Ns 3.0 Hurting The Community?
Kafkas_Morph
Join Date: 2004-01-14 Member: 25314Members
Join Date: 2004-01-14 Member: 25314Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is the official release hurting the game</div> My take on this is that most clans and constellation players at the moment are playing NS 3.0, and the general public does not have access to this. This means there may be less clan recruitment going on, given clans don't play with casual players on their servers as often any longer.
Not to mention, the general feeling among the average gamer is one of discontent at waiting so long (well maybe not discontent in some cases, but definitely impatience). This has the potentiality to alienate (yes that's a pun) the user base as well.
These two things combined provide an obstacle to the growth of the natural selection community. While I understand the desire to wait and release 3.0 as properly and as shiny as possible with few flaws, I don't understand how the developers can afford to hinder community growth much longer as the system engine gets older and will be replaced with the advent of HL2 (if it is EVER released).
I feel it would be most helpful to get the hardcore NS players together with the casual gamers again under 3.0, to foster the growth of the community.
Just some thoughts... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> me down if I'm wrong <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not to mention, the general feeling among the average gamer is one of discontent at waiting so long (well maybe not discontent in some cases, but definitely impatience). This has the potentiality to alienate (yes that's a pun) the user base as well.
These two things combined provide an obstacle to the growth of the natural selection community. While I understand the desire to wait and release 3.0 as properly and as shiny as possible with few flaws, I don't understand how the developers can afford to hinder community growth much longer as the system engine gets older and will be replaced with the advent of HL2 (if it is EVER released).
I feel it would be most helpful to get the hardcore NS players together with the casual gamers again under 3.0, to foster the growth of the community.
Just some thoughts... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> me down if I'm wrong <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
to your post:
i think the devs would like to see ns 3.xx having been published around christmas as it was announced...
and even if not that theyd like to publish it as fast as possible...
the problem is: there is NOOOO way it could be published in a short while...
it would happen what you describe, players will be driven of ns cause it is so unfinished and unbalanced...
the only thing we can do is wait, and as we see the dev team has done a great job until now with all releases, I for one trust them
I know many testers who still play 2.01 regularily on their usual servers, so Flayra isn't exactly alienating the general public, he chose a few appropriate testers from the public to get the best results possible.
Its not like we're forced to only play 3.0, if that might be your impression.
Some servers have already converted some havent. This leeds to a split in the comunity.
3.0 will be out eventualy when its finished.
And clans are still around, once 3.0 is deemed skirmable, the vet clan droppage will begin.
So we are about to start the phase new vet program was intendet to.. Progress is slow but steady, just wait or (if you must have it) join constelation ..
And if you think NS 3.0 is dragging players out from 2.01.. this is simply not true.. Many people including me still play 2.01 and I can post you IP of servers and you can check (for example in all seeing eye) that maximum number of simultaineous players on all servers is just about 32 during peak hours.. so 32 people less out of 1000 or so who play NS2.01 doesnt make any serious difference..
I can come up with 2 suggestions;
1) release ns:combat and 2.01 as a supported steam game to being back people to play combat and the 2.01 vets can continue
2) Have a forums section that is filled with regular updates on what is happening, what bugs were found, what they have accomplished, etc. This can even be done weekly.
Please don't flame as I am only suggestion, I am not imposing nor am I being aggresive.
regards
On tour comment about combat - combat is not separated game and is still subject to heavy changes at the moment, evolving maps etc.. I doubt it could be released and any release would seriously lower impact of full 3.0 release..
Threads with some info were here already.. thread with combat screenshots for example.. You probably can't have regural reports, who would write those? Some player? Who? Even us in vet/beta program get usually very little updates about what is going on and what is under development or considered, we are always surprised by new build and you get the same changelist we get in forum..
But dont worry there are some serious plan for posting screenshots, interviews, demos to keep you tuned, NS is seeking new PR man..
1 thing that would really brighten up alot of peoples lives is updates of the main ns.org page. Its so depressing when you check to see if its updated and its the same as yesterday, and the day before... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Otherwise... get playtesting, as I want 3.0 quickly <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
regards
anywho if what people say is right " more time = better game" i am willing to wait.
If the devs are absolutely opposed to this then I have another thing to suggest: Don't even announce that a new version is coming out until you are fairly sure when its coming out... if at all. Even a slight variation on this would work. Announce only as soon as you are accepting beta-applications (the correct way to do it, not through Const/Vet program) to test and balance the game. Do this only after extensive alpha testing, and make the beta feasible to change within a one to two month period at most. Then two weeks after the beta phase has ended (and you should have been able to fix all bugs and polish by then) release it to mirrors for everyone to download.
As a side note, I am part of a clan that plays NS, but is not large enough (by design) to sign up for vet status not to mention my clan plays many other games so we couldn't make the utter committment to NS development that the devs are asking for. This kind of pisses off some of my crew. Furthermore, the idea of having to pay a fee for getting access to the beta is even more infuriating... even to me. To begin, not everyone is eligible for paying this fee (foreign states... and don't argue there's always the post, because that's too unreliable even in the US). Secondly, the Constellation program is a donation program... not a service program... or at least that's what it began as. I find it particularly offensive that I'm not elligible to give critical insight to the testing, fixing, and balancing of the game simply because I don't have the ability/finances to do so. Like I mentioned earlier, if there is any restrictions to be made, make it on the basis of a universal application system where some people qualify and some don't. At least this way everyone feels like they had a chance to help in some form or fashion.
