Are Ns Games Too Short?
Fire_Eel
Join Date: 2003-08-19 Member: 19950Members
Join Date: 2003-08-19 Member: 19950Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Do NS lacks Versatility?</div> In my opinion, NS is indeed a great game but I feel the games are way too short and lack versatility.
Firstly, theres only 3 hives in a map, heck, why not make it 5 hives? Secondly, marines only have 11 structures ( excluding adv.TF and adv.Armory ) , why not make it 15 or more structures? Thirdly, the maps are usually big, but why not increase the map size by 50% or more? Er......yah, I know that everyones gonna give me 1 answer , HL ENGINE CONSTRAINT.
When you become an alien and have 100 resource, you may choose to gorge or become Onos. But you soon realise that as a Gorge, you may not be able to help out a lot, as an Onos, you may die much faster than you realise. Perheps they should add new aliens bigger than Onos maybe?
When a Commander has got 1000+ resource, HA Trains and Jet Pack Squads with full upgrades at his disposal, he comes to a awkward situation. Its too short, he can easily send his squad into battle and wipe out the alien. Also, I think the marine arsenal is kinda limited. Why stop at Heavy Armor? Why not new equipment like Nano Armors or Proto Armors or new toys which are extremely expensive but far more powerful than a Heavy Armor.
Why does the marines top weapons stop at Grenade Launchers or Heavy Machine Gun? Why not a Rocket Launcher or a Triple Machine Gun? Why do aliens only get 4 abilites? Why not go all the way up to 5 abilites?
Then again, all these are just dreams, illusions. All these may or may not come true when Natural Selection 2 comes? But then, with the exception of turtling marines, 95% of NS games stop at >45 minutes. Why is this so? I have had magnificant games lasting up to 2+ Hours where aliens had 3 hives, 6 RTs while marines had HA Trains, full upgrades and 3-4 RTs. However, all these soon comes to an end because sooner or later, aliens and marines come to the end of their tech tree. Theres no more upgrades, no more hives, no more aliens, no more new equipment.
Dun many of you feel that NS games last too short? That NS lacks versatility? What may happen when NS 2 comes? Flayra doesn't want to talk about NS 2 and I dun blame him, its a damn lot of work, programming, testing, balancing, drawing, creating, thinking, designing.................................
Firstly, theres only 3 hives in a map, heck, why not make it 5 hives? Secondly, marines only have 11 structures ( excluding adv.TF and adv.Armory ) , why not make it 15 or more structures? Thirdly, the maps are usually big, but why not increase the map size by 50% or more? Er......yah, I know that everyones gonna give me 1 answer , HL ENGINE CONSTRAINT.
When you become an alien and have 100 resource, you may choose to gorge or become Onos. But you soon realise that as a Gorge, you may not be able to help out a lot, as an Onos, you may die much faster than you realise. Perheps they should add new aliens bigger than Onos maybe?
When a Commander has got 1000+ resource, HA Trains and Jet Pack Squads with full upgrades at his disposal, he comes to a awkward situation. Its too short, he can easily send his squad into battle and wipe out the alien. Also, I think the marine arsenal is kinda limited. Why stop at Heavy Armor? Why not new equipment like Nano Armors or Proto Armors or new toys which are extremely expensive but far more powerful than a Heavy Armor.
Why does the marines top weapons stop at Grenade Launchers or Heavy Machine Gun? Why not a Rocket Launcher or a Triple Machine Gun? Why do aliens only get 4 abilites? Why not go all the way up to 5 abilites?
Then again, all these are just dreams, illusions. All these may or may not come true when Natural Selection 2 comes? But then, with the exception of turtling marines, 95% of NS games stop at >45 minutes. Why is this so? I have had magnificant games lasting up to 2+ Hours where aliens had 3 hives, 6 RTs while marines had HA Trains, full upgrades and 3-4 RTs. However, all these soon comes to an end because sooner or later, aliens and marines come to the end of their tech tree. Theres no more upgrades, no more hives, no more aliens, no more new equipment.
Dun many of you feel that NS games last too short? That NS lacks versatility? What may happen when NS 2 comes? Flayra doesn't want to talk about NS 2 and I dun blame him, its a damn lot of work, programming, testing, balancing, drawing, creating, thinking, designing.................................
Comments
I guess it's HL and not NS
we can't increase them... half life won't work if we do... and if half life doesn't work... well, you know where that ones leads to...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you become an alien and have 100 resource, you may choose to gorge or become Onos. But you soon realise that as a Gorge, you may not be able to help out a lot, as an Onos, you may die much faster than you realise. Perheps they should add new aliens bigger than Onos maybe?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because we don't care for things larger than an elephant? or maybe it might be that an onos hitboxes are as large as the half life engine can support?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When a Commander has got 1000+ resource, HA Trains and Jet Pack Squads with full upgrades at his disposal, he comes to a awkward situation. Its too short, he can easily send his squad into battle and wipe out the alien. Also, I think the marine arsenal is kinda limited. Why stop at Heavy Armor? Why not new equipment like Nano Armors or Proto Armors or new toys which are extremely expensive but far more powerful than a Heavy Armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you can't do it with a heavy train... it shouldn't be possible
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why does the marines top weapons stop at Grenade Launchers or Heavy Machine Gun? Why not a Rocket Launcher or a Triple Machine Gun? Why do aliens only get 4 abilites? Why not go all the way up to 5 abilites?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because they were over powered, and stumped gameplay... marine strategy = "turtle, get nuke, win..." not a playable strategy..
