Is 2.01 Really All About Res?
BarbraStreisand
Join Date: 2004-01-14 Member: 25308Members
Join Date: 2004-01-14 Member: 25308Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How about hive securing...?</div> Had a game running really well for the rines yesterday on NS_Veil. We gathered rt after rt and managed to claim one hive (the one behind emergency nozzle...forgot the name. 6 vs. 3 res for the rines and I asked the comm to put up a PG at the hive but he didn`t seem to listen. After waiting for about 15 sec and reminding him he told me, that "2.01 is all about res and not about securing hives" and asked me to kindly shut up. It ended up with the aliens splitting up in two groups: One half attacking the rines pushing from rt to rt and a small group includiung one onos and one fade recapturing all resnodes we had just succesfully build. Soon the tables had turned an it now was 2 vs. 7 with the comm wasting all res on JP and Shotties and the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> and <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> continuing to make fun of our team by destroying every resnode we had captured.
My Opinion: If a comm decides to give a f... about securing res he should AT LEAST be able to save some of his money to equip a whole team at once, not giving out one Shottie as soon as he got the res for it. To my complete irritation - when i clicked that button "Eject Commander" my Team told me that I was acting unfair, that he was a good comm and I should ASK him to leave CC and not vote him out... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Any Comments? What can I expect from 3.0 in Terms of res-securing?
My Opinion: If a comm decides to give a f... about securing res he should AT LEAST be able to save some of his money to equip a whole team at once, not giving out one Shottie as soon as he got the res for it. To my complete irritation - when i clicked that button "Eject Commander" my Team told me that I was acting unfair, that he was a good comm and I should ASK him to leave CC and not vote him out... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Any Comments? What can I expect from 3.0 in Terms of res-securing?
Comments
That could have been my quote.
2.01 is all about res. Really. Let any one team have enough nodes over a time period, and you will start to see HA, Onos, Fades etc. The other team should work to prevent that: Take down their nodes.
Now, it sounds like the aliens did a good job in your game if they retook all rts. The comm may or may not be the one to blame, or it may be suberb play from the aliens. Or the marines weren't good enough to compete.
Of course the hives must be taken down, and the marines should really try to stop the aliens from getting the 3rd hive. However, locking down a hive early in the game does not ensure that. Preventing the aliens from getting any resources is a better way: 40 (50) res for one alien is very costy if they only have 2 nodes.
It seems that the the comm's general strategy was ok, but he didn't take advabtage of the large amouns of res coming in when he had the chance. That coupled with superb teamwork on the alien side (which i doubt any of the marines were expecting) was his downfall.
but more than ever resnodes are important, also denying resnodes is another important thing
1) 4 RTs right off the bat
2) if main base is dyin you can just relocate if need be so the game wont just end
3) aliens wont have 3 hives and all the added advantages of that
4) the aliens will usually concintrate more on the hive than the marine base allowing you to get upgrades with ease and not have to worry about some fade blinkin in and tearin down your adv armory or your arms lab or whatever all the time.
This is a RTS and not just a FPS so you need Res. You also need to stop the other team from expanding and advancing faster/further than you. Commanders who go for just res and not a hive usually lose unless the alien team doesnt work together at all. Even if its just a elec RT and PG to a hive its better than nothing but securing a hive is the easiest way to get a win.
Call me noob see if I care. I know Im right and thats fine by me.
-Red
ahhhh the love of ns <3
but more than ever resnodes are important, also denying resnodes is another important thing <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haven't you ever played 1.04?
if I could choose:
a) 7 restowers and no hive secured
or
b) 4 restowers and a hive
i would definately choose b
a) 7 restowers and no hive secured
or
b) 4 restowers and a hive
i would definately choose b <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you would? id pick a.
Actually he is either an experienced comm or he is a noob. The experienced comm will most likely inform you of his plan, and tell you to move out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->after some minutes the aliens will start to have fades and to take down your res one by on <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And thus, electrifying is a waste of res...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i usually reloc into a hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I generally find relocating to be a waste or res and time. Thats 1+ min you slow down ups, and thats 20 res "wasted". Sometimes, relocing is fun, or somewhat necessary eg. ns_hera (which I just hate cuz of the lag problems...).
In games I comm, I usually don't drop a tf unless I have to seige a hive. In general, I never secure a hive beyond a pg or electrify. The game is all about pressure. If you can pressure the aliens through res and attacking the hive, its GG. You don't have to secure a hive etc, the aliens simply will not have enough tech to deal with marines. In a game where marines are pressuring the hive/rts, and the marines are decent, the second hive won't be up by JPs. If the marines are really good, the game can end in 5 mins w/o shotty rush obviously.
