Training Mode Ie. Hazard Course Anyone?
Crazyhowie
Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14330Members
Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14330Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Just wondering...</div> I post here every once in awhile, but do come here and check out the topics quite a bit.
Not sure if this has been discussed, if so, not for quite a while in these forums I've seen. This is kind of a suggesstion, but more of an open discussion. It seems like there is always an issue with noobs on NS. Either people are sick of playing with noobs, or noobs are having a hard time starting. Did the NS dev team ever think about doing a in-game training mode of some sort? Take for example, the Hazard course in Half-life. It went over pretty much the basics, but allowed the player to get a feel for the game. Usually when I buy a new game or check out a mod for something I don't consult the manual. The manual works for some people I'm sure, but not everyone learns like that. Some people are more visual and need more of an interactive learning experience. But when I check out a game, I run around by myself to check things out or go through any training mode later if there is one to see if I missed any important concepts to the game. I know something like a training mode would be very possible through scripted sequences and such. Even a lesser interactive training mode, where images are scrolled past the user or a person is riding a train and seeing things in action (Half-life example again.) Unreal Expanded Multiplayer's method of a tutorial consisted of just clicking on topics. Each topic would display an image and explain what it was or what it had to do with gameplay. I'm sure the manual is great, never had to use it. I just learned through experience, but it seems some people need more of a jump start. Anyways, that's my thoughts. I guess tell me what you think, or even come up with your own fun ideas of ways to create a in-game tutorial experience for the player.
Not sure if this has been discussed, if so, not for quite a while in these forums I've seen. This is kind of a suggesstion, but more of an open discussion. It seems like there is always an issue with noobs on NS. Either people are sick of playing with noobs, or noobs are having a hard time starting. Did the NS dev team ever think about doing a in-game training mode of some sort? Take for example, the Hazard course in Half-life. It went over pretty much the basics, but allowed the player to get a feel for the game. Usually when I buy a new game or check out a mod for something I don't consult the manual. The manual works for some people I'm sure, but not everyone learns like that. Some people are more visual and need more of an interactive learning experience. But when I check out a game, I run around by myself to check things out or go through any training mode later if there is one to see if I missed any important concepts to the game. I know something like a training mode would be very possible through scripted sequences and such. Even a lesser interactive training mode, where images are scrolled past the user or a person is riding a train and seeing things in action (Half-life example again.) Unreal Expanded Multiplayer's method of a tutorial consisted of just clicking on topics. Each topic would display an image and explain what it was or what it had to do with gameplay. I'm sure the manual is great, never had to use it. I just learned through experience, but it seems some people need more of a jump start. Anyways, that's my thoughts. I guess tell me what you think, or even come up with your own fun ideas of ways to create a in-game tutorial experience for the player.
Comments
As for the flying skulk... Maybe someone would run around real quick with a fake skulk on a stick and you have to shoot it?
That's how they do jetfighter training in Russia.
But also, dont' forget the most important training of all
There has to be a room with the Armory in it, where the goal is to collect as much ammo as possible... basically, hump-training.
I know there are already readily built building entities for maps (CCs and hives? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) and nonbuilt stuff (Saw a combat map end because the CC wasn't flagged as built, etc.), so it's certainly possible.. It'll just take a mapper a while to map it out and get approval and whatnot.
I also brought up NS Safari, NS Gauntlet, and other alternative modes haha - more later p'raps
It sounds like after 3.0, they're taking a much needed break and from all the balance changes I'm sure they'll reconsider doing one.
Yes lets breath life back into this IDEA!
Posted: Oct 18 2003, 09:21 AM
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Recently there has been an influx of threads by people unsatisfied with the NS Pub experience. They claim that, "NS is dying" or that "Pubs are no-fun". The most common factors I see being raised are newbies and uncooperative players.
NS, Pubs, and Newbies: Cultivating a Bigger, Better Player Base
From my experience the the Pub population has not declined, but it seems to me the quality of players has not risen. I feel this is due to new players taking a long time to learn NS and develop the proper Teamplay attitude.
This game requires you to know a few things before you are of any use to a team, the "I'll-Just-Figure-It-Out-Ingame" attitude will not hack it in NS. Faced with scores of "Pick-Up-and-Play" FPS titles it may be necessary to do all you can to make sure new players take the time to learn these things.
The result of inadaquete training or "I'll-Just-Figure-It-Out-Ingame" is problematic for the newbie, the growth of the game, and even regular players. If new players don't lose interest immediately, or get harassed to the point of quitting, the time they spend as newbies will serve only to frustrate their team and regular players who become tired of dealing with them.
NS has unique experiences to offer, namely Teamplay and the RTS-FPS style dynamic. I think more should be done to close the gap between newbie and novice so people can quickly begin to appreciate and enjoy the finer points of NS. I'm certain once they've had a taste they will be back for more. The developers needs to take steps to make the game friendly to newbies, and the community has to support them in cultivating a bigger, better teamplayer base.
I've been saying some of these things for ages and often with little response from the developers but I'll give it another go...
1. Training Map
Design a simple looking training map that takes a player through the structures, basic actions, goals, and locations. Functionality is more important then looks here, just pump out a training map ASAP for the next version. If it is possible force new players to do both the training maps for Marines and Aliens before the option to join a server is enabled.
