Yet Another "how To Move" -guide
Skie
Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Mostly for the skulk</div> Well, long story short:
My connection was dead for 12 days, so I practiced on single player, and found out how to strafejump, or to bunnyhop, whatever you want to call it.
I was bored, so I wrote a small guide to it.
Yes, I know, I know. There are other guides, but I didn't know it at the moment when my connection was dead.
Here's the 'original' bunnyhopping thread:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=49739' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=49739</a>
Here's what I wrote:
<a href='http://koti.mbnet.fi/~gale/nsmm/nsmm.txt' target='_blank'>http://koti.mbnet.fi/~gale/nsmm/nsmm.txt</a>
Yeah. A text file. I was too lazy to make it a .html.
I hope that and the demos help someone though.
And the techniques, well, they aren't new actually. Seems that others have invented them already.
The whole manual thingy quite much lost its meaning because of the other so many threads and guides, but bleh.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
My connection was dead for 12 days, so I practiced on single player, and found out how to strafejump, or to bunnyhop, whatever you want to call it.
I was bored, so I wrote a small guide to it.
Yes, I know, I know. There are other guides, but I didn't know it at the moment when my connection was dead.
Here's the 'original' bunnyhopping thread:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=49739' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=49739</a>
Here's what I wrote:
<a href='http://koti.mbnet.fi/~gale/nsmm/nsmm.txt' target='_blank'>http://koti.mbnet.fi/~gale/nsmm/nsmm.txt</a>
Yeah. A text file. I was too lazy to make it a .html.
I hope that and the demos help someone though.
And the techniques, well, they aren't new actually. Seems that others have invented them already.
The whole manual thingy quite much lost its meaning because of the other so many threads and guides, but bleh.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
EDIT: I read your guide(skimmed through). Great to know people are willing to do that work just to help others. Even though I did not get much help from it myself, I am sure someone not already bhoping did. And they can thank you for it. Keep up the good work.
<a href='http://www10.brinkster.com/pourout/bhop2.zip' target='_blank'>http://www10.brinkster.com/pourout/bhop2.zip</a>
<b>note, you must COPY and paste the above address</b>
Note that he doesn't use any upgrades.
Nonetheless, I read the guide and it strikes me as one of the few things I've read on these forums that show sign of knowledge, experience, and general willingness to teach others ^_^.
<a href='http://www10.brinkster.com/pourout/bhop2.zip' target='_blank'>http://www10.brinkster.com/pourout/bhop2.zip</a>
<b>note, you must COPY and paste the above address</b>
Note that he doesn't use any upgrades.
Nonetheless, I read the guide and it strikes me as one of the few things I've read on these forums that show sign of knowledge, experience, and general willingness to teach others ^_^. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's an average bhop
download my bhopping here
<a href='http://www.intrik.net/bhop.zip' target='_blank'>http://www.intrik.net/bhop.zip</a>
the demos were originally made for kal to help him pick up speed on the first jump, that's why they are named "kal1" etc. If your lazy, or whatever, just watch number 6. all the others are short ones.
Note, I used celerity in most of these, and I cannot bunnyhop like this in the heat of battle or very consistently, most of these took several tries to get descent.
I may as well contribute some empirical knowledge on bhoping as well.(Last is correct by the way, all he is doing in the demo is being evasive and going minutely faster than normal. The numbers I give below are from a speedometer(client side hook called sparky utils v1, it's for TFC and contains nothing malicious), I did not just pull them out of my **** <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->).
A good straferun can get you up to 1.5 times you normal running speed even before you bhop with any of the species. Holding forwards does not destroy your bunnyhopping, it only does that if strafing forwards is the wrong direction(it is not if you bhop sideways or want to do a strafe jump around a marine facing inwards or if you want to dodge a skulk).
Maximum airspeed(reached while blinking, flying and leaping) is 3x normal running speed. Bhoping is limited to ~1.7 the normal running speed since you are slowed to 1.7 times the normal running speed each time you land.
Practice bunnyhopping with the gorge, it is easiest. They have very high aircontrol(you need to turn very fast to be slowed down). The faster you go the slower you seem to have to turn(turning to fast slows you down), possibly the maximum angular velecity you can turn without slowing down is the same but the radius of your strafe turns must then be larger.
Allways hold duck while bhoping as a skulk, while fade and onos it is best to stand when there is room as your aircontroll is deminished will crouched. It does not matter for gorges, they have good aircontroll either way.
Staircases are evil, if you are gorge you can get up even quite tall ones if you turn so you are facing perpedicular to the stairs when you first land on the stairs and then strafe jump in half a circle so you are facing perpendicular to the stairs going in the opposite direction. If the stairs are large this is easy, if the are narrow you are unlikely to get a way with it, but you may get out of the stairs going faster than running if you are lucky.
