesn't seem to) the GLer just saves 1 or 2 level points that a shotgunner or a HMGer would spend on weapon upgrades to kill faster. This usually gives them a lvl 3 armor and resupply upgrades.
I know GLers on foot are easy to kill, or at least when they are reloading; since most combat maps have small rooms, they just shoot grenades at the walls and kill 1-2 skulks but don't die in the process. Its not cool either to see a HA Train moving towards the hive with grenades on their feet, because they don't deal friendly fire and gives the GLer friends an aura of invulnerability to any alien with less than 300 hitpoints.
However, the worse comes at end game, when GLers get Jetpack and Resupply. What happened to heavy weapons slowing down jetpackers? They are too mobile now, which makes them too hard to hit, and if you do hit them, resupply gives 50 life instantly back to them. If they are hit once every 5 seconds, resupply keeps healing them. How many times did you see an alien rush a base with 3-4 marines and chomp off 30% of the Command Console health? And when was the last time you saw a GL+JP+Resupply deal over 30% to a hive with 3-4 skulks chasing him? While its not common to see that, its not rare either on the servers I play. Most of the time the splash damage from the grenades will kill the skulks chasing him, meaning he gets another 10 seconds of free shooting. Aliens do not have any area-of-effect weapon with such destructive power. Not even close.
I suggest some drastical changes for GLs. First, make it deal armor-only friendly damage. Even if marines armor drops to 0, grenades shouldn't do any damage to their hitpoints (prevents team killing) however it makes easier for aliens to kill marines being "protected" by grenades their teammate is shooting from across the room at their feet.
Second, GL should make jetpackers heavy again, decreasing their air speed and impulse. Umbra already has no effect on GLs, and acid rockets or spores can't deal much more damage than a resupply heals every 5 seconds.
I think their splash radius and damage are too big for the cost of 1 point.
Considering that theres no point on getting extra weapon upgrades if you get a GL (mostly because the upgrades won't make you kill more with less shots fired, or at least it doesn't seem to) the GLer just saves 1 or 2 level points that a shotgunner or a HMGer would spend on weapon upgrades to kill faster. This usually gives them a lvl 3 armor and resupply upgrades.
I know GLers on foot are easy to kill, or at least when they are reloading; since most combat maps have small rooms, they just shoot grenades at the walls and kill 1-2 skulks but don't die in the process. Its not cool either to see a HA Train moving towards the hive with grenades on their feet, because they don't deal friendly fire and gives the GLer friends an aura of invulnerability to any alien with less than 300 hitpoints.
However, the worse comes at end game, when GLers get Jetpack and Resupply. What happened to heavy weapons slowing down jetpackers? They are too mobile now, which makes them too hard to hit, and if you do hit them, resupply gives 50 life instantly back to them. If they are hit once every 5 seconds, resupply keeps healing them. How many times did you see an alien rush a base with 3-4 marines and chomp off 30% of the Command Console health? And when was the last time you saw a GL+JP+Resupply deal over 30% to a hive with 3-4 skulks chasing him? While its not common to see that, its not rare either on the servers I play. Most of the time the splash damage from the grenades will kill the skulks chasing him, meaning he gets another 10 seconds of free shooting. Aliens do not have any area-of-effect weapon with such destructive power. Not even close.
I suggest some drastical changes for GLs. First, make it deal armor-only friendly damage. Even if marines armor drops to 0, grenades shouldn't do any damage to their hitpoints (prevents team killing) however it makes easier for aliens to kill marines being "protected" by grenades their teammate is shooting from across the room at their feet.
Second, GL should make jetpackers heavy again, decreasing their air speed and impulse. Umbra already has no effect on GLs, and acid rockets or spores can't deal much more damage than a resupply heals every 5 seconds.
Comments
It is the only weapon that can kill a whole crowd of skulks at once. You can get it at level 4. There is no way a level 4 or so skulk can survive a volley of grenades, even if they aren't anywhere close.
A GL can't even be used for its real purpose in combat: killing structures. Sure, you can shoot the hive, but it's not like you can't just run in there and use another weapon. There aren't any OC/DC/etc. formations to destroy.
