tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin--nR|NeOn+Jan 13 2004, 06:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (nR|NeOn @ Jan 13 2004, 06:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hi folks i post this because i want that everbody have the same advantage than everbody else who don't know how to even make a good script <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Read what the topic creator stated. He is actually trying to make it more fair for those who does not script, or to help find issues that should be addressed by the creators.
Flaming this thread does not help. Start a "I don't like scripting" thread for that, please.
scripts allow the other person to kill you easier, when on the same level (both not scripting or both scripting) you would own them. this makes people who dont script because of their opinions of it flame people who do. and this is why they are flaming you, thank you and goodnight.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kar-aK+Jan 15 2004, 02:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kar-aK @ Jan 15 2004, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its not just a matter of pressing a button fast. As you probably already know, most players play on WASD. This is all fine, however, not everyone does. I know a large number of players, including myself who use the <b>arrow keys</b> for movment. Now, if you have a glance at the arrow keys, you will immediatly see that there are not as many local keys as there are with WASD. This usually means resorting to certain optomisations. Scripts and binds help with this enormously.
I am extreamly tempted to post my config(s) here. Thowever, i am prevented from doing so by a promise.
What i can do however is list what it include, with a <b>reason as to why it is useful.</b>
<b>Duck bind toggle</b> - Toggles the +duck command to my MOUSE2 - phsically impossible for me to press my jump key without it. (used for strafe jumping)
<b>3x jump bind</b> - This is not a script as most people wrongly presume, it is just an extreamly simple bind. As above i cant press the duck and +jump key together, so this is required.
<b>Leap / Bite</b> - Self explantory, I dont even have lastinv bound as there are no keys for it - go firgure...
There just 3 examples there, i have a few more, but theyre beyond the scope of this post (nothing naughty, ask me in IRC if you're really interested, which i highly doubt...).
Possible replies:
1) Change Keys to WASD? - Sorry i've tried, its just not the same - You would probably have the same response if you were to use my settings. Personal preference...You like tea...i like coffee...
2) You listen 3, there are many keys nearby? - Well dont forget binds are also required for: -) +duck -) +walk -) +jump -) +voicerecord -) A key for Ventrillo Voice Comms (clan games).
That pretty much uses up all the local keys...
So as you can see... Most of the time it has nothing to do with being "1337" as you put it, but a mere aspect of playability. NS requires a lot of keys to be bound, I just hope the Devs realise this as well...
- Kar- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It’s quite depressing really reading how so many people see nothing wrong with scripting. Your leap bite script gives you a blatant advantage over everybody who relies on timing the actions by themselves. I’m sure there’s some sort of Blink Swipe Blink script about as well that turns you into a super Fade.
Your justification about there not being enough keys near the arrows is no excuse. Why don’t you just admit you rely on scripts to compensate for your lack of skill.
I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2004
I'd post my binds and stuff, but in general they are way too customized for me, not many people would be able to use them But here, these are good: <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> //Morph into.. alias skulk "impulse 113" alias gorge "impulse 114" alias lerk "impulse 115" alias fade "impulse 116" alias onos "impulse 117"
//Upgrade alias carapace "impulse 101" alias regen "impulse 102" alias redemption "impulse 103"
alias celerity "impulse 107" alias adrenaline "impulse 108" alias silence "impulse 109"
alias cloaking "impulse 110" alias hivesight "impulse 111" alias scent "impulse 112"
//gorge build alias rt "impulse 90" alias oc "impulse 91" alias dc "impulse 92" alias sc "impulse 93" alias mc "impulse 94" alias hive "impulse 95"
------------------End Of File-------------------
//Admin_chat toggle alias pluschat "admin_messagemode admin_chat; messagemode; bind i minuschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Enabled; developer 0" alias minuschat "admin_nomessagemode; bind i pluschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Disabled; developer 0"
//Admin_csay toggle alias pluscsay "admin_messagemode admin_csay; messagemode; bind o minuscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Enabled; developer 0" alias minuscsay "admin_nomessagemode; bind o pluscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Disabled; developer 0"
//Bind the above to a key, then press it, and anything you type will be in either admin_chat or admin_csay, press the key again to disable it
// Build toggle alias minusbuild "-use; unbind q; bind q plusbuild" alias plusbuild "+use; unbind q; bind q minusbuild" bind q plusbuild //Toggles +use/-use so you don't have to hold a key, makes it easier to chat while building
//RR Toggle alias +enableRR "bind home readyroom; developer 1; echo - Readyroom enabled; developer 0" alias -enableRR "unbind home; developer 1; echo - Readyroom disabled; developer 0;" bind ins +enableRR //Still allows readyroom, but no accidental useage, to use this, hold insert then press home to goto the readyroom
// Kill Toggle alias +killme "bind kp_pgup kill; developer 1; echo + Kill; developer 0" alias -killme "unbind kp_pgup; developer 1; echo - Kill; developer 0" //Same as above, just for kill, I have this bound to kp_uparrow - then you hold that and press kp_pgup to kill yourself
//voice_loopback toggle alias minusloop "voice_loopback 0; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 0; developer 0; bind pgup plusloop" alias plusloop "voice_loopback 1; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 1; developer 0; bind pgup minusloop" bind pgup plusloop //Simply toggles voice_loopback with each press, bound to pgup
------------------------End Of File--------------------------
alias "ex_maxerrordistance" "" alias "-crouch" "" //I was having problems with -crouch not found errors in console hud_fastswitch 1 cl_sidespeed 1000 hlwc volume 25 //Play winamp softly in the background hlwc play <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> None of the above ones give you any sort of advantage, they just simplify common tasks I have a whole different script for when I command, which unbinds all the keys used by commander, so I dont have any problems with them executing commands.. Thats too customized for me to post, it invloves unbinding the hotkey keys, then rebinding them to what they are on my computer Now, someone explain to me why anyone would have a problem with everything I posted above?
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Flash+Jan 15 2004, 04:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flash @ Jan 15 2004, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Where exactly is the automate action and lack of quick thinking in those custom binds?
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Jan 15 2004, 11:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jan 15 2004, 11:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Flash+Jan 15 2004, 04:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flash @ Jan 15 2004, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Where exactly is the automate action and lack of quick thinking in those custom binds?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don`t care about scripts that help you build, evolve, chat ect.. But if it AUTOMATICALLY bunny hops for them, or duck jumps, or automatically switches to their pistol when they run out of ammo, then I think thats lack of skill... I hope Flayra removes the ability to use those kind of cfgs.
