Siege Is Underused...
Denial
Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
<div class="IPBDescription">...as a foolproof strat for public play.</div> Well, the subject line says it already. When I see marines lose public games, it usually is because marines...
being pubbers, lack teamplay and skill
-> can't claim and hold territory quickly
-> don't have the res for firepower upgrades and shotguns
-> can't do enough damage to quickly regenerating clusters of 2-3 OCs / 2-3 DCs with a gorge in it
-> can't expand
-> lose the res war
-> lose the game.
With 4 to 5 res towers, marines can win the games rather easily, which is why aliens try to contain them early on. Since they have 25 start res each, it is quite easy for alien players to skulk to a key location near the marine base, go gorge and drop 2 off chambers that will, with the gorge to heal them, stop marines long enough to allow for a couple of additional chambers that will quickly grow pretty much undefeatable for lvl0 LMGers (which means most marines in the beginning of a pub game round). Even if a team of marines can down one such cluster, a single skulk that has accumulated some res will be able to rebuild the outpost in less than a minute whenever the marine team is busy elsewhere. The worst example of this I've seen so far was when marines, having relocated to Engine Room, were successfully blocked by heaps of chambers at the junction with the rotating door. Aliens, pretty much relieved from the task of actually bothering with the marines, were quick to claim a lot of res towers. They destroyed the poor, under-equipped marines within minutes.
The solution may seem stupid (it is, actually), but still may be the best bet for desperate pub comms: siege cannons. It requires some res to build a turret factory in the first defensible location from the base, upgrade it and plant a siege and perhaps a handful of sentries, but this strategy can clear two or even three chokepoints that would otherwise stop your team from building res towers. Suddenly, your area of operations grows much larger and the aliens have much greater difficulty stopping your mindless pub-gamer rambos from slipping through and destroying alien RTs, diverting aliens. Your two or three marines with an actual clue of the game can therefore proceed to claim a few RTs (which you should electrify quickly!) and one or two additional siege outposts in strategic locations. Don't forget: every siege outpost means a rambo that encounters an alien outpost in the general area need only watch it to destroy it, instead of hopelessly charging it and dying. Fades will still pose serious problems, but with a substancial res income, you should find it rather easy to constantly upgrade guns and armor that will help your rambos win their fights. (Don't bother with handing out guns and HA to them, though.) Thus well-equipped, your stupid marines can create a lot of pressure on the alien team and with the territory you gain, you can even afford the heaps of equipment pub marines need to take and hold hive locations.
Yeah, so I'm frustrated with the skills of the average marine player, sue me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
being pubbers, lack teamplay and skill
-> can't claim and hold territory quickly
-> don't have the res for firepower upgrades and shotguns
-> can't do enough damage to quickly regenerating clusters of 2-3 OCs / 2-3 DCs with a gorge in it
-> can't expand
-> lose the res war
-> lose the game.
With 4 to 5 res towers, marines can win the games rather easily, which is why aliens try to contain them early on. Since they have 25 start res each, it is quite easy for alien players to skulk to a key location near the marine base, go gorge and drop 2 off chambers that will, with the gorge to heal them, stop marines long enough to allow for a couple of additional chambers that will quickly grow pretty much undefeatable for lvl0 LMGers (which means most marines in the beginning of a pub game round). Even if a team of marines can down one such cluster, a single skulk that has accumulated some res will be able to rebuild the outpost in less than a minute whenever the marine team is busy elsewhere. The worst example of this I've seen so far was when marines, having relocated to Engine Room, were successfully blocked by heaps of chambers at the junction with the rotating door. Aliens, pretty much relieved from the task of actually bothering with the marines, were quick to claim a lot of res towers. They destroyed the poor, under-equipped marines within minutes.
The solution may seem stupid (it is, actually), but still may be the best bet for desperate pub comms: siege cannons. It requires some res to build a turret factory in the first defensible location from the base, upgrade it and plant a siege and perhaps a handful of sentries, but this strategy can clear two or even three chokepoints that would otherwise stop your team from building res towers. Suddenly, your area of operations grows much larger and the aliens have much greater difficulty stopping your mindless pub-gamer rambos from slipping through and destroying alien RTs, diverting aliens. Your two or three marines with an actual clue of the game can therefore proceed to claim a few RTs (which you should electrify quickly!) and one or two additional siege outposts in strategic locations. Don't forget: every siege outpost means a rambo that encounters an alien outpost in the general area need only watch it to destroy it, instead of hopelessly charging it and dying. Fades will still pose serious problems, but with a substancial res income, you should find it rather easy to constantly upgrade guns and armor that will help your rambos win their fights. (Don't bother with handing out guns and HA to them, though.) Thus well-equipped, your stupid marines can create a lot of pressure on the alien team and with the territory you gain, you can even afford the heaps of equipment pub marines need to take and hold hive locations.
