Planescape Torment. Amazing. 'Nuff said.
Marik_Steele
To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Why didn't anyone tell me it's so good?</div> A few years ago I didn't consider myself much the RPG player. Never owned any consoles (only PCs) so to this day I haven't played more than 15 minutes straight of anything in the Final Fantasy or Xenogears or similar console series. Playing D&D with friends with pencil & paper, as well as Deus Ex and Fallout 1 and 2, are the things that really got me into RPGs. After the Fallout series I tried Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind; I wasn't so impressed by NwN, and I respect Morrowind's open-endedness but stay away from it for the same reasons I don't play MMORPGs -- I don't do drugs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> .
But seriously, why didn't anyone <i>tell</i> me Planescape Torment kicked so much tail? I've been playing for hours, and I can't remember another RPG where I was able to play a true neutral or neutral good main character with a total body count still in the single digits even after an I've-lost-count number of hours into it. Are games with plot, NPC interaction, and overall fun factor like this made all the time? It seems like too many fun games, like Drakan or Freedom Fighters, get overshadowed by more famous but overall lesser counterparts like Tomb Raider or...um...I really can't think of a counterpart to Freedom Fighters. It's the best 3rd or 1st person game I can remember for friendly AI and the command system, and the atmosphere reminded me of Fallout sometimes.
Enough of my rambling. Given the above games I enjoyed, are there any other ones I've missed out on? What should I know about Planescape: Torment in regards to doing anything to avoid any bugs in the game? Try to give a warning for spoilers if you can't avoid them entirely.
But seriously, why didn't anyone <i>tell</i> me Planescape Torment kicked so much tail? I've been playing for hours, and I can't remember another RPG where I was able to play a true neutral or neutral good main character with a total body count still in the single digits even after an I've-lost-count number of hours into it. Are games with plot, NPC interaction, and overall fun factor like this made all the time? It seems like too many fun games, like Drakan or Freedom Fighters, get overshadowed by more famous but overall lesser counterparts like Tomb Raider or...um...I really can't think of a counterpart to Freedom Fighters. It's the best 3rd or 1st person game I can remember for friendly AI and the command system, and the atmosphere reminded me of Fallout sometimes.
Enough of my rambling. Given the above games I enjoyed, are there any other ones I've missed out on? What should I know about Planescape: Torment in regards to doing anything to avoid any bugs in the game? Try to give a warning for spoilers if you can't avoid them entirely.
Comments
Edit: You may wanna try Knights Of The Old Republic. In my opinion, it wins my best game of the year award hands down.
Unfortunately, Planescape stands pretty much alone. As far as deep 'express yourself' RPGs go, you already named the best with Fallout, DX, and Torment. I'd prolly add Arcanum, which doesn't reach any of them but is still a more than solid title.
As far as other RPGs with extensive NPC interaction go, I'd suggest the two Gothics, whom I share a love-hate relationship with, and KOTOR, which I found in no way as amazing as some, but it remains good enough to entertain.
[edit]Testament: Torment is based on the Planescape universe of D&D, so yes, it uses the same rules, although their application is a little different than the Forgotten Realms titles.[/edit]
Unfortunately, yes, and the combat suffers greatly because of it (zero strategy and zero skill... the hallmarks of the Infinity engine, maybe there is a good way to impliment D&D in computer games, but this isn't it), luckily enough, combat is not the focus of the game, and you spend most of your time talking to people, which is where the game excels.
Yes, I do remember reading in the Baulder's Gate manual that the game is "more than just hack and slash!". After about ten hours of play I concluded that this is bulls**t. It IS just hack and slash!
Though I can't complain really since I was a massive BG fanboy for some time, i've only recently stopped kidding myself that the infinity engine sucks. Icewind Dale II (the newest game using the infinity engine afaik) is.... good, but still lacking enough to make me want to complete it.
Weren't you the one I practically forced Planescape: Torment on? If so, go into detail on what you think of the game, please.
There are a few dialogue options that are permanently closed off unless you use it, (and unfortuantely, it also fixes some experience loops <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
You make it to the Dead Nations yet? Only thing I want to mention is: Eat a cranium rat before you talk to the zombie matriarch - very neat dialogue option I missed because my intelligence, (or maybe it was my charisma) was a bit low.
She'll take you somewhere cool...
Guess it's not too much of a spoiler, but yes.
Son of a... what the hell is this <a href='http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/Torment/index_editors.htm' target='_blank'>restoration pack</a>?!?!?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This file will restore a collection of spells, items etc. that, for one reason or another, did not make it into the final version of Planescape: Torment.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NO! The link doesn't work!
Must scour Internet for patch...
Oh yeah, if you want to waste more of your time, there was this additional quest that was free for download. I still have it:
Me and Confuzor will have to corner you into a dark alley and hurt you.
Edit: I'd like a full report from you when you finish the game. Dismissed. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No, they aren't made that often at all.
Freedom Fighters could've been a good game if they didn't try to turn it into a strategy where you have to command every movement of all your heroes.
I've never played Drakan.
And trust me when I say this, there is no game in the world that is overshadowed by Tomb Raider. There may be a few lead female characters that are eclipsed by Lara Crofts breasts, but never the game itself.
I didn't find the system very friendly at all... In fact it seemed painful.
NWN is quite boring in itself, but players have created their own dungeons which are all by far much better than the single player campaign. Or so I've heard.
The last good Roleplaying game I've experienced was Knights of the Old Republic. While they don't offer anything completely revolutionary or stunning they do give you real choices that truely affect the people and plot around you. It's not open ended, but I think it has three different endings. I'm not entirely sure as I haven't bothered to finish it yet. (Soooo close.... The hordes of Dark Jedi slow me.) It's soo pretty...
Although you don't own an Xbox or a PS2 as you've said. It's only available on those consoles.
