The Morning After Pill
That_Annoying_Kid
Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
[Just a little note, I've listened to loveline which is a nationally syndicated call in radio show that focuses on problems, anyone can call up and get advice from Dr. Drew Pinsky a board certified internest and a specialist in addiction medicine, Dr. Drew is one of the reasons that I know about the morning after pill, and recently <a href='http://www.iht.com/articles/121955.html' target='_blank'>FDA legislation</a> was passed to allow it to go over the counter, several states including California have already made it so that pharmacies can dispense the drug over the counter]
The morning after pill is basically a huge dosage of the hormones that a female would take every day as oral contraception, the morning after pill can be taken up to 72 hours after unprotected sex or a failure of contraception that was in place [It is not a main form of contraception i.e condom, but is meant for use if one should fail etc] but is show to be most effective when taken within 24 hours. The morning after pill either prevents the ovary from releasing the egg, so the sperm can't fertalize it, or making it so the egg won't attach to the uterus.
The morning after pill isn't a pleasant experience and leads to nausea, vomiting, abnormal bleeding [due to the lining of the uterus being flushed like a period] and it costs about 20-30 dollars per kit [it's one main does and then a smaller one 12 hours later I'm not sure becuase thats off the top of my head but I know it
is a larger does and a smaller does for sure]
<a href='http://www.all.org/issues/bc05.htm' target='_blank'>American Life Leauge oppinion on emergency contraception</a>
<a href='http://www.afterabortion.org/PAR/V6/n4/birthcontrol.htm' target='_blank'>Elliot institue article</a>
<-- those articles are anti abortion and are writen by organizations with religous ties, yay for showing people both sides
<a href='http://sexuality.about.com/cs/contraception/p/morningafter.htm' target='_blank'>This is a more neutral site about EC</a>
The opponents of the morning after pill argue that it will increase the promiscuity of young people and that the pill is basically an abortion in disguise, if you want to find more about it do a quick <a href='http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22morning+after+pill%22&btnG=Google+Search&lr=' target='_blank'>Google search</a> on the matter and see with your own eyes
What do you think of the morning after pill?
Is it a good idea to make it over the counter?
What would be pro's con's etc?
Any issues you think are pertanint or relevant?
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:green'><b>INCOMING OPPINION!</span></b></span>
[be warned I'm biased towards making this over the counter, I'm "pro choice" which basically means I think that it's not mine, or anyones authority to tell someone what to do with their own body, the only person I have total control over is myself]
The morning after pill will cut down on the rate of abortions even more when it is over the counter than it is now, already many states have allowed pharamcies to keep doctors signatures for the morning after pill and let it be dispensed by them. The Medical definetion of pregnancy is when the egg is implanted in the uterus, and emergency contraception either prevents an egg from ever being released [sperm linger in the falopian tubes for 72 hours] and if an egg has been released the pill may prevent the fertilzed egg from being attached.
The thing that irks me about this issue [I'm breaking out with the blanket statements and flames, but not about anyone in particular on these forums] is that the opponents of abortion who used to be to busy pickiting abortion clinics and sending out newsletters and such fail to realize that this pill can make a huge dent in the number of actuall abortions that take place. But no, they don't want that at all. Since emergency contraception works exactly like any other 30 day birth control [like Ortho Evera or Ortho Tricyclen] and having abortion opponents oppose just EC and not all forms of oral contraception doesn't make sense becuase the mechanism is the same.
When it boils down to it people who care enough about anything just become moronic and retarted, be it people on the left like PETA who cry when they think about a kitten, or people on the right like the majority of the pro-life people who are to busy telling people what to do and not to do with. Most causes start out good but soon become to fanatical [like vegans and vegetarians, vegetarians will eat green and health, but vegans won't touch anything that has to do with animals] and the groups who want to act out like throwing red dye on people wearing mink, or harassing abortion clinics are just taking things way to far. Also the groups that say the morning after pill will make young people more promiscus due to the fact that it takes the risk out of sex are being ignorant to the fact that the only true way to prevent pregnancy is to be abstinant, BUT THE THING IS TEENAGERS WILL STILL GO OUT AND HAVE SEX. You can *tell* kids to not smoke weed and drink soda, but they still will.