If certain scripts such as leap/bite or fade/slash scripts are Flayra approved, they should be included in the next release. i.e release them as configuarble options within the in-game options menu.
Call me a cynic but there doesn't seem to be many people sharing their "fair-play" scripts
I am not real sure how this post ended up here but it interesting to see how the veiws have changed. Most post in vet are pro script and most among other NS players are against it. What you may or may not know is that there are 3 or 4 other topics in the vet forum discussing sripts.
People are arguing that scripts are ok by showing the ones that everyone that play NS has. These ones are perfectly fine and noone is saying they give anyone an unfair advantage. However what most people that are against scripts hate are the leap/focuse bite and blink/swipe scripts. (you can also add bunny hopping and pistol scripts but I don't really care about these) Believe me having a button the switches to the last weapon used is not the same thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--StraitShot+Jan 15 2004, 11:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StraitShot @ Jan 15 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don`t care about scripts that help you build, evolve, chat ect.. But if it AUTOMATICALLY bunny hops for them, or duck jumps, or automatically switches to their pistol when they run out of ammo, then I think thats lack of skill... I hope Flayra removes the ability to use those kind of cfgs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Would you still call it lack of skill if he was able to own you left and right?
<!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Jan 15 2004, 11:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Jan 15 2004, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd post my binds and stuff, but in general they are way too customized for me, not many people would be able to use them But here, these are good: <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> //Morph into.. alias skulk "impulse 113" alias gorge "impulse 114" alias lerk "impulse 115" alias fade "impulse 116" alias onos "impulse 117"
//Upgrade alias carapace "impulse 101" alias regen "impulse 102" alias redemption "impulse 103"
alias celerity "impulse 107" alias adrenaline "impulse 108" alias silence "impulse 109"
alias cloaking "impulse 110" alias hivesight "impulse 111" alias scent "impulse 112"
//gorge build alias rt "impulse 90" alias oc "impulse 91" alias dc "impulse 92" alias sc "impulse 93" alias mc "impulse 94" alias hive "impulse 95"
------------------End Of File-------------------
//Admin_chat toggle alias pluschat "admin_messagemode admin_chat; messagemode; bind i minuschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Enabled; developer 0" alias minuschat "admin_nomessagemode; bind i pluschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Disabled; developer 0"
//Admin_csay toggle alias pluscsay "admin_messagemode admin_csay; messagemode; bind o minuscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Enabled; developer 0" alias minuscsay "admin_nomessagemode; bind o pluscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Disabled; developer 0"
//Bind the above to a key, then press it, and anything you type will be in either admin_chat or admin_csay, press the key again to disable it
// Build toggle alias minusbuild "-use; unbind q; bind q plusbuild" alias plusbuild "+use; unbind q; bind q minusbuild" bind q plusbuild //Toggles +use/-use so you don't have to hold a key, makes it easier to chat while building
//RR Toggle alias +enableRR "bind home readyroom; developer 1; echo - Readyroom enabled; developer 0" alias -enableRR "unbind home; developer 1; echo - Readyroom disabled; developer 0;" bind ins +enableRR //Still allows readyroom, but no accidental useage, to use this, hold insert then press home to goto the readyroom
// Kill Toggle alias +killme "bind kp_pgup kill; developer 1; echo + Kill; developer 0" alias -killme "unbind kp_pgup; developer 1; echo - Kill; developer 0" //Same as above, just for kill, I have this bound to kp_uparrow - then you hold that and press kp_pgup to kill yourself
//voice_loopback toggle alias minusloop "voice_loopback 0; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 0; developer 0; bind pgup plusloop" alias plusloop "voice_loopback 1; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 1; developer 0; bind pgup minusloop" bind pgup plusloop //Simply toggles voice_loopback with each press, bound to pgup
------------------------End Of File--------------------------
alias "ex_maxerrordistance" "" alias "-crouch" "" //I was having problems with -crouch not found errors in console hud_fastswitch 1 cl_sidespeed 1000 hlwc volume 25 //Play winamp softly in the background hlwc play <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> None of the above ones give you any sort of advantage, they just simplify common tasks I have a whole different script for when I command, which unbinds all the keys used by commander, so I dont have any problems with them executing commands.. Thats too customized for me to post, it invloves unbinding the hotkey keys, then rebinding them to what they are on my computer Now, someone explain to me why anyone would have a problem with everything I posted above? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> These I like. I personally have 99.99% of the keys availible to my left and right hands bound out. My keypad is the upgrades/evolutions with every key left of T G and B being bound. /.,m are chambers and a hive, and half my Fkeys are bound to something else I can't remember half the time. Aliases for evolutions are great. I'm going to steal these. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And everyone knows <i>I'm</i> anti scripting..
Edit: There's two ways to "toggle" something. I prefer the keypress changing the alias name.. Like a rope script I made for a Sven Coop fun server:
alias "rope" "ropeon" alias "ropeon" "+rope;alias rope ropeoff;speak engage" alias "ropeoff" "-rope;alias rope ropeon;speak failure"
No rebinding needed. But the "hold this key then press this" is a nice touch. Gotta give my thumbs up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, if you're bored, exec this in console: speak "hgrunt/freeman go! up! my! a ss!"
<!--QuoteBegin--Funkapotamus+Jan 15 2004, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Funkapotamus @ Jan 15 2004, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--StraitShot+Jan 15 2004, 11:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StraitShot @ Jan 15 2004, 11:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don`t care about scripts that help you build, evolve, chat ect.. But if it AUTOMATICALLY bunny hops for them, or duck jumps, or automatically switches to their pistol when they run out of ammo, then I think thats lack of skill... I hope Flayra removes the ability to use those kind of cfgs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would you still call it lack of skill if he was able to own you left and right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol it dosen`t matter if he used a script or not I would still own him(I was ranked #1 on Freaks Unleashed). And If Flayra made it so he couldn`t use a cfg then I wouldn`t call it lack of skill <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only script anyone needs is just for the Radio commands and stuff like I got. I'll Edit this post later to put the link to my clan's forums where I have it posted but yea. Just hold shift and hit a number key and it will do the ingame radio impulse and say a text message (need a medpack! for marine or heal me! for alien ect). All other scripts just anger me cause I dont use any others and people who are using scripts are doin just bout as good as me but without any of the actual skill.