Refering back to the main poster, IMO, 6v3 res isn't the best situation to be in if that was about 3-4 mins in. It still leaves in a reasonable chance that aliens will win, especially if the comm was electrifying nodes.
well, just my opinion: if your ha train is stopped by xenocide, webs and acid rockets, the whole thing becomes kind of difficult. and when does that happen? if they have 3 hives.
i ment
a) 7 restowers, aliens have 3 restowers AND 3 hives.
of course i would take the 7 restowers if they only have one hive.
if they have 2 hives as long as the marines are ahead on res they can stop that 3rd hive before it becomes even a problem
pressure is the key - ive commanded many game and have won alot and also lost a lot, the difference between winning and losing in my experiance has been those couple of players who <u>Know</u> how to pressure a hive without getting chomped in 4 seconds flat. pressuring the hive allows the rest of the marine team to walk around the map unchallenged 90% of the time, capping nodes building the PGs at nodes in the tactical places and elecing only those nodes to keep skulks away. Heck last time i had people like that on my team we didnt secure a hive at all just dropped nodes didnt even elec them.
keep up the pressure and ull have all the nodes you want, keep on top of their res also make sure u limit them to <= 3 nodes and you to >=4 nodes and there shoudnt be a problem, id much drather face fades than onos anyday becuase Fades are at least killable.
btw i thought great hive "secure base"
Make tf and pg on top of it/next to it. then make cluster 3 turrets on the tf and after that electrf tf. It hase huge advantage fade cannot kill sentrys without taking electrf dam and 3 of turrets will shoot him, and you should also get somebody to there in that time. it`s all in all 60 res.
Giving out shotguns was exactly what the comm did that game, but - as stated above - only sporadically, so the effect was close to zero compared to spending the 60 res on securing the hive. To deny the aliens the third hive will - even after reading all the different opinions here - always be my personal priority and not capturing >6 resnodes.
I have seen too many games on pub servers turning from a dream into an apocalypse because rines pressured an occupied hive instead of securing the empty one. As long as your comm can´t afford a HA train it will always be possible for a lerk and some leaping skulks to put the rines team into a temporary stalmate situation...well...then again... <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> are a good idea, but that`s another topic...
i ment
a) 7 restowers, aliens have 3 restowers AND 3 hives.
of course i would take the 7 restowers if they only have one hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
now, thats a challenge... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In my previous post; Im thinking as a strat from the beginning of the game; to go for 7 res and hold them for at least 2 mins... If you could do this then no matter who is playing either team; aliens has a little chance to put the 3rd hive... Its worse in public because of res flow of aliens... in 12v12 games, only chance for aliens are RFK, which good players compansate res flow by harvesting newbies...
But if you are asking that, this is a mid game situation, previous comm fleed, and I get to comm, do I pray for 7 rts with 3 hives or 2 hives secured... of course the second one; I would prefer to have 2-3 mins trying to correct things if I could...
If your not on a pub then a whole lot of really diffrent tactics that wont work on a Pub will work and work a LOT better. On a Pub elec RTs are necessary unless the alien team is 100% nub. On say a Pug (note the G) you dont even need a TF to win most of the time and turrets can be a very rare sight.
Oh and If you have an alien team that has 5/10 people who know what they are doing they can win the game easy on 2 RTs. Course they will be keeping the marine RTs down to 1 or 2 but heh thats pubs for you. Really really messed up.
-Red
The trick to 2.01 is to keep the enemy in one spot, pressured, while you liberate the rest of the map for very little cost. For the aliens that means rushing, stomping, good zones of lame, rapid responses. For marines, it means taking a hive, rushing the next hive, rushing to third hive, and rushing back to the first hive, all the time nuking every alien rt you see.
That not only cripples the alien weapons and upgrades, it keeps their res income low. So low that most will earn more from RFK. This means your men will see more action, but it will be desperate res starved aliens. Also, killing a hive and moving on will allow someone to rebuild the hive....... or try to. While they waste 50 res or more on the hive, you're taking down the other 2 and can be back to kill that rebuilt hive before it properly drops.
Res is important but its also about pressuring the enemy and not letting him sit on his backside laming up his hive/spawn and hoarding all the res for an unstoppable endgame rush.
While you shouldn't allow the aliens to have 3 hives, still there are better ways to go about winning than trying to lock one down from the beginning.
The reason is simple: If you waste your starting res/time securing a hive, you will not be able to slow the alien economy as effectively, therefore you will risk them getting an onos or two. As you should have realized by now turrets are like straw to the onos, sure he will be delayed by them, but no amount of turrets will keep a determined onos away for long.
As for using PG's behind electrified RT's this is a more sensible use of res, as it makes up for the marines lack of mobility (when compared to the khraa).
As for disobeying comms orders, you really should have known better, the comm selects the strategy, you are to implement it. If you do not play the same strategy as your comm, you will not be likely to win.
a) 7 restowers and no hive secured
or
b) 4 restowers and a hive
i would definately choose b <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you would? id pick a. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
me2
Organized Players in WALLS, what walk throught resnode to res node, taking every single one of them and kill all gorges and skulks and some couple lerks that always showed up, then they walked to hive and took, to another until we surrounded last hive with a Armoury and elec TF and 2 turrets, and got a JP and 2 HA and HMG for the Ha, JP had GL, rest had shotguns. Worked like wonder(That player walk in walls blocking whole corridor, shooting everything that comes at sight, gives RES for Weapon Up's <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
Lets face facts, the vast majority of hives are impossible to hold. They are DESIGNED that way. There's vents, blind corners, the hive itself is big and easy to find, etc. By putting res into trying to defend their swiss cheese layout you're only pouring res down the drain.
Use a PG, perhaps an elec'd tf, and very little else. The aliens rush it, you phase in. Costs you very little. If on the other hand you lame it to hell, the aliens will STILL rush in, STILL take it, and you'll be out by a hell of a lot of res.