I bought the game a few years ago when I was ummm... 12? I didn't have the patience for it then, maybe I have to reinstall it and actually play through the game. Fear the raging 6th grader ADD power.
<a href='http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=28574&highlight=restoration' target='_blank'>http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?...ght=restoration</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In a nutshell, PST has a great deal of really good things that just wasn't
included in the final release (i.e. The Pendant of Yemeth quest...Spell Keys...etc)...this is the restoration of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neck cracking sound restored to game. Refferenced very often.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
Unfortunately, Planescape stands pretty much alone. As far as deep 'express yourself' RPGs go, you already named the best with Fallout, DX, and Torment. I'd prolly add Arcanum, which doesn't reach any of them but is still a more than solid title.
As far as other RPGs with extensive NPC interaction go, I'd suggest the two Gothics, whom I share a love-hate relationship with, and KOTOR, which I found in no way as amazing as some, but it remains good enough to entertain.
[edit]Testament: Torment is based on the Planescape universe of D&D, so yes, it uses the same rules, although their application is a little different than the Forgotten Realms titles.[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You forgot Baldurs Gate Nem <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Damn, I was <i>sure</i> he had put that in the initial post...
Let me note that I consider BG2 (not Throne of Bhaal) the by far best game of the series. I'd suggest forgetting about the rest and simply getting it.
She'll take you somewhere cool...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need 16 CHR for that.
<!--QuoteBegin--Pulse+Jan 3 2004, 07:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Jan 3 2004, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and the voice acting is very well done for the most part (Dak'kon is a bit iffy).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
His voice is done by Mitch Pileggi (Skinner from the X-Files). Check out the other voice actors in the game <a href='http://www.mobygames.com/game/credits/gameId,648/' target='_blank'>here</a>, including Dan Castellaneta (Homer Simpson) as Nordom.
Thanks for all the work you've done with the bug fixes!
Great points-totting/skill-switching mechanism
Great story
Excellent writing
Fantastic dialogue
Magnificent voice acting
Poignant music
Addictive gameplay
Best game ever! At least for me...
The Balders Gate series is everything that KOTOR isn't. Much more fighting, with most of the D&D 3rd ed rules in place, and pretty much lacks out on the best thing of all about KOTOR: really pulling you in to the story.
I had to do it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thanks.
<!--QuoteBegin--taboofires+Jan 6 2004, 12:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Jan 6 2004, 12:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Balders Gate series is everything that KOTOR isn't. Much more fighting, with most of the D&D 3rd ed rules in place<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3rd ed didn't exist at the time.
I plan on playing KOTOR only after buying a video card that will run it. I'm going to finish all of the older games I've been trying to "get out of the way," like Jagged Alliance 2, before upgrading for Deus Ex 2, HL2, and KOTOR.
That hint [spoiler!] about talking to the lead zombie woman in the dead nations would've been a massive spoiler had I read it just 3 hours earlier than I did. I made my character with the same things in mind as when I made one for Fallout: any party member can fight, but as the talker and representative of my group, I'm the only one who can speak. So I set strength, endurance, and constitution all to their minimums of 9 from the start, and pumped up intelligence, charisma, and wisdom. By now I still have those other 3 stats at only 9, but have stats between 17-19 for the others. Dialogue options are <i>not</i> a problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> . You can probably already guess my Fallout character had a charisma of 9, then 10, but strength of only 4 before power armor. And people say charisma is useless <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm assuming fairly few of you have heard of the game Drakan compared to the much more famous Tomb Raider. Here's a comparison:
Lara Croft, Tomb Raider:
<img src='http://www.cosmopolis.ch/croft.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Rynn, rider of the dragon Arokh (flying and fighting other dragons is quite fun in-game, by the way):
<img src='http://www.surreal-news.com/images/rynn/03.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
First off, swords+magic+wisecracking dragon+leather <b>></b> wimpy akimbo pistols + skintight tanktop. Secondly, Rynn's voice acting was done by the same voice actress who did the Hive and Command Chair voices in NS. Drakan owns Tomb Raider, no contest.
It's a pity I can't find an image of Rynn and/or Arokh more like the poster I got in one of my PCGamer mags from several years back.
[edit]And in case you were wondering about Drakan still: it's old enough to be about $5-10 in the bargain bins these days (I got it free with a sound card). It's played from 3rd person whether on foot or flying, 1st when using bow&arrow. Linear enough that in some cases you'll have to fly or have to be on foot, but other times you can choose. Weapons & inventory are handled more like so-called RPGs such as Diablo instead of like Tomb Raider or other 3rd/1st person action games. Flying may remind you of the Descent series, minus the nausea from there being no distinctive "up" direction.
And fly-by-toasting of pathetic little orc-like creatures is lots and lots of sadistic fun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The EBGames in my area is considerably overpriced for new software. Enough so that it gets very little traffic, so its bargain bins are filled with classics that people have walked by. I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to find what I want in the bargain bins of CompUSA, Best Buy, or EBGames.
First time in any RPG where I felt a pang of guilt after sacrificing all my NPC's to their death.
Don't put INT higher than 21, there's no advantage (except a Lore bonus). The highest INT that gives a bonus to Mage abilities is 19. The 21 is for a few dialog options.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Jan 6 2004, 01:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Jan 6 2004, 01:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Apparently PST is out of print. Cruel fate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, Interplay lost the rights to the game.
Where's them CDs?
[edit]By the way, I checked eBay and Amazon yesterday. Purchasing a copy in good condition is a question of a little patience and twenty bucks.[/edit]
Spoiler?;
There is also one dialog check for WIS 24. I put it to 25 anyway for the XP bonus a high WIS gives.
And if you play the game many times, you <i>have</i> to play it at least once with 25 CON for the regeneration rate.