For example the blink swipe stuff. Im a noob fade but Ive got that timing down already and I dont use a lame script for it.
Sorry but its just my opinion that scripts for bunnyhopping and what not just limit a player and lower my respect for them.
Oh and the wait command will be removed in 3.0 so that is gonna be fun to watch a few "good" players I know go down in "skill" real fast.
I also could of remember Flayra saying NS is ment to be played without the console. I hope flayra takes any form of a cfg that would make it easier for someone to pull something off, then some not using a script.
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
So wait, are you now saying that me binding all the alien buildings to the numpad makes me a bad player? And that I should have to go to the popup menu every time I want to build something? That really doesnt make any sense, I want to see the gorge hotkeys built into the game, like the commander ones.
If it’s a choice between eliminating all scripts even the innocuous building/evolving ones, or allowing them all to stay even the blatant combo cheat ones, then sadly they all have to go.
1) Customization Freaks: These people generally swear up and down on how using scripts is not only a good thing, but almost necessary in each one's own personal case. These people also view that the most important thing is not that you have skill or not when you use scripts, but that you CAN use scripts to do whatever you want, whenever you want.
2) Equality Freaks: These people generally swear up and down that most instances of using a script of any sort should not be allowed. The primary argument for this is that, if everyone is given and absolute standard baseline as far as how the game is controlled / played, then personal skill is the only proving factor aside from whatever balance issues there may be in the game. They view that any customization to the game at hand presents the opportunity of gaining unfair advantages and therefore exploiting the game (sometimes referred to as cheating).
I have gripes with both of these views naturally.
1) Customization Freaks: I have to admit that I am a damn good player. Many of these people swear up and down that if the game wasn't customizable to the degree it is then they couldn't be nearly effective as they are due to various reasons. One such argument deals with not having enough keys to bind everything to in any sort of logical / useful manner. I have EVERY command I could ever need in the game bound to a key WITHOUT the use of ANY scripts to combine commands and perform maneuvers such as bhopping manually. While I like the idea of being able to customize things, when applied to a game where other people/competitors are involved i sort of agree with the Equality Freaks to the point that everyone should either be given the exact same set of customizations to play with or have none at all to even the playing field.
2) Equality Freaks: Just as a baseline, no two computers are the same (even if they have the same specs). Not allowing people to customize things like mouse sensitivity and brightness/gamma correction would mean a large majority of people could not participate because making every thing have a standard setting will only work for people where that standard setting works. Now I'm sure these people actually agree with this, but the same argument can be applied to allowing for customizations of a game. If a guy only had 3 fingers on his left hand (my friend only has thumb, index, and middle), customizations have to be made to accomodate this. For instance, it is physically impossible for him to jump and duck while moving forward if given the default configurations. To remedy this, he not only has to create a different layout for movement command, but actually has to create a few scripts that allow him adequate control of his character. Many of these scripts are intended to turn most +/- commands into toggleable actions so that he does not have to hold them and can instead choose to turn on and off whatever he is trying to do. Some of these are very creative and it surprises me how well he can play in his predicament, but if not for customizations he would not be able to play at all.
So my final thoughts... customization is a necessity, but that doesn't mean everybody should go out and use it to their hearts' content. In defense of those vets that are playtesting, it is a good thing that they come up with such exploitation scripts. This leads the devs to taking measures to prevent such scripts from working in the future, as not all people are going to play nice and not exploit.
<!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Jan 15 2004, 01:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Jan 15 2004, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So wait, are you now saying that me binding all the alien buildings to the numpad makes me a bad player? And that I should have to go to the popup menu every time I want to build something? That really doesnt make any sense, I want to see the gorge hotkeys built into the game, like the commander ones. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They are... when was the last time you looked at the config menu? So are upgrade/lifeform evolutions.
I say that if you can't bind it through the config menu then you simply don't need to (except in rare cases... see my previous post).
<!--QuoteBegin--Flash+Jan 15 2004, 10:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flash @ Jan 15 2004, 10:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Kar-aK+Jan 15 2004, 02:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kar-aK @ Jan 15 2004, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its not just a matter of pressing a button fast. As you probably already know, most players play on WASD. This is all fine, however, not everyone does. I know a large number of players, including myself who use the <b>arrow keys</b> for movment. Now, if you have a glance at the arrow keys, you will immediatly see that there are not as many local keys as there are with WASD. This usually means resorting to certain optomisations. Scripts and binds help with this enormously.
I am extreamly tempted to post my config(s) here. Thowever, i am prevented from doing so by a promise.
What i can do however is list what it include, with a <b>reason as to why it is useful.</b>
<b>Duck bind toggle</b> - Toggles the +duck command to my MOUSE2 - phsically impossible for me to press my jump key without it. (used for strafe jumping)
<b>3x jump bind</b> - This is not a script as most people wrongly presume, it is just an extreamly simple bind. As above i cant press the duck and +jump key together, so this is required.
<b>Leap / Bite</b> - Self explantory, I dont even have lastinv bound as there are no keys for it - go firgure...
There just 3 examples there, i have a few more, but theyre beyond the scope of this post (nothing naughty, ask me in IRC if you're really interested, which i highly doubt...).
Possible replies:
1) Change Keys to WASD? - Sorry i've tried, its just not the same - You would probably have the same response if you were to use my settings. Personal preference...You like tea...i like coffee...
2) You listen 3, there are many keys nearby? - Well dont forget binds are also required for: -) +duck -) +walk -) +jump -) +voicerecord -) A key for Ventrillo Voice Comms (clan games).
That pretty much uses up all the local keys...
So as you can see... Most of the time it has nothing to do with being "1337" as you put it, but a mere aspect of playability. NS requires a lot of keys to be bound, I just hope the Devs realise this as well...
- Kar- <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It’s quite depressing really reading how so many people see nothing wrong with scripting. Your leap bite script gives you a blatant advantage over everybody who relies on timing the actions by themselves. I’m sure there’s some sort of Blink Swipe Blink script about as well that turns you into a super Fade.
Your justification about there not being enough keys near the arrows is no excuse. Why don’t you just admit you rely on scripts to compensate for your lack of skill.
I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What are you talking about?
Leap/Blink scripts offer zero advantage.
