Deus Ex 2 Invisible War

Snidely · December 2003

Yeah, I'd be happy to know just how different it was from the demo. For example, in the full game:

- does your character cast a shadow?
- is there a lean function?
- is it still bad, framerate-wise?
- are the textures better?
- did they fix the font size?
- is the hud still huge?
- is the hacking system better? In the demo, it was basically pressing a "hack" button on the ATM.
- does the riot prod still guzzle up tons of "ammo" to take out a single peep?

To be honest, after playing the demo, there's no way I'm buying the full game on release (next year, in the UK). I'll just buy Advance Wars 2 for the GBA instead. :/

NumbersNotFound · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Dec 11 2003, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, I'd be happy to know just how different it was from the demo. For example, in the full game:

- does your character cast a shadow?
- is there a lean function?
- is it still bad, framerate-wise?
- are the textures better?
- did they fix the font size?
- is the hud still huge?
- is the hacking system better? In the demo, it was basically pressing a "hack" button on the ATM.
- does the riot prod still guzzle up tons of "ammo" to take out a single peep?

To be honest, after playing the demo, there's no way I'm buying the full game on release (next year, in the UK). I'll just buy Advance Wars 2 for the GBA instead. :/ </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Does he cast a shadow? Don't know, never looked

No lean function

Framerates are fine on my Ti4400 BUT you won't be able to go above 800x600 AND some tweaking is required

Textures are the same size

Font size seemed a little smaller than in demo. I didn't notice it too muc hafter awhile

HUD can be moved to the outer side of the screen... also unintrusive (use the tweak tool.. it does graphics/HUD in one shot)

hacking system is the same... but you need biomods to get it to demo-level (neural interface lvl3) Dunno why people are complaning.. Do you really miss DX's numbers flying by?

Riot prod is actually hardly used.. I didn't use it once... But i'd assume it takes the same amount of ammo.

They ARE fixing some problems (like text size) on international release.. And making some graphical tweaks, getting rid of mouse lag, etc.

CplDavis · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Dec 11 2003, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Uh... the actual game seemed fine to me.. I still had fun, it was a great story....

Was the fun in DX really managing skills, ammo, and biomods? The story is the real reason to buy this game, and it's good. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
it sounds like you havnt played the first one before, ur really missing out lol.

Like i said in my first post, if you have never played DX1 this willbe an ok game, but if you have played DX1 you will see just how degraded this sequel is.

Now im not trying to say something like, OPfor and blushift were not as good as HL, Im saying imagine imagine the upcomming HL2 totaly removing or negating every good aspect that made the origional great.

And if HL2 does this im gonna have to kill myself. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Im terms of managing skills, ammo and biomods, in the first game, it was very much more indepth and impacting on the players style. As for ammo, oh boy where to begin. Ammo was hard to come by and you had to make your shots count. Sneak up on an enemy and drop him with a quick head shot. Now its like, walk up toa target, shoot him anywhere 3 times to make him come after you, then shoot him an INSANE amount of times ANYWHERE to drop him. I once shot a normal street punk NPC in the face 7 times and his buddy like 9 times in the chest to get him to die. They where wearing no armour or anything.

Now its like, hmm I have 4 magazines, and they are all magical so i can use them on any gun i want.i can even switch guns mid way through a clip too and pretend my 15 round 9mm clip instantly turns into a 30 round SMG clip. Come on Serious Sam doesnt even do this.

yes yes,the story in DX IW is pretty good, but it falls very short of the potential it already had and could have had.

btw

i have a GeForce3TI, 512Ram and 2.36gigherz PC, Not the best but i can play max payne2 C&C generals, call of duty,and Unreal2 just fine on 1024x768 resoultion just fine with details on high.

For what ever reason I can only play DX2 smoothly on 640x480 resolution. bleh, time for a new GFX card.

oh yea if you get a securitycode you jsut walk up to the key pad and press your use key instead of manualy typing in the code. This may not be a big deal but its just one more small detail that makes the game less immersive. same when u hack a PC, its way less detailed process, and less fun

Snidely · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Dec 11 2003, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Do you really miss DX's numbers flying by?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No, but I was hoping for something like a neat little puzzle to succeed, or a timer before detection.

Heh...looks like I'm lucky that it's coming out later. I hate delving through .ini files.

NumbersNotFound · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Dec 11 2003, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Dec 11 2003, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Uh... the actual game seemed fine to me.. I still had fun, it was a great story....