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dun many of you feel that NS games last too short? That NS lacks versatility? What may happen when NS 2 comes? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...it is out
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flayra doesn't want to talk about NS <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> he gave all the veterans and constelation members free range to talk about it... so he doesn't have to. you might also be interested in the NS radio INTERVIEW... it WILL have flayra talking...
ok, i'm done...
2 - 5min rounds
4 weapons in normal use
repetative and simple as hell
people love it.
probably be a good idea to make the rounds faster.
Take a look at Go - One of the best boardgames up to this date. One single kind of piece, with very simple rules.
And, no, I don't find NS games repitive. The list of strategies and tactics I now know grows for every day.
I disagree, i love games with all sides at full "tech". HA's and Onos bashing each other, JPs and lerks doing there dance of death above the hell of the HA/Ono war. Its great. I hate starts like Shotgun rushing or early OCing of marine base when they are away. Or the dreaded 3min ono. As for the topic starter, i agree with your want of more but you have to think about how old a program they worked with. If they ever make NS for HL2 you may get your wishes, But intill(if) that happens be happy for what you have.
Rushes, offensive towering etc. has always been a part of RTS games, and are a part of NS too. Some people hate it, other love it. The games I've found the most fun are the games where both teams are in full conflict from the start to the very end. Starts out with rushes or scirmishes over the rts, battle back an forth, areas gets OC spammed, gets mowed down by shotties/GL, gets gored by onos, gets shot by HMG/HA, get rushed by a thousand skulks, gets gunned down by upgraded LMGs coming through PGs, etc etc.
The only good way the games can last a long while and still be entertaining: Both teams doing an equally good effort of winning the game by all means necessary (within the game context, of course), including rushing, expanding and teching!
he asked for your opinions not a breakdown of what his is
he asked for your opinions not a breakdown of what his is <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, part of a discussion is the dissection of other people's quotes or opinions and rebuttles to that.
As far as i can see there's only been one troll come through here and that's you.
But yeah, anyway, as has already been mentioned, the engine cannot handle much more. There's only something like 3 more weapon slots possible at the very most, probably less, and also the simple fact that the more there is, the harder it will be to balance, comes into play. Meaning we'll be sitting on our arses for longer waiting for patches and complaining more because they're not balanced.
NS is fine as it is, well, NS 3.0 that is. Except for the random crashing.
NS doesn't need much more. I agree that a more diverse number of strategies and more weapons would be nice, but it's not really possible with the engine and also it plays great as it is now. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And, UNKNOWN16, that is the very reason NS:C was created. It has shorter rounds, faster combat and far more repetative gameplay, but it's fun as hell. It's like an NS CS, except with all the fun that CS should have.
In NS 2.0x's the 'slippery slope' is just a tad too slippery. Once your team messes up one major battle, its all downhill from there. Comebacks now are rarer than female ns players. In NS 1.0x, even if you have the dreaded two hive lockdown done to you, comebacks are still possible (due to marines spreading their resources thin to achieve the lockdown). Everything else, NS2.0x >> NS1.0x.
Exactly.
What I mean is, a game may be "over" 20 minutes into the game, (i.e, aliens have 3 hives, marines have most of the resnodes and two hives locked down, e.t.c and yes, I KNOW comebacks are possible, but they're pretty rare) but that same game would probably take another 20 minutes to finish while the aliens play with the marines and rush one at a time into the marine's spawn which is no doubt turreted to hell at this point...
that way you get the best of all of them
Another thing I would like to see in the future of NS is to change marine med packs, as you know it is very annoying to be a skulk, gorge or lerk and try to kill a marine getting med spammed so what I was thinking is to keep the med spam but instead of having the med pack give the marine 50 HP right away give it to him over time, so maybe it would take 10-20 seconds for the marine to get his 50HP
I would really like to see something added to the aliens because you’ve probably all seen a marine come back when they have one room with one res node and they hold off the aliens for 30 and then HA train out and take the hives, but you never really see a time when aliens are locked down to one hive and then have a come back and win…
wait and see.
At some point, it DID cost 1 res to spawn, for marines at least. I haven't noticed if it's still around or not, either in 2.0 or 3.0, or whether not having res prevented spawning. The devs are definately aware of the idea, however.
As for bigger tech trees or maps, that would just dilute the gameplay over a longer period of time.
What I mean is, a game may be "over" 20 minutes into the game, (i.e, aliens have 3 hives, marines have most of the resnodes and two hives locked down, e.t.c and yes, I KNOW comebacks are possible, but they're pretty rare) but that same game would probably take another 20 minutes to finish while the aliens play with the marines and rush one at a time into the marine's spawn which is no doubt turreted to hell at this point... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'v seen marines hav alot of com-baks
to te topic starter,15 min is just rite for ns,any longer and it just drags on,as for te engine limatations i thnik ns would need it's own engine to express ALL of the teems ideas,try to think of an engine out today that can do al te stuf u want added into ns, add mor tech and bigger maps,mor wps,etc engines al gota limit so they can work on crappy comps,only h;2 wil probebly be te best engine for ns,as valve would wana support ns,rite?