Speaking Of The Tourny And Ati...

shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
edited November 2003 in Tech Support
Hey so u said you would make sure ns runs great on ati eh? well thats great becaues i know others have had problems with their ati card. I run vitrually every other game ie halo and such with very high framerates with very high details... when it comes to ns i get about 12 near the marine structures and about 20 in action. I have all the new drivers, I re-installed ns, hell i even re-formatted my computer. I have a pentium 4 1.5 with 512 pc2100 ddr memory. There is abosluetly no reason whatsoever for these rediculously low fps.. what gives? I have read in the forums people having the same problem but no one can really ansewr it.... I hope the next patch is ati compliant ... ps if anyone can help me that'd be great
I have a 9600 pro
1.5 p4
new drivers
win 98se
re-installed ns
turned off ati_subdiv and ati_npatch
hell i have even turned all the software settings to low a la fps guide...

I have vsync off no aa, no ax, in steam its horrible too. I tried d3d and tis horrible, all the other halflife mods i have no problem with just this one. I changed fps_max etc i have tried all the console commands with no avail
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    bump
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  • havenhaven Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8767Members
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=53036' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=18&t=53036</a>

    Guys stop bringing the ATI HL FPS issues up in different threads - someone sticky a master issue thread please as I've seen it crop up in lots of threads now and hopefully the number of people having these issues will stop it being ignored.

    Thanks
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  • ApathyApathy Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22395Members
    i changed fps_max (to 60) as well as fps_modem (to 80) and my framerate shot up
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
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    Ok u obviiously aren't listening I have tried fps_modem and fps_max AND IT IS <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>NOT</span> HALFLIFE!!! I RUN THE SPECIALISTS, TFC, ETC at 100 fps with 4aa and 16 ax .... IT IS NS
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    edited November 2003
    Read below.
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    edited November 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you have an ati card it can be useful turning of the ati_npatch(set it to 0) and ati_subdivide(set to 0), these control ATi truform. Half-life is an old game and does not use graphics cards to anywhere near their full potential. Particularilly half-life seems to dislike ATi for some reason.

    If you have an ATi card, try to force tripple buffering as this will give you the useful aspects of turning off vertical sync(the framerate is not locked to the refresh rate divided by a positive integer) without the drawback(horrible, ugly, hideous frametears that totally drive me nuts if I have the missfortune of playing something that turns of the vsync without me being able to stop it). If your refresh rate never goes above 72 then it is likely that your monitor is running at a higher refresh rate, set fps_max to match your refresh rate or above(this is the maximum frames per second half-life will attempt to render).


    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    And ati cards are processer dependent. Add the two commands in your config.cfg
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  • TheVeelaTheVeela Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22798Members
    edited November 2003
    I have an AMD 1500+, Radeon 9600 PRO, 512MB DDR RAM

    Now, I get mostly 80 - 99 fps in all areas (except large areas like Viaduct) I can even get ~80 fps when there is a basic firefight. But once I just LOOK at the marines structures (be it armory, infantry portal, TF or anything) my fps drops to around 40-50. Its such a huge drop that it is immideately noticeable.. especially when I'm a skulk and rushing the marines or something.

    I run DoD 1.0 at 90-99fps (even in large firefights) almost everytime and I just don't know why NS uses so much resources.

    I have basically no background apps besides Refresh Lock (which I need to set 85Hz refresh rate) and anti-virus.

    Dynamic lights and hgih quality particles are OFF and I have these settings in my config.cfg

    gl_max_size "128"
    gl_texturemode "GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_NEAREST"
    gl_keeptjunctions "0"
    gl_playermip "1"
    r_dynamic "0"
    r_mirroralpha "0"
    cl_showfps 1
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    Did you add the ones I posted?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    edited November 2003
    YA if u read my post I did add those lines with no avail..... as i've said all other mods i get 100 fps with 4aa, i have no aa and lowest details in ns and when i look at structures its like 20-30 fps...