EC will stop thousands of potential abortions and yet the still want nothing to do with it, and even though it's off topic it also bugs me we have to act like we respect these nutjobs who didn't get laid in highschool and want to tell people what to do and not view the other side of the story, can't we as a society just turn on these people? Abstinince is the only true 100% effective way to not get any STD's or getting pregnant, but if you put any horny angsty male teenager in a position to bang the bejesus out of some chick and if he doesn't have that little sprinkle of faith or religion or convition that wants him to not do such, the vast majority of the time they will go at it like rabbits, and even if they use a condom and it breaks, why are they so blatantly against EC <!--QuoteBegin-- The article from the "elliot institution+ 2nd link out of the three given--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( The article from the "elliot institution @ 2nd link out of the three given)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Lie number one: "EC is highly effective." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It still lowers the chance of pregnancy and that is alot better than doing nothing about it. You can try and convince people but you find groups who just won't listen. Kind of like if we left Israel alone do you think the fighting would stop, or continue on as it has for ages?
please remember that the above is my oppinion and is based on the thoughts from my head. I will be much less hostile when discussing this with the other forumites, i'm just a passionate passionate man like Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla [loveline hosts] Also credit is due where it is deserved and I borrowed Mr. Corolla's idea's on my more ranty blanket statment part of this post. I also wasted the better part of a block period posting this [roughly 2 hours] in which I was supposed to do a math test <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
The morning after pill is basically a huge dosage of the hormones that a female would take every day as oral contraception, the morning after pill can be taken up to 72 hours after unprotected sex or a failure of contraception that was in place [It is not a main form of contraception i.e condom, but is meant for use if one should fail etc] but is show to be most effective when taken within 24 hours. The morning after pill either prevents the ovary from releasing the egg, so the sperm can't fertalize it, or making it so the egg won't attach to the uterus.
The morning after pill isn't a pleasant experience and leads to nausea, vomiting, abnormal bleeding [due to the lining of the uterus being flushed like a period] and it costs about 20-30 dollars per kit [it's one main does and then a smaller one 12 hours later I'm not sure becuase thats off the top of my head but I know it
is a larger does and a smaller does for sure]
<a href='http://www.all.org/issues/bc05.htm' target='_blank'>American Life Leauge oppinion on emergency contraception</a>
<a href='http://www.afterabortion.org/PAR/V6/n4/birthcontrol.htm' target='_blank'>Elliot institue article</a>
<-- those articles are anti abortion and are writen by organizations with religous ties, yay for showing people both sides
<a href='http://sexuality.about.com/cs/contraception/p/morningafter.htm' target='_blank'>This is a more neutral site about EC</a>
The opponents of the morning after pill argue that it will increase the promiscuity of young people and that the pill is basically an abortion in disguise, if you want to find more about it do a quick <a href='http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22morning+after+pill%22&btnG=Google+Search&lr=' target='_blank'>Google search</a> on the matter and see with your own eyes
What do you think of the morning after pill?
Is it a good idea to make it over the counter?
What would be pro's con's etc?
Any issues you think are pertanint or relevant?
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:green'><b>INCOMING OPPINION!</span></b></span>
[be warned I'm biased towards making this over the counter, I'm "pro choice" which basically means I think that it's not mine, or anyones authority to tell someone what to do with their own body, the only person I have total control over is myself]
The morning after pill will cut down on the rate of abortions even more when it is over the counter than it is now, already many states have allowed pharamcies to keep doctors signatures for the morning after pill and let it be dispensed by them. The Medical definetion of pregnancy is when the egg is implanted in the uterus, and emergency contraception either prevents an egg from ever being released [sperm linger in the falopian tubes for 72 hours] and if an egg has been released the pill may prevent the fertilzed egg from being attached.
The thing that irks me about this issue [I'm breaking out with the blanket statements and flames, but not about anyone in particular on these forums] is that the opponents of abortion who used to be to busy pickiting abortion clinics and sending out newsletters and such fail to realize that this pill can make a huge dent in the number of actuall abortions that take place. But no, they don't want that at all. Since emergency contraception works exactly like any other 30 day birth control [like Ortho Evera or Ortho Tricyclen] and having abortion opponents oppose just EC and not all forms of oral contraception doesn't make sense becuase the mechanism is the same.
When it boils down to it people who care enough about anything just become moronic and retarted, be it people on the left like PETA who cry when they think about a kitten, or people on the right like the majority of the pro-life people who are to busy telling people what to do and not to do with. Most causes start out good but soon become to fanatical [like vegans and vegetarians, vegetarians will eat green and health, but vegans won't touch anything that has to do with animals] and the groups who want to act out like throwing red dye on people wearing mink, or harassing abortion clinics are just taking things way to far. Also the groups that say the morning after pill will make young people more promiscus due to the fact that it takes the risk out of sex are being ignorant to the fact that the only true way to prevent pregnancy is to be abstinant, BUT THE THING IS TEENAGERS WILL STILL GO OUT AND HAVE SEX. You can *tell* kids to not smoke weed and drink soda, but they still will.