Some slopes tend to slow you down at the bend on the top, they are also evil, but not as much as staircases.
Most people who bunnyhop use some simple script that spams jump 3 times in quick succession(3 times or less seems to be legal in most leagues) or bind +jump to the mousewheel(also perfectly legal).
Here is what I use:
alias +triplejump "+jump;wait;-jump;wait;+jump;wait;-jump;wait;+jump"
alias -triplejump "wait;-jump"
bind space triplejump
There is a scripting exploit that allows you to spam jump continously automatically jumping exactly when you land as long as you hold the button down, this will be fixed in NS 3.0. Don't use this, you can jump almost as well without it and you will have to re-learn proper timing in 3.0 and it is unfair to use as well.
btw, i'm using the same script as you are.
You're right, it's off to the original Halflife multiplayer. Anyone want to start a clan?
I still play HL multiplayer(...and AGHL with teh unlimited bhoping <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I mean... It just jumps once! And so DOES NORMAL JUMP!!!!
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I find speed bhop actually isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, it can be lethal sometimes. We had a guy on NTFM #2 last night, and admitedly he was VERY fast, but the problem is, once you make the range, you can't utilize it very well. You simply lose the ability to change direction quick enough.
TeoH is excellent at it, despite any other complaints he might receive, and I'd suggest playing him a bit. As for myself, I can't bhop consistently, but I feel I'm much better at evading fire than a lot of people I play, so I make up for it by getting close in other ways.
EDIT : However, this does appear to be a well written, easy to follow guide, and kudos to Skie for that. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I mean... It just jumps once! And so DOES NORMAL JUMP!!!!
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It helps you get the timing right so you don't stick to the floor like is possible when using normal jump.
bind mouse2 "+3jumps"
alias +3jumps "+jump; wait; -jump; wait; +jump; wait; -jump; wait; +jump"
alias -3jumps "-jump"
alias jumptoggle "bind mouse2 +jump;bind t jumptoggle1"
alias jumptoggle1 "bind mouse2 +3jumps;bind t jumptoggle"
bind t "jumptoggle"
I mean... It just jumps once! And so DOES NORMAL JUMP!!!!
??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I initially took that as sarcasm, then realised which forum i was reading :)
The point of using a 3 jump script, or a mousewheel is only to make the timing of the next jump easier. The jump command is spammed a few times in a very short period - because it is spammed rapidly, there is more chance of the jump connecting cleanly when you land.
Example, if you press a 3 jump script a millisecond before you land, while the first jump of the script will miss and not occur, the next jump will be peformed almost immediately upon landing, and you'll still hop. Without the script, the jump would not have come out, and you'd be sitting on the floor.
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I really don't understand, tbh.
I find speed bhop actually isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, it can be lethal sometimes. We had a guy on NTFM #2 last night, and admitedly he was VERY fast, but the problem is, once you make the range, you can't utilize it very well.
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There are a few things to remember about hopping. Although the speed advantage is definately handy, a straight hopper who holds crouch permanently as skulk is actually easier to land shots against than someone who spazzes about on the floor. The reason being when you hold crouch down in the air, your model locks perfectly to the direction you're moving in - you get a skulk model facing straight forwards. This is far easier to predict and hit than the skulk spazzing about on the floor, whose model warps all over the shop and does cartwheels randomly. So when you hop directly at someone, although you are moving very quickly, you're also making yourself an easier target. Mixing it up here and there is a good idea. Once you're actually in range, you can use air turning and hopping techniques in a fight, but that requires more control. Most likely you would use singular circle strafe jumping techniques to land bites when you are on the floor at close range. But staying grounded and trying to get under a marine's feet has its merits.
The halfway measure is to bunnyhop but release crouch while in the air. If you do this, the moment you release crouch your model will no longer follow your direction of motion, it will continue to face the direction it was in when you released the crouch key. That means if you hop, release crouch, and then make a sharp turn in the air, you will be flying forwards while your skulk model faces sideways on. This is alot harder for a marine to deal with than straight hopping, the side on skulk model is harder to predict and is a less accurate representation of the hittable area (This may all change in 2.1). However this will only last untill you land, in order to get a clean hop upon landing you must be holding crouch as you hit the floor, and as you press crouch before the landing, your model will snap back to your direction of motion. Not using crouch at all and jumping around will make your model hard to hit, but as you know, it is imposible to get a clean hop if you are not holding crouch at the moment you touch the floor.