    FRankly i am getting sick of people replying with questions that have answers that I have already given... read the first post i made geez....
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  • TheVeelaTheVeela Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22798Members
    Adding those ati_xxx has no visible effect.
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    edited November 2003
    Tis, your processer, ATI cards Drivers are dependent on processer power. And also because NS has the best graphics of any HL mod.
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    Its funny how MY PROCESSCOR can run games like americas army and ut2003 with aa at high res no problem..... really funny how it can't run natural selection... light years ahead in graphics... my point is its not the damn card, its an incompatiblity with ns and the card. I have a pentium 4 1.5!!! that is way more than enough to get 30 fps.... even in games like ut2003....... The whole poitn of this thread is to get the attention of the dev to tell them about this problem so they can "work with ati" to make sure "the next versions are optimized for ati" due to the recent tourney...
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  • TheVeelaTheVeela Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22798Members
    edited November 2003
    Ok, so ATI is dependant on processor power. So in games like BF1942 which is resource intensive my 9600 Pro should use up lots of CPU time leaving less for the actual game code processing. Yet I can still manage 50-60 fps, even when flying whcih is way better than 20-40fps in NS when looking at structures.

    I thought the whole point of the high end gfx cards was so that the graphics work could be done "on the card" instead of chewing up CPU resources like before.
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    edited November 2003
    ATI cards are not as good as NVIDIA cards when it comes to opengl, but when it comes to pixel shaders they blow NVIDIA away. And Half-Life has always not run very well on ATI cards.


    I get 40-100 fps with my specs below

    P4 2.4 GHZ 133mhz fsb

    Asus P4S8X Motherboard

    768 MB of 333 mhz DDR RAM.

    ATI Radeon 7500
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  • TheVeelaTheVeela Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22798Members
    News page -
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing's for sure, we're going to make sure NS always runs great on ATI hardware.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Suuuuuure...
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    YES THATS EXACTLY WHY I POSTED THIS WE NEED TO BRING THIS TO THE GAME DEV"S DON"T THEY READ THE FORUMS???
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    edited November 2003
    Well at least they are GOING too. So the new release should help.


    And they know it i think if you are really so uptight go PM flayra. General discussion fourm has this issue... shoo
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  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2003
    Half-life does not use hardware T&L and it is an old game. If I bung in my mx440 it is CPU dependent, I mostly get 100 fps(vsync on of course) but if there is enough structures and marines I get fps drops, underclocking/overclocking makes almost no difference.

    If I run a new game on a gf4 mx440 I am not CPU dependant at all, new games use all the features to offload many CPU hungry functions to your graphics card, so using a mx440 will get you almost completely GPU dependent. If I stick in my Radeon 9800 pro card I get 100 fps most of the time with bigger dips than my mx would when staring at lots of players and structures. This is reasonable, HL was made at a time where Nvidia cards reigned supreme and I do not doubt they found some Nvidia specific instructions to offload some functions on the graphics card.

    There are also known problems with half-life and the newer ATi cards, the cause of them is not known though since only some people have problems and it seems random.

    And some people seem to have problems with NS only or with steam only etc.
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    edited November 2003
    I am still waiting for an answer guys, I run the new games fine, <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I run ALL OTHER </span>Mods for Halflife fine with no problems... IN fact, I run ns fine in the ready room, but when i see marine structures, my fps drops to like nothing... I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE With these problems, STOP IGNORING IT

    just look at these posts

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=53764' target='_blank'>another 9800 post</a>

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=47367&hl=slow' target='_blank'>Another ati post</a>

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=47896&hl=slow' target='_blank'>Another post</a>

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=40369&hl=' target='_blank'>Finally one more</a>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I want to bring this to peoples attention because it is not one person's problem, and It is not something to do with their CPU or NPATCH READ ALL OF THE POSTS</span>
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  • Bo_SelectaBo_Selecta Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9374Members, Constellation
    Same problem here btw, I can run max payne 2 at 1280x1024 with anti-aliasing and still have framerate that is higher..
    I have a sapphire radeon 9500 btw (yes I know how crappy the sapphire is..)