EC will stop thousands of potential abortions and yet the still want nothing to do with it, and even though it's off topic it also bugs me we have to act like we respect these nutjobs who didn't get laid in highschool and want to tell people what to do and not view the other side of the story, can't we as a society just turn on these people? Abstinince is the only true 100% effective way to not get any STD's or getting pregnant, but if you put any horny angsty male teenager in a position to bang the bejesus out of some chick and if he doesn't have that little sprinkle of faith or religion or convition that wants him to not do such, the vast majority of the time they will go at it like rabbits, and even if they use a condom and it breaks, why are they so blatantly against EC <!--QuoteBegin-- The article from the "elliot institution+ 2nd link out of the three given--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( The article from the "elliot institution @ 2nd link out of the three given)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Lie number one: "EC is highly effective." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It still lowers the chance of pregnancy and that is alot better than doing nothing about it. You can try and convince people but you find groups who just won't listen. Kind of like if we left Israel alone do you think the fighting would stop, or continue on as it has for ages?
please remember that the above is my oppinion and is based on the thoughts from my head. I will be much less hostile when discussing this with the other forumites, i'm just a passionate passionate man like Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla [loveline hosts] Also credit is due where it is deserved and I borrowed Mr. Corolla's idea's on my more ranty blanket statment part of this post. I also wasted the better part of a block period posting this [roughly 2 hours] in which I was supposed to do a math test <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
It might cut abortion down some, but I doubt it'll be drastic. Either way I have no opinion on it being OTC. People can do what they want. /shrug
The major problem i see with this pill is that it has the potential to do more evil than good. Kids will use this as an excuse not to use a condom, believe me they will. The number of STD cases in teens will increase.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> all spelling errors are for artistic merit <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Taking the morning after pill isn't a pleasant experience, and the cost would limit the misuse
The MAP isn't an excuse to not use other forms of contraception any more than using just condoms or just The Pill is an excuse. If you don't use contraception, or rely on only one kind, you're not just an idiot, you're going to be a parent.
This little rant might make people think I'm against sex. Hell no, everyone is welcome to have as much sex as they want, and all this nonsense about "corrupting our youth" and "promoting a deviant lifestyle" ignores the fact that teenagers are going to have sex, and if they are, we might as well try and teach them how to do it responsably and correctly. Proper education in the field of contraception is absolutely paramount.
The major problem i see with this pill is that it has the potential to do more evil than good. Kids will use this as an excuse not to use a condom, believe me they will. The number of STD cases in teens will increase.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> all spelling errors are for artistic merit <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why take resposibility? why not let the people decide if they want to use condom?
Just a correction... you DO NOT take it every day; you take it once, within 24 hours of your having unprotected sex. To take it every day would be a horrible strain on your system.
Planned Parenthood will only allot you one per month, as I recall, so it's not exactly a good fallback plan for kids who plan on using it constantly (with cost in mind).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not even close. It's around the 70% mark, which isn't a good bet when you're betting on a pregnancy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean the morning-after pill? I think it's actually a lot higher, over 80%. Not sure though, I don't have the literature that comes with it on me at the moment.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Statistically, you'd have to have constant sex for 10,000 years to fall pregnant when using condoms and The Pill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, because the chance is generated with each act of unprotected sex; it's not calculated as "it will only happen x times out of y." Unless that's what you meant, and I just misunderstood, in which case my apologies <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now... my responses to the original post.
What do you think of the morning after pill? I think it's a good fallback option to have available. Though it does of course need to be regulated.
Is it a good idea to make it over the counter? If you mean simply purchaseable at a drugstore, yes; though for something like this, I would advise it to be for 18+ only so that kids don't simply think they can walk in and pick it up anytime. Perhaps every dosage of it should be dispensed with literature about the pill (or even better the monthly shot, which takes the place of the daily pill).
What would be pro's con's etc? Cons would be misuse, obviously. Kids thinking that they can just use it every time instead of using the daily pill, that sort of thing. Pros would be cutting down on all the pregnancies that could have been prevented, which results in less unwanted kids.
Any issues you think are pertanint or relevant? All I would say is that religion or morals should be irrelevant in this case. There can't be judgement calls on every single case in which the pill would/should/could be used, and especially not when morals are variable.
