Good Defense? Or Only Offense ...
Fat_Man_Little_Coat
Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
Now, I believe strongly that the best defense is a good offense, but to maintain chokepoints you need a solid point that can hold up against a fade or onslaught of skulks.
I've visited these forums in the past with 1.04 and such, and remember turret placements and such, but seeing how turret factories are so easy to take down now (electrified or not), I was wondering if I should really even bother that much to set it up in the first place. Seeing how most people use electrified res nodes as the defense, should I even bother with the turret factories?
I've visited these forums in the past with 1.04 and such, and remember turret placements and such, but seeing how turret factories are so easy to take down now (electrified or not), I was wondering if I should really even bother that much to set it up in the first place. Seeing how most people use electrified res nodes as the defense, should I even bother with the turret factories?
Comments
If I was commander, I would only defend the needed points, but will remain on the offensive too. I hate it to see the team build as much rt's as possible and not taking the ones of the others out.
I've visited these forums in the past with 1.04 and such, and remember turret placements and such, but seeing how turret factories are so easy to take down now (electrified or not), I was wondering if I should really even bother that much to set it up in the first place. Seeing how most people use electrified res nodes as the defense, should I even bother with the turret factories? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If its any consellation most competative clans I play are ushally VERY aggresive as marines and spend little time with tf's/turrets and put a higher priority on arms upgrades or proto/phase techs. The main objective being to cap as many nodes as possible while keeping sufficent pressure on their nodes/hives so they cannot leave their side of the map in an atempt to take your hold on the map out.
I play CS as well and learning what is the best D (defense) or O (offense) in the game.
The principles of "A" Game i should say would be that it doesnt matter what kind of O or D you have set up .. it is how u incorporate them into the strategy. I have been in many different cs clans. Some w/ really good strategy and some with really good skill. The teams we played had really strong strategies but weak players.
Thats the main thing, you can setup your men if they have good aim u can play defensivley and camp out the whole round or whatever.. or if you have some good aimers but also have good O strategy, you can have them play aggressively but SUCCESSFUL.
Mainly if your team has good aim play Defensively and let them come to you. While if your team has somewhat moderate aim. Try playing aggressively and test out all your strategy/tactics and see what the end result is.
You will find yourself very successful by "trying" different strategies.
Turrets are really only useful against skulks. At the 5 minute mark, when fades appear, the effectiveness of turrets falls quickly. Unfortunately, turrets are really too expensive to indulge in that 1st 5 minutes. If the alien team is good, you'll want to spend your res getting upgrades instead of wasting it on flimsy defence.
tip for aliens - if the marines have feedwater locked down, and a guy or two guarding tram tunnel, to take them out, get silence and swim up from refinery. then leap/blink ( <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> and <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> seem to be best for this) past the turrets (you shouldnt take that much damage). you'll be behind them and itll take a little while for them to realize their under attack. works wonders, until they start to catch on. or you can also hide in the vent in that thing at the bottom... but somehow they tend to guard that more.
Turrets are ok at getting lerks ... i mean dont' expect to kill any lerks with just turrets (unless you have like a 30 turret farm) ... but turrets are useful for scaring that annoying lerk away. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Once fades get going, forget about the turrets ... (unless again, you have a 30 turret farm ... which then I would proceed to laugh at you for wasting 300 res)
and NO amount of turrets can stop a hive 2 gorge (bile bomb) or even a hive 1 or 2 onos with redemption and adrenaline.
So my advice, your strat is good ... stick with 4-5 turrets to scare the skulks and the occasional lerk away and focus on res towers, upgrades, and supporting teams of aggressive marines. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
when ha is ready i give 4 or 5 out 2 or 3 hmg and 2 sg (dont forget the welders). i drop 7 turrets around the front and 2 in the back.
then its off to siege the first hive. tf pg 3 siege (wepons 3 and then the rest of the armor ups). HA defend the tf untill the hive is down. by the time the first hive is down you should have most if not all your team in HA. defend mini base with turrets move on to next hive build armory pg. walk in kill hive. gg.
small note. after your 4 to 5 ha move out youll want to have 1 guy stay at base. give him ha and hmg. this will make the onos think twice about ruining your base while your team is out killing.
big base = lots of time and rez wasted. as pubers we waste to much time as is.
edit..
youll want 3 rts for this to work and if you manage to get a hive on most maps you will end up with 4 rts. but by almeans cap as may rts as you can.
A sufficient base defense could be 4 turrets or some well-placed electricity and a few mines to fill in defensive holes in early game at most. Another option is to just have a good marine handle it. In mid-game, no turret farm will stop an onos, so you want your basic defense (maybe a little heavier, depending), but most importantly a phase gate in base! Your base is as good as dead if your marines can't get back in time.
I'd think you'd need at most two per game, and thats assuming you're locking down two chokepoints and turreting them. Really you should be relying on your marines to get the job done, since if you have incompetent marines, you *will* lose, no matter how many turrets you place.
This is true - You comms out there may want to work on new strats, and being aggressive certainly can't hurt.
I know people say two hive lockdowns are impossible in the days of 2.0, but I've seen them work, and only because there were 3+ marines at each hive with turrets assisting them at ALL times.
Also, a good defense can be merely marines with a good phasegate network. You keep phasegates at your main chokes, and keep marines moving between them at all times, and you've got yourself a damn good defense. The only problem with phasegates is, you can have TOO many. It does not take marines that long to move from point A to point B, so try to keep the amount of phasegates you have as low as possible. Try to keep them at points where marines can run from the phasegate to important areas, without actually have a phasegate at that important area. Having too many phasegates means if a crucial area is under attack, the marines have to phase through 4 extra areas before they get to the critically damaged outpost, which in turn could mean you lose that area purely because of too many phases.
Yay, hopefully that means I won't have to type /stuck every time I spawn in an IP, just because the stupid comm built it under the TF <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yay, hopefully that means I won't have to type /stuck every time I spawn in an IP, just because the stupid comm built it under the TF <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And it won't be a race to get away from the ip before the next person spawns so you don't get telefragged, due to the entire base being crowded together.
Why spend 45 res (40 in 3.0 I think?) to get another electrified TF when you can place 4 turrets? The only thing you really need to defend with electricity is the IPs.
Why spend 45 res (40 in 3.0 I think?) to get another electrified TF when you can place 4 turrets? The only thing you really need to defend with electricity is the IPs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, I honestly would not be surprised to see a commander do this... Armor 3 before any weapons upgrades anyone? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree it would be stupid, but probably something that wouldn't hurt that bad if you were already winning the res war. I seriously hope commanders don't start doing this.
the problem is that most people reckon that turrets alone will defend a medium alien assault
well, no
but if you have two defenders (out of team of 9, and 6 offenders)in base/expansions that patrol with PGs, a few turrets will certain suffice