Inexperienced skulks can often be a pain to hit as they attempt to hop without holding crouch, causing their model to spin wildly. However since they do not hop cleanly, their speed is miserable. The most effective compromise is to hold crouch only as you land, releasing it in the air to allow your model to unlock. You can then make wild turns and hop close to walls causing your model to spin all over. Just hope you have well co-ordinated fingers as its a little harder than simply holding crouch :)
Now to clear out things.
One thing in common in all my techiniques is that for the short while I touch the ground with my skulk, just for a teeny weeny bit of time, I press +forward, so I don't need triplejump or such scripts.
The speed stays really fast all the time.
This needs a bit more "fingerwork" though, I guess. But I like that style.
And another thing, I don't hold crouch in air because I can already control my skulk enough well, meaning that I never touch the walls and get stuck to them when jumping. I practiced this in the corridor that's in ns_eclipse and there's the... sub something resource place attached to the corridor. You know, quite in middle of the map.
Comments on those two things?
PS.
I just took a look at Soylet Green's hopping demos and noticed that the style I use differs from it greatly, and is even a bit clumsier perhaps.
When I was jumping, or practicing to bunnyhop, I did it all by myself. I used the knowledge that I had got after strafejumping for over 4 years in Quake2, and accidentally found the style I use now.
I think I'll go practice some more. I want to learn all the styles. ;)
The point of the bunnyhop is to jump immediately upon landing to avoid all the slowing effects of making contact with the floor. Jumping instantly, you lose no speed, and can continue to accelerate in the next jump. Without crouching at the moment you make contact with the floor, the wallrunning effect will cause the skulk to stick itself to the floor, making it impossible to get a clean jump that avoids all friction. The fact that you require the use of +forwards upon landing tells me, without having watched your demos, that you are spending a considerable amount of time on the floor, meaning you cannot be maintaining much speed. You also miss the mark on some of your explanations, for example - while pitching the mouse relative to the floor when running along the floor can adjust your speed, this is an entirely different technique to the way acceleration is generated in the air. You give an indepth explanation of 'circling' the mouse, while seemingly missing the point that the only mouse motion which is relevant in that scenario is the left/right motion. Circling the mouse may be a perfectly good way of generating the correct left/right motion, but remember that your pitch in that situation is completely meaningless. You appear to be using the pitch while on the floor to accelerate your initial jump along with a circle strafe jump technique, thats all good, but once you're in the air your explanations of pitch changes aren't needed.
I got the hang of it pretty well already, but I'm not sure which technique I'm going to keep using.
The actual bunnyhopping needs the triplejump or such scripts/mwheel, when the one that I found out first doesn't need anything.
And I find my style easier to control. Easier to turn and start doing it to other direction. Doesn't really need that much space like the actual bunnyhopping style does.
Well, let's not start arguing which one of the techniques is better.
I noticed that the speed bunnyhopping one is quite a bit faster, but well, whatever floats one's boat.
Thanks for clearing out things.
Time to chomp some marines.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
as for bhop scripts, feel free to use mine. i made a switch to turn it on / off for when you want to lerk/jp
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias bhop "+jump;wait;-jump;wait;+jump;wait;-jump"
alias intrikbhop "bhop;bhop;bhop;wait;-jump"
unbind [
unbind ]
bind "[" "developer 1; echo [bhop on]; bind space intrikbhop; developer 0"
bind "]" "developer 1; echo [bhop off]; bind space +jump; developer 0"
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Yeh yeh. I noticed now as I toyed around with the style I saw from the demos, which is the actual bunnyhopping style.
I got the hang of it pretty well already, but I'm not sure which technique I'm going to keep using.
The actual bunnyhopping needs the triplejump or such scripts/mwheel, when the one that I found out first doesn't need anything.
And I find my style easier to control. Easier to turn and start doing it to other direction. Doesn't really need that much space like the actual bunnyhopping style does.
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I don't know what you mean by 'actual bunnyhopping style' since i tend to define bunnyhopping as simply the act of jumping immediately upon landing to negate friction.