Yeah pretty much, but no apology needed, I wasn't very clear. My fiancee worked it out at something like 0.0001% chance per sexual act, which worked out to something approaching 10,000 years. Regardless, it's the best method to use if you're actually going to have sex.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You mean the morning-after pill? I think it's actually a lot higher, over 80%. Not sure though, I don't have the literature that comes with it on me at the moment.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember reading in a biology textbook that it was 70%. It's not as effective as The Pill either way though.
Essentially, I think that if you're going to just rely on the Pill, or condoms, or the MAP, you're taking a big risk. Having unprotected sex if you're not in strong relationship and are prepared to have children is just a bad idea. Having unprotected sex with someone you just met borders on insane. The MAP isn't foolproof, just like the rest of contraceptive devices. Oh it's useful, but you really shouldn't place yourself in a situation where you have to use it. People make mistakes though and that's what the MAP is for.
The question of misuse is an interesting one, but looking at the two major forms of female contraception, The Pill and the MAP, it's pretty clear that The Pill comes out on top: less side effects, reduced period pain, and costs less, at least here in Australia. The question must be: do people currently misuse other contraception forms? The answer is unfortunatly yes: people assume that if you're on The Pill you can't get pregnant, or if you wear a condom you're in no risk, but the Pill can fail and condoms can break. I don't think there's a greater potential for the MAP to be abused or misused, especially if people are made aware that at best, the MAP isn't guareenteed.
Again, I think that education is paramount. If you teach people how to use contraceptives properly, you can minimise the risks whilst still enjoying great sex.
It's certainly better than 'Oh, I got raped/Oh I had too much to drink/Oh the condom broke! I guess I just have to have this baby now!' Grown, cognizant people have more rights than a cell.
Sex is a serious thing, I think Ryo-Ohki hit that pretty hard. Any time you have intercourse, you have to be prepared to accept the potential consequences, be those an STD or pregnancy. If someone chooses to have sex, protected or not and ends up becoming a parent, it's their own damn fault. Plain and simple. Start looking up your local adoption agency, or figure how you're going to put him/her through college.
I think that someone who has been raped, date or otherwise, is really the only one with the moral right to use this sort of thing. They never had the choice whether or not to have that kid, so they should be given a choice. As much as I would urge against the actual use of such a thing, the MAP should be available, if for no other reason than to grant free will to victims of sexual assault.
Damn straight. When you're essentially dealing with a potential human life, don't take chances.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
See, I'm pro-choice. However, i do think that the morning-after pill could be bad. Making it OTC is basically saying "Oh **** I got pregnant again! Oh well, I can just take my over-the-counter birth control pill, no biggie." I think that its giving young teens the wrong idea. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well condoms are availible over the counter, and to get The Pill all you need a prescription which any doctor will give someone over 18, or any girl with a note from her parents. It might be easier for someone to get the MAP than The Pill, but from what I've heard and seen of the side effects, any woman is going to not want to rely on the MAP.
Looking at the MAP, it becomes pretty clear why it is availble over the counter. You have to take it quite soon after sex, preferably as quickly as possible. You don't really have time to make a doctor's appointment, get a prescription and take it to a chemist, because by the time you've done all that, chances are taking the MAP won't do anything anyway.
Sex is a serious deal, although that doesn't mean people can't do it. Heck, skydiving is a serious deal but you don't jump without a parachute and a back-up 'chute. Same with sex: don't do it without the proper precautions, or be prepared to face the consequenses. The MAP doesn't change that: it's not 100% or even 90% effective, and no mature or educated woman is going to rely on the MAP. It's there as a last-ditch effort, for accidents, mistakes and rape. Almost every woman who is sexually active is still going to use The Pill and/or tell their partner to wear a condom.
Pro-Life: Its a life!
Pro-Choice: OMG RELIGION VIEW BAD!
I personally don't think it should be legal, so its tough for me to give an 'over the counter' opinion.
I DO think it sends a dangerous cultural message: Sex isn't important, if you make a mistake, go buy a pill without your parents knowing and you can fix it. Its yet another step in removing parents from their children's sex life in some cases. I think that is a very bad idea.
Pro-Life: Its a life!
Pro-Choice: OMG RELIGION VIEW BAD!
I personally don't think it should be legal, so its tough for me to give an 'over the counter' opinion.