I know this because I've tried them, and I personally think it sucks big time. I am a decent fade, and I think the fastest way to get killed would be to use one of these scripts, as I don't always just want to blink then swipe all the time, I may just want to keep blinking while changing my direction, and lots of other small things that could save my life as a fade.
Problem with people like you is that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Have you actually tried any of these scripts? Didn't think so, try again.
I've used them, but they make me feel much like many AirForce Fighter Pilots retirees will tell you. In a fighter jet, you have absolute control of where you are taking your bird. In most of the commercial airline jets you find... its "take off and then push this button... go to sleep... wake up 10 minutes before descent"... totally boring and unfulfilling. Same thing with just about all these scripts that are out there. I'm not the one actually doing the maneuver... some lame computer is doing it for me. That's just no fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--AoF.Palin+Jan 15 2004, 03:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AoF.Palin @ Jan 15 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have to admit that I am a damn good player. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And your in game name is?
I wouldn't make claims such as these untill you've played with the entire clan community.
<!--QuoteBegin--The Mad Hatter+Jan 15 2004, 12:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Mad Hatter @ Jan 15 2004, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jan 14 2004, 11:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jan 14 2004, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Nordbomber+Jan 14 2004, 11:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nordbomber @ Jan 14 2004, 11:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--nR|NeOn+Jan 13 2004, 06:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (nR|NeOn @ Jan 13 2004, 06:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so plz post bhop script and others and stuff which are maybe unfair but's the only way to equal the game! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> unfair being the keyword. Let's all just have perfect bunny-hopping skills and fastest firings because we like to be teh 1337.
Writing out scripts for devs to remove them is one thing. A section based on giving everyone the best scripts out there to use them is completely different. Excuse me for not wanting to have a hotkey kill me rather than someone actually using skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Didn't realize skill was determined by how fast you press a button.
Utterly absurd.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> skill is pressing a button fast, but not limited to that
I dislike scripting because it IS less skilled. No one can argue that it takes more skill to press one button than to time a series of pressing different buttons.
For instance, the jump duck script that a vet posted. Why bother? Is it too hard to jumpduck? A jumpduck script is a perfect example of taking some skill out of the game. skill in this case being ability to time 2 button pressings without error.
Firing fast is a skill as well. Of coarse, you could scrip rapid pressings of an attack button so that all you have to control is your aim. Whereas a generic player has to both press the key and control aim. Assuming that mouse1 is bound to +attack, this generic player would have to make sure that the pressing of the mouse1 button do not interfere with the aiming of the mouse.
Now to take it a step further. Suppose the scripter is a marine and he encounters a skulk in a close combat scenario. The scripter would only have to press the attack button once and then hit his jumpduck script once to dodge. The generic player (as marine) would have to press the attack key multiple times in rapid succesion, then press two buttons if he wanted to jumpduck to dodge.
The more buttons you have to press and time, the more skilled the player. Just as someone said in this thread "thx..thats one less button to press."
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm so sick of people thinking that scripting is used to improve a players skills. I am customizing my gameplay, not looking for shortcuts to make me a better player. Scripting does not make you a better player, period. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scripts DO NOT make you more skilled. However, they make you more efficient with the gaming skill you already have. This gives the appearance of a more skilled player. The arguement that "i am customizing my game" is really a excuss for "I am lowering the number of keys that i have to time and press, so that when I need to kill the enemy I just need to hit a couple buttons."
/me waiting for the flame response that doesnt make a counter arguement <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OmG Bravo Bravo I agree 1000000000010% For the people that script eh w/e you play yoru way us non-scripters play ours, but to say it doesn't enhance skill thats a mistake to say...
Ahhh i remeber the good old days when combat took place in the arena of SF and MK and n00blet kids i would play against who would have a turbo controler and a tad bit more buttons with key configurations already in place...well damn was that Homo "to be able" to do a move everyone else has to physically perform while you just hit viola 1(one) button and it sets in the particualr moves for a hella strong attack or Death Blow.
I have played many 1337 players in old HLDM and they all swear by there combos but you have to wonder did any one of the scripters out there today really learn how to do half of the things their "combos" do for them or did they join a game one day as *Gosh* NSPlayer and get pwn'd and said hmmm i wonder how to that stuff and rather than play the game an learn read a tutorial on scripting and combined his moves out...well my friend all you are doing is playing against his computer becuz in the time it takes you to cycle through your guns or last weap. you ded...
Now i FULLY UNDERSTAND that scripts dont increase your aiming abilities but they will make it easier to do so b/c you dont have to jump/jump/duck physically you hit "a" and it does so and out of range of said alein and bam you get the kill...That is not kool or fair to either parties involved either the victim or the perpetrator cuz the victim will learn to play agaisnt "bind boys" while Perpetrator will never truely know how to play the game...
Well these are my 2 cents on the scripting subject and hopefully i just get read thought about agreed/disagreed and thats the end no flame no war all <3
I have a script for Knife h4x :/
-[2iD]Bill D. Hives[CpL]
QUOTE (Flash @ Jan 15 2004, 10:58 AM) QUOTE (Kar-aK @ Jan 15 2004, 02:40 PM) Its not just a matter of pressing a button fast. As you probably already know, most players play on WASD. This is all fine, however, not everyone does. I know a large number of players, including myself who use the arrow keys for movment. Now, if you have a glance at the arrow keys, you will immediatly see that there are not as many local keys as there are with WASD. This usually means resorting to certain optomisations. Scripts and binds help with this enormously.
I am extreamly tempted to post my config(s) here. Thowever, i am prevented from doing so by a promise.
What i can do however is list what it include, with a reason as to why it is useful.
Duck bind toggle - Toggles the +duck command to my MOUSE2 - phsically impossible for me to press my jump key without it. (used for strafe jumping)
3x jump bind - This is not a script as most people wrongly presume, it is just an extreamly simple bind. As above i cant press the duck and +jump key together, so this is required.
Leap / Bite - Self explantory, I dont even have lastinv bound as there are no keys for it - go firgure...
There just 3 examples there, i have a few more, but theyre beyond the scope of this post (nothing naughty, ask me in IRC if you're really interested, which i highly doubt...).
Possible replies:
1) Change Keys to WASD? - Sorry i've tried, its just not the same - You would probably have the same response if you were to use my settings. Personal preference...You like tea...i like coffee...
2) You listen 3, there are many keys nearby? - Well dont forget binds are also required for: -) +duck -) +walk -) +jump -) +voicerecord -) A key for Ventrillo Voice Comms (clan games).
