Making A Basic Ns Map

SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
It'd be real nice if the pros could write a quick tutorial on how to make a super-basic NS map, assuming whoever is reading is familiar enough with hammer.

A beginner room with 'join marines' and 'join aliens' areas.

A large 'play room' which has two or three hives, a name for the room, a res nozzle, a comm chair, and a couple spawn points for each area.

Would help immensely. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I finally got my map to compile... and I have no idea what the hell I'm supposed to do now. I can't even figure out how to make the map a default brightness.

Comments

  • esunaesuna Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-SuperTeflon+Jan 30 2004, 06:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Jan 30 2004, 06:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It'd be real nice if the pros could write a quick tutorial on how to make a super-basic NS map, assuming whoever is reading is familiar enough with hammer.

    A beginner room with 'join marines' and 'join aliens' areas.

    A large 'play room' which has two or three hives, a name for the room, a res nozzle, a comm chair, and a couple spawn points for each area.

    Would help immensely. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I finally got my map to compile... and I have no idea what the hell I'm supposed to do now. I can't even figure out how to make the map a default brightness. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There's no such thing as an "NS" map really, it's exactly the same as mapping for DOD, CS, TFC, S&I, RC2... hell, any Half-Life mod at all. The only differences are the textures, a handful of entities and the general feel of the map, the basic principals are identical.

    So i'd recommend you head over to <a href='http://www.snarkpit.com/' target='_blank'>snarkpit.com</a> and take a look at their tutorials. Just remember, it doesn't matter what mod they're supposed to be for, the principals of mapping are identical.
  • MasterMikeMasterMike Join Date: 2004-01-30 Member: 25748Members
    edited January 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-esuna+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There's no such thing as an "NS" map really, it's exactly the same as mapping for DOD, CS, TFC, S&I, RC2... hell, any Half-Life mod at all. The only differences are the textures, a handful of entities and the general feel of the map, the basic principals are identical.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Even so, take this into consideration: Making the map may be exactly the same, however the design is completely different. DMC maps would play horrible as NS maps, as they are wide open, and spaced. NS maps are more enclosed, and tight. I don't exactly know if SuperTeflon was asking for help with design, or the physical creation.

    -MasterMike
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    edited January 2004
    Don't worry about design <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> I can handle that. I just flip through my entity list and found team_hive... okay yeah woopie I can make a hive. However, how the hell do I make a 'join team one' and 'join team two' readyroom? Team-centric spawnpoints? Info_player_starts just put me 'neutral' (like in readyroom) so I don't see how those would work. Or does it work by proximity? The nearest 'X' spawnpoints to the hive are alien spawnpoints?


    Also, I added a resource nozzle, but it comes with a marine RT already on it...
  • MasterMikeMasterMike Join Date: 2004-01-30 Member: 25748Members
    edited January 2004
    Alright, this will be my little runthru:

    1: Make an entitiy in the readyroom. Select "info_player_start" from the list. You need to make at least 32 of these.
    2: Make a brush in the readyroom where the players will walk into to join a team. Right click the brush and goto Tie to Entity. Select "info_join_team" from the list, and specify what team you'd like this to take you to.
    3: Do this again for the other team, and obviously change the Team value
    4: Make an entity in the Marine Start, and select "info_team_start" and select the corresponding Team value. You need to make at least 16 of these.
    5: Do this again for the Alien spawn. You need to make at least 16 of these.

    After doing all this, you have a working readyroom as well as marine, alien, and readyroom spawns.

    Hope this help! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    -MasterMike
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    Okay, at the info_join_team... where do I tell it what team to join? That's what I don't get, I have these big fields with NOTHING in them, how do I know what's allowed / not allowed?
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    Okay I chose the entity again and it gave me a dropdown box this time... first time it gave me nothing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • MasterMikeMasterMike Join Date: 2004-01-30 Member: 25748Members
    So therefore you did figuare it out? Or are you still uncertain to how it works?
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    edited January 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-MasterMike+Jan 30 2004, 12:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MasterMike @ Jan 30 2004, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So therefore you did figuare it out? Or are you still uncertain to how it works? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I figured out the join team stuff... I'm sorta experimenting with my lighting options now.

    Is there a way to set the whole map a certain brightness? I found something to that effect under 'map properties', but I set it to like 300 and noticed nothing. Or do I always have to use texture and entities?

    Now for the super-nuubish question: Complex arcitechture, like... a broken pipe. I can make regular pipes with the 'prefab' cylinder. But how would I end it with a jaggedy pointy thing? Basically, how do I make complex arcitechture? I played with the vertex tool a bit, have no idea what the clipping tool does... though I did find out that the 'carve' tool exponentially increase the number of planes. Is there a way to circumvent that? Say I wanted to make... well, a vent.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2004
    When you compile a map and there are no light entities or light emiting textures in the map. The compiler changes the brightness to fullbright.