Was the fun in DX really managing skills, ammo, and biomods? The story is the real reason to buy this game, and it's good. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
it sounds like you havnt played the first one before, ur really missing out lol.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, I played the 1st DX...

And for all the performance issues people talk about.. On the DX1 I got similar performance to DX2 on my current computer... Both pretty similar timeframes apart. Only this time around, the visuals are nice.. And I don't have to turn all details down to super-low so that the faces are just a mush of colors.

Really all those security codes/logins were immersive, yes, but were really a pain after while...

Unified ammo worked pretty good.. I was still running short in places towards the end, though ammo is more abundant in the sequel.

Would I say DX2 is better than DX1? Nope... There are way too many bugs right now to say that, but did it entertain me? Yes, of course. After I finish KOTOR i'm playing it through again.

DiscoZombie · December 2003

Don't want to really drag this off topic, but I had a question about DX1 -- I still haven't beaten it, because I'm too much of a perfectionist... I want good responses from everyone, and I want to miss nothing, before I proceed with the game... so, after mission 2, I can't seem to kill enough people to satisfy Anna Navarre but few enough to satisfy the army guy who gives you ammo... I've played through the first 2 missions like 6 times =P do you get charged with killing people if you turn sentry guns on them? how about if your partner does em in? anyone have links to any really good in-depth FAQs on the subject? :>

Marik_Steele · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Dec 11 2003, 09:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Don't want to really drag this off topic, but I had a question about DX1 -- I still haven't beaten it, because I'm too much of a perfectionist... I want good responses from everyone, and I want to miss nothing, before I proceed with the game... so, after mission 2, I can't seem to kill enough people to satisfy Anna Navarre but few enough to satisfy the army guy who gives you ammo... I've played through the first 2 missions like 6 times =P do you get charged with killing people if you turn sentry guns on them? how about if your partner does em in? anyone have links to any really good in-depth FAQs on the subject? :> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
My suggestion is to go to <a href='http://www.planetdeusex.com/denton/dx1/skill.shtml' target='_blank'>Denton's Databank's "skill points" section</a> and <a href='http://www.planetdeusex.com/denton/dx1/equipment/augs.shtml' target='_blank'>Augmentations/Upgrades section.</a> These parts of the site don't give full walkthroughs and give fewer spoilers than the average guide because it only tells you what actions will get you skill points/augmentation canisters. It's perfect for people like you and me who don't want to miss out on a thing, but still want to be surprized.

[edit]The guy making the site is also putting up <a href='http://www.planetdeusex.com/denton/' target='_blank'>a walkthrough of DX2</a> as he's going along.
[edit2]By the way, remember that the equipment-giving soldier isn't the only one who'll be disappointed with you for killing stuff. Your brother is quite the pacifist compared to the other augmented agents in UNATCO. Remember that it's an RPG, you don't have to separate the game world from your own moral/ethical decision making of real life. Or you can purposefully separate the two to make your character nothing like your real-life self. Aren't open-ended games grand?

DragonMech · December 2003

I've read the entire thread here, and I have to say I'm stunned. The official XboX magazine gave Deus Ex IW a 9.1 - editor's choice award - and one of the editors (Ryan McCafferey) is as big of a DX1 freak as I am. If it is as bad as you say... ouch. No individual ammo? I can't use flare darts to light stuff on fire from a distance (great for distracting guards)? No HE 20mm grenades? No headshots? You mean I cannot snipe someone from halfway across the map? WHAT THE HELL DID THEY DO TO MY DX2 D***IT!?!?!?!?!?

Please tell me I misunderstood the entire thread...or it's all a bad joke...or something...(whimper)...

Bosnian_Cowboy · December 2003

I've seen quite a few people who played DX2 post after my original post and they still haven't addressed the horrible animations that I experienced in the demo. Are they in the full game or not?

Should I use caps to get people's attention?

Confuzor · December 2003

In spite of this, I hope Thief 3 goes well...

Ekaj · December 2003

I can’t stand Invisible War. The mouse lag is just pathetic on my machine, I’ve never played any game with mouse lag anywhere near this bad, it’s pretty much unplayable. My comp can play Star Wars: KotOR, Prince of Persia: SoT, Call of Duty and Max Payne 2 well and those games all have far better graphics than DX:IW. The voice acting is also pretty annoying in general and most of the character models so far are ugly, especially the male Alex, ugh. Ion Storm needs to learn that fancy effects and real time lighting don’t cover up bad artwork.

