Texture Lighting Is Being Stupid
Erias
Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19878Members
Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19878Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I am going insane.</div> Yeah, so texture lighting makes the light-emitting texture stupidly bright. I'm well aware of that. But I've seen a lot of maps that seemingly pull off texture lights that don't look too bad (ns_hera uses a whole load of 'em, ns_veil has some really nice bright, high-contrast detail lights that sure as heck look like texture lights.) And they certainly don't look like they're using overlays (you can't make a func_wall or func_illusionary for every little light, anyways, entity counts would go through the roof.) I'm also aware that the really dark or pitch black parts (r0, g0, b0) of a texture light stay pretty dark while the lighter parts of the texture are brightened exponentially, which is useful to know when using/making light textures.
Anyways, so I set somma this shat up in my map. I've pulled off some decent plain texture-lights before.
<i>The light texture is a white blob</i>! The black parts stay black (as I said) but all the detail, no matter what I do (RAD settings, env_gamma, darkening the heck out of the texture, whatever) is pretty much a <i>totally flat, bright color.</i> This goes for green, blue, white, whatever. (We're not talking fullbright, we're talking every rgb value over, like, 16 being 255.)
Am I going crazy? Have all those "texture lights" I've seen just been light entities or something? Is there some magical fix or arcane lighting formula I'm not aware of? Are texture lights pretty much <i>totally useless without overlays</i>?!?!
Help me out, anyone?
[edit] I did notice that, in some cases, the problem lessens very slightly (some detail shows up) if there is ambient light shining on the lit texture... although, realistically, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense...
Anyways, so I set somma this shat up in my map. I've pulled off some decent plain texture-lights before.
<i>The light texture is a white blob</i>! The black parts stay black (as I said) but all the detail, no matter what I do (RAD settings, env_gamma, darkening the heck out of the texture, whatever) is pretty much a <i>totally flat, bright color.</i> This goes for green, blue, white, whatever. (We're not talking fullbright, we're talking every rgb value over, like, 16 being 255.)
Am I going crazy? Have all those "texture lights" I've seen just been light entities or something? Is there some magical fix or arcane lighting formula I'm not aware of? Are texture lights pretty much <i>totally useless without overlays</i>?!?!
Help me out, anyone?
[edit] I did notice that, in some cases, the problem lessens very slightly (some detail shows up) if there is ambient light shining on the lit texture... although, realistically, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense...
Comments
However, this problem gets curiouser and curiouser... I rediculously darkened the holy hell out of the light texture, and it turned out looking semi-decent (although the texture is pretty useless if it's not a texture light.)
<b>Then</b>, later on, I had a problem with my video settings (every now and then HL goes on the blink) and when I was screwing around in different video modes trying to find a fix that didnt involved restarting the computer, I noticed the texture lights in the map now appeared <i>properly</i>! (There was no re-compiling involved, either.) So who knows... this is the Half-Life engine folks, the only graphics engine capable of making people go bald... or blind... or <i>crazy</i>. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, is the problem fixed, like permanently now? If not you might try re-installing the graphics card drivers(make sure you properly wipe them out by first using add/remove program and then a third party app to make sure no stray registry entries or files are left before re-installing the drivers).
EDIT: Am I crazy or is any brightness over ~400-500 insanely high?
EDIT: Am I crazy or is any brightness over ~400-500 insanely high? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not insane if you're running compile values of gamma .7/.8
Hell, I <b>HAVE</b> to use light values of nearly 1000 to compensate for my -gamma .9 -fade 1.125.
EDIT: Am I crazy or is any brightness over ~400-500 insanely high? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not insane if you're running compile values of gamma .7/.8
Hell, I <b>HAVE</b> to use light values of nearly 1000 to compensate for my -gamma .9 -fade 1.125. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoa.. hmm, I use 100 - 200 as default.
Maybe I'll play with the gamma soon, I think my map overall is a bit too dark.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the brightness of the texture is supposed to be taken from the r g b values not the brightness value(but this as you said, is not what's happening here). So if you set it to 64 0 0 10000 it should then be quite a dim red texture light but it should light up the map like a christmas tree.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried that, and the texture was a little bit dimmer, but the illumination was too. Apparently the magnitude of the rgb values, as well as the color ratio, affect the brightness.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, is the problem fixed, like permanently now? If not you might try re-installing the graphics card drivers(make sure you properly wipe them out by first using add/remove program and then a third party app to make sure no stray registry entries or files are left before re-installing the drivers).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think nothin's fixed... but yeah, my drivers could probably use another update. I find it hard to believe, however, that a problem with my graphics drivers would cause my map's texture lights to be the only thing effected. Other maps, and other in-game effects, appear as they should.
Lastly, one thing came to mind... could HLRAD be changed so that there is an option for light-emitting textures to remain lit normally and not appear fullbright? Couldn't the light source they produce be moved a little bit away from the face if it isn't already, and just be used to light the texture normally? That would be awesome. Hell, if I could get my hands on the HLRAD source code, I'd try it myself...
In the default NS mapping guidelines it says not to use extremely 'rich' color combinations - instead mild settings in between. Just grab the default lights.rad... its around somewhere
The only way to make a transparent texture is to use a brush entity. And essentially what you're talking about is using overlays, which I already mentioned, along with the fact that the use of entities must be minimized. So... this idea doesn't work, unfortunately.
[edit]
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sounds to me like your colors are just messed up...
In the default NS mapping guidelines it says not to use extremely 'rich' color combinations - instead mild settings in between. Just grab the default lights.rad... its around somewhere<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's try point form:
- There's a "default" lights.rad? I don't think so.
- I'm using custom textures anyways.
- Some lights aren't colored, and besides, its just a fricking RGB value.
- I'm no n00b at making .rad files
In conclusion, no, that's not the problem either.
Erm... did either of you actually read more than half a post in this thread?
Well, thanks anyways. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It will give off light, even if it is an ent. I tried it myself on a bit of Ambeke and it worked fine(assigning rad values to a brush ent's texture). Then again, people will start to wonder where the colored lighting is coming from...
It will give off light, even if it is an ent. I tried it myself on a bit of Ambeke and it worked fine(assigning rad values to a brush ent's texture). Then again, people will start to wonder where the colored lighting is coming from... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you put it in front of a light texture, obviously. The light ent illuminates the light, making it look like it's lit up.
Legionnared and Zazi: Uhh... how many times do I have to say that using brush entities is not an option? You might have noticed that there are <i>guidlines</i> and <i>limits</i>... so you can't have every little light use an entity. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Sure, some bigger, fancier or more detailed light sources can use an overlay or two (this looks just dandy, and there are a zillion newbie tutorials out there telling you how to do it) but, although brush entities do make things look nice, I can't use them for <i>everything</i>, including the problem I am talking about.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The marine spawn is semi_lit, yet the texlights are uber bright.