Oc Chamber Placement
InquisitiveIdiot
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21854Members
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21854Members
<div class="IPBDescription">They tell me it's possible</div> One of the more common threads in the S&I forum is the "OC blindspot" thread. This topic usually gives some suggestion to eliminate the blindspot on OCs (i.e. the wavy arms that contribute nothing) - be it removing the arms, making them shoot, or what have you.
Though many replies are positive, invariably someone will wander along with a comment like "Just place them where marines can't snipe them." Never, of course, are example configurations given.
In actual play, I've never come across an OC chamber setup that was completely immune to blind spots. I've see nests that tricked the marine into the open before firing, nests with OCs that were hard to find, but never any nests with OCs that <i>could not</i> be taken out by a lone marine, some ammo spam, and a hell of a lot of time.
Does anyone here have any suggestions for excellent chamber placement, or are the drive by posters full of hot air?
[edit] I might have a decent idea for a nest without blindspots. I'll have to check it in the game, but it seems very promising to me:
|....oo..|
|..o......|
---....---
2 |...|___
3 |....1....
4 --------
The lower left OC is placed in just the right spot to hit a marine turning the corner (1), while having its left "arm" blocked by the entrance to the room (2). The room OCs would prevent marines from sniping the first OC from the corridor (3,4). Not sure how often a design like this would come in handy, but it's a start.
Though many replies are positive, invariably someone will wander along with a comment like "Just place them where marines can't snipe them." Never, of course, are example configurations given.
In actual play, I've never come across an OC chamber setup that was completely immune to blind spots. I've see nests that tricked the marine into the open before firing, nests with OCs that were hard to find, but never any nests with OCs that <i>could not</i> be taken out by a lone marine, some ammo spam, and a hell of a lot of time.
Does anyone here have any suggestions for excellent chamber placement, or are the drive by posters full of hot air?
[edit] I might have a decent idea for a nest without blindspots. I'll have to check it in the game, but it seems very promising to me:
|....oo..|
|..o......|
---....---
2 |...|___
3 |....1....
4 --------
The lower left OC is placed in just the right spot to hit a marine turning the corner (1), while having its left "arm" blocked by the entrance to the room (2). The room OCs would prevent marines from sniping the first OC from the corridor (3,4). Not sure how often a design like this would come in handy, but it's a start.
Comments
Of course, keep in mind that a shotgun + medpacks will easily rip them apart after the first time (when they scratch their heads and wonder why they died), or they can grab a GL. The real purpose of the OC isn't to make sure the marines can't get past, but more to delay them so you can sneak up and bite their heads off <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Hope it helps a bit.
Near a significant height change.
In general, though, OCs are mostly for notification. If you place them such that they need to be destroyed before a rine can pass through an area, you're in the clear. Actually getting kills from them is usually bad, because it means the marines are pushing hard through an area, and are willing to sacrifice people to clear a WOL quickly.
"Static defenses are monuments to the stupidity of man"
Don't trust them too much <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Haha. I'm thinking of the Maginot Line when you made that quote.
Speaking of which, Walls of Lame (though not of 1.02 fame where the indefinite stacking of DC healing led to the creation of those legendary/bloodyannoying fortresses) are still somewhat effective at closing off a choke point, but require so much res to <i>put up*</i> (4 OCs + 4 DCs = 80 res) they're not worth the trouble.
<i>*Gee, I didn't know **** was a bleep-word. And I'm using it legitimately here to describe the putting up of a structure or monument, not to describe the arousal of a certain male organ. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> </i>
build like this
I-OC______--I
I_OC_______I
I__OC______I
IDCDC______I <-- wall here
IDCDC______I
I___OC_____I
this assumes a left turn. notice the secound OC is almost behind the first.
This way, they can't just inch their way out from the wall because they'll be shot in the back, and since the chambers are far away from the intersection, the angle between the wall and the outer part of the chamber is smaller and it's harder for marines to inch their way out into the hall-way
If I really want to make it a deterrent, I'll use 3 OC's on each side. Of course, this also works for a turn, but you loose the shoot in the back property of it.
I made this a while ago to try to illustrate it.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-21-1063668308.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
1. Place at least 3 OCs here and there in the room. Insure that they all will target and fire at a point near the room entrance at the same time. This may require you intentionally limiting the field of fire for some of them. That's fine. Just don't cluster them.
2. Place an SC in the room such that it covers all the OCs.
When a rambo hits the kill point, all the OCs should de-cloak and fire at once. If you placed the OCs correctly, the rambo will see one, maybe two before they die. If the rine has a photographic memory, they can then walk back and corner-strafe one of the OCs. More likely, they'll end up wasting ammo/grenades firing at nothing.
Plus you get the area sensory effect. Reinforced with a couple skulks, this setup can shut down a non-HA/JP marine push.
All the better if you can circle around them, skulk rushing from the back to force them forward to the OCs. Think of it like herding sheep.
2. cross fire
3. hidden
I always picture myself moving in as a marine, where I WOULDNT want the OCs to be. Try to place them so a marine wont see more than the top from the place they should be coming, then make it so that the can shoot one without being shot by the other. Making them see one OC and havin the rest hidden, might trick them into running in, trying to bypass the OC.