    If you want to change the overal brighness just add only one light (more can be added later on) then change in the map properties the default brightness to something like 60 to 120. If you have done this the brightness where there are no lights will be 60 to 120 (just experiment with these settings).
    The lighting (hlrad) compile time will be very fast so you can experiment with it to see the ingame result.

    You can also use different value but I think since natural-selection is dependant on athmosphere you should go any higher then 120 default light level.

    Once you have the default lighting you want add some more lights and put an <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html#env_gamma' target='_blank'>env_gamma</a> in the map, this entity will add contrast to you map without makeing the ingame gamma brighter. For example red wil be more red blue more blue etc.

    I also have a standart map downloaded somewhere in the ns community (dunno url) with all the basic stuff in it for ns.
    -read room + spawns and join teams
    - hive start
    - marine start
    - 2 types of welding spots
    - lift
    - resource nodes

    I'll put it up in the edit once I find the link

    [edit]
    Written by ChromeAngel:

    Information on how to build a basic ns map
    <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/mappingguide/appendix7.htm' target='_blank'>Quick Start Guide to Mapping for Natural Selection </a>

    <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/mappingguide/ns_sample.zip' target='_blank'>Sample map download</a>
    [/edit]

    Hehe also the next post has the info above, submited during my edit.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    It has been made by the great ChromeAngel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    indeed tseepra <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    GreetzZz Kouji San
  • tseepratseepra Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10530Members
    It has been made by the great ChromeAngel : <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/mappingguide/appendix7.htm' target='_blank'>http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/mappingguide/appendix7.htm</a>
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    edited January 2004
    OMG i love you all <3

    Okay, problem, the map is missing it's .wads, gives me a ton of bizarre errors.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2004
    which wads is it missing? as far as I know ... and I know <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> its only using the ns.wad and "zhl.wad perhaps"

    and what errors would be helpfull <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Kouji San+Jan 30 2004, 02:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kouji San @ Jan 30 2004, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> which wads is it missing?

    and what errors would be helpfull <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Okay so it's not a bizarre error. But it's referencing the .wads from Chrome Angel's computer, and I don't know how to change the map to look for .wads elsewhere. I can change HAMMER .wads but that's not the problem.


    Error: Could not open wad file \fps\hl\ns104\mapproject2.wad
    Error: Could not find WAD file
    Description: The compile tools could not locate a wad file that the map was referencing.
    Howto Fix: Make sure the wad's listed in the level editor actually all exist

    Error: Could not open wad file \fps\hl\ns104\ns.wad
    Error: Could not open wad file \fps\hl\valve\halflife.wad
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2004
    those are the compiling errors...

    Just change under tools --> options. Then textures and remove any wads in this list of textures and add you own directory to the ns.wad and the half-life.wad.
    then compile again

    That should fix it.

    [edit] remember to restart hammer[/edit]
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    edited January 2004
    Speaking of wads, where the hell do I find the AAATRIGGER? I remember some oldy moldy hl.wad or valve.wad, but it's AWOL in steam now...
  • watch_me_diewatch_me_die Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8107Members
    There's no need to use AAATrigger any more, use NULL instead.
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    edited January 2004
    Okay, now another question... see this picture. There's a grating (the blue) with a small gap underneath where you have the grey floor. As you can see, the walls are one solid brush up and down. How can I go in and split the wall into two different walls (one above and one below the grating) so I can have two different textures? Is there an easy way to do it? Or do I actually have to shape and make new brushes?

    Also, what designates the height of the commander overview?
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2004
    <b>The walls:</b>
    Select the 2 walls in question, then select the Clipping tool [SHIFT+X] and draw a line across walls where you want them to be split. After you've done this click the Clipping tool again (probably 2 times). When you see a white line overlay on the entire walls press enter so it keeps both sides of the clip line and there you have it (a top wall and a bottom wall). Its a cutting tool

    <b>The viewhight:</b>
    Put an info_mapinfo entity in your map and check out its values on viewheight for commander and min map Z

    These value are dependant on you z axis of hammer, to check your values just hold your mous cursor on the front or side view. Now put your cursor above the level (or where you want the viewheight for commander to be) and look at the second value on the status bar behind the @.