That pretty much uses up all the local keys...
So as you can see... Most of the time it has nothing to do with being "1337" as you put it, but a mere aspect of playability. NS requires a lot of keys to be bound, I just hope the Devs realise this as well...
- Kar-
It’s quite depressing really reading how so many people see nothing wrong with scripting. Your leap bite script gives you a blatant advantage over everybody who relies on timing the actions by themselves. I’m sure there’s some sort of Blink Swipe Blink script about as well that turns you into a super Fade.
Your justification about there not being enough keys near the arrows is no excuse. Why don’t you just admit you rely on scripts to compensate for your lack of skill.
I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions.
What are you talking about?
Leap/Blink scripts offer zero advantage.
I know this because I've tried them, and I personally think it sucks big time. I am a decent fade, and I think the fastest way to get killed would be to use one of these scripts, as I don't always just want to blink then swipe all the time, I may just want to keep blinking while changing my direction, and lots of other small things that could save my life as a fade.
Problem with people like you is that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Have you actually tried any of these scripts? Didn't think so, try again. --------------------------------------------------------------- Had to respond to this....wth where do you get leap/blink <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> However a blink swipe script is an advantage...It gives n00blet faeds the ability to do something "difficult" for beginners and make it deadly for "pros" and if they "pros" why they need a key command to do something they should know how...
As for Flash(ithink whoposted their hand keyboard movement junk) I play with <^> and down as well as the rest of the buttons close to them for my commands I have My jump to the left and my duck to the right they ctrl and ins and work wonders go figure and can even be used at the same a time *gasp* and maybe you should invest in a wheel mouse for a reload button last inv scroll down fire and talk that is everything on my mouse and it works like a charm so i r sorry but i dont see where the difficult part comes in :/ i r no 1337 player but i am better then most ppl i play who dont h4x or script cuz i play on instinct and finesse as well as skill as a gamer for almost as old as i could hold an atari controller (mmmm 1 button)
Comments
Read what the topic creator stated. He is actually trying to make it more fair for those who does not script, or to help find issues that should be addressed by the creators.
Flaming this thread does not help. Start a "I don't like scripting" thread for that, please.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->loadas8bit "1"
cl_gaitestimation "1"
gl_alphamin "0.25"
gl_texturemode "GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR"
gl_max_size "256"
gl_dither "1"
gl_flipmatrix "0"
gl_lightholes "0"
gl_monolights "0"
gl_overbright "1"
gl_polyoffset "0.1"
gl_smoothmodels "0"
gl_clear "1"
gl_cull "1"
gl_palette_tex "0"
gl_keeptjunctions "0"
gl_lightholes "1"
gl_picmip "0"
gl_playermip "5"
gl_round_down "6"
gl_wateramp "0"
gl_alphamin "0.25"
gl_spriteblend "1"
gl_ztrick "1"
gl_texsort "0"
ati_subdiv "0"
ati_npatch "0"
precache "1"
r_dynamic "0"
scr_conspeed "234214234324"
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am extreamly tempted to post my config(s) here. Thowever, i am prevented from doing so by a promise.
What i can do however is list what it include, with a <b>reason as to why it is useful.</b>
<b>Duck bind toggle</b> - Toggles the +duck command to my MOUSE2 - phsically impossible for me to press my jump key without it. (used for strafe jumping)
<b>3x jump bind</b> - This is not a script as most people wrongly presume, it is just an extreamly simple bind. As above i cant press the duck and +jump key together, so this is required.
<b>Leap / Bite</b> - Self explantory, I dont even have lastinv bound as there are no keys for it - go firgure...
There just 3 examples there, i have a few more, but theyre beyond the scope of this post (nothing naughty, ask me in IRC if you're really interested, which i highly doubt...).
Possible replies:
1) Change Keys to WASD? - Sorry i've tried, its just not the same - You would probably have the same response if you were to use my settings. Personal preference...You like tea...i like coffee...
2) You listen 3, there are many keys nearby? - Well dont forget binds are also required for:
-) +duck
-) +walk
-) +jump
-) +voicerecord
-) A key for Ventrillo Voice Comms (clan games).
That pretty much uses up all the local keys...
So as you can see... Most of the time it has nothing to do with being "1337" as you put it, but a mere aspect of playability. NS requires a lot of keys to be bound, I just hope the Devs realise this as well...
- Kar- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s quite depressing really reading how so many people see nothing wrong with scripting. Your leap bite script gives you a blatant advantage over everybody who relies on timing the actions by themselves. I’m sure there’s some sort of Blink Swipe Blink script about as well that turns you into a super Fade.
Your justification about there not being enough keys near the arrows is no excuse. Why don’t you just admit you rely on scripts to compensate for your lack of skill.
I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
But here, these are good:
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
//Morph into..
alias skulk "impulse 113"
alias gorge "impulse 114"
alias lerk "impulse 115"
alias fade "impulse 116"
alias onos "impulse 117"
//Upgrade
alias carapace "impulse 101"
alias regen "impulse 102"
alias redemption "impulse 103"
alias celerity "impulse 107"
alias adrenaline "impulse 108"
alias silence "impulse 109"
alias cloaking "impulse 110"
alias hivesight "impulse 111"
alias scent "impulse 112"
//gorge build
alias rt "impulse 90"
alias oc "impulse 91"
alias dc "impulse 92"
alias sc "impulse 93"
alias mc "impulse 94"
alias hive "impulse 95"
------------------End Of File-------------------
//Admin_chat toggle
alias pluschat "admin_messagemode admin_chat; messagemode; bind i minuschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Enabled; developer 0"
alias minuschat "admin_nomessagemode; bind i pluschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Disabled; developer 0"
//Admin_csay toggle
alias pluscsay "admin_messagemode admin_csay; messagemode; bind o minuscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Enabled; developer 0"
alias minuscsay "admin_nomessagemode; bind o pluscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Disabled; developer 0"
//Bind the above to a key, then press it, and anything you type will be in either admin_chat or admin_csay, press the key again to disable it
// Build toggle
alias minusbuild "-use; unbind q; bind q plusbuild"
alias plusbuild "+use; unbind q; bind q minusbuild"
bind q plusbuild
//Toggles +use/-use so you don't have to hold a key, makes it easier to chat while building
//RR Toggle
alias +enableRR "bind home readyroom; developer 1; echo - Readyroom enabled; developer 0"
alias -enableRR "unbind home; developer 1; echo - Readyroom disabled; developer 0;"
bind ins +enableRR
//Still allows readyroom, but no accidental useage, to use this, hold insert then press home to goto the readyroom
// Kill Toggle
alias +killme "bind kp_pgup kill; developer 1; echo + Kill; developer 0"
alias -killme "unbind kp_pgup; developer 1; echo - Kill; developer 0"
//Same as above, just for kill, I have this bound to kp_uparrow - then you hold that and press kp_pgup to kill yourself
//voice_loopback toggle
alias minusloop "voice_loopback 0; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 0; developer 0; bind pgup plusloop"
alias plusloop "voice_loopback 1; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 1; developer 0; bind pgup minusloop"
bind pgup plusloop
//Simply toggles voice_loopback with each press, bound to pgup
------------------------End Of File--------------------------
alias "ex_maxerrordistance" ""
alias "-crouch" "" //I was having problems with -crouch not found errors in console
hud_fastswitch 1
cl_sidespeed 1000
hlwc volume 25 //Play winamp softly in the background
hlwc play
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
None of the above ones give you any sort of advantage, they just simplify common tasks
I have a whole different script for when I command, which unbinds all the keys used by commander, so I dont have any problems with them executing commands.. Thats too customized for me to post, it invloves unbinding the hotkey keys, then rebinding them to what they are on my computer
Now, someone explain to me why anyone would have a problem with everything I posted above?