I've just had chance to watch the demos, i don't understand why you've labelled them as different techniques as they're actually all the same thing, and the same technique as everyone else is using - you turn in the air to generate acceleration. Now you've given them fancy names and tried to elaborate on it, but really its all the same thing as everyone else uses. What you've called "ringu" and defined as a circluar motion with the mouse is actually the same technique that is usually taught to people who start hopping, the only difference is you've added in some vertical motion to turn it into a circle, and you're turning left and right in a single jump instead of in alternating jumps :)
What you're actually doing, is just a left and right turn, in the same way as hopping is usually taught, which generates air acceleration. The circlular motion is infact similar to the way i do it, but the fact that its a circle isnt important, its just a convinent way to move the mouse, you could lock your mouse vertically and just turn left/right and get the exact same effect. I'm going to assume that when you say actual bunnyhopping style you mean the way hopping is usually illustrated. With a skulk turning left for a whole jump, then turning right again on the next jump. For all intents and purposes, what you are doing in those demos is the exact same thing, you're just turning twice in 1 jump instead of alternating. The effect is the same. The other thing to pick up on is the demo you've called 'weirdo'. What you've actually got there is a circle strafe jump start, its a useful and well known technique, but it isnt used the way you're trying to use it :)
The circle strafe jump is the best way of generating acceleration in the initial jump off the floor, because of that its used to start off a hopping series. You make the sharp turn along the floor that you're doing in your demo, however instead of stopping afterwards and trying to do it again, you continue hopping off it, and use the standard air control you've been using in the previous demos. To do that properly you'll probably have to drop the +forwards thing and start hopping correctly upon landing. If that's something you're working on, expect to see better results once you've got it sussed. At the moment, although you're accelerating in the air fine, you're losing any speed you generate upon landing. Good luck with it anyway.
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I noticed that the speed bunnyhopping one is quite a bit faster, but well, whatever floats one's boat.
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Thats because your demos are the only ones here recorded with celerity3 ;)
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The actual bunnyhopping needs the triplejump or such scripts/mwheel
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Timing the jump correctly doesn't actually require any additional aid, with a bit of practice you can keep it up for a while using just a regular jump, the problem is being <b>consistant</b> without a script is pretty much impossible, so you will almost certainly miss jumps here and there.
<a href='http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/34764.html' target='_blank'>http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/ga...game/34764.html</a>
here is the natural selection gamefaqs page
put it under in-Depth FAQs and call it A Guide to Bunnyhopping
<span style='color:white'>***Moved.***</span>
aren't these scripts a _bit_ like cheating? bhopping is supposed to be a skill, you have no idea how hard it is to kill a high-velocity skulk when your ping is high (or the skulk's is) and the damn thing just WARPS across your screen to various locations. try shooting at something that isn't really there... <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The usual way people tend to justify the use of scripts when bunnyhopping(at least scripts that are simple, not like intriks which jumps a whole of 6 times) is these 4:
1) Quake 1(which HL physics is based on) did not have any stickyness to the floor like in HL, bunnyhopping without any script was as easy as it is in HL with a script that jumps a few times in quick succesion, and most probably VALVe introduced a bug(but for all I know they could have done it to prevent you from bunnyhopping).
2) A script that jumps 3 times or less in quick succesion is about as usefull as bind jump to the mousewheel, but it's awkward jumping with a mousewheel if your not used to it/my mousewheel is allready bound to something else like switch weapons. If I don't wan't to use my mousewheel for jumping should I really be punished?
3) Everyone else does(this one's popular <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) or everyone can write such a script if they don't allready have one. These people are usually from a quake/TFC background where scripting, even movement scripting, is very common and no one gives it much thought.
4) Leagues that allow bunnyhopping, tend to allow binding jump to the mousewheel as well as simple jump scripts that spam jump 1-3 times in quick succesion, why shouldn't public servers allow the same things as leagues?
The reason one uses scripts is not because it is hard to bunnyhop without them, it is because with a simple script you can jump hundreds of times without missing(still not perfectly, you do loose a little speed here and there, and this still does not make you a good bunnyhopper, you still need to learn how to strafe jump properly and how to not get stuck on things) and comming to a standstill in a vital situation is very annoying.
<a href='http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/34764.html' target='_blank'>http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/ga...game/34764.html</a>
here is the natural selection gamefaqs page
put it under in-Depth FAQs and call it A Guide to Bunnyhopping <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, maybe not.
As TeoH pointed out, some things should be re-written from the "Manual", BUT, now that I got my connection back I'm not that intrested in fixing the manual anymore. :)
I'm a perfectionist, and I'm not going to post an unfinished or a misleading manual again.
It took me some time to find this thread again because it was moved. Now I said that it's mostly for the skulk. There are some small tricks that can be done with the marines, too. But I'm being too picky again.
The Weirdo _is_ a useless technique, just wanted to point that out, as the others said, too.
I did some NS playing yesterday and I tried both of the styles in the maps I played. I still haven't adapted myself to the one I call "the actual bunnyhopping style", which is the one where you keep up the speed after you have gotten it. I still like mine more. <.<
And I really should start choosing words better when I write this stuff.
In the end, I hope the manual and this thread helped at least someone.