    <b>viewheight for commander</b>
    This one must be above the highest ceiling of your map (readyroom not included because it has to be above the viewheight for commander)

    <b>min map Z</b>
    This one must be lower then the lowest floor in your map it draws the black background the commander sees on none map areas

    GreetzZz Kouji San
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    edited January 2004
    <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Error: Entity 0, Brush 2: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture !R25_STAGNANT and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 2: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture !R25_STAGNANT and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 2: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture !R25_STAGNANT and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 3: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture TECKWALL19-BIG and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 3: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture TECKWALL19-BIG and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 3: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture TECKWALL19-BIG and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 3: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture TECKWALL19-BIG and !R25_STAGNANT
    Error: Entity 0, Brush 3: mixed face contents
    ? ? Texture TECKWALL19-BIG and !R25_STAGNANT<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ran the self checker in Hammer, found a problem with vertices, fixed that taboo (concave bad!) now I get that gibberish. Goddd this is hard... I can barely make a stupid pipe with a couple lights on it, how the hell do you guys make those super detailed hallways??! (wahhh)
  • brute_forcebrute_force Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21433Members, Constellation
    edited January 2004
    SuperTeflon, I would recommend you to read ChromeAngel's tutorials. They help alot. Also, mapping isn't something you're gonna learn in a day or two. I've mapped for about a year, and I'm still pretty newbish to it.

    As for those errors, check brush #2 and 3 and see if you can find anything wrong with them.
    It looks like you're trying to mix a water texture and a normal texture though, which I don't think the compiler likes. Change !r25_stagnant, because that is a water texture (indicated by the ! infront of the name).

    edit: grammatical error
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-ShdwStal+Jan 31 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShdwStal @ Jan 31 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SuperTeflon, I would recommend you to read ChromeAngel's tutorials. They help alot. Also, mapping isn't something you're gonna learn in a day or two. I've mapped for about a year, and I'm still pretty newbish to it.

    As for those errors, check brush #2 and 3 and see if you can find anything wrong with them.
    It looks like you're trying to mix a water texture and a normal texture though, which I don't think the compiler likes. Change !r25_stagnant, because that is a water texture (indicated by the ! infront of the name).

    edit: grammatical error <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Oh... damn that easy, I thought it was something to do with a brush clipping through another brush <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> But yes, I had most of the map textured with the water texture because it was an easy contrasting texture.
  • SuperTeflonSuperTeflon Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24893Banned
    Okay, any tips for making complex arcitecture? Example, making a hallway with both walls on the sides bent 'out' in the middle, or making a ceiling have that 'broken up' effect (where different parts are slightly caved in). Or do I have to do a whole lot of annoying vertex work and clipping tool work for that?

    (Oh also, how do I change the... 'amount' that things are adjusted? Even at map grid size 8, rotating a piece of wall makes it 'jump' a lot. I want it to not jump a lot.
  • ChargeCharge Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13144Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-SuperTeflon+Feb 1 2004, 12:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Feb 1 2004, 12:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay, any tips for making complex arcitecture? Example, making a hallway with both walls on the sides bent 'out' in the middle, or making a ceiling have that 'broken up' effect (where different parts are slightly caved in). Or do I have to do a whole lot of annoying vertex work and clipping tool work for that?

    (Oh also, how do I change the... 'amount' that things are adjusted? Even at map grid size 8, rotating a piece of wall makes it 'jump' a lot. I want it to not jump a lot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    carve the shapes in the wall with the clip tool <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DarkATiDarkATi Revelation 22:17 Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17532Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just a quick helpful hint:

    Sometimes even though you discard textures (WADs) from the dialog in VHE the editor still puts them inside your map file. Open it up in a plain text editor and you can see all the WADs that the map file wants to use.

    Example:

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->{
    "classname" "worldspawn"
    "classname" "worldspawn"
    "sounds" "1"
    "MaxRange" "4096"
    "mapversion" "220"
    "skyname" "sand_"
    "mapversion" "220"
    "wad" "\program files\sierra\half-life\valve\halflife.wad;\program files\sierra\half-life\ns\ns.wad;\program files\sierra\half-life\ns\ns_eclipse.wad;\program files\sierra\half-life\ns\ns_lost.wad;\program files\sierra\half-life\ns\ns_tanith.wad;\program files\sierra\half-life\ns\sandman.wad;\program files\sierra\half-life\ns\ns2.wad"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ~ DarkATi
  • CobletCoblet Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25803Members
    edited February 2004
    SuperTeflon, I hate to seem somewhat blunt here, but asking for help on relatively simple things like how to change the rotation amount isn't going to get you anywhere in terms of discovering things through experimentation <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Tools\Options is your friend <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Doobie_DanDoobie_Dan Join Date: 2003-10-23 Member: 21892Members, Constellation
    Also, www.snarkpit.com is your friend... check out the many many excellent tutorials. If you have a question on how to do something, first use the "search" button on there. Then use the search button on the NS newbie mapping forums. Then post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Check out the architecture tutorial, it'll answer your most recent questions and provide some ideas. And remember, it's nearly impossible to do anything without the clipping tool! Make it your friend.
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