Placing OCs is an art...
I tend to place my OCs where they can see down a longish corridor (not longer than their range though) - that way, shotgunners cant dodge in and out from a wall, wiping them out, and its harder for GLs to pull of bounce shots - oh so easy if the OCs are just round a corner. I simply face up to the fact that a marine can get them from croucing round a corner, simply because it will take a long while, whereas shotgunners who can wipe out OC nest quick, have to charge the corridor, taking damage all the way.
When I have enough res in yet another of those Oh-look-we're-winning-ahead-by-5-RTs-and-and-we-have-loads-of-res-games, I like to set up traps with OCs and see how to make them efficient enough
My conclusion is to have alot of OCs fire at once on the rine, otherwise he can kill them off slowly/get medpacks
In Coolant-Distribution (I think its in ns_lost), I've found a good way, its where there's a small platform with the RT on it, and when you come from marines side, you have to run through the entire room to get to the RT-spot, although you can shoot and RT from down there
Anyway, when coming from the marine side, I make it so they can only see the RT.....I have DCs and Im gorge (healspray) if they shoot the RT
So when they move in, I have an OC standing on the back of the small RT-platform, so it shoots at the rine....and 100% (no kidding, all of them) marines go around the corner panicly dodging (ok, not panicly, but still) and then its supposed to be at least 5 OCs there.....not on each other, spread out, any marine who sees 5 OCs flee to where there is 1 OC in a heartbeat, so make sure theres only 2 OCs in his line of sight....this means 2 on each side of him......basicly, 2 in front of him, 2 on his left (those are easy) 1 on his right is also possible, you can jump over there, even as gorge (I often put 1 DC there too, out of sight) and then 2 on the high-ground behind him, with just their heads showing......this finishes a marine in less than a second, perhaps 1½ if he has max armor and isnt hurt earlier, but the fact that many ppl run run run from being hit from the first OC, is very helpfull.
Sadly, this only works once on skilled peeps (although on FFAservers n00bs really get **** off....come back for more, and I say "Plz come again" like Apu/Abu/Whatever in the Simpson, (with free res for me))
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> preventing them from getting coolant takes away an RT-point near their base, and blocks off 1 of 2 ways (3 if welder) to a hivepoint
But the idea is to finish them off quickly
against skilled playes this i one of the few cases where a traditional wall of lame will have a fighting chance.
mostly wols have degenerated into zones of lame at this point. see mos to the preceeding posts
[nitpick]It's "thank you, come again."[/nitpick]
You can use less chambers for more effect. And with a gorge lurking close by, they can be up forever, giving newborn skulks somewhere to go to for a quick kill to power their evolution.
They're killers, but no more than turrets. Just to hold back the enemy forces.
WTH is your team doing?
Also I find it effective to place OCs / towards each other instead of vertical or horizontal. never can nail em both. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
They're only killers in the same sense that spore spam is a killer - you need a very deranged alien player to hoard his res and a bunch of marines fool enough to wander towards him and sit there dying.
This comes from harsh experience. I have manned a 3 chamber zone of lame and wiped all comers because they insisted on LMGing. I have tried to hold someone elses hellish nightmare of a dozen chambers and watched them all get toasted to gl and sieges. OCs are only as good as the player who places them and the opponent who stands in front of one spamming "I is teh spiked"
if you have sensory, all the better
my ocs are merely annoying, causing the marines to:
a) be confused (multiple, cloaked ocs begin firing at the same time from different directions)
b) try another path (just pop a couple uncloaked on one side of a fork)
c) take the long path (see above)
d) go where i want them to go (block off all available paths, except the one you want)
e) walk into a trap (see b, then cloak a few ocs on the other path)
f) stall, don't work on laming up the halls to the hive, simply pop lone ocs around corners and behind ribs in the halls. sensories are good too. a single oc can stall a squad of la's for long enough to be flanked by skulks, and having them placed correctly can actually buy you several minutes, long enough to get an onos or to 'abandon' the hive
fine that was more like a dime or two, bot you may have learned something
remember: ocs are expendible, while the enemy is wasting time destroyng one you could be putting up another...
"Bundled" or "unbundled"?
<img src='http://glenn.studio-projekt.de/images/oc1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://glenn.studio-projekt.de/images/oc2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I guess, for the "budled" OC's you only need a gren launcher or a siege and everything is done.
<img src='http://glenn.studio-projekt.de/images/oco.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The "unbundled" version is harder to resist, isn't it?
And in addition, the strewn placement is easier to access for the onos.
Cheers, Glenn.
On a more OC related note, the strewn approach, or zone of lame, is very much the way to go as it encourages rines to try and run straight through, which means more dead rines.
Most rines aren't dumb/desperate enough to try to hop an OC wall, but they will try running through zol just to see if they can make it.
Second, as pointed out, its very onos friendly and bloody impossible to hit with one siege or one gl.
Also i like to have my oc's right out in the open, and my dc hidin nearby