Where exactly is the automate action and lack of quick thinking in those custom binds?
Where exactly is the automate action and lack of quick thinking in those custom binds?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don`t care about scripts that help you build, evolve, chat ect.. But if it AUTOMATICALLY bunny hops for them, or duck jumps, or automatically switches to their pistol when they run out of ammo, then I think thats lack of skill... I hope Flayra removes the ability to use those kind of cfgs.
Call me a cynic but there doesn't seem to be many people sharing their "fair-play" scripts
People are arguing that scripts are ok by showing the ones that everyone that play NS has. These ones are perfectly fine and noone is saying they give anyone an unfair advantage. However what most people that are against scripts hate are the leap/focuse bite and blink/swipe scripts. (you can also add bunny hopping and pistol scripts but I don't really care about these) Believe me having a button the switches to the last weapon used is not the same thing.
There is a jump script.
Would you still call it lack of skill if he was able to own you left and right?
But here, these are good:
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
//Morph into..
alias skulk "impulse 113"
alias gorge "impulse 114"
alias lerk "impulse 115"
alias fade "impulse 116"
alias onos "impulse 117"
//Upgrade
alias carapace "impulse 101"
alias regen "impulse 102"
alias redemption "impulse 103"
alias celerity "impulse 107"
alias adrenaline "impulse 108"
alias silence "impulse 109"
alias cloaking "impulse 110"
alias hivesight "impulse 111"
alias scent "impulse 112"
//gorge build
alias rt "impulse 90"
alias oc "impulse 91"
alias dc "impulse 92"
alias sc "impulse 93"
alias mc "impulse 94"
alias hive "impulse 95"
------------------End Of File-------------------
//Admin_chat toggle
alias pluschat "admin_messagemode admin_chat; messagemode; bind i minuschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Enabled; developer 0"
alias minuschat "admin_nomessagemode; bind i pluschat; developer 1; echo Admin_Chat Disabled; developer 0"
//Admin_csay toggle
alias pluscsay "admin_messagemode admin_csay; messagemode; bind o minuscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Enabled; developer 0"
alias minuscsay "admin_nomessagemode; bind o pluscsay; developer 1; echo Admin_Csay Disabled; developer 0"
//Bind the above to a key, then press it, and anything you type will be in either admin_chat or admin_csay, press the key again to disable it
// Build toggle
alias minusbuild "-use; unbind q; bind q plusbuild"
alias plusbuild "+use; unbind q; bind q minusbuild"
bind q plusbuild
//Toggles +use/-use so you don't have to hold a key, makes it easier to chat while building
//RR Toggle
alias +enableRR "bind home readyroom; developer 1; echo - Readyroom enabled; developer 0"
alias -enableRR "unbind home; developer 1; echo - Readyroom disabled; developer 0;"
bind ins +enableRR
//Still allows readyroom, but no accidental useage, to use this, hold insert then press home to goto the readyroom
// Kill Toggle
alias +killme "bind kp_pgup kill; developer 1; echo + Kill; developer 0"
alias -killme "unbind kp_pgup; developer 1; echo - Kill; developer 0"
//Same as above, just for kill, I have this bound to kp_uparrow - then you hold that and press kp_pgup to kill yourself
//voice_loopback toggle
alias minusloop "voice_loopback 0; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 0; developer 0; bind pgup plusloop"
alias plusloop "voice_loopback 1; developer 1; echo - voice_loopback 1; developer 0; bind pgup minusloop"
bind pgup plusloop
//Simply toggles voice_loopback with each press, bound to pgup
------------------------End Of File--------------------------
alias "ex_maxerrordistance" ""
alias "-crouch" "" //I was having problems with -crouch not found errors in console
hud_fastswitch 1
cl_sidespeed 1000
hlwc volume 25 //Play winamp softly in the background
hlwc play
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
None of the above ones give you any sort of advantage, they just simplify common tasks
I have a whole different script for when I command, which unbinds all the keys used by commander, so I dont have any problems with them executing commands.. Thats too customized for me to post, it invloves unbinding the hotkey keys, then rebinding them to what they are on my computer
Now, someone explain to me why anyone would have a problem with everything I posted above? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These I like. I personally have 99.99% of the keys availible to my left and right hands bound out. My keypad is the upgrades/evolutions with every key left of T G and B being bound. /.,m are chambers and a hive, and half my Fkeys are bound to something else I can't remember half the time. Aliases for evolutions are great. I'm going to steal these. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And everyone knows <i>I'm</i> anti scripting..
Edit: There's two ways to "toggle" something. I prefer the keypress changing the alias name.. Like a rope script I made for a Sven Coop fun server:
alias "rope" "ropeon"
alias "ropeon" "+rope;alias rope ropeoff;speak engage"
alias "ropeoff" "-rope;alias rope ropeon;speak failure"
No rebinding needed. But the "hold this key then press this" is a nice touch. Gotta give my thumbs up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, if you're bored, exec this in console: speak "hgrunt/freeman go! up! my! a ss!"