The intro movie is good but past that I can’t say I liked the atmosphere of the game, although I haven’t played much of it yet (and might not play anymore at all). Oh, and another thing that ticks me off is that the game minimizes back to windows and then maximizes again every time a map change happens. WTH? Way to completely break the immersion.

This is mostly IMHO of course, but jesus I can’t believe how bad this turned out to be, especially considering that the first Deus Ex is my favourite game ever. Sorry if I seem a little judgmental ATM, I’m just feeling a bit let down. I think Warren Spector should take the helm again for the next Deus Ex (although that probably isn’t going to happen).

D:

Fina · December 2003

Getting rid of Leaning and Locational Damage in a game that is considered stealthy is SMRAT.

No reloading? Unified ammo? <b>SMRAT</b>. Player expression my ****. If they wanted to keep a player's expression through weapon use, they would have kept unique ammo types and locational damage.

DX2 is a really sad affair. After playing the demo I wanted to pinch myself and wake up. What were they thinking? "They're DX1 fanboys! They'll buy anything with Deus Ex in the title!"

And what is with the performance of this piece of junk? [A DX9 Based FPS Game] runs twice as fast and looks four times as good.

Remember sneaking into a vent, leaning out, tagging some guards with Tranq darts, then running of to hide while they go nite-nite?

Remember running out of ammo for your primary weapon, so you had to fall back on your sidearm? It might not be powerful, but if you make each shot count...

Remember digging through files for computer account details? Or bypassing them and just hacking your way in? Waiting as your ICE-Pick slowly bypassed the system and allowing you in? Remember trying to race through the computer system to find what you're looking for while the counter slowly draws to an end. Trying to log out at the last second before you're detected in the system. Or trying to get in and out of a system before that guard comes around again...

Stuff like that made DX1 for me.

As awful as it sounds, I hope that the game's sells fail to meet expectations so that IS learns a lesson. I've never seen such an outcry over a game. The reaction I read from message boards look like 75% of the people who try it are disappointed.

I wanted this game so bad. They better be doing a lot of work on patching the game up if they want my sell, and the sell of many, many others.

Narfwak · December 2003

I think most people here are missing the point. One of the primary problems with the original game was that you could not feasibly play the game in a wide variety of ways; it could be done, but being stealthy was almost always more effective.

DX2 is not designed to be a stealth shooter. It just isn't. You can play it like a stealth shooter to a limited degree, but only if you want to. You could also go in guns blazing and do just as well. It's all just a matter of personal preference.

Which brings us to the real point - DX2 is <b>not</b> an FPS. It's an RPG in the truest sense - you are forced to actually <b>role-play</b>. This isn't some horrendously annoying, stat-obsessed MMORPG in which all you do is try to better yourself. This is a game were you get to choose how to play to fit your personality; additionally, the game provides numerous and exclusive goals to pursue to define your character even further.

I will admit that the game does have flaws. The engine is rather unoptimized, the mouse and keyboard lag is annoying - although, on of the tweaking tools I used removed mouse lag entirely, although keyboard lag remained - and some of the rag-dolls physics can be buggy at times. However, the design changes are really not a big deal. I'm guessing that most of the people whining about the game have not even played it, and do not really understand how the changes actually affect game play. The simplified inventory allows a player to choose what guns they like, and even use heavy weapons without having to drop every other essential item they own. In this sense, guns are not "better" or "worse" than each other; weapons are only different, and some weapons are more useful than other in certain situations.

Universal ammo is also not a big deal at all. You get plenty of it throughout the game, so it isn't as though all your guns using the same ammunition is going to cause you to run out. Each weapon uses different amounts of ammunition, so weapon variety is still retained. In fact, all universal ammunition does is to make armed combat are more discrete aspect of game play. By having all the guns use the same power source, your "combat resources" are simplified and unified, allowing you to think of the game as more than just an FPS.

The only thing I haven't liked about the design so far is that most of the missions are morally reprehensible. You really don't get the opportunity to do the "right thing" often. While this certainly provides more space for philosophical discussion (what is the right thing, etc.), it would be nice to be able to do something that didn't involve heartless political assassination or corporate espionage once in a while. I haven't played through the whole game yet, so I don't know if such opportunities will be more frequent down the road.

So stop whining about a game you haven’t even played yet. You’re just like the hordes of people complaining about NS:C – you haven’t played the game, so you really don’t know how much fun it is.

