Is It Me Or Are Onos Incredibly Imbalanced In 2.0?

Zilea · January 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">Onos chat</div> When vsing aliens, Onos are such a pain to kill with their regeneration and devour, it's almost impossible to beat them without a team all loaded with shotguns or hmgs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>
Shouldn't onos have 350-400 life? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

frostymoose · January 2004

an unexperienced onos is EASY to take down. remember, it costs an alien's ENTIRE resource pool to gestate to onos. it should be worth it and frankly, it probably isn't

coris · January 2004

Onii are weak, you just dont know where to hit them. I have no problems taking down a onos w/ hmg + jp.

gazOzz · January 2004

2.0 Onos is much more weaker than 1.04 Onos...
Considering you are aiming the hitbox (which is as big as the quarter of the body of Onos)... 3 LMG rines or 2 SG rines or a single HMG rine with weapon-up 3 can take out an onos without stomp; if you are not in a really small corridor or room... an additional marine blocking the escape route will make this much more easy...

Zilea · January 2004

maybe i'm just too newb <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

taboofires · January 2004

The devs have known about that issue for a long time. Then they made it worse. Now they're fixing it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

edit: well, they're fixing it so even newbs can shoot the broad side of a barn that is an onos, so there will be no "secret knowledge" type of advantage

BizZy_9mm_Messiah · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gaz_oZz @ Jan 20 2004, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2.0 Onos is much more weaker than 1.04 Onos...
Considering you are aiming the hitbox (which is as big as the quarter of the body of Onos)... 3 LMG rines or 2 SG rines or a single HMG rine with weapon-up 3 can take out an onos without stomp; if you are not in a really small corridor or room... an additional marine blocking the escape route will make this much more easy...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 

I have to disagree with that small corridor comment. It's quite easy to kill a JP'er, he's not going to waste you with HMG Lvl 3 ups unless he's got an aimbot or you are so close to him that he can kiss you. If you are in a big room chase after him, make him waste his JP fuel, then when he hits the ground devour or gore him.

Cereal_KillR · January 2004

Well with stomp a good onos is hard to kill. Without it can be quite easily killed. Note that with stomp even if it is hard to kill, that doesn't mean it's a killing machine. You still need to be careful and don't think that with stomp you can go down a whole long corridor with HMG+HAs on the other end.

BizZy_9mm_Messiah · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Jan 20 2004, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well with stomp a good onos is hard to kill. Without it can be quite easily killed. Note that with stomp even if it is hard to kill, that doesn't mean it's a killing machine. You still need to be careful and don't think that with stomp you can go down a whole long corridor with HMG+HAs on the other end.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 

I barely use stomp and I'm fine. I'm not advising run into a group of angry HA with shotties and HMGs, but one JP/HMG'er isnt that hard to kill, he will be if you lack skill in onos.

Nil_IQ · January 2004

Onos are either overpowered or underpowered depending on the situation.

If all you have are LMGs they are overpowered.

If you have a few shotties and hmgs, it's about even, depending of course on the exact amount of HMGs.

If you have all heavies with hmgs, onos is crap on a stick.

Spazmatic · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you have all heavies with hmgs, onos is crap on a stick. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I'll assume we're talking pubs, because... I'll just assume that.

Remember, when dealing with a <i>group</i>, the onos should have one too. And an onos with stomp, supported by umbra and gorge heal spray, not to mention skulks biting the bejeezus out of the heavies, can kick heavy arse. 8 heavies went down to mwa (an onos with regen adrenal), a lerk, 2 gorges, and 2 skulks. Do the math, that's 8 on 6, and our res cost was lower.

Not saying they're unbalanced, but even a group of heavies can be dealt with if they're slightly below in skill (namely, no jetpack support, and grouped together, though if they're spread out, you can pick off stragglers).

Anyways, I'd say oni are not overpowered in the general case. They can be dealt with, though I'd say that, 1v1, they're scary, even to jetpackers (due to fuel and the insane range of gore and devour). However, I'd say <i>two</i> jetpackers with hmgs could take two oni easy, if they could aim, due to concentrated fire.

Wirhe · January 2004

1 Onos with no defencive upgrades (regen/redemption)

1 Marine with lv 3 LMG

1 Corridor

2 Clips

1 Dead onos

100 Wasted res

CutterJoe · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zilea @ Jan 20 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When vsing aliens, Onos are such a pain to kill with their regeneration and devour, it's almost impossible to beat them without a team all loaded with shotguns or hmgs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>
Shouldn't onos have 350-400 life? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well in 3.0 the onos has 700 life. If you think its hard now wait until 3.0 comes out

/me looks around the room at the rest of the CMs, Vets, and PTs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

rknZ · January 2004

But now with EVERY SINGLE bullet hitting you, HMGs will be the end of any Onos

Redford · January 2004

an LMG marine costs 0 rescources, and at best, needs a total of 240 RP in one time upgrades for max effectiveness.