Yeah, so I'm frustrated with the skills of the average marine player, sue me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
long story short:upped tf: 30,turrets: 40, 2 siege: 30 = 100 rez (or 10 sgs)
Also note you will need 2 obs' to effectively scan an area(either that or like 6 sieges)
Try shotties, since they're good against EVERYTHING and don't take 2 minutes to place, build, and lame.
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how on earth does sensory counter siege? if ur scanning with an obs to begin with, sensory's effects are worthless....
as for sieging...its a good time to siege if theres a good post the rines can defend easily out of range from ocs and such....far too often, i see groups of organized rines who get so distracted by 2 oc's that one little skulk goes in and slaughters them...
The only time you want to use sieges, is for strategic purpouses (veil is the best example. You can siege the double node from your spawn, and you can siege each hive). For O chambers, all you need is a rine who knows what a Grenade Launcher is, and how to use it, with preferably two guys on anti sulk duty.
As for taking out hives, sieges are HORRENDIOUSLY underused. I love to play aliens, and watch heavy trains die out, because they rush a hive, and are so buisy firing at it, that they don't notice the onii and sulks biting them. All you need is about four people, a phaze gate, and to have two of them with good aim. You sneak to one side, and set up a phaze with sieges and turret defenses. Then, have most of your rines walk in, and ONLY KILL SULKS. Sieges do tons of damage, and can easally dispense a hive if left alone. This also pulls away the sulks from your tf, so your not on the defensive waiting for pings to the hive.
Even 3 shotgunners cant kill it.Why?While the shotgunners are shooting the WOLs,the skulks are jumping out from behind the corner and biting the close-by shotgunners.
Even if 1 OC is down,thats 10 res vs 30 res.Naturally,the skulks will keep the marine team from reclaiming the dropped shottys.
how on earth does sensory counter siege? if ur scanning with an obs to begin with, sensory's effects are worthless....
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I'm sorry, I don't believe I made it clear. Let me try again:
OMFGZOR TEH SENSIES TEH ARE TEH CLOAXOR AN TEH HIDE UR STRUCTURES FROM TEH LEETZOR SIEGE TORRENTZ, OMG COMM DROP 52 KPLZTHXBAIBAI
For the rest of us, bear in mind that cloaking forces marines to ping, and you can drain their obs of energy while a gorge sens crawls to the marine base, or other strategic location. If rines intend to fully employ sieges, they'll need to obs everywhere, or at least at most strategic locations. Secondly, by dropping chambers, a ping will force the siege to hit the nearest target, usually your sensories. If the marines had LOS, the hive or wol would be doomed, but because they're falling back on the obs you can plant some DCs nearer to the siege and thus draw all its fire.
Sieges are quite handy at taking hives, as are Heavy trains, but each one ON ITS OWN has its own little flaw - in the case of siege bases its keeping the tfac alive and/or keeping LOS/pings going. For HA, its welding each other while laying waste to a DC/OC nest with constantly spawning aliens powered by MC........... not to mention any redeemers.
The best solution is combined arms - pushing close to a hive with HA and then laming up with sieges. Then you can rush the hive to split the aliens up, or simply camp at the sieges with some GLs and shotties.
As for countering early wols....... the only effective counter isn't really a counter - its just hoping that the aliens have one evil wol dropping gorge and his friends won't defend it. As a gorge, I know that if no aliens are at my wol, then its going down. Clever aliens will have dcs near the oc wol or "field of lame" and try to bite down anyone getting too close.
Marine counters consist of drawing the aliens away from one area so that a marine can *run* past the wol and build a minibase or pg way past the lines. A very good strat if the aliens are clustered at the wols and rushing marine base - you get one marine past their defences and plant a PG near the main hive. Then its the Rush.
When commanding, always expect the worst -especially considering the skills of marines... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hint: make two teams, the one who makes more progress gets all the good stuff. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->