How about we drop the GL and just use hand grenades? Maybe even make hand grenades free with level 3 weapons or something, because they're pretty well balanced (or certainly not overpowered, at least).
As Thunder mentioned the reason they are so overpowerful is the fact that they come in early and a jp guy can have one + supply. Maybe the cost should be increased by one or two point?
I had a lot of fun with it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As an avid GL spammer the best change i can suggest is upping the GL damage dealt to the GLer himself.
JP + resupply has always be a problem, and it looks like it always will be.
I'd love to see health and ammo drop just behind the marine, easy for a foot marine to pick up, a little harder for a JPer - but not impossisble
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61163' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=61163</a>
[EDIT]
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, but instead of GLs costing more, maybe the devs should reorganize the tech tree and move GL so lvl 3 weapons upgrade are a prerequisite.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So wait, they would now get uber nades for 1 point less total cost?
Current way to get lvl 3 nades:
wep. 1, shotty, GL, wep. 2, wep. 3: total of 5 points
Your way to get lvl 3 nades:
wep. 1, wep. 2, wep. 3, GL: total of 4 points
Just makes things worse
But, as everyone is saying, when the bug is fixed and the nades do more damage to the wielder I think things will be fine (/me fires nades at his feet for fun).
Edit: Does catalyst not affect GL reloading? Or is there a bug involved?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, but instead of GLs costing more, maybe the devs should reorganize the tech tree and move GL so lvl 3 weapons upgrade are a prerequisite.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So wait, they would now get uber nades for 1 point less total cost?
Current way to get lvl 3 nades:
wep. 1, shotty, GL, wep. 2, wep. 3: total of 5 points
Your way to get lvl 3 nades:
wep. 1, wep. 2, wep. 3, GL: total of 4 points
Just makes things worse <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, not. Yes, the grenades would deal more damage, but still would require the same number of grenades to kill an alien, unless you are already injuried.
What happens on Beta2:
Lvl 2 -> Damage 1
Lvl 3 -> Shotgun
Lvl 4 -> GL
Lvl 5 -> Armor 1
Lvl 6 -> Armor 2
Lvl 7 -> Save
Lvl 8 -> Jetpack
Lvl 9 -> Resupply
Lvl 10 -> Free Upgrade
What would happen with my suggestion:
Lvl 2 -> Damage 1
Lvl 3 -> Damage 2 (marine keeps the LMG, which means he will not kill as much as a shotgunner)
Lvl 4 -> Damage 3 (again, he keeps the lmg)
Lvl 5 -> GL (1 level later, still dying from 2 bites / 1 focused)
Lvl 6 -> Armor 1
Lvl 7 -> Armor 2
Lvl 8 -> Save
Lvl 9 -> Jetpack (coming one level later)
Lvl 10 -> Resupply (no extra upgrades)
Reasom why lvl 1 GL is just as dangerous as a lvl 3 GL:
Damage increases from 137 to 161 per grenade. What alien classes die from 2 lvl 3 grenade shots but survive 2 lvl 1 grenades?
Which means: Aliens still take the same number of grenades to die, unless they are injuried before meeting the GLer. What good are upgrades if you need the same number of rounds to kill than without?
Also, the new build means flying GLers can't weld the CC, armory, lay down mines, or purcharse scan, they would be only good for killing and nothing else.
I definetely think the splash damage should be reduced because you can literally be half way across a marine base and still get damaged
the damage I think is fine
SUGGESTION: Okay, so lets imagine a scene for a minute... Aliens are rushing and those pesky skulks are targeting you. You have a GL. What do you do? EASY! Aim at your feet <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> its like a wall of fire taht if the skulks get too near they die
those are my main complaints
So to recap, make the splash damage range smaller and make it always do FF on rines (or maybe a server cvar like mp_grenadeff 1/0). I think that it being one point is fine if the above changes are made. Otherwise Flayra and Co. it wouldnt hurt to try 2 points <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*edit* Swiftspear, imagine when you have a GL and an HMG together... a GL can easily hold off aliens and if you have 1 GL and 1 HMG its deadly. Even 2 GLers are deadly if they swtich off