DiscoZombie · December 2003

Marik, thanks for the sites, I'll check them as soon as I get home :>

Docchimpy, I agree completely -- instead of dumbing down games like this, they should just have a 'basic' and 'advanced' control set or something... the dumb nubs can use WASD and the space bar and shoot everyone they see to win, if that's what they want, and the people interested in a deeper play experience can crouch and hide and plan and explore and generally role-play...

there really is no excuse for not having locational damage in this day and age. Like, I can't sneak up on someone and thwap him on the head with the club, knocking him out, anymore? and shooting someone 5 times in the foot will do the same damage as 5 times in the back of the head? what gives?

Quaunaut · December 2003

Davis, I fully agree with you, but there is one thing about the game that I just...I can't stand. They took the story of Deus Ex, made a great story for IW, BUT THEN they made the game short as damned hell and even after that anything that even was supposed to be remotely "Hard", turned out to be ridiculously easy. Your right- very dissapointing game.

And guys, if your gonna talk bout HL2, make your own thread. Which I'm gonna do now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

(and btw- Disco, the WASD control scheme pwns you. But sneaking kicks **** too. In IW, I was teh ninja wit teh 3n3|2gy |3l4d3!)

CplDavis · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Dec 12 2003, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> So stop whining about a game you haven’t even played yet. You’re just like the hordes of people complaining about NS:C – you haven’t played the game, so you really don’t know how much fun it is.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I dont know about the the others posting in this section, but I have played it lol b/c I own it and I may as well get what limited worth it has out of it,

And the whole purpose of this review like anyother is to tell people information on a product they dont have. So they can make more educated purchasing decisions when it comes down to spending their hard earned $50. <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Narfwak · December 2003

For those that say there is no locational damage, read the manual - there <b>is</b> locational damage.

CplDavis · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Dec 12 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> For those that say there is no locational damage, read the manual - there <b>is</b> locational damage.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
So far the only gun that seems to kill in one hit is the sniper rifle,

I have no idea what the manual says b/c i didnt bother to read it but after seeing the developers say that it was severely lowered/removed in the DX forums is enough for me, that plus the fact that unlike DX1, when I play the game I can shoot a bad guy 4 times in the face and rest assured that he will still live. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Narfwak · December 2003

Then it is obvious that you didn't actually try to shoot someone in the head with any other gun, or have **** poor aim. Granted, not all are instant kills, but all weapons do considerably more damage when you hit someone in the head.

GreyPaws · December 2003

LOL

"I'll admit not all the weapons are an instant kill with a headshot but..."

"Ouch.. I just got shot in the face, I'm angry! who did that? Ohh that guy over there... GET HIM!"

Even a beanbag round would kill you if you got hit in the face (unless you were 60m away or something, even then im sure you wouldnt be moving for wuite some time)

Anyway I'm going to go play it at a friends house, he has it for the X-box, I dont think I'm wasting my cash on an "average" game.

Pulse · December 2003

<a href='http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77044' target='_blank'>Ion Storm listens to fans, hundreds killed, many more injured, $12000 in damages.</a>

Ekaj · December 2003

Yay for the patch. The game is actually playable now and I can crank up some of the settings and still get playable FPS (being able to aim is fun). I like it a lot more now so I started the game over again and it's been pretty decent so far.

CplDavis · December 2003

lol I read that link, then I read the after effects of that patch,

<a href='http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?threadid=29894' target='_blank'>http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.ph...?threadid=29894</a>

I installed it too, and now my inventory system is all screwed, and the repair option doesnt work,

*sigh time to reinstall.

NumbersNotFound · December 2003

WTH is wrong with this picutre?

One guy says how easy the game is, and another wants one-shot-kills with any gun...

Conflict, maybe?

taboofires · December 2003

Here's the patch changelog, for those interested:

Defaulted Bloom to off when starting a new game.
Adjusted mouse movement to eliminate feeling of "lagginess".
Adjusted the HUD so that it is pushed toward the edges of the screen.
Added option for turning all shadows off. This can massively improve performance, especially at higher resolutions.
Shrunk all text sizes.
Reworked mouse-based UI control within the inventory and biomod screens; right-clicking will now swap items in the inventory and toolbelt screen.
Added buttons for installing weapon mods and biomods.
The biomod/inventory/datavault hotkeys are now toggles (the same buttons will now both open and close these subscreens).
Added quick save/quickload keys. (F10/F12)
Non-hostile AI's will now go hostile much sooner if shot.
Eliminated monitor resyncing during level transition and save game loads.
Increased the headshot damage multiplier for the pistol.
Increased the damage of the stun prod.

Deus Ex 2 Invisible War

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