I imagine I'm not alone in this feeling, but I'll get off my soap box for now.
As a side note, I am part of a clan that plays NS, but is not large enough (by design) to sign up for vet status not to mention my clan plays many other games so we couldn't make the utter committment to NS development that the devs are asking for. This kind of pisses off some of my crew. Furthermore, the idea of having to pay a fee for getting access to the beta is even more infuriating... even to me. To begin, not everyone is eligible for paying this fee (foreign states... and don't argue there's always the post, because that's too unreliable even in the US). Secondly, the Constellation program is a donation program... not a service program... or at least that's what it began as. I find it particularly offensive that I'm not elligible to give critical insight to the testing, fixing, and balancing of the game simply because I don't have the ability/finances to do so.
I imagine I'm not alone in this feeling, but I'll get off my soap box for now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Tough luck? You can still play 2.01, but if you have a level of commitment to NS, then you can test the new version. Besides, do you have 5 members or something?
2) It's not a fee, it's a donation. The access to the beta is an extra little "plus" that Flayra supplied. If you do not have enough money to donate, or can't find a clan, you can still play 2.01.
Having a complete public testing would be horrible, and I'm sure everyone realizes that the bigger the testing group, the more bugs are found, and the quicker things go.
Isnt that statement quite contradictory? If its a complete public beta then you have the largest potential for bugs being found and fixed, and thus things go even quicker. And even if the devs wanted to make some of the testing areas private there is always the option of having certain sponsored servers apply a password to get access to the server... that way only those people that they wanted for a closed test could still test without being bugged by the occasion newbie that keeps typing "how do i get better weapons?" all game long.
EDIT: btw I've edited my previous post to add a few points... you may want to re-read
Isnt that statement quite contradictory? If its a complete public beta then you have the largest potential for bugs being found and fixed, and thus things go even quicker. And even if the devs wanted to make some of the testing areas private there is always the option of having certain sponsored servers apply a password to get access to the server... that way only those people that they wanted for a closed test could still test without being bugged by the occasion newbie that keeps typing "how do i get better weapons?" all game long.
EDIT: btw I've edited my previous post to add a few points... you may want to re-read <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A bigger group, yes, but still keeping it in a group. There are many issues with everyone testing it, such as server providers ( not that many people would be able to update the server once a week, or want to download new patches once a week).
But, a large controlled group finds things faster.
What's up with it now?
But of course, I'll be happier if the testing takes longer than usual, because that means they're really bug-testing the game, and making it more fun at the same time. Actually, I think they should add a new category to the Peace Nobel Prize : Best game devs <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
So overall, Even if I feel that the NS community is being slowly divided (wether it be 3.0, Steam or whatever), it will still remain large, and I'm sure that Flayra won't disappoint us this time. Because well....2.0 was a small disappointment IMO but I blame it on the release date
The reason there aren't enough general players right now is that 2.0 didn't encourage growth of the community. It was rushed and had some serious issues. Repeating 2.0 release would be a bad thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My take on this is that most clans and constellation players at the moment are playing NS 3.0<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beta's aren't all that fun. You get to play with new features but you have game breaking bugs and glaring imbalances. Not to mention every week you have to download a new patch and get used to that. I'd say the majority of people with access to the beta don't play more than once a week.
Well that's how I feel about this whole subject. But I also keep in mind that when I say this that Flayra and the rest of the devs don't owe me anything, they are providing the game for free. The only time that a mod team ever owes the players ANYTHING is when they release the mod as retail. Then I think that it is their obligation to keep the game updated in a timely matter.
So, it all boils down to:
1.) Flayra doesn't owe us anything
2.) He made the mod because he felt like it.
3.) They don't like updating the site, we have to be patient. Somehow, I'll think we'll live.
2.) He made the mod because he felt like it.
3.) They don't like updating the site, we have to be patient. Somehow, I'll think we'll live. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.) True. However, no matter if it's a free or a retail game, the developer and the players needs to interact. If no interaction is made, the game will stall and the players will lose interest leading to more stalls and losing more players..... If the developer intended to only have a game only playable by some very few people it would work. But I don't think this is the case.
2.) Agreed.
3.) I never check main anymore anyway, news are faster on forums. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think this thread is dead now... oh well.
I doubt that the testers are all having fun and games (huk) due to the nasty bugs. A money donation or a true commitment to a clan would show to the devs that you're serious about improving the game. A public beta would likely result in hundreds of idiots spamming Flayra's email box with complaints about everything.
How do you determin a hardcore NS player then say he can play the beta? you will just bring up more unhappy people
As things stand now, the Constellation/Vet thing seems to strike a decent balance. It's not a free-for-all, so only those willing to get off their butts and actually do something... whether it be getting a clan together or sending in $20.. will be admitted. It shows at least a level of dedication ONE step above the casual forumgoer who will download the beta because it's there.
3.0 will be out when it's ready, and not a moment before. The events surrounding the release of 2.0 (major gameplay change less than two days before deadline) has cemented the 'no release dates until it's in the can' mantra. Until then, content yourself with the changelogs, and prattle in the Public Beta Forum.
Until I'm told otherwise though, all 'why isn't NSv3.0 here yet?!' threads will meet the same fate in being <span style='color:red'>*LOCKED.*</span>