    Hope it's fixed in 3.0 <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    i dont think this prob is ati only, my nivia card has the same prob when around marine strucs as alien. No probs when marine though. But if I am a skulk entering a room of turrets, instant ping skyrocket and fps is normal
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    edited December 2003
    yea, fine.
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  • ThE_HeRoThE_HeRo Join Date: 2003-01-25 Member: 12723Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--spinviper+Nov 29 2003, 01:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ Nov 29 2003, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wanna know why? ATI sucks for hl and since NS's details etc are so high it drops down. BECAUSE IT SUCKS FOR HL. The other mods u get fine cause they dont use much detail, the other intensive stuff because ati hardware works well with those games but not HL. If yo REALLY want this fixed real bad email Flayra@overmind.org and ask. Ask the master of the mod. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    DOD uses quite a bit of detail as well, if I'm not mistaken, and he gets 100 fps in that. Sorry I don't have an answer shadowkiller, but the general stupidity of everyone posting here is rediculous. He's CLEARLY stated that he gets 100 fps in every other HL mod, so its obviously not "OMG DUDE ATI SUX0RS WITH HL!! ROFL!!." I've seen many posts like this before as well, and I was hoping to buy a new radeon, because I've had nothing but **** luck with Nvidia, so this potentially pertains to me as well. I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the changes have made NS more ATI friendly on 3.0.
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  • TKS_DeAtHTKS_DeAtH Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20541Members
    edited November 2003
    Not sure if this is a Video Card Problem. I have had this problem that you are talking about in 1 of my Pc's. Swapped out a new Stick of ram and havent had the problem since. I think there might be something in the NS code that makes it really Memory Intensive when you see marine structures. This might not be your problem, but if worst comes to worst and you dont get it figured out, its worth a try to swap your ram and see if that fixes your problem... Ram is so cheap now a days that if it doesnt fix the problem, you will atleast have a performance boost atleast out of this whole situation. GL
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DOD uses quite a bit of detail as well, if I'm not mistaken, and he gets 100 fps in that.  Sorry I don't have an answer shadowkiller, but the general stupidity of everyone posting here is rediculous.  He's CLEARLY stated that he gets 100 fps in every other HL mod, so its obviously not "OMG DUDE ATI SUX0RS WITH HL!! ROFL!!." I've seen many posts like this before as well, and I was hoping to buy a new radeon, because I've had nothing but **** luck with Nvidia, so this potentially pertains to me as well.  I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the changes have made NS more ATI friendly on 3.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Thank You lol, people need to learn how to read the dang posts lol!!!
    I am e-mailing flayra as we speak, if you are having these problems, post so he can see that its not just me!!
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  • shadowkillershadowkiller Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21637Members
    Hey guys i e-mailed flayra with no avail....
    He has not responded to my e-mail at all....
    INTERESTING. . . <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    He has other things to do man, he has a real life. If you hear the interview with grendel he reads all his e-mails and he might not have the time to reply. And if you wrote it in an idiotic way, dont count on him replying.
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  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    Is the FPS noticeably different when there is a lot of text on the screen (like when you're pointed at a structure) or when you have the minimap open (+showmap)?

    Max
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  • devicenulldevicenull Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--QuoteBegin--Max+Dec 1 2003, 10:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Max @ Dec 1 2003, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is the FPS noticeably different when there is a lot of text on the screen (like when you're pointed at a structure) or when you have the minimap open (+showmap)?

    Max <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It is with a screen full of tooltips (jump in a cc, then out, then hold +use on the cc and watch your fps) I don't have an ATI card, I was planning on upgrading from my "Intel Integrated Graphics" to something, so which would be the most compatible with HL? (I don't need a state of the art one)
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  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members
    ATI RADEON 9600XT
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