Would you still call it lack of skill if he was able to own you left and right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol it dosen`t matter if he used a script or not I would still own him(I was ranked #1 on Freaks Unleashed). And If Flayra made it so he couldn`t use a cfg then I wouldn`t call it lack of skill <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
For example the blink swipe stuff. Im a noob fade but Ive got that timing down already and I dont use a lame script for it.
Sorry but its just my opinion that scripts for bunnyhopping and what not just limit a player and lower my respect for them.
Oh and the wait command will be removed in 3.0 so that is gonna be fun to watch a few "good" players I know go down in "skill" real fast.
-Red
1) Customization Freaks:
These people generally swear up and down on how using scripts is not only a good thing, but almost necessary in each one's own personal case. These people also view that the most important thing is not that you have skill or not when you use scripts, but that you CAN use scripts to do whatever you want, whenever you want.
2) Equality Freaks:
These people generally swear up and down that most instances of using a script of any sort should not be allowed. The primary argument for this is that, if everyone is given and absolute standard baseline as far as how the game is controlled / played, then personal skill is the only proving factor aside from whatever balance issues there may be in the game. They view that any customization to the game at hand presents the opportunity of gaining unfair advantages and therefore exploiting the game (sometimes referred to as cheating).
I have gripes with both of these views naturally.
1) Customization Freaks:
I have to admit that I am a damn good player. Many of these people swear up and down that if the game wasn't customizable to the degree it is then they couldn't be nearly effective as they are due to various reasons. One such argument deals with not having enough keys to bind everything to in any sort of logical / useful manner. I have EVERY command I could ever need in the game bound to a key WITHOUT the use of ANY scripts to combine commands and perform maneuvers such as bhopping manually. While I like the idea of being able to customize things, when applied to a game where other people/competitors are involved i sort of agree with the Equality Freaks to the point that everyone should either be given the exact same set of customizations to play with or have none at all to even the playing field.
2) Equality Freaks:
Just as a baseline, no two computers are the same (even if they have the same specs). Not allowing people to customize things like mouse sensitivity and brightness/gamma correction would mean a large majority of people could not participate because making every thing have a standard setting will only work for people where that standard setting works. Now I'm sure these people actually agree with this, but the same argument can be applied to allowing for customizations of a game. If a guy only had 3 fingers on his left hand (my friend only has thumb, index, and middle), customizations have to be made to accomodate this. For instance, it is physically impossible for him to jump and duck while moving forward if given the default configurations. To remedy this, he not only has to create a different layout for movement command, but actually has to create a few scripts that allow him adequate control of his character. Many of these scripts are intended to turn most +/- commands into toggleable actions so that he does not have to hold them and can instead choose to turn on and off whatever he is trying to do. Some of these are very creative and it surprises me how well he can play in his predicament, but if not for customizations he would not be able to play at all.
So my final thoughts... customization is a necessity, but that doesn't mean everybody should go out and use it to their hearts' content. In defense of those vets that are playtesting, it is a good thing that they come up with such exploitation scripts. This leads the devs to taking measures to prevent such scripts from working in the future, as not all people are going to play nice and not exploit.
They are... when was the last time you looked at the config menu? So are upgrade/lifeform evolutions.
I say that if you can't bind it through the config menu then you simply don't need to (except in rare cases... see my previous post).
I am extreamly tempted to post my config(s) here. Thowever, i am prevented from doing so by a promise.
What i can do however is list what it include, with a <b>reason as to why it is useful.</b>
<b>Duck bind toggle</b> - Toggles the +duck command to my MOUSE2 - phsically impossible for me to press my jump key without it. (used for strafe jumping)
<b>3x jump bind</b> - This is not a script as most people wrongly presume, it is just an extreamly simple bind. As above i cant press the duck and +jump key together, so this is required.
<b>Leap / Bite</b> - Self explantory, I dont even have lastinv bound as there are no keys for it - go firgure...
There just 3 examples there, i have a few more, but theyre beyond the scope of this post (nothing naughty, ask me in IRC if you're really interested, which i highly doubt...).
Possible replies:
1) Change Keys to WASD? - Sorry i've tried, its just not the same - You would probably have the same response if you were to use my settings. Personal preference...You like tea...i like coffee...
2) You listen 3, there are many keys nearby? - Well dont forget binds are also required for:
-) +duck
-) +walk
-) +jump
-) +voicerecord
-) A key for Ventrillo Voice Comms (clan games).
That pretty much uses up all the local keys...
So as you can see... Most of the time it has nothing to do with being "1337" as you put it, but a mere aspect of playability. NS requires a lot of keys to be bound, I just hope the Devs realise this as well...
- Kar- <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s quite depressing really reading how so many people see nothing wrong with scripting. Your leap bite script gives you a blatant advantage over everybody who relies on timing the actions by themselves. I’m sure there’s some sort of Blink Swipe Blink script about as well that turns you into a super Fade.
Your justification about there not being enough keys near the arrows is no excuse. Why don’t you just admit you rely on scripts to compensate for your lack of skill.
I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about?
Leap/Blink scripts offer zero advantage.
I know this because I've tried them, and I personally think it sucks big time. I am a decent fade, and I think the fastest way to get killed would be to use one of these scripts, as I don't always just want to blink then swipe all the time, I may just want to keep blinking while changing my direction, and lots of other small things that could save my life as a fade.
Problem with people like you is that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Have you actually tried any of these scripts? Didn't think so, try again.
And your in game name is?
I wouldn't make claims such as these untill you've played with the entire clan community.
unfair being the keyword. Let's all just have perfect bunny-hopping skills and fastest firings because we like to be teh 1337.
Writing out scripts for devs to remove them is one thing. A section based on giving everyone the best scripts out there to use them is completely different. Excuse me for not wanting to have a hotkey kill me rather than someone actually using skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't realize skill was determined by how fast you press a button.
Utterly absurd.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
skill is pressing a button fast, but not limited to that
I dislike scripting because it IS less skilled. No one can argue that it takes more skill to press one button than to time a series of pressing different buttons.
For instance, the jump duck script that a vet posted. Why bother? Is it too hard to jumpduck? A jumpduck script is a perfect example of taking some skill out of the game. skill in this case being ability to time 2 button pressings without error.
