Shim
Infinitum
Anime Encyclopedia Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1111Members, Constellation
Anime Encyclopedia Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1111Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Good Evening, Shir.</div> Well apparently Off-topic doesn't have enough maturity to host such a topic. So here it is in discussion.
Oh ye of little faith Batbat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So I was on the front door tonight getting some more training at being a doorman.
At around 6:30 all hell breaks loose because this dance rehersal turns up and on the sheet and on the board we have in the front foyer, it isn't there. So me and my trainer are there holding back about 10 people just until we can get some info (What book the need to sign into. Special groups have their own book, otherwise people who are coming for the special event would need to join the club as a member just to drop their kids off to this thing. Long story. Think public laiability insurance...)
ANYWAYS. My trainer is getting ahold of the Events Manager and I'm checking member cards, signing in out of area guests and holding back more and more people. Along comes this... thing... it barges through the foyer and starts walking up the stairs. "Excuse me Ma'am, are you right there?"
It turns around and says to me: "I'm going up to the Diamond Audotorium for the dance rehersal for the props."
It was a man, or women undergoing a sex change....
It had breasts and a deep voice...
*compuses self instantly*
"Ok, I just need you to come back down to the foyer while we sort this out, we were just told about this and we need you to sign the guest book please Ma'am"
In the most condesending voice "Oh don't worry. I'll just get your duty manager."
Fine then... be a complete arsehole.
That wasn't the end of it. Apparently it (I use this in a polite term, as it is neither male nor female) was upset by me not being able to pick it's gender...
...
...
...
How. Petty. Can. You. Get.
Seriously. For one you're undergoing a sex change, so for one you're obviously questioning your sexuality. Secondly, you have short hair, a deep mans voice and breasts and you get **** off because I can't tell whether you're male or female... cop it on the chin and shrug it off jesus.
Later my shift manager comes along and says, don't worry about that person because he had gone through the club and several other staff members also got it's gender wrong.
Sigh.
Yet another daily reminder of why I hate people.
Remind me next time I see someone undergoing a sex change to refer to them as shim, and more politely as shir.... I still think they'll take offense to that.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There.
Now that is all in a polite manner. I meant no offense to that person, as I have been trained to be polite to the umptenth degree... it was just being an idiot.
Oh ye of little faith Batbat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So I was on the front door tonight getting some more training at being a doorman.
At around 6:30 all hell breaks loose because this dance rehersal turns up and on the sheet and on the board we have in the front foyer, it isn't there. So me and my trainer are there holding back about 10 people just until we can get some info (What book the need to sign into. Special groups have their own book, otherwise people who are coming for the special event would need to join the club as a member just to drop their kids off to this thing. Long story. Think public laiability insurance...)
ANYWAYS. My trainer is getting ahold of the Events Manager and I'm checking member cards, signing in out of area guests and holding back more and more people. Along comes this... thing... it barges through the foyer and starts walking up the stairs. "Excuse me Ma'am, are you right there?"
It turns around and says to me: "I'm going up to the Diamond Audotorium for the dance rehersal for the props."
It was a man, or women undergoing a sex change....
It had breasts and a deep voice...
*compuses self instantly*
"Ok, I just need you to come back down to the foyer while we sort this out, we were just told about this and we need you to sign the guest book please Ma'am"
In the most condesending voice "Oh don't worry. I'll just get your duty manager."
Fine then... be a complete arsehole.
That wasn't the end of it. Apparently it (I use this in a polite term, as it is neither male nor female) was upset by me not being able to pick it's gender...
...
...
...
How. Petty. Can. You. Get.
Seriously. For one you're undergoing a sex change, so for one you're obviously questioning your sexuality. Secondly, you have short hair, a deep mans voice and breasts and you get **** off because I can't tell whether you're male or female... cop it on the chin and shrug it off jesus.
Later my shift manager comes along and says, don't worry about that person because he had gone through the club and several other staff members also got it's gender wrong.
Sigh.
Yet another daily reminder of why I hate people.
Remind me next time I see someone undergoing a sex change to refer to them as shim, and more politely as shir.... I still think they'll take offense to that.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There.
Now that is all in a polite manner. I meant no offense to that person, as I have been trained to be polite to the umptenth degree... it was just being an idiot.
Comments
Or they could just stick with the way they were born, and live with it, like the rest of us. (you dont know how many times I've wanted... but that's enough of that.)
You, Infinitum, are treading on very, very thin ice.</span>
I disagree, from my own experiences there I'd say that for the most part it would most likely be nothing more than a few harmless jokes (many made by yours truly). With maybe some rather anecdotal accounts of previous experiences, or a few oddly innapropriate comments thrown in here and there, but that's how OT is all the time anyway.
And I say this entire thing is becoming thin! Very very thin! Thin in girth that is! Someone's been hitting the diet pills!
Inf:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Seriously. For one you're undergoing a sex change, so for one you're obviously questioning your sexuality. Secondly, you have short hair, a deep mans voice and breasts and you get **** off because I can't tell whether you're male or female... cop it on the chin and shrug it off jesus. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was he/she (undergoing a sex change)? Did you actually find out? Also, it's gender, not sexuality. ^^
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Remind me next time I see someone undergoing a sex change to refer to them as shim, and more politely as shir.... I still think they'll take offense to that.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some do. :/ They're really cranky about terms... especially the ones that don't like either he OR her, because they consider themselves nongendered/both gendered / insert other alternative description here. It's kind of the same problem we have in the ****/lesbian/bi community for people who just don't "like" certain terms or don't "consider" themselves under those labels... you NEED umbrella terms, or we wind up with a ridiculously long string of acronyms that no one understands or really even cares about. And then they get mad if you use the "wrong" term...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... it was just being an idiot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know about an idiot, but it certainly was cranky, and had no reason for that behavior. I remember I was at a hotel once and a friend of mine (politely) asked someone in the hall if she was a man or a woman (mind you, she was INCREDIBLY butch, enough that someone like me (I work with the lgbt community) was almost positive she was a man). She was ridiculously offended and ranted at him for a really long time about misconceptions and stereotyping, despite the fact that she was very obviously trying for a masculine image...