I DO think it sends a dangerous cultural message: Sex isn't important, if you make a mistake, go buy a pill without your parents knowing and you can fix it. Its yet another step in removing parents from their children's sex life in some cases. I think that is a very bad idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no problem removing them from something that is not their business <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, I dont think it will be that big of a problem and I cant really see what message you are referring to Jammer <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you were to consider each gamete a human life, then you would logically have to conclude that nature murders a baby every time a woman has a period, or that when a guy masturbates he is literally comitting millions of murders. I think this is a preposterous view to take. Therefore I limit my definition of "a separate life" to fertilized zygotes.
*edit*
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I DO think it sends a dangerous cultural message: Sex isn't important, if you make a mistake, go buy a pill without your parents knowing and you can fix it. Its yet another step in removing parents from their children's sex life in some cases. I think that is a very bad idea. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to agree with you, but at the same time it's less of a matter of the legality of it as parents aren't taking the initiative to educate their children about how to take responsibility for their actions, something I'm worried that our entire culture is heading towards.
Have a history of violence? Blame it on the genes. Kill a few people? Blame it on a traumatic childhood or abusive parents. Just don't blame it on the person who actually did it, can't ever have that. /end sarcasm. I am really tired of people shoving their mistakes on other things. All this feel-good "it wasn't their fault" business really makes me angry.
This doesn't mean that I'm against the legality of contraceptives, I feel that it is possible not to send the wrong message, but that probably won't be the case here.
*edit* awkward word choice
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, the MAP isn't foolproof. It's only offering a 70 - 80% chance of stopping a potential pregnancy, and those just arn't good odds. Secondly, condoms are already availible just about anywhere, so teenagers already have cheap effective contraception. Thirdly, how on earth can it be a bad thing for your child to be using contraception? I'd much rather hear my child come home and say "I had sex last night and took a MAP this morning" than "I had sex last month and my periods have stopped". If a child is using the MAP then it shows that they understand the risks associated with sex, and odds are that they're going to explore other contraception measures as well seeing as the MAP causes some nasty side-effects.
Teenagers are going to have sexual experiances and sex. You can either tell them not to, and attempt to make them ignore their own bodies, in which case they will almost certainly go out and experiment with sex anyway, or you can take them aside and say "Sex can be a really pleasureable experiance but you have to be careful". Teach them, educate them, buy them some contraception and tell them how to use it. That way, when they do have sex, and they most probably will, they're best prepared for it and can do it responsably.
If your child is having sex without telling you then congratulations! You failed as a parent. Harsh but true. You failed to be open with your child and teach them about being responsable adults. Your child should feel that the first person they should talk to about sex should be you, their parent. Tell your kids that's it's a filthy sin that will make them go straight to hell and I guareentee you that your kid will go out and try hard to have sex. I was at a Catholic high school for 6 years of my life and the students there were just as sexually active than at the public school nearby, if not more so.
It's your responsability as a parent to teach your kids, and sex is one of those things you have to explain to them. Would you rather they got their education from other kids at school who'll come out with such gems as "If it's your first time you can't get pregnant" or "if you have a bath after sex you won't get pregnant" or even "I promise I won't come inside you so don't make me use a condom".
Also, it says "Don't think about your actions, they can be fixed tommorow with an easy pill." Isn't that a dangerous attitude to have with something as powerful as sex?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... it says "Don't think about your actions, they can be fixed tommorow with an easy pill."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is an unfortunate side effect of.
As for how the pill works, I misunderstood what it actually did, so I'll have to reconsider my position.
How sickening.
How sickening. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eagles are an endangered species. If humans were the same, the abortion rate would be rather low, don't you think?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The morning after pill works by stopping the uterus from accepting a fertilized egg. A person has already been conceived; you're just forcing the body to shoot it out and then flushing it down the toilet.
Also, it says "Don't think about your actions, they can be fixed tommorow with an easy pill." Isn't that a dangerous attitude to have with something as powerful as sex? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dangerous? No more so than a cure for AIDs would be. But why you say? Well, if there was a cure for AIDs, people would have unprotected sex more and just take the cure if they got sick. Does that mean we shouldn't try and find a cure for AIDs? No.
So everyone who gets pregnant should have the child, is that what you're saying? No matter the hardships that an unwanted child will have to suffer? The strain this will place on the world's resources as population numbers worldwide skyrocket? Children should only be born if they're coming into a family that wants them, is mature enough to take care of them, and is economically able to support them.
If you're going to take the view that anything that has the potential to become a life is alive, then heck I must have killed around 50 billion people by masturbating for the past 11 years. And every woman in the world kills a child with every period as well.
And once again we come down to religion vs science. Great. Fight it out amongst yourselves, I'm going to be over there playing some NS.