Firing fast is a skill as well. Of coarse, you could scrip rapid pressings of an attack button so that all you have to control is your aim. Whereas a generic player has to both press the key and control aim. Assuming that mouse1 is bound to +attack, this generic player would have to make sure that the pressing of the mouse1 button do not interfere with the aiming of the mouse.
Now to take it a step further. Suppose the scripter is a marine and he encounters a skulk in a close combat scenario. The scripter would only have to press the attack button once and then hit his jumpduck script once to dodge. The generic player (as marine) would have to press the attack key multiple times in rapid succesion, then press two buttons if he wanted to jumpduck to dodge.
The more buttons you have to press and time, the more skilled the player. Just as someone said in this thread "thx..thats one less button to press."
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm so sick of people thinking that scripting is used to improve a players skills. I am customizing my gameplay, not looking for shortcuts to make me a better player. Scripting does not make you a better player, period. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scripts DO NOT make you more skilled. However, they make you more efficient with the gaming skill you already have. This gives the appearance of a more skilled player. The arguement that "i am customizing my game" is really a excuss for "I am lowering the number of keys that i have to time and press, so that when I need to kill the enemy I just need to hit a couple buttons."
/me waiting for the flame response that doesnt make a counter arguement <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OmG Bravo Bravo I agree 1000000000010% For the people that script eh w/e you play yoru way us non-scripters play ours, but to say it doesn't enhance skill thats a mistake to say...
Ahhh i remeber the good old days when combat took place in the arena of SF and MK and n00blet kids i would play against who would have a turbo controler and a tad bit more buttons with key configurations already in place...well damn was that Homo "to be able" to do a move everyone else has to physically perform while you just hit viola 1(one) button and it sets in the particualr moves for a hella strong attack or Death Blow.
I have played many 1337 players in old HLDM and they all swear by there combos but you have to wonder did any one of the scripters out there today really learn how to do half of the things their "combos" do for them or did they join a game one day as *Gosh* NSPlayer and get pwn'd and said hmmm i wonder how to that stuff and rather than play the game an learn read a tutorial on scripting and combined his moves out...well my friend all you are doing is playing against his computer becuz in the time it takes you to cycle through your guns or last weap. you ded...
Now i FULLY UNDERSTAND that scripts dont increase your aiming abilities but they will make it easier to do so b/c you dont have to jump/jump/duck physically you hit "a" and it does so and out of range of said alein and bam you get the kill...That is not kool or fair to either parties involved either the victim or the perpetrator cuz the victim will learn to play agaisnt "bind boys" while Perpetrator will never truely know how to play the game...
Well these are my 2 cents on the scripting subject and hopefully i just get read thought about agreed/disagreed and thats the end no flame no war all <3
I have a script for Knife h4x :/
-[2iD]Bill D. Hives[CpL]
QUOTE (Flash @ Jan 15 2004, 10:58 AM)
QUOTE (Kar-aK @ Jan 15 2004, 02:40 PM)
Its not just a matter of pressing a button fast. As you probably already know, most players play on WASD. This is all fine, however, not everyone does. I know a large number of players, including myself who use the arrow keys for movment. Now, if you have a glance at the arrow keys, you will immediatly see that there are not as many local keys as there are with WASD. This usually means resorting to certain optomisations. Scripts and binds help with this enormously.
I am extreamly tempted to post my config(s) here. Thowever, i am prevented from doing so by a promise.
What i can do however is list what it include, with a reason as to why it is useful.
Duck bind toggle - Toggles the +duck command to my MOUSE2 - phsically impossible for me to press my jump key without it. (used for strafe jumping)
3x jump bind - This is not a script as most people wrongly presume, it is just an extreamly simple bind. As above i cant press the duck and +jump key together, so this is required.
Leap / Bite - Self explantory, I dont even have lastinv bound as there are no keys for it - go firgure...
There just 3 examples there, i have a few more, but theyre beyond the scope of this post (nothing naughty, ask me in IRC if you're really interested, which i highly doubt...).
Possible replies:
1) Change Keys to WASD? - Sorry i've tried, its just not the same - You would probably have the same response if you were to use my settings. Personal preference...You like tea...i like coffee...
2) You listen 3, there are many keys nearby? - Well dont forget binds are also required for:
-) +duck
-) +walk
-) +jump
-) +voicerecord
-) A key for Ventrillo Voice Comms (clan games).
That pretty much uses up all the local keys...
So as you can see... Most of the time it has nothing to do with being "1337" as you put it, but a mere aspect of playability. NS requires a lot of keys to be bound, I just hope the Devs realise this as well...
- Kar-
It’s quite depressing really reading how so many people see nothing wrong with scripting. Your leap bite script gives you a blatant advantage over everybody who relies on timing the actions by themselves. I’m sure there’s some sort of Blink Swipe Blink script about as well that turns you into a super Fade.
Your justification about there not being enough keys near the arrows is no excuse. Why don’t you just admit you rely on scripts to compensate for your lack of skill.
I hope Flayra does everything possible to eliminate these things. NS is about quick thinking and quick reactions, not who can automate the most actions.
What are you talking about?
Leap/Blink scripts offer zero advantage.
I know this because I've tried them, and I personally think it sucks big time. I am a decent fade, and I think the fastest way to get killed would be to use one of these scripts, as I don't always just want to blink then swipe all the time, I may just want to keep blinking while changing my direction, and lots of other small things that could save my life as a fade.
Problem with people like you is that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Have you actually tried any of these scripts? Didn't think so, try again.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Had to respond to this....wth where do you get leap/blink <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
However a blink swipe script is an advantage...It gives n00blet faeds the ability to do something "difficult" for beginners and make it deadly for "pros" and if they "pros" why they need a key command to do something they should know how...
As for Flash(ithink whoposted their hand keyboard movement junk)
I play with <^> and down as well as the rest of the buttons close to them for my commands
I have My jump to the left and my duck to the right they ctrl and ins and work wonders go figure and can even be used at the same a time *gasp* and maybe you should invest in a wheel mouse for a reload button last inv scroll down fire and talk that is everything on my mouse and it works like a charm so i r sorry but i dont see where the difficult part comes in :/ i r no 1337 player but i am better then most ppl i play who dont h4x or script cuz i play on instinct and finesse as well as skill as a gamer for almost as old as i could hold an atari controller (mmmm 1 button)
Sorry for even more time ty for reading...Peace
-[2iD]Bill D. Hives[CpL]