An onos, on the other hand, needs 106 RP every time a single onos is created. So no, onos are not overpowered - because onos are meant to be killed by HMGs and shotguns - and not LMGs under all but the most dire circumstances.

ViolenceJack · January 2004

on the other hand, experianced/good oni are another story.

Zilea · January 2004

700 HP?! OMG!!!!!

BreakfastSausages · January 2004

It really depends on the size of the game, in a small game a single onos with stomp can easily dominate all the marine bases/nodes/players. In a big game marines have a better chance of ganging up and stopping the onos, and scouting him out so he can't suprise bases and run over them instantly which is sometimes a problem in small games.

(ps: its not even worth talking about onos without d upgrades or stomp )

Maveric · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zilea @ Jan 20 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When vsing aliens, Onos are such a pain to kill with their regeneration and devour, it's almost impossible to beat them without a team all loaded with shotguns or hmgs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>
Shouldn't onos have 350-400 life? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>The onos health in 3.0 is about 700. Armor is somewhere up around ~400, too.

Also, onii are increadably easy to hit now that the hitboxes are fixed.

It was the screwy hitboxes that ma[d]e them so hard to kill in 2.0.</span>

Zilea · January 2004

even if the hitbox is fixed, 700 hp and 400 armor sounds like a lot to choke down, and again, they will be INCREDIBLY imbalanced in a small game of say 4v4

slutcakes · January 2004

The 700 health is easily torn up by several shotguns. A mid to late game onos is easily murdered by leveled up weapons (considering the fact that its impossible to miss these suckers). The saving grace for these oni has been redemption.

CutterJoe · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zilea @ Jan 20 2004, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> even if the hitbox is fixed, 700 hp and 400 armor sounds like a lot to choke down, and again, they will be INCREDIBLY imbalanced in a small game of say 4v4  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yes the numbers are hard to choke down at first but when you see 2-3 oni get slaughtered by 3 hmg'ers or 3-4 sg'ers then you will understand why its not hard to choke down for the rest of us <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Zilea · January 2004

i'm a little ignorant because i don't play as marines or aliens,i'm a commander
and a top notch if you ask anyone that plays in the [TeamHoward], Jiggypuff, or Sons of Metal servers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Crono5 · January 2004

700 hp...

MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> (with Umbra support)

Now, we donce...

P.S. WHEN IS 3.0 COMING OUT!?!? IM GONNA DIE IF I DONT GET IT SOON

a_civilian · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zilea @ Jan 20 2004, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>...700 hp and 400 armor sounds like a lot to choke down...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
A level 0 HMG deals 300 damage per second, and a level 0 shotgun deals 255 damage per second. 700 health and 400 armor really isn't that much.

Zilea · January 2004

300 dmg per second? 255 dmg per second? what are you talking about

Crono5 · January 2004

The way i remember it...

HMGs do 20 damage per bullet at level zero, and the fire about 10 bullets a second... So that's something like 200 damage per second.

Shotguns, point blank, do 160 damage in I shot, and can fire 2 shots/second, so that's about 320.

But then you have to factor in that you're almost never going to have perfect accuracy, and that the Onos is probably going to have some healing action, and will be attacking you.

If your Onos was stock and was just standing in a corridor, it's no problem - I've ramboed and killed some Onoses standing still (or Onoses that started moving too little too late) in extremley low amounts of time with HMG stock. But if I have a Regen Onos digesting a player that's moving and Stomping... I'm not going to get that damage.

700 - 500 sounds like it may make the Onos a little more balanced for when it should be used. I can't remember how many times I got frustrated after nothing but quick deaths where HA/HMG trains are concerned.Even manuvering to the best of my ability, I can't run around a corner and Devour and run back. (Although I just got back from a game and I must've taken out 10+ HA/[HMG/SG] Marines. But it was only because they weren't in a train (4+). And plus, I used Regen, and I pwn with Regen <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> )

EDIT: As far as relating to the first post, that usually happens because the Marines aren't willing to go out and rush the Onos. That's why a lot of Onoses resort to hit 'n run tactics. 2 HMGs (not in line for Stomp ownage) can take out an Onos <b>very</b> quickly.

Zilea · January 2004

agreed, but i must argue with the shotgun theory.
doesn't a shotgun shot shoot every second? meaning every shot takes about 1 second? making 2 shots about 2 seconds, 3 about 3 seconds,etc? i don't think a shotgun shoots twice in 1 second :/

BOBDolol · January 2004

I think it'll take around 1.5 seconds to fire off 2 shotgun shells

RobB · January 2004

Try to use it pistolstyle:
click - click - click
boomchakaboomchakaboom
*splatsonthewall*
<edit: spelling is a bad thing>

Zilea · January 2004

this conversation can't be solved since we aren't the makers of the game and don't regulate the delay after every shot

we need to bring our questions to somebody who knows about this stuff <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'>

Is It Me Or Are Onos Incredibly Imbalanced In 2.0?

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