Ahhh that was a brilliant statement.
Forlorn:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It is illeagal to kill an eagle egg, and yet abortion is perfectly fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eagles are an endangered species that are basically on the verge of extinction (or were). Quite frankly, that was our fault (Go DDT!) and we managed to fix that. Naturally, destroying an eagles egg would be highly detrimental to the population so every single one is essential to the survival of the species.
On the other hand, things like the pill just ensure that one less human is born out of millions that are every single day. Really, the comparison is rather void, there are many human beings in the world and stopping one from potentially being born isn't going to devastate the entire human race. Hence, your analogy is rather flawed from that standpoint.
Then we simply go into arguing as to just how important we regard destroying a ball of undifferentiated cells, or in this case, something that may not even have gotton that far. Probably it should go to whoever uses it inevitably to make up their own damn mind as to if they want to rather than anyone else. Does this suddenly mean that everyone will get the idea they cannot get pregnant, then start to have heaps of promiscuous sex and abort tons of babies? Probably not in the end, because that is technically alrealy happening and has been for quite some time now. With the human population as it is, sexual controls can probably be a good thing, especially as society gets more liberal in attitude to things like sex anyway. Having children that will be born into the worst possible conditions for life (I have a certain friend who has one such kid, never sees it anymore too) is probably not going to help society, or anyone, that much.
Like a plant. Or a muscle.
EDIT: If "killing" such a clump of cells is illegal, then we shouldn't use penicillin or any other medicin, because OMG teh bacteria are alife too!
When it has developed a brain though, then I can see why you would argue against it. However, the MAPill can't be used(successfully) at that stage anyway.
Fact is, most responsible people arent the ones using this stuff...they are abstaining, or raising kids in quality, nurturing environments...and if a child has no chance of receiving such love, and quality of life...why is it so important to you that they are born? You arent going to raise the child...all you can possibly acheive is suffering in most cases. Obviously Im talking about a specific aspect of society and not in general, but even though the numbers may be smaller than general...it doesnt make them any less significant. Happiness and love are far more important than mere existence...and the fact that one child will be born, die and never know love, simply because an irresponsible mother didnt use a condom, and had no secondary course of action is not enough to warrant forcing that child to be born.
Even though our bodies and minds are designed for the sole purpose of sex and procreation...I find it ironic that we have to prove to an employer that we have the skills, capabilities and responsability to carry out our duties before we can get a job...but theres no such test before engaging in the act that can have the greatest consequences of anything we will do in our entire lives.
How sickening. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eagles are an endangered species. If humans were the same, the abortion rate would be rather low, don't you think?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Human beings have reason, intelligence, free will, even the ability to contemplate on such abstract ideas. We have emotion, mathematics, recorded history, writing and philosophy. We are sentient beings, an eagle is just a "Clockwork Orange." I find that a single human life is exponentially more important then that of an eagle. When was the last time you saw an eagle develop a cure for a deadly disease, or compose a symphony?
Humans are amazing creatures. I don't care if we got this way because of evolution, or through God's creation, but a human life should be preserved above all other costs.
Like a plant. Or a muscle.
EDIT: If "killing" such a clump of cells is illegal, then we shouldn't use penicillin or any other medicin, because OMG teh bacteria are alife too!
When it has developed a brain though, then I can see why you would argue against it. However, the MAPill can't be used(successfully) at that stage anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Will that bacteria develop into a human?
Like a plant. Or a muscle.
EDIT: If "killing" such a clump of cells is illegal, then we shouldn't use penicillin or any other medicin, because OMG teh bacteria are alife too!
When it has developed a brain though, then I can see why you would argue against it. However, the MAPill can't be used(successfully) at that stage anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Will that bacteria develop into a human? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but without those bacteria that human is as good as dead. Hell our bacteria are probably more important to our life *directly* than other human beings and yet, most people have utterly no problem dropping the equivalent of nuclear weapons (penicillin, methicillin and other beta lactams) on them. Bacterial cells are in fact just as important to being 'human' as human cells are (which bacteria outnumber 10 to 1 incidently).
However, a ball of cells is still a ball of cells. It is not overly different than similar stem cells running through your blood right now, or those cells beginning to differentiate that are terminated by your own body for whatever reason.
It's like with people who try to commit suicide, who cares about their stupid mistake so lets just let them die and pay for it! Or people who hurt themselves by accident, they should pay for it by not having any medical help and live with their wounds for the rest of their lives.
People make mistakes of all kinds, EVERYONE should have the option to atone for it.