Z.X. B: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or they could just stick with the way they were born, and live with it, like the rest of us. (you dont know how many times I've wanted... but that's enough of that.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For transgendered people, it's not that simple. It's an extremely important issue that influences every aspect of their lives (unfortunately often in a negative way), but for them it's something they HAVE to do. It's not something I can explain too well, but in many cases (the last statistic I read claimed something like 50%, and I wouldn't doubt it), failure to transition properly results in death by suicide or hate murder. Meanwhile, during the several years-long transition, they have to deal with ambiguous legal situations, the general response from a VERY unwelcoming society (by the way Inf, I think you handled it quite well), and often violent responses.
Put them down in the same category as menopausal/ovulating women, and dont take it personally.
in other words, don't get on thier bad side if you like your face the way it is.
Athena:
I understand that there are some people who are born as both genders. I appreciate that these people should be allowed to choose thier gender and stick with it. I also appreciate that there are some people who really cannot live with thier gender, or it threatens thier quality of life, or thier life itself. Those people, I can understand wanting to change, but people who change for purely cosmetic reasons I don't agree with. Scociety get's even more divided into the have and have not's - why should I not be allowed to choose m gender simply because I cannot pay for it? I am sure there are hunders of poor people out there who are not happy with their gender, but because they cannot afford it, they have to stick with it. What makes the people who can so different? the fact that they have a couple of extra zeros on thier pay check? Seems a bit unfair to me.
Losing your temper, even just enough to make a retaliatory strike (in this case, bothering the manager), doesn't help anyone or make any situation better. It's awfully petty.
There ARE hundreds of transgendered people out there that can't afford it. I know several; in fact, a large proportion of ts cannot afford transition, because they can't even get decent jobs due to their status as ts, which is why a lot of them go into porn and prostitution. It just means they have to do their best with what they can get, and if it's not enough, they either have to live their lives the way they are, or they die. It IS unfair.
I'm not sure how to explain it... like I said, it's not just a "oh, it makes me unhappy" sort of thing like a "I hate being Japanese" or "I hate being fat" sort of thing, it's a "everything in my life, from the way I look to the way people treat me, feels completely WRONG, and it is so horrible that my soul is dying and I will die as well if this is not corrected" thing.
Gender is not a choice (for the most part, I wouldn't be surprised to hear of people who *decided* to switch). If it WERE a choice, transgendered folk wouldn't have the issues they do.
Nems note:
As a curious observation, not only of this, but of many topics, I'm noting how many people of all sides of the political barriers tend to base their whole assumptions about a topic on the possible existence of an abuseable element somewhere in it. There's usually the mentioning of a number of 'legit' causes for taking such an action which one 'doesn't want to have said anything against', but there's always the possibility that someone might take the controversial action for purely selfish reasons - women aborting simply because they don't want the child, people undergoing a gender change for cosmetical reasons, people tending to a certain subculture because they like to shock, pedophioles using the anonymity of the web to pursue their perversion, take your pick - and then forget the huge majority of legit reasons for the rest of the debate, daring the other side to prove that the abuse is impossible (which everyone knows is a losing battle because there might always be <i>some</i> oddjob).
The strange thing about this argumentation is that the rule is suddenly fashioned after the exception, often leading to a large number of people in dire need for the discussed opportunity left cold in the rain.
<span style='color:purple'>Add Ninja Monkeys, swinging logs and fire, and you just might.</span>
I'd look in the mirror, but I hate people staring at me.
<span style='color:white'>I don't want to add another useless banter post, but I'd just like to remark that, should I ever rework my sig, this last phrase will be in it.</span>
inf, man... i sympathize completely. i've understood for the longest time the situation w/ both-sex births, the parents choosing, transsexuals, etc...
but only now did i figure it out.
if, while reffering to the person in question to someone else, you use harmless terms like "<b>you, they, and their</b>"
even though "<b>you</b>" can be a little abrupt in certain situations "hey, you", and "<b>they/their</b>" is improper grammar (as opposed to his and hers).. it's not she, and it's not he. it's not her, and it's not him. it's they, theirs.
so if "they" get pyst, it's "their" f***in fault for taking offense in the first place.
it doesn't matter who or what you are. if you're being an <span style='color:white'>jerk</span> to other people, then you're just that: not a he, not a her, not a shim, not a shir. a <span style='color:white'>jerk</span>.
edit: sometimes that word is necessary =\
it is entirely reasonable to say that, in any and every issue, there's always going to be some oddball out that is going to abuse the ruling. i don't think that that really is a relevant argument for anything, not because they should be ignored, but, because they exist in every issue, and are, quite frankly, an uncontrollable issue. i don't think that, just because it is possible for someone to take advantage of a decision purely for selfish reasons, the rest of the right thinking law abiding citizens of the world should be punished. the internet is a prime example. you mentions pedofiles and their use of the anonymity of the internet to show off and augment their perverse actions. and yet the internet still exists, and i'm willing to bet you that it's going to remain in existence for quite a long time yet. i don't hear anyone complaining about the internet here, just because a tiny fraction of people are abusing it.