2. NS Guides
Bring the NS Guides back and have them officially sanctioned by the NS Team. Organize them, advertise them, give them a website, a special icon, and get Guides on as many servers as possible. A training map is useful for a basic introduction of NS but some sort of liaison will help make the transition easier from standard DM/TDM FPS environment to our truly Teamplay FPS environment.
3. Newbie Servers or "Newbie Hours"
There should be servers dedicated to training newbies or have several servers host newbie hours at different times of the day. Once that is set up ADVERTISE THEM. Environment have to be created where newbies can ask questions without the annoyed, customary reaction of, "RTFM." If the Guides are properly organized with good coverage then there will be less need for many Newbie Servers but anytime there is a rush of new players (ie. release of new version) servers should be provided to facilitate proper cultivation of newbies to teamplayers.
4. The Community Factor
In another post [SuB] wrote, "If everyone puts in just a little bit into educating new players, focusing on what counts and having faith, NS probably has a fairly decent life ahead of it. If not, we will see it wither and die with age and lack of interest." If "helping people" is not your thing simply not harassing, getting overly annoyed or making fun of newbies will help make the community more open and friendly. It is especially important for prominent, "Icon'd" members of the community such as Vets and PTs to set a good example for people to follow.
I think #1-3 are steps the should have been taken upon the release of NS back in v1. The NS team should work to make NS more newbie-friendly ASAP. Pubs and Newbies are vitally important to the future of NS and #4 is what we could all do to ensure this great game gets more popular and the spirit of TEAMPLAY remains with us for a long time to come.
EDiT: Typos
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I've been saying stuff like this for a long time... my last attempt recieved like <10 posts and nothing from anyone remotely "official". If NS was to be reviewed tommorow by all the official, respected, and popular game sites out there how many would say the lack of some sort of tutorial is a minus.
I like some of your suggestions and I agree with a Training Mode. I hope you have better luck then I did convincing them one is necessary.
(and full upgrades)
Maybe infitie ammo still, but make it so there is still reload....
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Recently there has been an influx of threads by people unsatisfied with the NS Pub experience. They claim that, "NS is dying" or that "Pubs are no-fun". The most common factors I see being raised are newbies and uncooperative players....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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d('L')b \o/
This is the best post on this subject I have read in a long time!
A hazard course would be great with skulks falling from cielings, gorges running in circles, lerks making flybites, fades bouncing around and the onos finishing it by eating you.
- RD
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Recently there has been an influx of threads by people unsatisfied with the NS Pub experience. They claim that, "NS is dying" or that "Pubs are no-fun". The most common factors I see being raised are newbies and uncooperative players....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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d('L')b \o/
This is the best post on this subject I have read in a long time! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Majin. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I thought my post (old as it was it still rings true) was a reasonable summary of the current "Newbie Situation" along with a couple decent ideas to fix it. I don't think I've said anything new... just brought some old but gooder ideas back into the spotlight. Let's hope Flayra and Co. makes some strides to make NS easier to learn, the future kind of depends on it.
NS:C will be a fine way of introducing newcomers to the world of NS. However, as many people have mentioned, NS:C and NS has important fundamental differences that cannot be picked up from playing NS:C itself. NS:C is not a tutorial; it is a snack, a simple DMified version of NS. It is a version of NS that has most of the hardcore teamplay components stripped bare leaving nothing but the pure action behind
I think NS:C will do a fine job at sucking in people with shorter attention spans and an impatience for teamplay. Hopefully it will enthral people enough to inspire them to learn NS. But to throw NS:C at people and say this will teach you how to play NS is downright wrong.
It would definitely be a time consuming task to create a single player tutorial campaign for both Human and Alien. There's a lot of depth to NS, but the basics could be covered in a few short maps.
1) Human
a) Follow Orders from a Tutorial Commander
i) Build a small base.
ii) Defend a small base.
iii) Attack and secure a resource nozzle.
iv) Build an expansion to attack from.
v) Attack and Siege a hive.
b) Give orders to a Tutorial Squad.
i) Build a small base.
ii) Send squad to locate and secure a resource nozzle.
iii) Build an expansion to attack and siege a hive.
iv) Discuss and use waypoints.
2) Alien
a) Discuss and use each fighting class.
b) Discuss Gorge and they contributions to the alien team.
i) Build all three types of upgrade chambers.
ii) Build Defense and Offense Chambers.
iii) Locate and secure resource nozzles.
3) Strategy and Etiquette
a) What to do.
b) What NOT to do.
c) Discussion of the ethics of the game regarding cheating, exploiting, and griefing.
That's just a basic overview... It could be expanded greatly, and with scripted events could be done well by skilled map makers.
Secondly, I think that the tutorial should, much like the old manual, be centered around the marine point-of-view. You get the data you need on the Kharaa, but it doesn't really go into too many specifics. This is because marines is where most newbies should be learning how to play anyway. It's much simpler, you have projectile weapons, and people telling you what to do (an important thing to have when you're new) is SOP. Letting newbies play around in a skulk for a few minutes and think they know how to handle alien-side could result in quite a few frustrated n00bs. By contrast, that's really all the training you need on marine side, because you'll get plenty of help figuring out strategies and more complex stuff once you're in the game.